Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AZNsupermarket 12-26-06, 02:38 PM	What is the best way for an evil party to get healing? Can evil characters even cast "cure" spells? Here is the party make-up (as of now): Cleric 6 Wizard 5/Elemental Savant 1 Ninja 5/Swordsage 1 Warblade 6 If the entire party is evil, how do you suggest we regain hp?
Coren 12-26-06, 02:49 PM	The evil cleric can cast cure spells just like a good cleric. The only difference is that the evil one cannot spontaneously cast them.
TheChilliGod 12-26-06, 02:54 PM	But he can spontaneously cast Inflict... Well, if none of you really need spare feats for whatever build, you could take the feat in Libris Mortis that makes cure spells hurt & inflict spells heal. Either that, or just buy yourself a wand, if you want to spare the spell slots for something other than healing.
AZNsupermarket 12-26-06, 02:57 PM	Nice! At 6th level, which cure spell would be the optimal (in terms of cost vs effectiveness)? Which characters should be carrying these wands?
Seerow 12-26-06, 03:06 PM	Lesser Vigor is most optimal if you can get it. If not, CLW always works well. The Cleric should probably use it, but everyone should pitch in to pay for it.
CryoSilver 12-26-06, 03:14 PM	Invest in a Wand of Lesser Vigor.
AZNsupermarket 12-26-06, 03:34 PM	Invest in a Wand of Lesser Vigor. How much do one of these babies go for?
Nightbluejh 12-26-06, 03:38 PM	I would actually suggest that another pc use the wand, assuming he has the UMD to use it well. This way if the cleric goes down you still have a source of healing other than him/her. The Wizard is probally best suited to hold the wand. For one he is usually out of the way of combat or not in melee, second he probably has the highest UMD considering the otherr two PCs are warriors.
CryoSilver 12-26-06, 03:47 PM	How much do one of these babies go for? Same as wand of CLW: 750 gp, and the best hp to gp ration available.
AZNsupermarket 12-26-06, 04:00 PM	I would actually suggest that another pc use the wand, assuming he has the UMD to use it well. This way if the cleric goes down you still have a source of healing other than him/her. The Wizard is probally best suited to hold the wand. For one he is usually out of the way of combat or not in melee, second he probably has the highest UMD considering the otherr two PCs are warriors. Would investing ranks in a cross-class skill like UMD be a good idea for a wizard? -On a side note, why would rogues get UMD as a class skill and not ninjas? :weep:
McSlugger 12-26-06, 04:40 PM	What is the best way for an evil party to get healing? Can evil characters even cast "cure" spells? Here is the party make-up (as of now): Cleric 6 Wizard 5/Elemental Savant 1 Ninja 5/Swordsage 1 Warblade 6 If the entire party is evil, how do you suggest we regain hp? Force priests to provide healing under the threat of violence/.
LCD2YOU 12-26-06, 04:44 PM	Which is why being evil isn't all what it's cracked up to be. But Wands or Potions of Healing, taken at sword point from a good cleric which will always brings a smile to the cleric's evil God, are the best way to go. Either that or have them find a 6th level/6 Int Cleric of Pelor.
AZNsupermarket 12-26-06, 04:47 PM	Force priests to provide healing under the threat of violence/. The problem wasn't that he wouldn't, I wasn't sure if he could. Now thanks to the other posters, I know otherwise.
King Bulba 12-27-06, 05:30 AM	Which is why being evil isn't all what it's cracked up to be. Except for the part that it can be really enjoyable, just make sure its good friendly evil. Also you can take PHBII version so you can choose to spontaneously cast a domain, so pick a cause that has the healing domain makes sense, you are just overzelous and evil in your cause to rid the world of evil or something. Hmm spontaneous healing feat if you are neutral works as well.
Lethanic 12-27-06, 05:59 AM	What is the best way for an evil party to get healing? Can evil characters even cast "cure" spells? Here is the party make-up (as of now): Cleric 6 Wizard 5/Elemental Savant 1 Ninja 5/Swordsage 1 Warblade 6 If the entire party is evil, how do you suggest we regain hp? By repenting their evil ways and coming over to the light? :D :D :D
Khadmus 12-27-06, 08:29 AM	I don't have any of the complete books, so my knowledge of feats is quite limited. However, I think King Bulba has a good idea, unless your diety is neutral evil (there's a clause somewhere that only clerics of TN gods can be TN, i think)
Cainin 12-27-06, 09:59 AM	For those willing to burn a feat slot, I would suggest "Tomb Tainted Soul" from Libris Mortis. It's only requirement is a non-good alignment. After taking the feat, the character is now healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy (similar to an undead). Thus the cleric's spontaneous inflicts are still useful to the character in question.
PhaedrusXY 12-27-06, 10:25 AM	Anyone else think of "Warrior needs food badly"... or am I too old?
