Post/Author/DateTime	Post
temparus2000 11-12-07, 04:16 PM	my character wants to hide as much as possible to get a surprise round as often as possible. Hide and move silent ranks are maxed, and the party wizard makes good use of invisibility (my sneak attack makes it worth it). My question: are there any items that can foil scent, and the various "senses" (tremorsense, lifesense, blindsense, etc.)? I'm sure there are, but i only have a DMG, not the magic item compendium. Any help would be appreciated.
thaylok 11-12-07, 09:07 PM	Remember Skill Focus as a feat (hide, move silently...). There should be items, in either Arms and Equipment or in Masters of the wild (if you can get them) that mask your scent. Like Doe Pee, Fox Pee, skunk musk (your companions won't like this one). Tell them you want to purchase some Troll Pee as a masking agent. I'm sure you'll not have many animals come in for a fight at night!!! As for tremor sense.. you need to fly. And, if you can't fly, you need a way to make yourself look lighter to monsters with tremor sense. That is what radar-absorbing and deflecting techniques do on aircraft and boats, they make the huge-plane look like a hummingbird. I'm not sure what items in MIC would do this. Except maybe for something to Reduce or Enlarge yourself (potions, rings, wands...). You can find (or make magic items) that mimic spells that make you invisible to darkvision. There is one spell that does that, but you are fully visible in normal light. Get that as a scroll, or potion that mimics the spell. Combine all of that with greater invisibility items (or just invisibility). Remember, when invisible, the tremor sense or other blind sense can act like detect evil.. detect magic and the like. They can only get them to a 5' square. Beyond that, it's 50/50 to actually hit. Combining darkness with the invisibility gives you a 20% chance on top of the 50% miss chance (rolled separately)
GraveDigger 11-13-07, 01:40 AM	The Elocater floats at lvl1 if you can get a dip into that class, or form of magical flying, also become ethereal, or have greater blink used on you. Greater blink allows you to chose when you are in the material plane or in the other so by the time you came upon them and blinked in it would be to late.
Grumman 11-13-07, 04:16 AM	There's a feat in Lords of Madness (the aberration book), which lets a character hide from scent, tremorsense and the like.
Identitystolen 11-13-07, 08:14 AM	There's a feat in Lords of Madness (the aberration book), which lets a character hide from scent, tremorsense and the like. If thats the feat I think you're talking about, isn't that only for blindsight? I've used it a couple of times with my rogues in the past.
Grumman 11-13-07, 09:23 AM	If thats the feat I think you're talking about, isn't that only for blindsight? I've used it a couple of times with my rogues in the past. Maybe it is, then. It was one of the other players who used it in our games, not me, so I could easily be misremembering.
setekh 11-13-07, 10:46 AM	Maybe it is, then. It was one of the other players who used it in our games, not me, so I could easily be misremembering. All creatures with Blindsight, Blindsense, scent and tremorsense are affected. And you can flank creatures with all around vision.
LSMFT 11-13-07, 10:47 AM	Darkstalker feat from LoM does cover blindsense, blindsight, scent, and tremorsense.
temparus2000 11-13-07, 02:56 PM	sounds like the dalkstalker feat is the way to go. Awesome, thanks.
Dei 11-13-07, 03:13 PM	sounds like the dalkstalker feat is the way to go. Awesome, thanks. Also look at the Shadowdancer or any other prestige class that provides Hide in Plain Sight, assassin/avenger is the only other one that springs to mind immediately. That combined with a ring of darkhidden (invisible to darkvision) and the darkstalker feat means that you'll become virtually impossible to detect. You can also get the Silent and Shadow enhancements on your armour or boots/cloak of elvenkind if you've got the item slots free. Both combinations will provide a +5 enhancement bonus to move silent and hide. Unfortunately they won't stack though.
Grumman 11-13-07, 04:13 PM	A wand of Blindness/Deafness or Glitterdust makes you invisible if they fail their save. ;)
temparus2000 11-13-07, 05:01 PM	Also look at the Shadowdancer or any other prestige class that provides Hide in Plain Sight, assassin/avenger is the only other one that springs to mind immediately. That combined with a ring of darkhidden (invisible to darkvision) and the darkstalker feat means that you'll become virtually impossible to detect. You can also get the Silent and Shadow enhancements on your armour or boots/cloak of elvenkind if you've got the item slots free. Both combinations will provide a +5 enhancement bonus to move silent and hide. Unfortunately they won't stack though. yeah, I'm a shadowdancer/rouge now with armor of greater shadow + greater silent moves. I'm pretty much impossible to detect with normal checks, that's why I needed something to foil scent and the various senses (Darn DM dosen't like me ambushing everything :) .)
