Fallen Paladin Ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fallen Paladin Ideas [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
wonderboy06
04-16-06, 06:52 PM What would make a Paladin turn from his god and accept the life of say a Blackguard? I'm thinking makeing a Paladin them at about 10th level trading in the Paladin levels for Blackguard. But what would promt this change? I seem to be at a loss for ideas, although I did wonder if mearly being confronted by an avitar of some sort of CN or Evil god and being asked to deffect would do it, or possably being confronted by the god itself. What do you guys think? Any other ideas on what would cause the sudden loss of faith would be hepful.
Auburn
04-16-06, 07:18 PM Things that might cause you to lose faith:

1. Seeing a respected member of your deity's clergy or paladins reveleaed to be an evil figure. More likely if this figure was a major reason the paladin adopted his faith or became a paladin.

2. Being placed in a situation where something the paladin views as unspeakable evil happens, but his deity and the church either don't seem to care or don't view it as evil.

3. This is more of a long term one, but he could simply be slowly convinced evil is the right way to go after weeks, months, or years of discussions with followers of an evil faith or after reading some evil holy book.
Auburn
04-16-06, 07:20 PM Or he could see some massive demonstration of an evil god's power, and just lose faith that anything could stand against that much less win against it.
TheChilliGod
04-16-06, 07:20 PM Well, the DM could help you out with this one, actually. (I'm assuming you already passed it by him)

Taint, a variant rule used in Unearthed Arcana, Oriental Adventures and Heroes of Horror, could be used as a first-off unwilling change to the evil side, gradually shifted to a willing change into evil, that you can make as descriptive as you want. This is the Kerrigan approach. (Kerrigan from Starcraft)

An NPC could come in, an evil guy on the radar, and your character may note how rich and powerful he is, with all his servants doing his every whim, and note a hint of envy in the blackguard-to-be. The NPC could give the paladin evil advice, disguised as advice on adventuring and stuff, and the paladin accepts it as regular adventuring style. This is the Anakin approach.

Just two approaches you could use.
Rhomphaia
04-16-06, 07:28 PM Play Neverwinter Nights. It is a bit of a spoiler, but it happens there in a very believable way if you take the time to go through all the dialogue.
Krug_the_smasher
04-16-06, 07:47 PM He could be defeated in combat by someone who is good, or someone who is evil. If it is the evil one, he will see that evil is superior/make his stronger, and he will follow that path. If it was a good person, he will see this as good turning their back on him, and he will want revenge.
CryoSilver
04-16-06, 08:41 PM He could just become jaded in his quest to fight evil.

First it's attacking evil without provocation: that's ok in some cases, sometimes pre-emptive strikes make good tactical sense.

Next it's not giving quarter to an incapacitated enemy; coup-de-gracing your foes.

Next it's not accepting surrender.

Then you become a Shoadowbane Inquisitor to make up for your probably-lacking paladin powers.

Then you slowly slide toward evil, until you hit it and start taking blackguard levels, still fighting evil, for the moment.
Mentality
04-16-06, 10:58 PM What I was thinking was play a zealous paladin that destroyed anything remotely evil, for that reason alone. When the authorities arrest you, and you lose your powers, have your character vow to destroy those who hinder him in his quest, and plead to any being to give you the power to do so (evil deity).
kelvinaw273
04-17-06, 07:08 AM What I was thinking was play a zealous paladin that destroyed anything remotely evil, for that reason alone. When the authorities arrest you, and you lose your powers, have your character vow to destroy those who hinder him in his quest, and plead to any being to give you the power to do so (evil deity).

Pride is the greatest cause of falling. Such a paladin may become prideful or zealous in his work, and turn to being a Smite-O-Matic paladin (it's evil, I smite it!), killing those who were otherwise innocent, killing neutrals who tried to stop him, slaying good who tried to reason with him ... he may have lost his powers only to be spoken to by a representative of 'a misunderstood power' or even have been granted power by another agency whose agenda he unwittingly furthered.

Now, here is the catch: The character believe that they are still lawful good. They have a demonic mount? It just looks terrible to represent his rightious wrath. Their minions torture and rape? they do it to people who are evil and deserve it. The people he is fighting are still evil (He does not know he is now detecting good ather than evil) because they would undermine his divine mission.