AZNsupermarket 12-27-06, 10:27 AM	Anyone else think of "Warrior needs food badly"... or am I too old? Pun intended - Good catch
AZNsupermarket 12-27-06, 10:29 AM	For those willing to burn a feat slot, I would suggest "Tomb Tainted Soul" from Libris Mortis. It's only requirement is a non-good alignment. After taking the feat, the character is now healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy (similar to an undead). Thus the cleric's spontaneous inflicts are still useful to the character in question. But he can spontaneously cast Inflict... Well, if none of you really need spare feats for whatever build, you could take the feat in Libris Mortis that makes cure spells hurt & inflict spells heal. I thought about, but I know that I'm personally low on feats as it is, and the rest of the party won't be thrilled to give up one of their precious feats as well.
AZNsupermarket 12-27-06, 10:32 AM	Hmm spontaneous healing feat if you are neutral works as well. I don't have any of the complete books, so my knowledge of feats is quite limited. However, I think King Bulba has a good idea, unless your diety is neutral evil (there's a clause somewhere that only clerics of TN gods can be TN, i think) I thought about this myself as well. Unfortunately the cleric really got into the idea of an evil cleric. Not today, too bad...
pres_man 12-27-06, 10:58 AM	Get an evil bard, that should get you some healing. Or evil favored soul or shugenja.
Nightbluejh 12-27-06, 03:04 PM	What is the best way for an evil party to get healing? Can evil characters even cast "cure" spells? Here is the party make-up (as of now): Cleric 6 Wizard 5/Elemental Savant 1 Ninja 5/Swordsage 1 Warblade 6 If the entire party is evil, how do you suggest we regain hp? The answer is all of them. Cure spells only inflict damage on undead creatures. The Pos. enerrgey is like neg. energy to any living creature.
primemover003 12-27-06, 05:55 PM	Yeah your cleric is more than capable of casting cure spells... he just can't spontaneously cast them. That aside, as no one with UMD ranks it's up to your medic and for you to invest in potions.
kenji508 12-27-06, 07:51 PM	Dont give the wizard the wand, might seem kinda normal for them to shoot healing twords a ally far away, but healing spells are toutch spells, so the wizard would have to go to.... *gasp* the front lines!
Anaesthesia 12-27-06, 08:39 PM	Aren't there potions of cure spells, also? Aside from that.. I do that LE Dragon shamans can cast vigor(or whatever it's called-it is similar to but not as effective as a cure spell) on his/her allies if they're a high enough level.. but that's a totally different character... For my cleric I put some ranks in Healing (I was under the impression that most clerics can take this skill)..
Ryusage 12-27-06, 08:47 PM	Aren't there potions of cure spells, also? Aside from that.. I do that LE Dragon shamans can cast vigor(or whatever it's called-it is similar to but not as effective as a cure spell) on his/her allies if they're a high enough level.. but that's a totally different character... For my cleric I put some ranks in Healing (I was under the impression that most clerics can take this skill).. Not effective for short-term healing, unfortunately.
Raxmei 12-27-06, 08:52 PM	Just prepare some cure spells when you do your morning prayers. You just have to plan a little more carefully than a good character because you have to estimate in advance how much healing you need instead of doing it on the fly. Healing spells don't have alignment descriptors so a cleric of any alignment can cast them. The same applies to inflict spells with good characters in case you're wondering. If the cleric refuses to prepare heals then you have another problem entirely.
Mock26 12-27-06, 10:29 PM	They can go out, steal a portable hole, and then rob every good church and temple that they can find and steal all the potions of healing that they can find.
Roivas 12-28-06, 03:29 AM	Your evil cleric needs to learn that keeping his allies alive will further his evil objectives by mere merit of letting him live to accomplish them. Wehnever I play an evil cleric, which strangely enough is more often than I play a good cleric, I make sure to prep at least two healing spells for every spell level. I also try to keep an undectable alignment on the list, but that's because I don't like being smotten by upstart paladins. But you really need to let your cleric know that he is better off just prepping the cure spells, and leaving his inflict attacks to full round actions. Though adding an evil bard to the party wouldn't be a bad idea either. All good villians need cool music as they ominously stride through a burning temple of Pelor.
someonelse812 12-28-06, 11:54 AM	Nice! At 6th level, which cure spell would be the optimal (in terms of cost vs effectiveness)? Which characters should be carrying these wands? theres some cool healing spells in the spell compendium. close wounds can be used at range as a swift action, very useful in a tight spot. also light of venya is cool, unless the party has undead or outsiders.
King Bulba 12-28-06, 08:31 PM	Seriously PHBII allows you to spontaniously cast one domain instead of positive or negative healing. Then as an evil cleric pick a cause that has healing in it. Now you spontaneously cast healing spells. LE makes sense that you heal people but only the ones that "pay" for it. You let the poor die and the rich survive since they can afford your prices.
