Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GoofsterStud 12-13-06, 10:29 AM	Generally what would the reaction to the following be: A very charismatic social Celestial A very charismatic social Human A very charismatic social Fiend What do you think a normal towns reaction would be. More so is their anyway for the celestial to make his wings invisible and blend in?
High Octane 12-13-06, 10:37 AM	1. Like the pope just dropped by their little Catholic village for no reason. 2. "Have a beer on me" from the dudes, "Have a great night WITH me" from the chicks. 3. Like Adolf Hitler just dropped by their little Jewish village.
Mecha_Pope 12-13-06, 04:37 PM	Yeah, charisma affects how scary you are, so the feind would probibly make them soil themselves. The celestial wouldnt have to hide his wings, unless he hates it when people adore him.
UltimateReality 12-13-06, 06:58 PM	3. Like Adolf Hitler just dropped by their little Jewish village.Not necessarily. There can be a lot of "bad boy" glam around "evil". Really it depends on the outlook of the townsfolk. If they're good-aligned, celestial=awesome, fiend=bad! If they're evil-inclined, they're more likely to think of the fiend being "god-touched" or special in a good way. As for a middle-of-the-line neutral town, well, they probably know that celestials are supposed to be good and fiends are supposed to be bad, but depending on how cosmopolitan they are, they may range all the way from not recognizing his "heritage" at all, to not caring about it.
theotherdraxen 12-13-06, 07:10 PM	...not caring about it. I disagree here. A high-charisma fiend would be something to pay attention to unless he's in a village of fiends with higher charismas or a bunch of people with *really* low wisdom scores. Anyway, we (my group) had your two comparisons in one party: I was an Aasimar Marshal, and one of my companions was a Tiefling Warmage. The Aasimar was loved by the people, and went on to found a new branch of the military while achieving dramatic amounts of glory and success. The Tiefling was hated and had to cover up her markings. She had to keep her bloodline a secret from everyone, especially the Aasimar.
gojutremere 12-13-06, 09:49 PM	Depending on your DM and what kind of game you are playing either the feind or celestial could have problems. The older ravenloft sourcebook had something called "outcast rating" which increased your intimidation but reduced your other social skills. This mainly affected non-humans in the predominantly human raveloft setting. However, I dont think it would be too difficult to modify this sort of thing in some way to work in a different setting. Perhaps as follows: Celestial: +2 intimidation, -2 diplomacy vs. people who dont like celestials. +2 Diplomacy, +2 Bluff vs. People who do. and something similar for the feind template. I have no clue how balanced this would be, its just kind of off the top of my head. Best of luck working something out. Let me know how it goes, as I have been kicking around playing a game using outcast ratings soon.
GoofsterStud 12-14-06, 01:29 AM	Great news! Any suggestions on ways to hide the wings? Magically or not.
Newpaintbrush 12-14-06, 01:54 AM	Generally what would the reaction to the following be: A very charismatic social Celestial A very charismatic social Human A very charismatic social Fiend What do you think a normal towns reaction would be. More so is their anyway for the celestial to make his wings invisible and blend in? Charsima is force of personality and leadership ability. But what you are asking about is how being perceived as a celestial or a fiend is going to alter reactions. For a celestial, people are NOT going to be "zomg i luvluvluv u". Because a celestial might get them caught up in its battle against evil. Does someone REALLY want to abandon their crops and their wife and go off to fight and die in some stupid eternal war? That said, people are going to be more trusting of the celestial by virtue of the fact that the celestial's a celestial. For a fiend, people are naturally going to be distrustful, but if the fiend interacts to some degree with people, and it looks like the fiend doesn't have any immediately hostile intent, people will come around. People KNOW the fiend will probably kill them for their shoes, but a charismatic fiend is very persuasive. -- Here's a question for you - if you have a good buddy that's always asking to borrow five dollars, are you always going to give in? But if you have a robber that follows you around, who the police can't catch, that always robs you at gunpoint for five dollars, are you going to give in? On the other hand, if you havve a religious fanatic that says that you must contribute to the greater good for five dollars, who also can't be caught by police . . . See, there are a lot of ways it could play out.
High Octane 12-14-06, 12:39 PM	Charsima is force of personality Like Joseph Stalin, or Kennedy? Wait no thats a Cult of Personality. Still that song explains Charisma better than any song ever. Charisma is a measure of how much someones presence affects the atmosphere.