This kind of blackguard is a terrible foe because hey are geniune in their beliefs that they are the good guy and everyone else is evil.
ChaotikLawful
04-17-06, 08:45 AM kelvinaw273 has a very good idea, there. *Steals it for later use in his own campaign*
kelvinaw273
04-17-06, 11:31 AM kelvinaw273 has a very good idea, there. *Steals it for later use in his own campaign*

This is almost the example of Ehlana Faith-Hold in the Ravenloft realm of Nidala. I cannot claim to have originated the idea, although I too have stolen it for personal use ...
Lincoln Hills
04-17-06, 06:36 PM How to make a paladin into a blackguard? Oh, just follow a little of the "advice" you'll find on these very boards. ;) Before long you'll be incinerating nunneries, beating beggars to death... with other beggars, and shouting, "I'm still technically Lawful Good if you read the PHB description and look up all the words in that description in the dictionary, including "the"! Wheee!"

Sorry. I got a little burnt out on Paladin Morality Threads. Maybe I should stop reading 'em. ;)
sciencemile
04-17-06, 09:10 PM The Fighter for Good, trained to beleive that all Demons are evil, and to protect Humanity, they must be destroyed, is sent to stop some cultists from opening a gate to the Abyss. Upon reaching the lair of the cultists, he sees the cultists torturing thousands of Demons. Good and Evil turn upside-down for the Fighter for Good. He begins to question whether humans should be protected at all. Finally, he goes mad, and decides that the best way to prevent evil is to destroy all intelligent life in the world.

( If you can guess what show this is inspired from, you're cool. Hint: Dark Angel )
PurdueDave
04-17-06, 10:36 PM You could instead make it more of a subtle change. Basically the same person but driven by necessity to commit an evil act that clearly violated his code. Instead of getting atonement and such, have the character not regret the action and accept his fate, maybe bitterly but on some level happier with it. Something like Jaime Lannister from Song of Ice and Fire.
Mortecareus
04-18-06, 08:20 AM TheChilliGod mentioned Anakin; another Anakin approach would be for the character to need or want something so badly they're willing to deal with the devil (so to speak) to get it. In doing so, he ends up having to commit evil acts, and abandoning all he once stood for.

I'm also pretty sure the Shadowbane Inquisitor was DESIGNED for falling into being a Blackguard from.
Ralphius_Maximus
04-18-06, 09:11 AM You could always take the self-sacrifice approach. Have a Paladin enter willingly into the service of an evil entity to save the innocent souls of others. It's a nice poetic-sounding way to fall, and it gives some nice options for repentance/refusal to repent later on. What if you put him in a situation of being able to stand aside and allow others to kill his master? His Paladin personality/honour is still intact (and is keeping him from leaving), so he is bound to defend his master, even at the cost of his promised freedom. Nasty position to put a player into.
Morka
04-18-06, 11:37 AM - Force the paladin to choose between an evil act and a "lesser" evil act. The paladin should know who caused him to make this difficult choice. This nemesis then flee, and despite the orders, the paladin hunt him down. He then find an evil weapon that can be used to kill this nemesis. The paladin willingly grab the evil weapon, and kill the nemesis, only to see an evil outsider clapping his hands before the show. "Well, I guess you know what we should do next, no?"

- Have an entire city be under an unnatural disaster. The paladin is stuck in an house with his troups, and he knows everyone will die in the disaster. But a succubus appears to him, and tells him: "You will all die. Unless you sacrifice your companions, in this case I will allow you to survive. It's not an evil thing, they will die nevertheless..." Oh, by the way, the succubus cast Charm Person on him, and will help me undertake a crusade against "anything that is evil": elves, dwarves, fey creatures, centaurs, etc...

- I once created a human paladin with horns; his mother as an adventurer who was polymorphed into a sheep when she was pregnant. When he was young, the other child kept on beating him, and they enjoyed seeing him becoming enraged. This weakness could have made him a common brigand, but the paladin was lucky enough to have a cleric of Ilmater (LG god of Suffering) in his neighborhood, who taught him to endure the pain. Eventually, he stopped trying to defend himself, and the other kids began to respect him. He eventually became a paladin of Ilmater, enduring what pain the people was suffering. But a cleric of Loviatar (LE Goddess of Torture) attacked him in a subtle way: she tortured his friends[I]. That made him crazy, and freed his wrath...
wonderboy06
04-18-06, 08:22 PM :bump: Bump
metamind
04-18-06, 08:29 PM Star Wars III Revenge of The Sith. There, a perfect idea.
zerotkatama
04-18-06, 09:08 PM Also look to Warcraft 3's Prince Arthas, whom I suspect Morka was referring to as his/her first example.
infideli
04-19-06, 08:33 AM I think you need to say what the character is interested in, how much RP you plan to do, is he a big fighter that seeks honor through combat, is he a vile minion of some other evil... the shape of the character you want to play will tell you which background fits him best. The PC should emerge from a background that shapes him, or you should have a background that substantiates the character you are playing.

