Evil, amougst the Good [Archive] - Wizards Community

Evil, amougst the Good [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
siders_me
08-20-07, 04:00 PM In a campaign starting in 2 weeks, DM'd by one of my best friends, i am playing an assassin, however, no one knows that i am an assassin or even evil at that. My dm expressed to me a want to keep my allignment and proffesion secret. Do you know of any good talismens or some "always on" things to help... and along the lines of RP any good ideas for cover stories.. other than the stagnant.. just a loner .... story?

Thx guys
Pyro_Azer
08-20-07, 04:17 PM As long as there is not a paliden in the party a smart lie might conceal your alignment from the rest of the party.
bob_the_great
08-20-07, 04:28 PM I'd recommend against the whole "evil character in a good group thing." The only ways to make it work are to either have a group that doesn't mind being screwed over as long as it's good roleplaying or to play the character so that, even though he's evil, he'd never hurt those in his party.

The former is almost impossible to find (I know I have no patience for "it's what my character would do") and the latter doesn't provide the self-absorbed fun that it seems everyone who plays an evil character wants.

As long as there is not a paliden in the party a smart lie might conceal your alignment from the rest of the party.

Nah, a smart character always divines the alignments of anyone he travels with. Even if my rogue can't do it himself he gets someone who can to do it for him. My fighters... it depends on how smart/paranoid they are.
Grumman
08-20-07, 06:53 PM I'd recommend against the whole "evil character in a good group thing." The only ways to make it work are to either have a group that doesn't mind being screwed over as long as it's good roleplaying or to play the character so that, even though he's evil, he'd never hurt those in his party.

The former is almost impossible to find (I know I have no patience for "it's what my character would do") and the latter doesn't provide the self-absorbed fun that it seems everyone who plays an evil character wants.
I disagree. Just because an individual is "evil" does not mean that they have anything to gain by screwing with their companions, nor does it mean that they will treat everyone in the world with equal contempt. If an assassin can safely perform the occasional hit on the side, why would he automatically try to sabotage his cover by screwing over the party?

As for the OP, I'm sure that the party will become separated at times while in town? While the wizard's shopping for scrolls, you could track down a few jobs. Then at night, slip out of the inn and do what you do best.

I'd recommend that you pick up a Ring of Sustenance so they don't cotton on that you're awake most of the night.
WilwarinAndamar
08-20-07, 07:10 PM A magic item with Undetectable Alignment; something small like an amulet

Other ideas:
Max ranks in Bluff
A sheet of lead :rolleyes:
Carrying around a holy symbol of a good or neutral diety
siders_me
08-20-07, 07:19 PM maybe i should have been more specific... the way i plan on playing my char is NE, Im not going to be this guy that does evil **** just to be doing it... its more like a old school mobster... i have morals and treat people good... nice to kids.. and even do favors for friends.... but if someone hires me to hit someone... the gloves come off and im ruthless... if you know something about my mark then your fair game... otherwise... i'll be the nicest guy you know.... as for my party being ****** off..... we are all great friends.... and im known as the CRAZY EVIL guy... b/c my last big time char was a duskblade/blackguard and was phycotically evil... i mean makes BoVD look like BoED kinda stuff. But also i just came off playing a palidan... so im sure if i put off the good guy vibe they'll buy it... but i don't want them to be able to find out im evil "in game". Also, my DM already assured me that i will be fulfilling many contracts. Is there like an "amulet of hide alignment" or something?

By the way.. nice OoTS reference
Grumman
08-20-07, 07:37 PM Is there like an "amulet of hide alignment" or something?
Undetectable Alignment is a Lvl 1 bard spell, and Lvl 2 assassin, cleric or paladin spell, which lasts 24 hours. So if you're willing to take 2 levels of bard, you could cast it yourself each day.
Baernwulf_of_Nor
08-20-07, 07:40 PM Alignment is tough because the PHB and all other examples I have seen give really bad "set-in-stone" examples of alignment. The only reason assassins need to be evil is because they are required to kill strangers without question. This does not mean they would kill their friends, or rob a blind child. So sure, they are a little evil by not even caring that they are ending someone life for money, but other than that they could be a very charming person who donates their earnings to the orphanage.

By the way, I can almost guarantee that the other players at the table know your secret.

