Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Siegbert 02-12-08, 11:05 AM	in our party we have five chars that are pretty different (alignment and race-wise) but that cooperate pretty well mostly, except for one char. this chars player almost always insults all other players, calling them scum, idiots, and what not (inplay), up to a point were it simply gets annoying outplay. i think its okay and normal to have some arguments inplay (like elves vs. dwarfs and stuff) but this guys got me to a point where i was truely thinking about attacking his char. when confronted about this, the players says his behaviour is good roleplaying because his char doesn't like the party and stuff (but has to stick with them for reasons). So, i wonder what you would do (inplay and outplay). im really thinking about secretly rolling a willsafe every time he calls me something from now on and attacking him if i fail. yet, i dont feel good about chars attacking each other....
kelvinaw273 02-12-08, 12:51 PM	Retaliate in kind. Think up some good insults to turn back on him when he throws his arrows at you that make him the butt of the joke, and add a few sayings and anecdotes to remind him that he started it. You to NPC: "I'll tell you what I know ..." Annoying PC: "It won't take long for him to tell you everything he knows." You: "No, and sadly that's everything we both know." APC: "Are you calling me an idiot?" You: "Well people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones ..." Get everyone to join in, and soon he'll get the message. APC to Elf PC: "Oh look, it's that fairy in his green tights!" EPC: "It could be worse - it could have been you." APC: "I'm glad I'm not an elf." EPC: "That's a great line to have them add to your tombstone," [gets out LARGE diary and flips a few pages in, then look at APC quizzically], "how long do humans normally live, again?" Assuming the superior attitude to him as if he's some kind of child (which he acts like) will have him making a fool of himself very quickly.
Shadowshimmer 02-12-08, 01:02 PM	Depending on my type of character would determine how I would respond. If I was playing one of my Monks, I would ignore it I suppose and feel pity for him. If I was a Knight, I would kindly ask him to refrain from insulting me and my honor. If I was playing one of my Wizards, I would probably turn him into a frog and if I was playing one of my Half-orc Barbs or Dwarf Fighters then I would probably hand him his head.
narack 02-12-08, 01:02 PM	in our party we have five chars that are pretty different (alignment and race-wise) but that cooperate pretty well mostly, except for one char. this chars player almost always insults all other players, calling them scum, idiots, and what not (inplay), up to a point were it simply gets annoying outplay. i think its okay and normal to have some arguments inplay (like elves vs. dwarfs and stuff) but this guys got me to a point where i was truely thinking about attacking his char. when confronted about this, the players says his behaviour is good roleplaying because his char doesn't like the party and stuff (but has to stick with them for reasons). So, i wonder what you would do (inplay and outplay). im really thinking about secretly rolling a willsafe every time he calls me something from now on and attacking him if i fail. yet, i dont feel good about chars attacking each other.... If you think that also annoy your character, a good brawl always nice. And best case the other players around will saw that and may also react more to his insult after you've done the first step. Check with your DM before if you could make that up so you have surprise round by being well position when that happen
MrCustomer 02-12-08, 01:20 PM	Easy solution. I had an Employee who was a jerk, always annoying the other workers, insulting and belittling them. He disliked the other workers and as a result they dislike him. He hated his job, but had to keep it because he needed work. How I dealt with him is how the party should deal with this PC ingame, and explain to him that you are only RPing your characters as to how they would react to his PC. I fired the worker, problem solved. Just say ingame "Hey Annoying PC, this is where we part ways, you are annoying and insulting and it's obvious you dislike us. And we don't like you either. So it's time you went your seperate way, here is your share. Hey don't be angry, out of consideration for the dangers we have faced together we are content to just let you walk away, so don't press you luck any further. This isn't up for debate and your reasons for needing our group is not our concern, it's your problem. Goodbye." and walk away, don't tell the player in advance that you are going to do this, just reach a party concensus. After you fire his PC, look the player in the eye and say "Hey, it's not personal, we are just roleplaying our characters how they would put up with a complete ******, and this is how they would handle it. Your welcome to roll a new character if you want, but if our group sees that ******* again we will probably kill him, unless he stops acting like a ***** and is groveling on his knees for forgiveness."