BW0222 11-13-07, 07:03 PM	temparus2000, My question: are there any items that can foil scent, and the various "senses" (tremorsense, lifesense, blindsense, etc.)? I'm sure there are, but i only have a DMG, not the magic item compendium. Any help would be appreciated. Sure. Normal vision. Darkness is your friend in most cases. However, this requires that either you can see in the dark. Potions (or wands) of darkvision are great. Darkvision. Your best bet for this are invisibility, cover (moving around corners and stuff), or making your own concealment -- fog cloud, obscuring mist, etc. That later makes sneak attack harder if they move into the concealment, but it allows getting close without being seen and even helps in sniping. Scent. Hide from animals potions are cheap and easily defeat most animals - guard dogs for example. For other creatures it is it more difficult. You can carry smelling things around to drop in random places and/or scrolls of stinking cloud. You can also look at the wind direction and/or moving more quickly. Since most detection ranges are only 30' if you move 30' a round, you are likely next to things before scent has a chance to work. Also, as long as you don't get within 5' it is hard to pin-point someone with scent. Tremorsense. Potions of fly solve this quickly -- as do scrolls for your wizard. Levitate, airwalk, and others give similiar benifits. Blindsight. Many of these have limited range so moving quickly might help. Also many are based on sound so a silence spell on something you are carrying often negates it. Detect/Locate magic. Misdirection often causes these to give false readings. Many also require multiple rounds to pin-point you, so move around a lot. Distractions. Sometimes it is just easier to gain surprise by giving something else for them to worry about. Use a bag of tricks and send a badger in first. Wands of summon monster II are often useful -- fly a friendish bat in or something. By the time they realize that the creature isn't alone, you often have your surprise. In the case of scent, normal vision, etc. many folks stop concentrating on everything else and focus on the strange creature coming in. Ventriloquism causing a sound to come from a far hallway, dancing lights from under his bed, etc. Look for silent spell scrolls or wands. Plain sight surprise. Disquise yourself as someone using a hat of disquise and walk in without hiding. Ambush/Make them come to you. Don't go in the cave. Wait outside where you have good cover behind the rocks, where you can place skunk cabage around, and put some cans hanging from a tree 100 yards further along the trail. Wait until they are asleep. All the detection abilities in the world don't help if they are snoring. D-door, teleport, and similiar spells. Just drop in on them. Also, look for a few spells like clairvoyance/clairaudience, wizard eye, detect spells, discern living, etc. Often these allow you to detect foes before their senses can find you. These gives you some idea when to start applying some of these techniques and possibly some idea what measures to use. Finally, don't forget mundane ways to tell what is coming up -- tracking, prisoners, tavern rumors, etc.
temparus2000 11-14-07, 09:08 PM	temparus2000, Sure. Normal vision. Darkness is your friend in most cases. However, this requires that either you can see in the dark. Potions (or wands) of darkvision are great. Darkvision. Your best bet for this are invisibility, cover (moving around corners and stuff), or making your own concealment -- fog cloud, obscuring mist, etc. That later makes sneak attack harder if they move into the concealment, but it allows getting close without being seen and even helps in sniping. Scent. Hide from animals potions are cheap and easily defeat most animals - guard dogs for example. For other creatures it is it more difficult. You can carry smelling things around to drop in random places and/or scrolls of stinking cloud. You can also look at the wind direction and/or moving more quickly. Since most detection ranges are only 30' if you move 30' a round, you are likely next to things before scent has a chance to work. Also, as long as you don't get within 5' it is hard to pin-point someone with scent. Tremorsense. Potions of fly solve this quickly -- as do scrolls for your wizard. Levitate, airwalk, and others give similiar benifits. Blindsight. Many of these have limited range so moving quickly might help. Also many are based on sound so a silence spell on something you are carrying often negates it. Detect/Locate magic. Misdirection often causes these to give false readings. Many also require multiple rounds to pin-point you, so move around a lot. Distractions. Sometimes it is just easier to gain surprise by giving something else for them to worry about. Use a bag of tricks and send a badger in first. Wands of summon monster II are often useful -- fly a friendish bat in or something. By the time they realize that the creature isn't alone, you often have your surprise. In the case of scent, normal vision, etc. many folks stop concentrating on everything else and focus on the strange creature coming in. Ventriloquism causing a sound to come from a far hallway, dancing lights from under his bed, etc. Look for silent spell scrolls or wands. Plain sight surprise. Disquise yourself as someone using a hat of disquise and walk in without hiding. Ambush/Make them come to you. Don't go in the cave. Wait outside where you have good cover behind the rocks, where you can place skunk cabage around, and put some cans hanging from a tree 100 yards further along the trail. Wait until they are asleep. All the detection abilities in the world don't help if they are snoring. D-door, teleport, and similiar spells. Just drop in on them. Also, look for a few spells like clairvoyance/clairaudience, wizard eye, detect spells, discern living, etc. Often these allow you to detect foes before their senses can find you. These gives you some idea when to start applying some of these techniques and possibly some idea what measures to use. Finally, don't forget mundane ways to tell what is coming up -- tracking, prisoners, tavern rumors, etc. I appreciate the depth of this. Thanks
Belkar 11-15-07, 03:47 PM	These are all amazing suggestions... But you mentioned a magic item that could help? There is a goodie in the Magic Item Compendium. It's called a Ring of Vanishing and it is expensiiiiiiiive.... but wow. It can only be used three times a day. And a use "vanishes" you for two full rounds. While you are vanished, you act as if you are under the effects of greater invisibility and silence. In addition, you cannot be detected by tremorsense, blindsight, or scent. You are "vanished." The only way to spot you is with True Seeing or See Invis. My last campaign, the DM gave the rogue one at 14th level. Man he regretted that. ;)