My one converted paladin was part of a famous planar adventuring team, working along with his father the archmage (epic). While in the Hells, the team came face-to-face with a dark goddes of unbearble beauty (think Galadriel with the ring x 78). The paladin was overwhelmed, fell in love, and became her thrall, abandoning all that he once fought for. Her beauty was a madness that plagued and consumed him. All of his adventuring after that was to aid her cause and return her to flesh among the realms of mortals.

He was adventuring because the old team was called by an evil god to go defeat the plans of yet another evil god.

He was utterly devoted to HER and insanely jealous, so he guarded his knowledge of her and spoke not her name to the unworthy. He was not... particularly cruel or vile, but he had absolutely no mercy or forgiveness for any being who stood even for a moment between him and the fulfillment of his goddess' will. He was not motivated to help innocents or harm them -unless they were overly vane- but once it was decided that certain actions had to be taken, he was true to his word of oath when sworn upon the unspoken name of his goddess.

She blessed him with golden armor, unearthly magesty, resolute defenses... kingdoms of the doomed in the nether worlds, riches to rule nations... but all he wanted was her.

G
wonderboy06
04-21-06, 06:21 PM :bump:
Doopliss
04-21-06, 07:06 PM :bump:overdoing it, a touch?
mlund
04-21-06, 07:14 PM It'll vary from character to character. Some characters don't have a personality flaw necessary for a sudden turn. They need to have their morals and ethics wittled away as their inner person is perverted and defiled.

A paladin who believes in the Lawful Good ideal and aligns with his deity because that deity aligns itself with what is Right can't be flipped all of the sudden without going completely insane.

A paladin who adheres to Lawful Good structure due to unquestioning devotion to his deity because he finds that deity to be worthy of that level of respect is much easier to flip quickly. When his perception of his deity and their shared relationship breaks down he is no longer anchored to Lawful Good structure. Lacking that he could easily go on an all-out ID binge and go Chaotic Evil.

The Detect-and-Smite paladin fits into the second category most of the time, and is easy to flip. He's all about how he's the white-hat and they are the black hats so he gets to kill them. That's almost always a sure path to hubris and self-centered thinking which can catapult you right into evil - especially Lawful Evil. A diabolical line of reasoning starts rationalizing "better" ways of destroying evil creatures and suddenly your fallen.

