Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dpadjunkie 01-05-05, 10:28 PM	i've logged about 6th deaths in a game i'm involved in and I've noticed the DM takes particular glee in killing my characters. No matter what class I play he opts to make the NPC opposers go for me first and eliminate me. I'm trying to find some advice on making the most survivable character ever. I don't care if they're actually useful, i just want a character that's built to survive. It's immensely annoying to have a character for 3 sessions, just get into the good roleplay and have to play another character. Please help me out.
krichaiushii 01-05-05, 10:57 PM	Aside from talking to the DM about what looks like metagame targetting, go for someone with high constitution, high hit dice, and spend your feats on the saving throw boosts. If he keeps it up, and it is the oppositive of favoritism, find another group to play with. Or start a new group, minus this DM.
Jelstan 01-05-05, 11:31 PM	I agree. Talk with your dm and find out what's the deal. Try to be as neutral as you can when you talk to him. If it turns out he's just being a low-life, find another group and roleplay with them.
Asciiman 01-06-05, 12:21 AM	Aside from talking to the DM about what looks like metagame targetting, go for someone with high constitution, high hit dice, and spend your feats on the saving throw boosts. No, no, no, no ,no. This is the ability to take punishment. He wanted the ability to survive. If you create a character that has high CON, hit dice, and saving throws, you are undoubtedly creating a tank. Last I checked, when you create a character who is built to take punishment, you create a character who flirts very close to death. You die from taking damage, you live from avoiding it altogether. Okay dpadjunkie, here is what you do. First off create a character, and try to get your DEX and INT the highest. Take rogue first. You max your tumble every chance you get, it will be your lifeblood. After your first level take wizard, the purpose of this is to get up to the prestige class Arcane Trickster. Currently I have one of these in my group, and in over 25 sessions the guy has only died once, and this is an epic campaign. You focus on the Arcane Trickster and then the wizard levels. The spells you use are to avoid combat, not to do damage. Things like Displacement, Fly, Blur, Mirror Image, Protection From Arrows are all spells you use and love. And for the love of god, make sure you have at LEAST one quickened Expeditious Retreat at all times, and when you get higher, make sure you have a quickened Haste as well. When playing your character, and this is far and away the most important part, you only use range combat, use a bow and focus on sneak attacks that are offered when you use a bow in combat. This way you are untouchable and get to help out a ton in combat. But no matter what, you drop anything you are doing if ANY enemy gets within reach of you. Do not allow the DM to surprise you with that low level orc who just has a halbred, but infact will have a keen PC slaying halbred of holding. No matter what you run and run quickly, using your spells you should have no proble avoiding melee combat, as long as you only take spells that help you be avoided, so no Fireballs, Lightning Bolts or Horrid Wiltings. As for feats, go with things like dodge, mobility, shot on the run, point blank shot, rapid shot and possibly expertise if you need another one, although don't be afraid to take feats to help out your casting, things like metamagic feats to double the length that your buffs last. This combination works like "magic" for the player in my group, if I can get to him, there is a good chance I can kill him but this is in the epic levels. Below level 20 I'd have to get to him about 4 or 5 times in combat to even have a chance of doing anything serious. The player has been playing RPG's for the last 30 years however. He knows his stuff and is a very accomplished player and only surpassed by one other in my group for building powerful characters. The other guy is damn near unbeatable, and this is comming from the DM. Remember though, no matter what, you run. Your skin first, THEN you help.
The Unspeakable Thing 01-06-05, 07:37 AM	How about a Monk? It isnt a Tank, it already gets all the Saves as Good, its D8 Hp is alright, and has some great defensive abilities, granted you cannot use armour, but with a good Dex and Wis (Wis modifier to AC) it helps make up for it. Dont they also get lots of defensive style abilities like Evasion, and the increased movement rate will allow you to avoid danger by running away. Also I think they can heal their own wounds after a few levels, not sure its been a while, just give it a look. Alternatively you could go for a Ranger, reasonable defensive abilities, and could go for the ranked combat style to avoid those critters that the DM uses to kill you, plus with good ranks in Hide/Move SIlent and Spot/Listen, you could keep out of sight and avoid being flat footed? Hope it all works out for you.
jnrhayz 01-06-05, 09:52 AM	I don't want to start an argument here, but if you want to survive, do not try for the Arcane Trickster prestige class. The reason I say this is simple. At low levels you stink. You have low hit points, basically 5 levels of wizard (4hd) and 3 levels of Rogue (6hd). Your fortitude save is horrible. You will be spending all of your spells as defensive on yourself. On a side note, if your character starts at 10th level or higher Arcane Trickster is good, it is just those low levels that get you. Also, you are going to want to go rogue 4/wizard 6 to pick up uncanny dodge and the practiced spellcaster feat. This maximizes your spellcasting abilities. Also, That feat that changes touch spells to within 30ft range are good. Shocking grasp with sneak attack damage is really nice, especially when you are 30ft away. To make a character that survives from any level, I would think Ranger or Druid. Druid has healing spells, decent saves, and shapechanging is cool when you get there. Ranger is a very good core class and at higher levels has healing spells. either way, whatever class you choose, you need high dex and high con. Which makes me think an archery based ranger would be best. Good Luck.
