evil party member problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

evil party member problem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Pashia
10-17-04, 05:26 AM Okay, so the story starts off like this. Someone in our group starts an neutral evil character when we start our Ravenloft campaign. After a few incidents and powers checks (they burned down a building with a friend of me and this ranger inside) he ends up evil and trying to kill off our original party. (one member is still living) He finally kills the last party member he had as a target. During the combat I point out that after he's seen he can't hide again. I'm told in some sort of half ass manner "He has some dark power that helps him do it, it seemed like ******** to me." Anyway, the lame thing is, after a while his character was constantly seperated, so he *****ed about it to the GM.

Basically the GM allowed him to create a whole different character to play. So essentially, because one player was *****ing because he missed out on time.. he gets a new character that's part of the group which contains people he wants to kill. Note, Also: when he had to do stuff with said evil character, it took time away from the *entire group* not just one person like before. Basically the character is a one shot kill type rogue. Tons of hide/move silently, tons of dex, and a few dark powers from the path of corruption.

Anyway, what I'm looking for basically, is recommendations on how to kill said evil character, or hamper him horribly. Note: I'm a 5th level cleric with access to raise a few undead I could have working for me, I have some gold I could hire trackers, etc. Just looking for a good way to take care of this.
TheRedRobedWizard
10-17-04, 10:42 AM Q1) What is your character's alignment?
Q2) What is the chronological age of the DM?
Q3) Why is this player so in to playing evil so much?
Q4) How many PCs are there?

With the above information, I can give you a better opinion than my first... which was "don't adventure with that PC. tell the player to play a damned team player."

My second feeling on this was "he has to sleep some time."

-TRRW
Shard of Suzail
10-17-04, 11:50 AM It was quite hard to read your post, i`m not sure i entirely understood it. Nonetheless i get the general idea.

First off, i see "Neutral Evil" and i see "Ravenloft. Well, evil characters in Ravenloft are simply not wise to have ina a group. A Ravenloft party must be pure of heart otherwise they die or become npc's or simply miss the point of the scenario. Neutral evil is even worse, as its as close to being mad as you are going to get and thus its totally opposed to party unity.

Gm shouldnt be allowing that kind of play in the Ravenloft setting.

I then kind of lose the plot with your post. Seems he comes back as a new character but still wants to kill the party? It is possible to rehide after being seen, by the way, though you would need to be in cluttered terrain or move behind something. You cant do it in plain sight unless your class or abilities say otherwise.

You mention summoning undead. Now, my neutral character does that all the time, but i wouldnt be able to think about it in Ravenloft. If your Cleric is thinking like that, then its all gone wrong.

My suggestion is - Dont fight this other character, let him win. Then, once that is done, play a proper game without all this stupidity. If your GM doesnt sort it out, then sort him out instead.

The longer you keep up the fight, the more enjoyment this foolish player gets, so dont give him that satisfaction, just say "you win" and enjoy the fact that his character is instantly retired.
Pashia
10-17-04, 12:28 PM Basically he allowed him to play 2 seperate characters, his new one, which is not evil, while still controlling the evil one. He did it because his evil character wasn't getting enough "game time." I think it's lame that because one character isn't getting enough DM attention, that the entire group suffers because they instead are allowed to play a new character which is part of the main group, and an offshot which is against the group, it's ********.

Q1) What is your character's alignment?

true neutral, he has a very strong justified hatred for this evil character though

Q2) What is the chronological age of the DM?

the DM is 18

Q3) Why is this player so in to playing evil so much?

I could tell at character creation that this character would end up on the path of corruption. I'm thinking he played it instant gratification style, so he could just simply perform evil acts and get dark power.

Q4) How many PCs are there?

There are 6 pc's right now. There's a bard that somewhat sides with the evil character, a new ranger that has no idea who he is, a wizard who was the second to last character that knew of Greebo (the one that died that night), the evil characters new character some dwarf crafter, a dwarf melee type, a gnome wizard/conjuration type deal, and me a cleric.
Shard of Suzail
10-17-04, 01:20 PM Thats a really bad sign, that means that if he kills your entire goup, he wont have to retire. Your gm is bending over backwards to give him time slices even when he has a character that doesnt fit the game. That is all wrong.

Unless some very advanced and responsible roleplay is going on (and i suspect it isnt), noone should have two characters, let alone one that opposes the party and one that does not. The Gm should control the enemy character, especially in Ravenloft. If he is an evil, enemy of the party, then he becomes an NPC, which is the point of the entire setting.

The situation is just ludicrous and beyond belief. If any player acts against the unity of the party, then his character doesnt deserve a time slot of great length. I have known weak GM's to allow players to literally walk away from a party and play in their own little solo game for a session or two.

The camera follows the heroes and if they deliberately violate the flow of the game then the GM should not give them camera time, he should summarise events that happen for them.