CaptainPicard 02-12-08, 11:40 PM	Double Post; Delete Please
CaptainPicard 02-12-08, 11:42 PM	Do you mean annoying as in the insults themselves are getting on your nerves, or just the frequency of them? I had a situation a while ago where my character could not get in a second word without one of these two players making a statement about his sexual preference. It wasn't that I was upset about what they were saying (although the character sure was), but I was getting annoyed simply because I literally couldn't talk to any NPC or do anything IC without hearing them going on in the background. In this case, the best solution is just to ask them to tone it down, and it shouldn't be much of a problem because odds are he isn't trying to be a jackass to you guys personally (the two players in my case weren't). If the insults themselves are the problem, well, I recommend the same solution, but in this case it might be hard to have him keep the same character if he needs to actually change how his character responds. Edit: and walk away, don't tell the player in advance that you are going to do this, just reach a party concensus. After you fire his PC, look the player in the eye and say "Hey, it's not personal, we are just roleplaying our characters how they would put up with a complete ******, and this is how they would handle it. Your welcome to roll a new character if you want, but if our group sees that ******* again we will probably kill him, unless he stops acting like a ***** and is groveling on his knees for forgiveness." I would highly recommend not doing this unless you don't want that player around anymore. And even if you don't, that's still beyond impolite, especially to someone whose only "crime" is roleplaying a character the rest of the group does not like.
Salla 02-13-08, 01:57 AM	I would highly recommend not doing this unless you don't want that player around anymore. And even if you don't, that's still beyond impolite, especially to someone whose only "crime" is roleplaying a character the rest of the group does not like. But you expect the rest of the party to not roleplay the effects of their own characters being belittled and insulted at every turn. Unless there's an INCREDIBLY compelling reason (like mind control or royal order) for them to have to put up with the obnoxious jerk, there's no reason they're going to hang around with him, and similarly, if he really and truly doesn't like the party, why is he hanging around with them? This is pretty obviously a case of a player who is choosing to be a jerk hiding behind the cover of a jerk character. The only part I disagree on is the lack of warning. The rest of the players should inform the jerk character's player that, in-character, there's no reason that he should be kept as a member of the party. He doesn't like them, they don't like him, and that needs to start changing or else the character is getting the boot. And if the player quits because his character is a dick and other characters react appropriately to that dickness, he's a crappy player and you shouldn't miss him.
kelvinaw273 02-13-08, 03:34 AM	I have to concur - although an OOC comment to him may be appropriate in advance: "Look, this crap your character is spouting is getting on everyone's nerves. I know it's what your character would do, but if you insist on that we'll do what our characters would do and kick you out. Then you can discover the joys of solo play, or make a new character. Your choice."
Salla 02-13-08, 12:29 PM	I have to concur - although an OOC comment to him may be appropriate in advance: "Look, this crap your character is spouting is getting on everyone's nerves. I know it's what your character would do, but if you insist on that we'll do what our characters would do and kick you out. Then you can discover the joys of solo play, or make a new character. Your choice." Yup. If playing your character means being a jerk to the rest of the party and making the game less fun for everybody else involved, then you've chosen the wrong character.