Phrennzy 01-06-05, 10:03 AM	Wouldn't a cleric be a good choice? Self-healing, good hit dice...just put your points in CON and DEX and WIS and get a crossbow and hang in the back. Check out the Character Optimization board. They live for challenges like this.
Tembomber 01-06-05, 12:50 PM	I'd personally create something on the lines of a sword 'n board paldin with stats in following order: Cha, Con, Wis, Str and dump the rest. Might want to think about switching Wis and Str. Get a big armor, get an animated shield and wield a Greatsword. You'll have relatively high hp's, very good saves, a respectable AC, and great offensive abilities. Not to mention a little bit of healing and other divine magics.
Maerdash 01-06-05, 01:26 PM	ok you can make a monk 2nd level has fairly good hp and great saves now for your third level go paladin take the next few levels as pal (3-4 levels) this gets you good hp and and excellent bonus on saves (you want a fairly good score in cha for this but not your best) after paladin take a couple levels ranger to get endurance next go fighter and get the die hard feat stick with fighter and boost your saves with feats while using your bonus feats on ranged attack feats and mobility feats you may want full plate as you give up very little of your monk and ranger abilities and things like shot on the run are still surprisingly effective in heavy armor, you can probably stick with a breast plate though its a nice bit of armor. hope this helps a little
Aluroon 01-06-05, 01:33 PM	Monk2/Paladin of Fredom3/Barbarian2/Pios Templar1/Frenzied Berserker10 Laugh when the throws a spell, Laugh when he hits you, just laugh and laugh. Saves will be insain, you dont take secondary spell effects when you make a save (evasion and Metlee), you have tons of hp, you cant die when your frenzied, literally, you cannot die, and you are a good fighter (Base Attack Bonus +17) Aluroon
cryptictravler 01-06-05, 01:52 PM	It really depends on level. At low level- Paladin. You have great saves, good Hps and good AC. You also ride a horse and charge a lot. Which A nets damage and B you do so without being close. For an even better gig: small mounted paladin. Gnome is good, +1 ac is nice as is the con bonus. Plus you can ride that riding dog in dungeons. Mid-level- Druid: You have great buffs. Wilding armor and shield in a small, fast form with natural spell is money. Small birds have decent AC add some armor and there ya go. If you use the nature's warrior class you get fast healing to allow you to have full hps after every fight. Druid buffs are great, rivaling the cleric. Upside is you have better attack spells and battle control spells. Plus you can heal youself. Plus your animal companion can be ditched to save yourself. High level- Fighter/Wizard or paladin Sorcerer: A few fighting class levels give you some fort save and Hps to play with. The caster levels make you fast and hardy. Options to consider: Forcecage is your friend cast it on yourself and others. The barred cage gets you out of mellee range of most people while you can cast spells out. Lastly: buy or make three items that are usually outside of the normal life saving gear. They are not to be used regularly and are only for DM screwage at the optimal time. Two Immovable rods: They can support a whole lot of weight really well and save the life of a character stuck in some of the stupid insta death traps. Then pick up a rod of Rulership. You have 500 minutes to use a rod which allows you to control 300 HD of 12 int or less creatures with no save. When you are being beaten to death by a large stupid creature, bring out the big guns. It also is a sweet deal again mounts. Horse have like 4 HD and no intelligence mounted combatants simply stand around when you blast their stupid mount. Last point: beware where you sleep. Most DMs can perfectly legally and sometimes fairly wax at least one person in the party while the party sleeps. Combat that at all costs.
RabbitoutofaHat 01-06-05, 10:51 PM	Expanded Psionics Handbook, race elan, class psion. If you can get access to that you should be very hard to kill provided you can keep your powerpoints up enough.
PhaedrusXY 01-06-05, 11:37 PM	I can't believe noone has suggested that you post a thread on the Character Optimization board about this. This really seems like it would better fit there. I'd suggest playing a character that is sneaky and can run away well. A monk could fit the bill quite well. ;) If you have access to Oriental Adventures, a monk/NinjaSpy can be really hard to kill, extremely sneaky, and very fun to play. I'd suggest monk12/NinjaSpy8.
Phrennzy 01-06-05, 11:58 PM	I can't believe noone has suggested that you post a thread on the Character Optimization board about this. This really seems like it would better fit there. I'd suggest playing a character that is sneaky and can run away well. A monk could fit the bill quite well. ;) If you have access to Oriental Adventures, a monk/NinjaSpy can be really hard to kill, extremely sneaky, and very fun to play. I'd suggest monk12/NinjaSpy8. I did, about 4 posts before: Check out the Character Optimization board. They live for challenges like this.