I have seen too many players have characters walk in the other direction from a party, confident that the GM will let them do it. A strong GM will turn around and say, "well, if you arent getting on the boat, then fair enough, roll up a new character and your current one retires".

This player kills the party off and then wonders why it is that he isnt getting game time. Now he is rewarded with two characters, one of which is till trying to kill the party off and might potentially take the party over - with his other character still in it (i dont sense he will fight his own character somehow, especially when there are party members who might side with it).

What happens now? He has two evil characters trying to kill the group and then gets a third when the other players still decide to be good aligned heroes? How dare he do such a thing, he should be made to toe the line and realise that there are other people around that table trying to have fun.

He is trying to run the party his way and the gm is letting him. He either hands his evil character over to the gm permanently, or you should just refuse to play with him. His selfishness is beyond belief.
danielinthewolvesden
10-17-04, 07:21 PM Right, what Shard said. Basicly, thsi player is getting twice the fun, and everyone else is getting less.

Speak to the other players and the DM out of charatcer. Explain how this is making you feel. The DM should make the evil PC an NPC, and caution the Player to play his new PC properly- that is to say, part of the group and an enemy of his old PC.

DO NOT TRY AN FIX THIS "IN GAME" BY KILLING THE OTHER PC! I suspect strongly that it will only make things worse.
OrbitalB
10-17-04, 07:54 PM I agree with the general opinions of the others. His evil PC should be handed over as an NPC, and he should play nice or play elsewhere.

IMC I probably go overboard on the subject even... but my player's know it right from day one. If they are playing out of alignment for too long (and it don't take very long to be 'too long' with me), their alignment will change. If their alignment shifts to evil, they will hand over their character as an NPC. I will go for a private coffee with the player and talk about the character, and what motives and such their ex-PC should probably have. If they wish to get the character back as a PC, we will talk about what that character might do to adjust his attitude. If they come up with good options for reversing the falling trend in allignment, then the character will follow that path, reverse the alignment shift and be handed back. Second time, character is an NPC for good, bacause it's obviously their life-path to be evil.