PhaedrusXY 12-28-06, 08:33 PM	There are very few evil deities with the Healing domain. One of the orc deities has it, and that's about all I've found. If you're allowed to not worship a deity, and instead pick a "cause", then yes, what you're suggesting can work. I know that isn't allowed in alot of games, however.
King Bulba 12-28-06, 08:42 PM	I know that isn't allowed in alot of games, however. I can only respond to what I know, RAW. As stupid as it is, allows people to follow causes. Only FR says you can't. Which I would never play in anyways. "Its black, lets kill it! Since its black it is obviously evil..." Yeah I like to believe things that have intelegence can choose their actions and thus alighnment.
Mock26 12-28-06, 08:53 PM	Having played in a couple of evil groups in the past, I have always found that a 5-10% tithe of your own personal treasure to the healer in the group goes a long way to ensuring your own survival. Of course, this just means that you have to plot on how to get the money back withouth the healer finding out, but that can be quite fun! Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Prak, the Mad 12-28-06, 10:16 PM	Force priests to provide healing under the threat of violence/. not priests, they can call up paladins and such, go find a lone hermit in the woods(make sure it's not a druid, just some little old man who knows herbal healing and minor magic, so an adept or the like) and force him to heal you through threat of violence.
Aricandor 12-29-06, 09:55 AM	Getting everyone to take the Tomb-Tainted Soul feat from LM can be a "solution" (makes Inflict spells heal you, and those the cleric can cast spontaneously). That's what my current evil group has done.
Judging Eagle 12-29-06, 12:59 PM	Your evil cleric needs to learn that keeping his allies alive will further his evil objectives by mere merit of letting him live to accomplish them. Wehnever I play an evil cleric, which strangely enough is more often than I play a good cleric, I make sure to prep at least two healing spells for every spell level. I also try to keep an undectable alignment on the list, but that's because I don't like being smotten by upstart paladins. But you really need to let your cleric know that he is better off just prepping the cure spells, and leaving his inflict attacks to full round actions. Though adding an evil bard to the party wouldn't be a bad idea either. All good villians need cool music as they ominously stride through a burning temple of Pelor. Ugh, no, no and most importantly. No. I hate to force clerics into being walking band-aids, that's one of the reasons that players don't want to play them. Just use Wands of Lesser Vigour (you get ast healing 1 for 10 + Caser level rounds, or 11 rounds). Since it's a 1st lvl spell, you get 550 hit points out of a 750gp wand. Here's a hint: your party buys at least two of these wands, right now. After every adventure, every party member pitches in to buy one or two more such wands. Buy at least one per adventure and make sure you have at least a spare one with full charges before starting. If your party is really getting hit for damage, buy two or more per adventure. Eventually, you'll have a couple thousand in ablative HP (4 fullish wands = 2000 hp in healing) which should be enough for all 'between combats' healing. Remember to invest in some potions for 'oh crap' situations, or have everyone pitch in for a wand of cure serious wounds (the 4d8+7 hp spell, you'll have situations where you will need spikes of HP). theres some cool healing spells in the spell compendium. close wounds can be used at range as a swift action, very useful in a tight spot. also light of venya is cool, unless the party has undead or outsiders. Yes! The Close Wounds spell can be made into an item for about 12,000 gp. Sure it's only 1d4+3 hp, but anyone can use it, whenever they want (once a round, but at any point in the round), plus it has a few fet of range (25 + 5/2 caster levels, so 35 since it's a 2nd lvl spell). I made one for my group's Eberron game, I'm going to clip it to my Archivists shield; handing it to other people who will be isolated and might need healing. As well as give the non-healers a way to patch the healers up if something disaterous happens to them. The jury is still out on whether you can use the spell to save a party member who's been affected by a death effect (since, acroding to the DMG 'death effects' put you at -10. However Close wounds can be used even on a target that is at -10; your mileage may vary).
High Octane 12-29-06, 04:37 PM	Force priests to provide healing under the threat of violence/. Another problem solved by copious violence.
Cold Napalm 12-29-06, 08:19 PM	Or you could use the vampiric touch and healing touch wizard spells hehe...that's always fun.
PhaedrusXY 12-29-06, 09:46 PM	Another problem solved by copious violence.Yes. Truly there is no problem in D&D that can't be solved by a large enough application of violence and/or undead minions. Right? Right?
Rivelstraz 12-30-06, 10:12 AM	Getting the leadership feat and taking an adept would help too. Get him to prepare only cure spells and be the "wand-user".
High Octane 12-30-06, 10:25 AM	Yes. Truly there is no problem in D&D that can't be solved by a large enough application of violence and/or undead minions. Right? Right? nope. But duct tape is more efficient. Also Febreeze.