BoN
dknight100
08-20-07, 07:44 PM Undetectable Alignment is a Lvl 1 bard spell, and Lvl 2 assassin, cleric or paladin spell, which lasts 24 hours. So if you're willing to take 2 levels of bard, you could cast it yourself each day.

They call me Singin' Tommy, the Musical Mobster.
siders_me
08-20-07, 07:46 PM well, obviously they will find out when my dm gives me a side quest and i have to rp out an assassination right infront of them ... but im more interested in keeping thier characters from finding out and no... no bard.... but i only have 2 lv to go before i can cast it b/c assassin ... but my group kinda metagames ..... alot.... so they would just wait to cast detect evil for when my spell wore off.... thats why i need a "always on" alternative
Grumman
08-20-07, 07:54 PM ... but my group kinda metagames ..... alot.... so they would just wait to cast detect evil for when my spell wore off.... thats why i need a "always on" alternative
You could cast it twice per day then, when nobody is looking. Let the metagamers stew about that.

Even if you didn't, are they really such [censored] that they don't think they'd have to have an in-game justification to keep on hitting a guy with Detect Evil, even after he passed?
Zebppir
08-20-07, 08:18 PM You could cast it twice per day then, when nobody is looking. Let the metagamers stew about that.

Even if you didn't, are they really such [censored] that they don't think they'd have to have an in-game justification to keep on hitting a guy with Detect Evil, even after he passed?

my party did just that for a long while. it was a deception and betrayal campagn stupid paladin the only time I killed a person was the annoying paladin by pretending I had run out of healing potins by the way I was a NE rogue at the time:evillaugh
ninja1
08-20-07, 08:26 PM What classes are in your character build?

What level are you?

How much money do you have to spend?

The two items that always come to my mind when playing evil characters are a Ring of Mindshielding and an Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location.

You can find them in the Dungeon Master's Guide and also in the 3.5 System Reference Document online.
MrCustomer
08-20-07, 11:06 PM I played an assasin in a good group and kept my identity secret until I turned invisible and then did a death attack on the enemy leader, after words me and the ranger and cleric had some words, lol

I worked with it by being Lawful Evil, I decided that the law I obeyed was an Assassin Code. Yes I would murder in cold blood, but ONLY if I was contracted to do so, I did not kill unnessesary people around the target, I did not kill innocents or Children. I only killed if I had proper cause. etc. Basically I was evil, but my code prevented my from doing anything that the party would object to (unless of course I was contracted)
deathbane
08-20-07, 11:10 PM Is there like an "amulet of hide alignment" or something?

By the way.. nice OoTS reference

I don't think so but if the DM know how to price items he could come up with a price for you.
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-20-07, 11:18 PM Tell them an evil necromancer you heroically slew cursed you with his dying breath, that you would forevermore be shunned by those that would otherwise be your staunchest allies. To your dismay, you've learned over time that this means you give off a false positive to any magic that interacts in specific ways with evil. Of course by your actions, they can see that the detection spells are wrong, and they'd be fools to cut down a fellow champion of the greater good. :angelhide
Majick
08-21-07, 03:39 AM I once played a Lawful Evil Fighter/Rogue (then assassin)

He was the NICEST guy you would ever meet. Giving to the poor. Helping allies in need. Lending time and money to others. Never killed kids. Never killed women. But if there was a man or monster he was contracted to kill, then he would kill them, without mercy. If the contract ordered for torture, so be it. If the contract ordered for brutal pain and misery, so be it.

Case in point. Evil people can have friends. They can have goals and dreams. They can be nice folk in general but when it comes down to it, you are still EVIL
Lionhearted
08-21-07, 10:00 AM eh excuse me... since when does detect evil reveal MORAL alignment?
there is no spell that can point you out as evil (except those extremely nasty psionic powers that digs through your head, and ofc mindrape) unless you're a demon, devil, evil cleric or blackguard (or anything else that gain aura of evil)
Shaggy_Shaggs
08-21-07, 10:18 AM eh excuse me... since when does detect evil reveal MORAL alignment?
there is no spell that can point you out as evil (except those extremely nasty psionic powers that digs through your head, and ofc mindrape) unless you're a demon, devil, evil cleric or blackguard (or anything else that gain aura of evil)

