Familiar speech [Archive] - Wizards Community

Familiar speech [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tharivol_Nailo
03-03-07, 10:53 AM My familiar has an intelligence score of 12. Does this mean that coupled with the fact that a familiar is a magical beast does it mean it can speak? If so would it know languages equal to its int bonus?
Karish
03-03-07, 11:10 AM It is possible that it is capable of speech. Remember, though, that some things may be intelligent, but given their education or their lives, may never learn a language except one they might possibly invent for themselves.

If your familiar has been educated to speak and has the proper kind of vocal chords/etc to be able to facilitate the right sounds, I can see it knowing a language or two. Basically, a bear would have to be magically altered to speak, but a raven would not. Magical beasts are likely to be able to facilitate speech.

Teach it one language plus one for every point of intelligence bonus. These would, however, be things that would take time and effort to teach.
Tharivol_Nailo
03-03-07, 11:53 AM If my familiar was an eagle could I teach it to speak?
Karish
03-03-07, 12:04 PM If my familiar was an eagle could I teach it to speak?

This depends. A standard, non-magical or unenchanted eagle would possibly be able to speak Auran, the tongue of air races, since it is likely there is an avian dialect of some kind.

However, casting tongues and permanency will make it able to speak and comprehend all languages. In addition, it might be possible to create an enchantment that will allow it to be transmuted in a way, giving it a different set of vocal abilities, that would allow it to communicate using the sounds of other tongues.
Tharivol_Nailo
03-03-07, 12:09 PM The tongues suggestion brings up another question. I had permanency and tongues casted on my self. wouldn't it also affect my familiar?
Karish
03-03-07, 12:13 PM No, but you could recast it to affect the familiar.
Tharivol_Nailo
03-03-07, 12:21 PM Ok I will do that thank you. My character has the telepathy ability. Can I speak telepathically with my familiar?
Karish
03-03-07, 12:24 PM I would presume your bird would have the cognitive ability to think on a level that wopuld be useful. The telepathy, mixed with the empathic link you already have, would probably allow you to communicate as though you were talking to a regular person with a 12 Int.
Tharivol_Nailo
03-03-07, 12:34 PM Thank you for the help this cleared upo alot.
Fireclave
03-03-07, 12:42 PM Tongues is a spell that can only be made permanent in regards to yourself. Therefore, your familiar would have to be the one casting permanency to make the effect permanent on itself.

The Share Spell familiar ability would still work and grant your familiar Tongues, but...
Share Spells
...
If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires.
...
So even if your use Share Spells to share the Permanency spell, it would stop affect your familiar as soon as it moves away from you because Permanency is not instantaneous and your familiar did not cast it on itself. However, a Ring of Spell Storing should get you around this restriction, but beware of Dispel Magic.

As for your eagle being able to speak learning how to speak, that's ultimately a AYD (Ask Your DM) question. Your familiar, by the RAW, does not gain a language unless it's a raven. However, your familiar comes into your service, its no longer a animal. It becomes a magical beast.

Being a magical beast does not automatically grant your familiar a language, or even proper vocal cords to speak with. Several many magical beast, such as the chimera and giant eagles, while smart enough to learn a language, do not speak any languages themselves. And the Awaken Animal spell makes a animal a magical beast, but at the same time explicitly grant creature the ability to speak.

You may be able to convince your DM to let your familiar learn how to speak a language if you pick up some ranks in Speak Language. Since a familiar has the same skill ranks that you do, it also knows those languages as well. Your familiar would at least be able to read those languages and, depending on how your DM feels about magical beast having proper vocal cords due to their magical nature, your familiar may be able to speak those languages as well.

You might be interested in the prc in my sig. Familiar speech is one of the first abilities you get.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: If your goal is just to be able to speak with your familiar, note that your familiar gain the Speak with Master ability at 5th level. However, this "language" only works between the master and familiar.
mearrin69
03-03-07, 12:49 PM FYI, if your familiar has an Int of 12 (which would make you an 13th-14th level caster) it should already be able to speak to you and animals of its own kind. You also already have empathic link.

I'm sure you knew but thought I would mention it in case you didn't (see P52-53 of PHB). Wasn't sure if you were trying to have it be able to talk to others or what. My wizard keeps his rat well hidden most of the time - so she doesn't need to talk to anyone else. :)
M
lasseram
03-03-07, 06:09 PM If your familiar has been educated to speak and has the proper kind of vocal chords/etc to be able to facilitate the right sounds, I can see it knowing a language or two. Basically, a bear would have to be magically altered to speak, but a raven would not.

Perhaps I am being a bit pedantic here, but a raven cannot normally speak a language unless it is someone's familiar. Which is a magical alteration. A parrot can be "taught" certain phrases, but doesn't speak a language; it doesn't know when to use which words.

As Mearrin stated, your eagle can speak to you in your own "special language" (in my opinion a language that sounds "eagleish"), but unless your familiar is a raven or an advanced familiar that can speak, you can't teach the bird to speak "normal languages".