Antigone 01-07-05, 01:22 AM	Maybe the problem is neither your DM picking on you nor your character's build, but a bad mesh of your tactics and your DM's? By this I mean, maybe you have a habit of always doing exactly those things that your DM is really good at countering, but the other players don't. Do you draw lots of attacks of opportunity, for example? If so, either learn to avoid them or take Mobility. Are you always failing Reflex saves? Take Lightning Reflexes and get a cloak of resistance. Or maybe it's as simple as you always running into the room first thing, rather than standing back and letting the monsters come to you. Just some thoughts. I speak from the standpoint of a DM who killed the same character about 10 times in one campaign -- way more than any of the other characters. It wasn't that I didn't like the guy, but his character had an 8 Con (on purpose!) and he had about one-third the hit points of everyone else in the group (he rolled badly, too). It was hard not to kill him.
Bringslite 01-07-05, 01:28 AM	There is no class/race/template mega min/max that can save you if the DM is out to get you. The best solution to your problem, dpadjunkie, is to have an out of game talk with your DM. Tell him that you have concerns since your character has died 6 times now. Ask him for his advice on a character that will survive better. To be fair, we are only getting half of the story here. Your DM could be a sad, immature example of the breed. There could be something he detests about your play style or class choices. Whatever the case, talking will help you to find out and either make the corrections neccesary or move on to a better DM. Believe me, an uber PC build will not save you if the DM wants you toasted. Ask his advice on how to survive and you will flatter him and make him think about why you die so much.
Solidcobra 01-07-05, 01:38 AM	Well, as said, if the DM wants you gone, your chances are 0 to begin with. Think. What can you have done to make him target you? I've been the fave target of many a DM just for making a character that's stronger than the rest/using human as a race all the time/always playing a divine caster or a barbarian/not liking psionics/not following his exact plot plans and instead *GASP* using my own ideas, etc. You could do this instead... Make a commoner. Name him Bob redshirt. Say that you'll die anyway since they ALWAYS target you, so why fight it? When the DM kills bob, make Joe Redshirt, his brother. Then Jane redshirt to mix it up a bit. He'll get the point.
Bringslite 01-07-05, 02:19 AM	Whatever happened to old fashioned communication? So many people post their woes on this board, yet have not even bothered to talk with the player or DM causing the grief. They come hear looking for a magic cure for a personal problem between themselves and another. There is no MAGIC ANSWER!!! We usually only hear one side of any story so our advice is tainted at best. Generally the best advice we can give is to talk with these people. If they are just jerks we can learn this and move on to a better group. If it is partly our fault we can learn from this, also, and improve whatever needs improving. You can take the "make a Bobby Redshirt approach" if you like but your DM has to be smart enough to GET IT. Besides, I only have once a week to play (usually less). That approach seems like a waste of my time whereas communication can clear up most problems between sessions.
Dag 01-07-05, 02:41 AM	I kissed the DMs girlfriend once and he killed my character the next session...Maybe therein lies your problem. Does your DM have an attractive girlfriend? If so do you guys need another player?
Asciiman 01-07-05, 03:31 AM	I kissed the DMs girlfriend once and he killed my character the next session...Maybe therein lies your problem. Does your DM have an attractive girlfriend? If so do you guys need another player? LOL! Beautiful!
Santrilla 01-07-05, 10:15 AM	Beautiful! She'd have to be, if it's worth getting in your DM's bad books. :rimshot:
der_gogo 01-07-05, 12:29 PM	Maybe he just kills you because you powergame or min/max (in his eyes)? Are your characters usually stronger than the others in the group? Or maybe are you playing a cleric or wizard/sorcerer, who is usually targetted first by a clever opponent?
Shard of Suzail 01-07-05, 01:20 PM	There is one other alternative, that is, that the other members of the group are staying alive through selfish means. Bascially, the better they are at staying alive, the more likely this fellow is to die. Look at it this way. My party was in the desert, two sessions ago. We were ambushed by fire resistant lizard things and the party got off of their camels and prepared for battle. My cleric starts readying her defensive spells and everyone gets about a round of action as the lizards come charging across the dunes toward us. The gm split the lizards into three groups of three, with each group attacking a cluster of players. It was a balanced attack. However...The wizard next to me casts invisibility and the monk on my other side ran off to give a character across the map flanking. So there i was, alone, with three big lizard monsters, who couldnt see the wizard and had noone else to hit. I hadn't gotten all my spells up and my AC was low. They smacked me around and nearly killed me. I even got flanked. Needless to say i was furious. The wizard did, at least, apologise. The sight of pretty much every lizard on one half of the map chargin past him and taking a chunk out of me was quite something. Especially as I play a caster cleric and probably have the same hit points and a lower AC than he does. *** Now, if this player is in a party where the players routinely make themselves unavailable as targets or are otherwise crafty and unkillable, then it stands to reason that the original poster is going to wind up a dead man, regardless of what the gm does. Sometimes, like it or not, it is survival of the cleverest and most selfish. I bet none of them take risks to save him or play characters that have anything but their own survival at heart. The gm may well not be to blame.