Re-read the spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm) Being an evil creature at all gets you at least a faint aura of evil.
RodinGates
08-21-07, 10:23 AM One thing to cinsider is just how much the group IC knows about your profession. Do they know you're the member of a guild of assassins or do they just think you're a member of a rogue's guild? Depending on how they feel about the subject you could just let them think that you're part of a CG guild that robs from the rich and gives to the poor, or even a guild of spies that works for the nobility. It could give you an excuse for disappearing in the middle of the night. "Sorry, but my master has summoned me for an urgent mission." Obviously your guild would forbid you blabbing to people that you're a member but you could just lie and say you're part of a guild that doesn't even exist, how is anyone else gonna know?

For example, I once played a NE Rogue/ Sorceror whose constant cover story was "I'm an archaeologist on a special mission from my king to investigate the ancient ruins and relics of X." It pretty much allowed me to be as greedy and covetous of wealth as I wanted and I could justify it with "It's for my king and country, damn it!"

Of course you'll need to prepare for when your secret comes out. Hopefully by then you'll be so invested in the party's interests that they wouldn't dream of turning you over or ratting you out. Of course it helps if you don't keep LG companions... Remember, CG and CN are your friends.
NoirLotus
08-21-07, 10:36 AM It seems that nobody gave you the item that you need : Ring of Mind Shielding => protects you against alignment detection, magical detection of lies and attempts to read your thoughts.
Infernostrider
08-21-07, 12:27 PM A magic item with Undetectable Alignment; something small like an amulet

Other ideas:
Max ranks in Bluff
A sheet of lead :rolleyes:
Carrying around a holy symbol of a good or neutral diety

the latter in this is only advised with either DMs who care little for using deities in their campaigns, or if the character itself is an atheist
ninja1
08-21-07, 03:53 PM It seems that nobody gave you the item that you need : Ring of Mind Shielding => protects you against alignment detection, magical detection of lies and attempts to read your thoughts. It also seems that my post ~8 or so above yours must have been shielded from your view...

:D
Lionhearted
08-22-07, 08:02 AM Re-read the spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm) Being an evil creature at all gets you at least a faint aura of evil.