- Marty Lund
Hopeless
04-23-06, 01:05 PM About a year ago now i played in a greyhawk campaign where i ran a Halfling Sorceror. The guy who runs the Forgotten Realms campaign i'm still involved in (until he succeeds in killing off my character sorry Its the impression I've had for a while now) played a Paladin.
Okay when we caught the villain of the 1st scenario he tried to ride off with him back to Greyhawk deliberately ignoring the Mayor's right to have the villain sentenced and executed.
He later repented claiming he thought he had the right to do so (yeah right!).
We returned to Greyhawk with him and after smashing a Sect of iuz who had driven out the cleric of nerull we caught in the first scenario my halfling identified the magic items we found which consisted of a +1 silver plated Broadsword which i though was a Bane weapon, a ring of protection +1 and a Cloak of Elvenkind.
Now the full plate armoured Paladin grabbed the ring claiming nobody wanted it even though I openly offered it to eh Monk who was other than my charcter wearing no armour.
Heading north we travelled into a valley and found a lair of goblins, my character captured 2 of them with a sleep scroll only to have the paladin order his 2 half orc henchmen dangle them over the side whilst my character was talking to them. Their comrades started chucking stones at the Paladin and he had the pair thrown over the edge.
After the goblins were wiped out by 3 npc's my character found a lone survivor who once the Paladin thought she had told us all she knew he tried to kill over the objections of the 2 other characters there.
The goblin was chained and helpless, my halfling tried to lead her to safety only to have the Paladin race after us and cut her down from behind. He claims since she was evil he had a right to kill her and the DM agreed with him!
Unfortunately on other threads I've asked about this some say he's simply acting the part of the Paladin as he's supposed to be.
My comment involves categorically stating thats a load of rubbish and thats the polite response.
Yes I think he's doing this to become a Blackguard the problem how are we supposed to respond when we're relying on the DM defining whats right nd whats wrong?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wonderboy06 04-16-06, 06:52 PM	What would make a Paladin turn from his god and accept the life of say a Blackguard? I'm thinking makeing a Paladin them at about 10th level trading in the Paladin levels for Blackguard. But what would promt this change? I seem to be at a loss for ideas, although I did wonder if mearly being confronted by an avitar of some sort of CN or Evil god and being asked to deffect would do it, or possably being confronted by the god itself. What do you guys think? Any other ideas on what would cause the sudden loss of faith would be hepful.
Auburn 04-16-06, 07:18 PM	Things that might cause you to lose faith: 1. Seeing a respected member of your deity's clergy or paladins reveleaed to be an evil figure. More likely if this figure was a major reason the paladin adopted his faith or became a paladin. 2. Being placed in a situation where something the paladin views as unspeakable evil happens, but his deity and the church either don't seem to care or don't view it as evil. 3. This is more of a long term one, but he could simply be slowly convinced evil is the right way to go after weeks, months, or years of discussions with followers of an evil faith or after reading some evil holy book.
Auburn 04-16-06, 07:20 PM	Or he could see some massive demonstration of an evil god's power, and just lose faith that anything could stand against that much less win against it.
TheChilliGod 04-16-06, 07:20 PM	Well, the DM could help you out with this one, actually. (I'm assuming you already passed it by him) Taint, a variant rule used in Unearthed Arcana, Oriental Adventures and Heroes of Horror, could be used as a first-off unwilling change to the evil side, gradually shifted to a willing change into evil, that you can make as descriptive as you want. This is the Kerrigan approach. (Kerrigan from Starcraft) An NPC could come in, an evil guy on the radar, and your character may note how rich and powerful he is, with all his servants doing his every whim, and note a hint of envy in the blackguard-to-be. The NPC could give the paladin evil advice, disguised as advice on adventuring and stuff, and the paladin accepts it as regular adventuring style. This is the Anakin approach. Just two approaches you could use.
Rhomphaia 04-16-06, 07:28 PM	Play Neverwinter Nights. It is a bit of a spoiler, but it happens there in a very believable way if you take the time to go through all the dialogue.
Krug_the_smasher 04-16-06, 07:47 PM	He could be defeated in combat by someone who is good, or someone who is evil. If it is the evil one, he will see that evil is superior/make his stronger, and he will follow that path. If it was a good person, he will see this as good turning their back on him, and he will want revenge.
CryoSilver 04-16-06, 08:41 PM	He could just become jaded in his quest to fight evil. First it's attacking evil without provocation: that's ok in some cases, sometimes pre-emptive strikes make good tactical sense. Next it's not giving quarter to an incapacitated enemy; coup-de-gracing your foes. Next it's not accepting surrender. Then you become a Shoadowbane Inquisitor to make up for your probably-lacking paladin powers. Then you slowly slide toward evil, until you hit it and start taking blackguard levels, still fighting evil, for the moment.
Mentality 04-16-06, 10:58 PM	What I was thinking was play a zealous paladin that destroyed anything remotely evil, for that reason alone. When the authorities arrest you, and you lose your powers, have your character vow to destroy those who hinder him in his quest, and plead to any being to give you the power to do so (evil deity).