ChimericPhase 12-15-06, 12:20 AM	1. Like the pope just dropped by their little Catholic village for no reason. 2. "Have a beer on me" from the dudes, "Have a great night WITH me" from the chicks. 3. Like Adolf Hitler just dropped by their little Jewish village. Awesome. And really, #1 and #2 can be interchanged between the Celestial or the Fiend based on the general alignment of the village.
Amon_WinterfallIV 12-15-06, 09:00 PM	Generally what would the reaction to the following be: A very charismatic social Celestial A very charismatic social Human A very charismatic social Fiend What do you think a normal towns reaction would be?? Okay, let's call it Cha 20, just to tie down the numbers. Mechanically, this becomes a 25% advantage over an average person. No matter what happens, Cha 20 is going to be able to move people much more than an average sort. I like the idea of the Pope or Hitler stopping by a town, but it would be more complicated than that. View it more neutrally than that: A Leading Presidental Candidate comes to town. Their force of personality is probably on this scale. What they do in town is going to impact how people view them. A Cha 20 will have smaller difficulties (maybe even discounts) on many things they do, and even the fiend might be able to get neutral treatment of himself. Its when the character decides to do more demanding things that the lines get drawn. If a Cha 14 guy can successfully bed women, a Cha 20 is going to be doing it nearly at will. If a Cha 14 can inspire or motivate others, a Cha 20 is going to be darn good at it. But Cha 20 still isn't legendary, it's not going to be more charismatic than people we know IRL. More so is their anyway for the celestial to make his wings invisible and blend in? Yeah, simple 1st level Alter Self should do it, and a simple disguise check should suffice as well.
GoofsterStud 12-15-06, 09:58 PM	Thanks everyone for all your help. Great clarification before I start. :-)
Sildatorak 12-15-06, 10:07 PM	But Cha 20 still isn't legendary, it's not going to be more charismatic than people we know IRL. 20 charisma is only reachable by humans of level 8 or higher. Since we know that Al Gore is a level 10 vice president after 2 terms, it is fair to assume that a 20 would be legendary. Only the top half of a percent of people would even have a real shot at it, and only after years of working on it. Basically, 20 charisma is your Clinton, Kennedy, and Hitler level. Speaking of charismatic fiends, I had the dubious pleasure of meeting Pat Buchanan in his home once. The crazy crap that rolls out of his mouth sounds almost reasonable when he says it, and I'd peg him at no more than a 17 CHA. A fiend with a 20 charisma will either be able to inspire such terror that she has no trouble or convince people that she isn't like those other fiends they've heard so much about.
Alten_Freehands 12-15-06, 10:46 PM	A lot of great explanations here. All of them are right and still wrong at the same time. Mine will be the same though. Joe Commoner probably hasn't heard of either an Aasimar, or a Fiend, and he may or may not even believe that they exist. Whether or not he knows what they are and how they are percieved is based on their actions. Say Mr. LG Aasimar paladin comes into town and is trying to rally the town to train their commoners to help defend the town. While Mr CE Hafl-fiend blackguard says that the village should just relocate and abandon everything to live to fight another day. Now what Mr. Pally has to say is good and has great intentions it is also risky and foriegn to the average wheelwright.(random profession) Whereas leaving and starting over might appeal more to Joe. Now Jack(the Blackguard) wants the town to leave so he can search for a clue that might lead him to a piece of the regailia of might, is evil but it souds safer than fighting a horde of orcs. I know it's an extreme situation, some townsfolk will decide to do one or the other based on their own convictions, to those that agree with Pally Jack is a coward and a all that good stuff. While to those that agree with Jack see him as a saviour and Pally is trying to lead the village to it's death. I don't think I managed to explain it as well as I would have liked, but I think I got the idea of what I was shooting for out there.
Amon_WinterfallIV 12-16-06, 12:56 AM	20 charisma is only reachable by humans of level 8 or higher. Since we know that Al Gore is a level 10 vice president after 2 terms, it is fair to assume that a 20 would be legendary. Only the top half of a percent of people would even have a real shot at it, and only after years of working on it. Basically, 20 charisma is your Clinton, Kennedy, and Hitler level. I'd peg Clinton and Kennedy at 22 CHA, and Give Hitler 25 CHA. Here's how I view It: 18 CHA is the highest COMMON value of Charisma, all things equal, 1 in 216 people have 18 Charisma. I view scores 19-25 as "Extraordinary, but not Superhuman" So 20 Cha is possible but unlikely for humans--but not unheard of. The problem with using Al Gore as an example is that he's old, so he gets a +3 Charisma bonus. I'd just assume do it differently.