Goddammit, i hate that you can't rely on what's written in the book you paid for :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
siders_me 08-20-07, 04:00 PM	In a campaign starting in 2 weeks, DM'd by one of my best friends, i am playing an assassin, however, no one knows that i am an assassin or even evil at that. My dm expressed to me a want to keep my allignment and proffesion secret. Do you know of any good talismens or some "always on" things to help... and along the lines of RP any good ideas for cover stories.. other than the stagnant.. just a loner .... story? Thx guys
Pyro_Azer 08-20-07, 04:17 PM	As long as there is not a paliden in the party a smart lie might conceal your alignment from the rest of the party.
bob_the_great 08-20-07, 04:28 PM	I'd recommend against the whole "evil character in a good group thing." The only ways to make it work are to either have a group that doesn't mind being screwed over as long as it's good roleplaying or to play the character so that, even though he's evil, he'd never hurt those in his party. The former is almost impossible to find (I know I have no patience for "it's what my character would do") and the latter doesn't provide the self-absorbed fun that it seems everyone who plays an evil character wants. As long as there is not a paliden in the party a smart lie might conceal your alignment from the rest of the party. Nah, a smart character always divines the alignments of anyone he travels with. Even if my rogue can't do it himself he gets someone who can to do it for him. My fighters... it depends on how smart/paranoid they are.
Grumman 08-20-07, 06:53 PM	I'd recommend against the whole "evil character in a good group thing." The only ways to make it work are to either have a group that doesn't mind being screwed over as long as it's good roleplaying or to play the character so that, even though he's evil, he'd never hurt those in his party. The former is almost impossible to find (I know I have no patience for "it's what my character would do") and the latter doesn't provide the self-absorbed fun that it seems everyone who plays an evil character wants. I disagree. Just because an individual is "evil" does not mean that they have anything to gain by screwing with their companions, nor does it mean that they will treat everyone in the world with equal contempt. If an assassin can safely perform the occasional hit on the side, why would he automatically try to sabotage his cover by screwing over the party? As for the OP, I'm sure that the party will become separated at times while in town? While the wizard's shopping for scrolls, you could track down a few jobs. Then at night, slip out of the inn and do what you do best. I'd recommend that you pick up a Ring of Sustenance so they don't cotton on that you're awake most of the night.
WilwarinAndamar 08-20-07, 07:10 PM	A magic item with Undetectable Alignment; something small like an amulet Other ideas: Max ranks in Bluff A sheet of lead :rolleyes: Carrying around a holy symbol of a good or neutral diety
siders_me 08-20-07, 07:19 PM	maybe i should have been more specific... the way i plan on playing my char is NE, Im not going to be this guy that does evil ** just to be doing it... its more like a old school mobster... i have morals and treat people good... nice to kids.. and even do favors for friends.... but if someone hires me to hit someone... the gloves come off and im ruthless... if you know something about my mark then your fair game... otherwise... i'll be the nicest guy you know.... as for my party being **** off..... we are all great friends.... and im known as the CRAZY EVIL guy... b/c my last big time char was a duskblade/blackguard and was phycotically evil... i mean makes BoVD look like BoED kinda stuff. But also i just came off playing a palidan... so im sure if i put off the good guy vibe they'll buy it... but i don't want them to be able to find out im evil "in game". Also, my DM already assured me that i will be fulfilling many contracts. Is there like an "amulet of hide alignment" or something? By the way.. nice OoTS reference
Grumman 08-20-07, 07:37 PM	Is there like an "amulet of hide alignment" or something? Undetectable Alignment is a Lvl 1 bard spell, and Lvl 2 assassin, cleric or paladin spell, which lasts 24 hours. So if you're willing to take 2 levels of bard, you could cast it yourself each day.
Baernwulf_of_Nor 08-20-07, 07:40 PM	Alignment is tough because the PHB and all other examples I have seen give really bad "set-in-stone" examples of alignment. The only reason assassins need to be evil is because they are required to kill strangers without question. This does not mean they would kill their friends, or rob a blind child. So sure, they are a little evil by not even caring that they are ending someone life for money, but other than that they could be a very charming person who donates their earnings to the orphanage. By the way, I can almost guarantee that the other players at the table know your secret. BoN
dknight100 08-20-07, 07:44 PM	Undetectable Alignment is a Lvl 1 bard spell, and Lvl 2 assassin, cleric or paladin spell, which lasts 24 hours. So if you're willing to take 2 levels of bard, you could cast it yourself each day. They call me Singin' Tommy, the Musical Mobster.
siders_me 08-20-07, 07:46 PM	well, obviously they will find out when my dm gives me a side quest and i have to rp out an assassination right infront of them ... but im more interested in keeping thier characters from finding out and no... no bard.... but i only have 2 lv to go before i can cast it b/c assassin ... but my group kinda metagames ..... alot.... so they would just wait to cast detect evil for when my spell wore off.... thats why i need a "always on" alternative
Grumman 08-20-07, 07:54 PM	... but my group kinda metagames ..... alot.... so they would just wait to cast detect evil for when my spell wore off.... thats why i need a "always on" alternative You could cast it twice per day then, when nobody is looking. Let the metagamers stew about that. Even if you didn't, are they really such [censored] that they don't think they'd have to have an in-game justification to keep on hitting a guy with Detect Evil, even after he passed?