Krusk 02-13-08, 12:55 PM	when confronted about this, the players says his behaviour is good roleplaying because his char doesn't like the party and stuff (but has to stick with them for reasons). That may be very in character, but that character sticking with the party probably is not. Especially if the party has anything to say about it. Would you personally let some guy who does nothing but make fun of you follow you around? If not, consider how you would react. Now take some of how you would react and see which your character would do. Or you could simply tell him "hey your character is a dick, and no one wants to play because of it. please make a new one. "
MrCustomer 02-13-08, 01:35 PM	I would highly recommend not doing this unless you don't want that player around anymore. And even if you don't, that's still beyond impolite, especially to someone whose only "crime" is roleplaying a character the rest of the group does not like. The impression I am from the orriginal poster is that the player in question has already been confronted with his behaviour and has refused to change it, under the excuse of "good roleplaying" Given that he refuses to change his behaviour I think that the rest of the party should also "roleplay" their characters accordingly. Lets face it, they are meta-gaming around this PC's "role playing" or else his character would have been dead a long time ago. The method I suggest of firing his character is the best because it confronts the player's "good roleplaying" by showing the real results of his ingame behavior. He has to deal with the consequences of his actions. Fighting or attacking him will not work. His goal is to get under everyone's skins and attacking him only shows that he has succeeded. He wins. Unfortunately he is under the false impression that the party MUST have his PC in it, that they must hang out with him and that they cannot get rid of him short of trying to kill him off. In which case he will see he has every right to "defend" himself, from the other PC, who he will view as being in the wrong for PvPing. Firing his PC is the best method because he has no defence to it. The party dosn't have to put up with his behavior, period. And they don't have to be "just as witty" and insult him back, they don't have to defend themselves from his insults, they don't have to listen to his annoying prattle, the party can just walk away and leave him behind, simple as that. The Player can't be angry, the party is only playing their characters with "good roleplaying" as for his PC, he is still alive, his PC can appologize and start behaving better and stay with the party, so the player can't sulk that his favorite PC got killed by another player. In short the party needs to lay down the rules. Either behave properly or take a hike, simple as that. Also you should talk to your DM, NPCs that deal with the group will find his insulting behavior to the party as being rude to them as well. kelvinaw273's example would go like this if I was the DM You to NPC: "I'll tell you what I know ..." Annoying PC: "It won't take long for him to tell you everything he knows." NPC: "Who the hell is that idiot? I have no time for fools, either be silent or go elsewhere" turns to the other PC "really, you should disipline your servents better, no you were saying..."
Rathik 02-13-08, 01:50 PM	Just explain to him that his in-game behavior is detracting from everyone's enjoyment of the game and ask him to stop, or at least tone it down a bit. If he's a mature and reasonable person, he'll understand and comply. If he refuses, boot him. Simple as that.
Drackthor 02-13-08, 02:11 PM	Non. Lethal. Damage.
Drackthor 02-13-08, 02:17 PM	But you expect the rest of the party to not roleplay the effects of their own characters being belittled and insulted at every turn. Unless there's an INCREDIBLY compelling reason (like mind control or royal order) for them to have to put up with the obnoxious jerk, there's no reason they're going to hang around with him, and similarly, if he really and truly doesn't like the party, why is he hanging around with them? This is pretty obviously a case of a player who is choosing to be a jerk hiding behind the cover of a jerk character. The only part I disagree on is the lack of warning. The rest of the players should inform the jerk character's player that, in-character, there's no reason that he should be kept as a member of the party. He doesn't like them, they don't like him, and that needs to start changing or else the character is getting the boot. And if the player quits because his character is a dick and other characters react appropriately to that dickness, he's a crappy player and you shouldn't miss him. Have you ever read The Order of the Stick webcomic? I think it's very plausible to compare Belkar to this non-stop insult machinegun character. Basically, everyone pretty much dislikes Belkar, and the feeling is more then mutual, but they need the extra power he brings to the table, and he's bored, and he'd likely die without 5 other adventurers watching his back, keeping him away from fortune and exp, hence, despite not being ordered or mind controlled, both sides dislike the other, but maintain a party anyhow.
Sinis 02-13-08, 02:55 PM	in our party we have five chars that are pretty different (alignment and race-wise) but that cooperate pretty well mostly, except for one char. this chars player almost always insults all other players, calling them scum, idiots, and what not (inplay), up to a point were it simply gets annoying outplay. i think its okay and normal to have some arguments inplay (like elves vs. dwarfs and stuff) but this guys got me to a point where i was truely thinking about attacking his char. when confronted about this, the players says his behaviour is good roleplaying because his char doesn't like the party and stuff (but has to stick with them for reasons). So, i wonder what you would do (inplay and outplay). im really thinking about secretly rolling a willsafe every time he calls me something from now on and attacking him if i fail. yet, i dont feel good about chars attacking each other.... What reasons does he have to stick with the people he hates? More importantly, what reasons do the other party members have to tolerate him? Seriously, the rest of the party may decide he's more trouble than he's worth, and leave him behind at some point. You know, like making him take last watch at night, and everyone leaving in the middle of the night. Or your party might leave him at an inn. IMO, the rest of the party should just ditch him. Have you ever read The Order of the Stick webcomic? I think it's very plausible to compare Belkar to this non-stop insult machinegun character. Basically, everyone pretty much dislikes Belkar, and the feeling is more then mutual, but they need the extra power he brings to the table, and he's bored, and he'd likely die without 5 other adventurers watching his back, keeping him away from fortune and exp, hence, despite not being ordered or mind controlled, both sides dislike the other, but maintain a party anyhow. Well, yes, this is a good example, but it's just not this simple most of the time. What if Belkar is superflous? They drop him like a stone. What if a replacement for Belkar appears? He gets ditched somewhere. Don't get me wrong, I loooove Order of the Stick, but I am quite certain that Belkar is kept in the party because of Roy thinks it better to keep an eye on him personally instead of him running loose, and that no suitable replacements have appeared. As far as I can tell, no one feels that way about the obnoxious player in Siegbert's party.
