Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ericSHINRA 06-18-07, 10:07 PM	Alright, I'm creating a 5th level scout for my next game but have yet to choose between whether I should go the ranged or melee route. Regardless, if anyone has an example of Skirmish tactics in literature or film I'd appreciate any insight into how I can be creative with this unique ability.
Salla 06-18-07, 10:45 PM	I recommend ranged skirmishing rather than melee, because of the scout's Fast Movement, your generally lower armorclass (light armor only), which means you don't want to get close to big things with nasty full attack sequences, and the Greater Manyshot feat that lets you skirmish with multiple arrows. :)
windscar18 06-18-07, 10:53 PM	Flavorwise, it only makes sense when you treat it as more of a "I pass by you and slash at you" type of deal. Not when you're vibrating back and forth with a ranged weapon and somehow getting extra damage (though AC makes sense). Using Ranged is the easier method, but melee Scouts fit better in the grand scheme of the ultimate art of splashibility. Oh, who am I kidding? If you go full Scout, then being an archer usually works.
Raven_Bloodtracker 06-18-07, 11:25 PM	quick question: which book is Greater Manyshot in?
Yadot 06-18-07, 11:30 PM	quick question: which book is Greater Manyshot in? It's in the Expanded Psionics Handbook (although it's not a psionic feat). The rules for it can be read in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot).
Raven_Bloodtracker 06-18-07, 11:34 PM	Thanks! :D That's a funny place for it to be.
buzzsawl 06-19-07, 12:49 AM	Actually pretty much any movie w/ gunfights in them have skirmish tactics in them: Hide, Shoot, Hide Anime is big on the run-by sword attacks.
gamerdork 06-19-07, 08:55 AM	Hang on, why are some of your referring to 'ranged skirmishing rather than melee' and 'whether I should go the ranged or melee route'? Skirmish applies to "all weapon damage" during the Scout's action, not just melee or ranged. Perhaps you are referring to the role-playing flavor of the character? On that note, though, fellow DMs and I in our area are considering house ruling the Skirmish ability so that each d6 the character gains applies only to melee or ranged attack rolls, much like the ranger must choose hsi cimbat style at level 2. Game on! - Corey
DrMorganes 06-19-07, 11:24 AM	Hang on, why are some of your referring to 'ranged skirmishing rather than melee' and 'whether I should go the ranged or melee route'? Skirmish applies to "all weapon damage" during the Scout's action, not just melee or ranged. Perhaps you are referring to the role-playing flavor of the character? On that note, though, fellow DMs and I in our area are considering house ruling the Skirmish ability so that each d6 the character gains applies only to melee or ranged attack rolls, much like the ranger must choose hsi cimbat style at level 2. Game on! - Corey Because there are practical limitations to your ability at Level 5. Your movement rate is still fairly standard, and you don't yet have Spring Attack/Shot on the Run. As noted by Salla, you're essentially a mobile rogue: low AC, low HP, modest BAB, fairly high damage. The eratta has clarified Skirmish; you have to MOVE FIRST to get the damage bonus. This means you move in, attack, and hope that you not only hit but drop your target. If you end your turn within melee range the odds are you're going to get whacked (in the Sopranos sense)! Sticking to archery minimizes your exposure here. Your damage output will likely be the same or better. Odds are you'll have a better DEX than STR to go with that light armor, so you'll hit more with a ranged weapon. Your Skirmish damage will quickly overtake any STR bonus you may have, and TWF with your BAB really doesn't get viable for a few more levels, even with Weapon Finesse. It comes down to style, however. Do you deal damage consistently from a (mostly) safe distance, or do you close in with blades flashing and hope for a spectacular kill - knowing that your opponent will likely be better able to hit your AC, have a larger weapon that does more damage (and potentially have Power Attack)? As far as your DM's ruling, it'd fight that one tooth and nail. Scouts have enough trouble as it is (see above) - limiting them to ONE style makes little sense. Unlike rangers, scouts receive no special benefit from choosing ranged or melee. And unlike rangers, scouts do not have a full BAB progression, which already limits their combat effectiveness and serves as a counterbalance for their increased damage output. Scouts also don't have the ranger's magical abilities or animal companion to help enhance their combat effectiveness. As a player, I'd want something in return for being forced to choose between ranged or melee combat. As a DM I would be very reluctant to grant that request for fear of further unbalancing the class.