kelvinaw273 04-17-06, 07:08 AM	What I was thinking was play a zealous paladin that destroyed anything remotely evil, for that reason alone. When the authorities arrest you, and you lose your powers, have your character vow to destroy those who hinder him in his quest, and plead to any being to give you the power to do so (evil deity). Pride is the greatest cause of falling. Such a paladin may become prideful or zealous in his work, and turn to being a Smite-O-Matic paladin (it's evil, I smite it!), killing those who were otherwise innocent, killing neutrals who tried to stop him, slaying good who tried to reason with him ... he may have lost his powers only to be spoken to by a representative of 'a misunderstood power' or even have been granted power by another agency whose agenda he unwittingly furthered. Now, here is the catch: The character believe that they are still lawful good. They have a demonic mount? It just looks terrible to represent his rightious wrath. Their minions torture and rape? they do it to people who are evil and deserve it. The people he is fighting are still evil (He does not know he is now detecting good ather than evil) because they would undermine his divine mission. This kind of blackguard is a terrible foe because hey are geniune in their beliefs that they are the good guy and everyone else is evil.
ChaotikLawful 04-17-06, 08:45 AM	kelvinaw273 has a very good idea, there. Steals it for later use in his own campaign
kelvinaw273 04-17-06, 11:31 AM	kelvinaw273 has a very good idea, there. Steals it for later use in his own campaign This is almost the example of Ehlana Faith-Hold in the Ravenloft realm of Nidala. I cannot claim to have originated the idea, although I too have stolen it for personal use ...
Lincoln Hills 04-17-06, 06:36 PM	How to make a paladin into a blackguard? Oh, just follow a little of the "advice" you'll find on these very boards. ;) Before long you'll be incinerating nunneries, beating beggars to death... with other beggars, and shouting, "I'm still technically Lawful Good if you read the PHB description and look up all the words in that description in the dictionary, including "the"! Wheee!" Sorry. I got a little burnt out on Paladin Morality Threads. Maybe I should stop reading 'em. ;)
sciencemile 04-17-06, 09:10 PM	The Fighter for Good, trained to beleive that all Demons are evil, and to protect Humanity, they must be destroyed, is sent to stop some cultists from opening a gate to the Abyss. Upon reaching the lair of the cultists, he sees the cultists torturing thousands of Demons. Good and Evil turn upside-down for the Fighter for Good. He begins to question whether humans should be protected at all. Finally, he goes mad, and decides that the best way to prevent evil is to destroy all intelligent life in the world. ( If you can guess what show this is inspired from, you're cool. Hint: Dark Angel )
PurdueDave 04-17-06, 10:36 PM	You could instead make it more of a subtle change. Basically the same person but driven by necessity to commit an evil act that clearly violated his code. Instead of getting atonement and such, have the character not regret the action and accept his fate, maybe bitterly but on some level happier with it. Something like Jaime Lannister from Song of Ice and Fire.
Mortecareus 04-18-06, 08:20 AM	TheChilliGod mentioned Anakin; another Anakin approach would be for the character to need or want something so badly they're willing to deal with the devil (so to speak) to get it. In doing so, he ends up having to commit evil acts, and abandoning all he once stood for. I'm also pretty sure the Shadowbane Inquisitor was DESIGNED for falling into being a Blackguard from.
Ralphius_Maximus 04-18-06, 09:11 AM	You could always take the self-sacrifice approach. Have a Paladin enter willingly into the service of an evil entity to save the innocent souls of others. It's a nice poetic-sounding way to fall, and it gives some nice options for repentance/refusal to repent later on. What if you put him in a situation of being able to stand aside and allow others to kill his master? His Paladin personality/honour is still intact (and is keeping him from leaving), so he is bound to defend his master, even at the cost of his promised freedom. Nasty position to put a player into.
Morka 04-18-06, 11:37 AM	- Force the paladin to choose between an evil act and a "lesser" evil act. The paladin should know who caused him to make this difficult choice. This nemesis then flee, and despite the orders, the paladin hunt him down. He then find an evil weapon that can be used to kill this nemesis. The paladin willingly grab the evil weapon, and kill the nemesis, only to see an evil outsider clapping his hands before the show. "Well, I guess you know what we should do next, no?" - Have an entire city be under an unnatural disaster. The paladin is stuck in an house with his troups, and he knows everyone will die in the disaster. But a succubus appears to him, and tells him: "You will all die. Unless you sacrifice your companions, in this case I will allow you to survive. It's not an evil thing, they will die nevertheless..." Oh, by the way, the succubus cast Charm Person on him, and will help me undertake a crusade against "anything that is evil": elves, dwarves, fey creatures, centaurs, etc... - I once created a human paladin with horns; his mother as an adventurer who was polymorphed into a sheep when she was pregnant. When he was young, the other child kept on beating him, and they enjoyed seeing him becoming enraged. This weakness could have made him a common brigand, but the paladin was lucky enough to have a cleric of Ilmater (LG god of Suffering) in his neighborhood, who taught him to endure the pain. Eventually, he stopped trying to defend himself, and the other kids began to respect him. He eventually became a paladin of Ilmater, enduring what pain the people was suffering. But a cleric of Loviatar (LE Goddess of Torture) attacked him in a subtle way: she tortured his friends[I]. That made him crazy, and freed his wrath...