Fatalis_902 02-13-08, 03:14 PM	To quote Comus: "First, kill him in his sleep. Then, do something about his character." After that, you may wish to consider nuking the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Lincoln Hills 02-13-08, 03:26 PM	Oo, I know! Just keep taking this character's abuse forever and ever! Because as everybody knows, "I'm just role-playing my character" is a perfect defense which means everybody else at the table has to just sit there and endure it. Forever!
Sinis 02-13-08, 03:31 PM	Oo, I know! Just keep taking this character's abuse forever and ever! Because as everybody knows, "I'm just role-playing my character" is a perfect defense which means everybody else at the table has to just sit there and endure it. Forever! Indeed, I once played a compulsive murderer. It allowed me to kill all the other PCs with absolutely no justification, even if I had just met them, and they totally couldn't say anything, because I was roleplaying a compulsive murderer!
1 ton ghost 02-13-08, 03:46 PM	perhaps if said PC were to preface each slur, diatribe, etc., with, "hey, just giving you a heads up, but this is how 'john doe' would reason or respond to your PC(s) in this situation. ok, 'you guys are dicks and it's a priveledge for you to accompany me...bla bla bla." he'd be in the clear. fair warning and a declaration of his intentions IN GAME w/ an OUT OF GAME explanation. he didn't do this. should've could've would've, so... we proceed to the protocol of RPGs, or, a gradual escalation of hostilities. don't jump the gun as this incites more trouble and eats up the clock (that's time for ALL THE PCs btw), but don't take it on the chin and put a brave face on things in good humor. that's what he wants. don't snub him, but don't oblige him at first. olive branch of diplomacy and all that. given what you've said, his behavior is most likely indicative of his own demeaor in the real world. that is, i'm guessing his elitist tendencies, condescenion, etc. might be a byproduct of a sh-tty home life, no respect from wife or g/f (or lack of one most likely), takes alot of crap at work, etc. so, he will find an emotional outlet in game...he's sublimating real world stressors and venting them in game. totally inappropriate. he should be able to distinguish the 2. speaks of a mental/social immaturity in real life. is he? does he have few friends? full of bombast and big talk, but no conviction? the expense of the other players. this means he is most likely egocentric and more than a little callous. see if he can dish it out but not take it later. after all is said in done, reciprocity is the word of the day. dave chappelle said in best during a skit, "...we reserve the right to kick your ass."
CrimsonDeath 02-13-08, 04:12 PM	Have you ever read The Order of the Stick webcomic? I think it's very plausible to compare Belkar to this non-stop insult machinegun character. Basically, everyone pretty much dislikes Belkar, and the feeling is more then mutual, but they need the extra power he brings to the table, and he's bored, and he'd likely die without 5 other adventurers watching his back, keeping him away from fortune and exp, hence, despite not being ordered or mind controlled, both sides dislike the other, but maintain a party anyhow. Of course, it should be noted that the characters in The Order of the Stick don't actually have separate players; they all share a single writer. Basically, they do whatever is most entertaining to the audience. It's also worth noting that the other characters do get their licks in occasionally. Varsarius uses Explosive Runes and Fire Trap spells to humorous effect, Roy got a Mark of Justice put on Belkar, and Haley recently threatened to kill him if he doesn't shape up. I don't think Belkar ever came into much conflict with Durkon or Elan, but I think Elan is too oblivous to notice when he's being insulted most of the time, and Belkar probably knows better than to annoy the healbot (much).