Nephlite 06-19-07, 07:58 PM	Alright, I'm creating a 5th level scout for my next game but have yet to choose between whether I should go the ranged or melee route. Regardless, if anyone has an example of Skirmish tactics in literature or film I'd appreciate any insight into how I can be creative with this unique ability. Mel Gibson's character that used a axe and a knife +skirmish to decimate the British warriors to save his kid.
ericSHINRA 06-19-07, 10:38 PM	The Patriot, yeah, I remember that actually. I forgot to mention that, sorry. Thanks for the help, everyone.
kintire 06-20-07, 09:47 AM	TWF with your BAB really doesn't get viable for a few more levels, even with Weapon Finesse. TWF is useless to a scout. It requires a full attack, which you don't get your extra damage on. On that note, though, fellow DMs and I in our area are considering house ruling the Skirmish ability so that each d6 the character gains applies only to melee or ranged attack rolls, much like the ranger must choose hsi cimbat style at level 2. Why? why do you hate us? Why do we have to suffer? It just looked like an interesting class. Now I am staring "no iterative attacks" in the very face and feebly muttering "at least I can run away fast" and you want to hurt me more. Why? does making people suffer make you feel big? Examine your soul. Do you really feel victimising the weak is a fulfilling path through life? :bigeyes:
Sphyre 06-20-07, 04:43 PM	Can you imagine someone running around the battle field like he has ADHD? At first he charges at someone, slashing him to peices. Whether or not he succeeds at this attack, he leaves that target to charge a new one, just like a pinball in a pinball machine. He always takes fullround attacks because he's a barbarian 1 with the alternate class feature of pounce from the complete champion and the rest in scout. With two-weapon fighting, or swift hunter and going into ranger for the two weapon fighting he goes around taking advantage of his skirmish every round. I just can imagine that on the battle field... someone seeing someone bounce off people like a bouncy ball... "What the hell is that guy doing?"
darkneolink 06-20-07, 05:57 PM	yeah just picture... Orc: why is he acting like that? Orc2: I don't know I'm scared Orc leader: everyone come closer so he won't be moving like that around us Wizard: fireball!!!... thanks bud Scout: no prob
Sildatorak 06-20-07, 08:22 PM	If you go with the melee scout, you definitely need spring attack. If you don't get it, you lose.
Salla 06-20-07, 09:46 PM	I just can imagine that on the battle field... someone seeing someone bounce off people like a bouncy ball... "What the hell is that guy doing?" "SIR! Kicking our asses, SIR!"
Ack 06-21-07, 03:07 AM	And after the wizard fireballs them, the fighter (or other close melee build) moves in with Great Cleave to mop up the remainder.
Lionhearted 06-21-07, 08:18 AM	http://youtube.com/watch?v=jndDIk3ddJM meep meep
Peregrine_Wolf 06-21-07, 06:44 PM	"SIR! Kicking our asses, SIR!" Only the Army and Marines like Sir Sandwiches
Bob Loblaw 06-21-07, 06:51 PM	Only the Army and Marines like Sir Sandwiches I don't know, I think my unit preferred soup sandwiches sometimes.
darkneolink 06-21-07, 07:16 PM	I don't know, I think my unit preferred soup sandwiches sometimes. I like chicken better now lets stop derailing the thread
Crash169 06-22-07, 01:27 AM	Skirmish is incredibly fun when used alongside with the Brachiation feat. Leap through medium to dense tree's while firing arrows at your enemies. If your going to be a skirmisher I would suggest taking a look at the Swift Ambusher and Improved Skirmish feats from the Complete Scoundrel.
WolfHati 06-23-07, 09:20 PM	Reach weapons might help with a melee scout, keeping you more out of melee combat range. And spring attack is, of course, a must.