Zebppir 08-20-07, 08:18 PM	You could cast it twice per day then, when nobody is looking. Let the metagamers stew about that. Even if you didn't, are they really such [censored] that they don't think they'd have to have an in-game justification to keep on hitting a guy with Detect Evil, even after he passed? my party did just that for a long while. it was a deception and betrayal campagn stupid paladin the only time I killed a person was the annoying paladin by pretending I had run out of healing potins by the way I was a NE rogue at the time:evillaugh
ninja1 08-20-07, 08:26 PM	What classes are in your character build? What level are you? How much money do you have to spend? The two items that always come to my mind when playing evil characters are a Ring of Mindshielding and an Amulet of Proof against Detection and Location. You can find them in the Dungeon Master's Guide and also in the 3.5 System Reference Document online.
MrCustomer 08-20-07, 11:06 PM	I played an assasin in a good group and kept my identity secret until I turned invisible and then did a death attack on the enemy leader, after words me and the ranger and cleric had some words, lol I worked with it by being Lawful Evil, I decided that the law I obeyed was an Assassin Code. Yes I would murder in cold blood, but ONLY if I was contracted to do so, I did not kill unnessesary people around the target, I did not kill innocents or Children. I only killed if I had proper cause. etc. Basically I was evil, but my code prevented my from doing anything that the party would object to (unless of course I was contracted)
deathbane 08-20-07, 11:10 PM	Is there like an "amulet of hide alignment" or something? By the way.. nice OoTS reference I don't think so but if the DM know how to price items he could come up with a price for you.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-20-07, 11:18 PM	Tell them an evil necromancer you heroically slew cursed you with his dying breath, that you would forevermore be shunned by those that would otherwise be your staunchest allies. To your dismay, you've learned over time that this means you give off a false positive to any magic that interacts in specific ways with evil. Of course by your actions, they can see that the detection spells are wrong, and they'd be fools to cut down a fellow champion of the greater good. :angelhide
Majick 08-21-07, 03:39 AM	I once played a Lawful Evil Fighter/Rogue (then assassin) He was the NICEST guy you would ever meet. Giving to the poor. Helping allies in need. Lending time and money to others. Never killed kids. Never killed women. But if there was a man or monster he was contracted to kill, then he would kill them, without mercy. If the contract ordered for torture, so be it. If the contract ordered for brutal pain and misery, so be it. Case in point. Evil people can have friends. They can have goals and dreams. They can be nice folk in general but when it comes down to it, you are still EVIL
Lionhearted 08-21-07, 10:00 AM	eh excuse me... since when does detect evil reveal MORAL alignment? there is no spell that can point you out as evil (except those extremely nasty psionic powers that digs through your head, and ofc mindrape) unless you're a demon, devil, evil cleric or blackguard (or anything else that gain aura of evil)
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-21-07, 10:18 AM	eh excuse me... since when does detect evil reveal MORAL alignment? there is no spell that can point you out as evil (except those extremely nasty psionic powers that digs through your head, and ofc mindrape) unless you're a demon, devil, evil cleric or blackguard (or anything else that gain aura of evil) Re-read the spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm) Being an evil creature at all gets you at least a faint aura of evil.
RodinGates 08-21-07, 10:23 AM	One thing to cinsider is just how much the group IC knows about your profession. Do they know you're the member of a guild of assassins or do they just think you're a member of a rogue's guild? Depending on how they feel about the subject you could just let them think that you're part of a CG guild that robs from the rich and gives to the poor, or even a guild of spies that works for the nobility. It could give you an excuse for disappearing in the middle of the night. "Sorry, but my master has summoned me for an urgent mission." Obviously your guild would forbid you blabbing to people that you're a member but you could just lie and say you're part of a guild that doesn't even exist, how is anyone else gonna know? For example, I once played a NE Rogue/ Sorceror whose constant cover story was "I'm an archaeologist on a special mission from my king to investigate the ancient ruins and relics of X." It pretty much allowed me to be as greedy and covetous of wealth as I wanted and I could justify it with "It's for my king and country, damn it!" Of course you'll need to prepare for when your secret comes out. Hopefully by then you'll be so invested in the party's interests that they wouldn't dream of turning you over or ratting you out. Of course it helps if you don't keep LG companions... Remember, CG and CN are your friends.
NoirLotus 08-21-07, 10:36 AM	It seems that nobody gave you the item that you need : Ring of Mind Shielding => protects you against alignment detection, magical detection of lies and attempts to read your thoughts.
Infernostrider 08-21-07, 12:27 PM	A magic item with Undetectable Alignment; something small like an amulet Other ideas: Max ranks in Bluff A sheet of lead :rolleyes: Carrying around a holy symbol of a good or neutral diety the latter in this is only advised with either DMs who care little for using deities in their campaigns, or if the character itself is an atheist
ninja1 08-21-07, 03:53 PM	It seems that nobody gave you the item that you need : Ring of Mind Shielding => protects you against alignment detection, magical detection of lies and attempts to read your thoughts. It also seems that my post ~8 or so above yours must have been shielded from your view... :D
Lionhearted 08-22-07, 08:02 AM	Re-read the spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectEvil.htm) Being an evil creature at all gets you at least a faint aura of evil. Goddammit, i hate that you can't rely on what's written in the book you paid for :P