Pwydde 02-13-08, 04:24 PM	Two cents: 1) Belkar is in OOTS because Burlew thinks he's funny. I agree. 2) Use psycho-babble relationship solutions. You know: Set boundries and stick to them. In character, sincere threats of consequences for his constant insults are warrented. Out of character, sincere threats of consequences for his character's constant insults are warrented. Smooth your threats appropriately depending on your out of game friendship. Follow through. 3) No more Mountain Dew for him.
Pwydde 02-13-08, 04:31 PM	Funny, while I was composing/editing my post, CrimsonDeath made the point about Burlew. Beat me to it by 14 minutes.
LordTarmos 02-13-08, 05:13 PM	i he wont stay behind and you do not want to kill him tie him up and leave him behind or use subdual damage to knock him out and leave him. pay someone to lock him up until 3 days after you leave even if he catches up with you as soon as he causes problems again repeat. then repeat as needed eventually he will get the idea and stop or roll a new character.
Drackthor 02-13-08, 05:21 PM	Of course, it should be noted that the characters in The Order of the Stick don't actually have separate players; they all share a single writer. Basically, they do whatever is most entertaining to the audience. It's also worth noting that the other characters do get their licks in occasionally. Varsarius uses Explosive Runes and Fire Trap spells to humorous effect, Roy got a Mark of Justice put on Belkar, and Haley recently threatened to kill him if he doesn't shape up. I don't think Belkar ever came into much conflict with Durkon or Elan, but I think Elan is too oblivous to notice when he's being insulted most of the time, and Belkar probably knows better than to annoy the healbot (much). That's a very good point, but can it not still be applied to this situation? Have the wizard ask the guy to proofread a letter, and if he does **** off the healer, maybe he gets the least priority when it comes time for healing, and if he goes way over the line, maybe he doesn't get a heal at all.
Sinis 02-13-08, 05:21 PM	i he wont stay behind and you do not want to kill him tie him up and leave him behind or use subdual damage to knock him out and leave him. pay someone to lock him up until 3 days after you leave even if he catches up with you as soon as he causes problems again repeat. then repeat as needed eventually he will get the idea and stop or roll a new character. "He wont stay behind" is not really valid. If the rest of the party leaves while he's asleep (he does sleep) he doesn't get to tag along. If the DM intervenes, explain that your characters are doing a good job of roleplaying by ditching the bastard, and that either he goes, or makes it more reasonable for the other characters to want to keep him around.
nivlac_calvin 02-13-08, 07:14 PM	Non. Lethal. Damage. To quote Comus "First, kill him in his sleep. Then, do something about his character." Hear hear! Here are some more choices A. Get the DM on your side and have the DM screw with his char. B. Beat him into unconsusness. C. Poison his food. D. All of the above.
Drackthor 02-13-08, 10:26 PM	B. Beat him into unconsusness. C. Poison his food. Then, do something about his character. ;)
daishi5 02-13-08, 11:04 PM	My two cents, we had a cleric of Pelor who would NOT SHUT UP about converting, because he was playing a zealot cleric. His first few responses to toning down the constant talking about pelor we got the same response, "i'm just roleplaying." My second try was something along the lines of "you are being very ______ annoying, we know your a zealot, we can all assume you keep doing that, but stop doing it all the time in real life. I think i was less polite, but were old gaming buddies, and it worked. So try just saying, we know your always insulting, but stop actually saying it and we can all assume your character continues to be a dick. That is if your character would not just "forget" to secure the other end of that climbing rope.
Minesril 02-14-08, 03:56 AM	Is there a reason that he's like this? Have you asked him his backstory, OOC? This could give you some really good roleplaying opportunities and ultimately resolve party conflicts too. Why would you need a willsave before attacking him?
Drackthor 02-14-08, 02:21 PM	Why would you need a willsave before attacking him? To see how long his sanity will hold for. :)
McPoyo 02-14-08, 04:24 PM	Lethal. Damage. Fixed :P