An 'evil' based campaign is an exception (and something I have no interest in ever being involved with). Where even then PCs will be 'good' to each other (relatively), and just 'evil' to the rest of the universe. Selfishness is an evil trait, and evil people do not foster resources, they consume that which others have built. Therefore, as far as a building the relationships of a party, PCs need to at least 'treat' their party members 'good'.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Pashia 10-17-04, 05:26 AM	Okay, so the story starts off like this. Someone in our group starts an neutral evil character when we start our Ravenloft campaign. After a few incidents and powers checks (they burned down a building with a friend of me and this ranger inside) he ends up evil and trying to kill off our original party. (one member is still living) He finally kills the last party member he had as a target. During the combat I point out that after he's seen he can't hide again. I'm told in some sort of half ass manner "He has some dark power that helps him do it, it seemed like ****** to me." Anyway, the lame thing is, after a while his character was constantly seperated, so he *ed about it to the GM. Basically the GM allowed him to create a whole different character to play. So essentially, because one player was **ing because he missed out on time.. he gets a new character that's part of the group which contains people he wants to kill. Note, Also: when he had to do stuff with said evil character, it took time away from the entire group* not just one person like before. Basically the character is a one shot kill type rogue. Tons of hide/move silently, tons of dex, and a few dark powers from the path of corruption. Anyway, what I'm looking for basically, is recommendations on how to kill said evil character, or hamper him horribly. Note: I'm a 5th level cleric with access to raise a few undead I could have working for me, I have some gold I could hire trackers, etc. Just looking for a good way to take care of this.
TheRedRobedWizard 10-17-04, 10:42 AM	Q1) What is your character's alignment? Q2) What is the chronological age of the DM? Q3) Why is this player so in to playing evil so much? Q4) How many PCs are there? With the above information, I can give you a better opinion than my first... which was "don't adventure with that PC. tell the player to play a damned team player." My second feeling on this was "he has to sleep some time." -TRRW
Shard of Suzail 10-17-04, 11:50 AM	It was quite hard to read your post, i`m not sure i entirely understood it. Nonetheless i get the general idea. First off, i see "Neutral Evil" and i see "Ravenloft. Well, evil characters in Ravenloft are simply not wise to have ina a group. A Ravenloft party must be pure of heart otherwise they die or become npc's or simply miss the point of the scenario. Neutral evil is even worse, as its as close to being mad as you are going to get and thus its totally opposed to party unity. Gm shouldnt be allowing that kind of play in the Ravenloft setting. I then kind of lose the plot with your post. Seems he comes back as a new character but still wants to kill the party? It is possible to rehide after being seen, by the way, though you would need to be in cluttered terrain or move behind something. You cant do it in plain sight unless your class or abilities say otherwise. You mention summoning undead. Now, my neutral character does that all the time, but i wouldnt be able to think about it in Ravenloft. If your Cleric is thinking like that, then its all gone wrong. My suggestion is - Dont fight this other character, let him win. Then, once that is done, play a proper game without all this stupidity. If your GM doesnt sort it out, then sort him out instead. The longer you keep up the fight, the more enjoyment this foolish player gets, so dont give him that satisfaction, just say "you win" and enjoy the fact that his character is instantly retired.
Pashia 10-17-04, 12:28 PM	Basically he allowed him to play 2 seperate characters, his new one, which is not evil, while still controlling the evil one. He did it because his evil character wasn't getting enough "game time." I think it's lame that because one character isn't getting enough DM attention, that the entire group suffers because they instead are allowed to play a new character which is part of the main group, and an offshot which is against the group, it's ********. Q1) What is your character's alignment? true neutral, he has a very strong justified hatred for this evil character though Q2) What is the chronological age of the DM? the DM is 18 Q3) Why is this player so in to playing evil so much? I could tell at character creation that this character would end up on the path of corruption. I'm thinking he played it instant gratification style, so he could just simply perform evil acts and get dark power. Q4) How many PCs are there? There are 6 pc's right now. There's a bard that somewhat sides with the evil character, a new ranger that has no idea who he is, a wizard who was the second to last character that knew of Greebo (the one that died that night), the evil characters new character some dwarf crafter, a dwarf melee type, a gnome wizard/conjuration type deal, and me a cleric.
Shard of Suzail 10-17-04, 01:20 PM	Thats a really bad sign, that means that if he kills your entire goup, he wont have to retire. Your gm is bending over backwards to give him time slices even when he has a character that doesnt fit the game. That is all wrong. Unless some very advanced and responsible roleplay is going on (and i suspect it isnt), noone should have two characters, let alone one that opposes the party and one that does not. The Gm should control the enemy character, especially in Ravenloft. If he is an evil, enemy of the party, then he becomes an NPC, which is the point of the entire setting. The situation is just ludicrous and beyond belief. If any player acts against the unity of the party, then his character doesnt deserve a time slot of great length. I have known weak GM's to allow players to literally walk away from a party and play in their own little solo game for a session or two. The camera follows the heroes and if they deliberately violate the flow of the game then the GM should not give them camera time, he should summarise events that happen for them. I have seen too many players have characters walk in the other direction from a party, confident that the GM will let them do it. A strong GM will turn around and say, "well, if you arent getting on the boat, then fair enough, roll up a new character and your current one retires". This player kills the party off and then wonders why it is that he isnt getting game time. Now he is rewarded with two characters, one of which is till trying to kill the party off and might potentially take the party over - with his other character still in it (i dont sense he will fight his own character somehow, especially when there are party members who might side with it). What happens now? He has two evil characters trying to kill the group and then gets a third when the other players still decide to be good aligned heroes? How dare he do such a thing, he should be made to toe the line and realise that there are other people around that table trying to have fun. He is trying to run the party his way and the gm is letting him. He either hands his evil character over to the gm permanently, or you should just refuse to play with him. His selfishness is beyond belief.
danielinthewolvesden 10-17-04, 07:21 PM	Right, what Shard said. Basicly, thsi player is getting twice the fun, and everyone else is getting less. Speak to the other players and the DM out of charatcer. Explain how this is making you feel. The DM should make the evil PC an NPC, and caution the Player to play his new PC properly- that is to say, part of the group and an enemy of his old PC. DO NOT TRY AN FIX THIS "IN GAME" BY KILLING THE OTHER PC! I suspect strongly that it will only make things worse.
OrbitalB 10-17-04, 07:54 PM	I agree with the general opinions of the others. His evil PC should be handed over as an NPC, and he should play nice or play elsewhere. IMC I probably go overboard on the subject even... but my player's know it right from day one. If they are playing out of alignment for too long (and it don't take very long to be 'too long' with me), their alignment will change. If their alignment shifts to evil, they will hand over their character as an NPC. I will go for a private coffee with the player and talk about the character, and what motives and such their ex-PC should probably have. If they wish to get the character back as a PC, we will talk about what that character might do to adjust his attitude. If they come up with good options for reversing the falling trend in allignment, then the character will follow that path, reverse the alignment shift and be handed back. Second time, character is an NPC for good, bacause it's obviously their life-path to be evil. An 'evil' based campaign is an exception (and something I have no interest in ever being involved with). Where even then PCs will be 'good' to each other (relatively), and just 'evil' to the rest of the universe. Selfishness is an evil trait, and evil people do not foster resources, they consume that which others have built. Therefore, as far as a building the relationships of a party, PCs need to at least 'treat' their party members 'good'.