wonderboy06 04-18-06, 08:22 PM	:bump: Bump
metamind 04-18-06, 08:29 PM	Star Wars III Revenge of The Sith. There, a perfect idea.
zerotkatama 04-18-06, 09:08 PM	Also look to Warcraft 3's Prince Arthas, whom I suspect Morka was referring to as his/her first example.
infideli 04-19-06, 08:33 AM	I think you need to say what the character is interested in, how much RP you plan to do, is he a big fighter that seeks honor through combat, is he a vile minion of some other evil... the shape of the character you want to play will tell you which background fits him best. The PC should emerge from a background that shapes him, or you should have a background that substantiates the character you are playing. My one converted paladin was part of a famous planar adventuring team, working along with his father the archmage (epic). While in the Hells, the team came face-to-face with a dark goddes of unbearble beauty (think Galadriel with the ring x 78). The paladin was overwhelmed, fell in love, and became her thrall, abandoning all that he once fought for. Her beauty was a madness that plagued and consumed him. All of his adventuring after that was to aid her cause and return her to flesh among the realms of mortals. He was adventuring because the old team was called by an evil god to go defeat the plans of yet another evil god. He was utterly devoted to HER and insanely jealous, so he guarded his knowledge of her and spoke not her name to the unworthy. He was not... particularly cruel or vile, but he had absolutely no mercy or forgiveness for any being who stood even for a moment between him and the fulfillment of his goddess' will. He was not motivated to help innocents or harm them -unless they were overly vane- but once it was decided that certain actions had to be taken, he was true to his word of oath when sworn upon the unspoken name of his goddess. She blessed him with golden armor, unearthly magesty, resolute defenses... kingdoms of the doomed in the nether worlds, riches to rule nations... but all he wanted was her. G
wonderboy06 04-21-06, 06:21 PM	:bump:
Doopliss 04-21-06, 07:06 PM	:bump:overdoing it, a touch?
mlund 04-21-06, 07:14 PM	It'll vary from character to character. Some characters don't have a personality flaw necessary for a sudden turn. They need to have their morals and ethics wittled away as their inner person is perverted and defiled. A paladin who believes in the Lawful Good ideal and aligns with his deity because that deity aligns itself with what is Right can't be flipped all of the sudden without going completely insane. A paladin who adheres to Lawful Good structure due to unquestioning devotion to his deity because he finds that deity to be worthy of that level of respect is much easier to flip quickly. When his perception of his deity and their shared relationship breaks down he is no longer anchored to Lawful Good structure. Lacking that he could easily go on an all-out ID binge and go Chaotic Evil. The Detect-and-Smite paladin fits into the second category most of the time, and is easy to flip. He's all about how he's the white-hat and they are the black hats so he gets to kill them. That's almost always a sure path to hubris and self-centered thinking which can catapult you right into evil - especially Lawful Evil. A diabolical line of reasoning starts rationalizing "better" ways of destroying evil creatures and suddenly your fallen. - Marty Lund
Hopeless 04-23-06, 01:05 PM	About a year ago now i played in a greyhawk campaign where i ran a Halfling Sorceror. The guy who runs the Forgotten Realms campaign i'm still involved in (until he succeeds in killing off my character sorry Its the impression I've had for a while now) played a Paladin. Okay when we caught the villain of the 1st scenario he tried to ride off with him back to Greyhawk deliberately ignoring the Mayor's right to have the villain sentenced and executed. He later repented claiming he thought he had the right to do so (yeah right!). We returned to Greyhawk with him and after smashing a Sect of iuz who had driven out the cleric of nerull we caught in the first scenario my halfling identified the magic items we found which consisted of a +1 silver plated Broadsword which i though was a Bane weapon, a ring of protection +1 and a Cloak of Elvenkind. Now the full plate armoured Paladin grabbed the ring claiming nobody wanted it even though I openly offered it to eh Monk who was other than my charcter wearing no armour. Heading north we travelled into a valley and found a lair of goblins, my character captured 2 of them with a sleep scroll only to have the paladin order his 2 half orc henchmen dangle them over the side whilst my character was talking to them. Their comrades started chucking stones at the Paladin and he had the pair thrown over the edge. After the goblins were wiped out by 3 npc's my character found a lone survivor who once the Paladin thought she had told us all she knew he tried to kill over the objections of the 2 other characters there. The goblin was chained and helpless, my halfling tried to lead her to safety only to have the Paladin race after us and cut her down from behind. He claims since she was evil he had a right to kill her and the DM agreed with him! Unfortunately on other threads I've asked about this some say he's simply acting the part of the Paladin as he's supposed to be. My comment involves categorically stating thats a load of rubbish and thats the polite response. Yes I think he's doing this to become a Blackguard the problem how are we supposed to respond when we're relying on the DM defining whats right nd whats wrong?