However, your familiar can understand languages.
As this article (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050906a) from Rules of the Game (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050906a) says, your familiar will understand one language from it's original INT 6. As other PCs it will not learn additional languages due to an increase in intelligence.
But the article does not address the question whether a familiar gains the same languages the master uses skill points to get. According to the same article and the PHB, the familiar is considered trained in all skills where the master has ranks. So technically, the familiar would know the languages where the master has invested skill points, but not the ones the master already knows due to race or high INT score. For example would an elf wizard have a familiar that cannot speak elvish. Because the elf can't invest skill points in a language he already knows. As the familiar and his master in some sense (according to the PHB) can be viewed as practically one being, I would say that it is fair that the familiar should know all the master's languages, as if the master had invested skill points in them.
But the familiar would still not be able to speak the same languages it understands due to lack of vocal chords.
The raven has this special ability to make up for giving the master the poor +3 to appraise checks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tharivol_Nailo 03-03-07, 10:53 AM	My familiar has an intelligence score of 12. Does this mean that coupled with the fact that a familiar is a magical beast does it mean it can speak? If so would it know languages equal to its int bonus?
Karish 03-03-07, 11:10 AM	It is possible that it is capable of speech. Remember, though, that some things may be intelligent, but given their education or their lives, may never learn a language except one they might possibly invent for themselves. If your familiar has been educated to speak and has the proper kind of vocal chords/etc to be able to facilitate the right sounds, I can see it knowing a language or two. Basically, a bear would have to be magically altered to speak, but a raven would not. Magical beasts are likely to be able to facilitate speech. Teach it one language plus one for every point of intelligence bonus. These would, however, be things that would take time and effort to teach.
Tharivol_Nailo 03-03-07, 11:53 AM	If my familiar was an eagle could I teach it to speak?
Karish 03-03-07, 12:04 PM	If my familiar was an eagle could I teach it to speak? This depends. A standard, non-magical or unenchanted eagle would possibly be able to speak Auran, the tongue of air races, since it is likely there is an avian dialect of some kind. However, casting tongues and permanency will make it able to speak and comprehend all languages. In addition, it might be possible to create an enchantment that will allow it to be transmuted in a way, giving it a different set of vocal abilities, that would allow it to communicate using the sounds of other tongues.
Tharivol_Nailo 03-03-07, 12:09 PM	The tongues suggestion brings up another question. I had permanency and tongues casted on my self. wouldn't it also affect my familiar?
Karish 03-03-07, 12:13 PM	No, but you could recast it to affect the familiar.
Tharivol_Nailo 03-03-07, 12:21 PM	Ok I will do that thank you. My character has the telepathy ability. Can I speak telepathically with my familiar?
Karish 03-03-07, 12:24 PM	I would presume your bird would have the cognitive ability to think on a level that wopuld be useful. The telepathy, mixed with the empathic link you already have, would probably allow you to communicate as though you were talking to a regular person with a 12 Int.
Tharivol_Nailo 03-03-07, 12:34 PM	Thank you for the help this cleared upo alot.
Fireclave 03-03-07, 12:42 PM	Tongues is a spell that can only be made permanent in regards to yourself. Therefore, your familiar would have to be the one casting permanency to make the effect permanent on itself. The Share Spell familiar ability would still work and grant your familiar Tongues, but... Share Spells ... If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the familiar if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the familiar again even if it returns to the master before the duration expires. ... So even if your use Share Spells to share the Permanency spell, it would stop affect your familiar as soon as it moves away from you because Permanency is not instantaneous and your familiar did not cast it on itself. However, a Ring of Spell Storing should get you around this restriction, but beware of Dispel Magic. As for your eagle being able to speak learning how to speak, that's ultimately a AYD (Ask Your DM) question. Your familiar, by the RAW, does not gain a language unless it's a raven. However, your familiar comes into your service, its no longer a animal. It becomes a magical beast. Being a magical beast does not automatically grant your familiar a language, or even proper vocal cords to speak with. Several many magical beast, such as the chimera and giant eagles, while smart enough to learn a language, do not speak any languages themselves. And the Awaken Animal spell makes a animal a magical beast, but at the same time explicitly grant creature the ability to speak. You may be able to convince your DM to let your familiar learn how to speak a language if you pick up some ranks in Speak Language. Since a familiar has the same skill ranks that you do, it also knows those languages as well. Your familiar would at least be able to read those languages and, depending on how your DM feels about magical beast having proper vocal cords due to their magical nature, your familiar may be able to speak those languages as well. You might be interested in the prc in my sig. Familiar speech is one of the first abilities you get. Hope that helps. EDIT: If your goal is just to be able to speak with your familiar, note that your familiar gain the Speak with Master ability at 5th level. However, this "language" only works between the master and familiar.
mearrin69 03-03-07, 12:49 PM	FYI, if your familiar has an Int of 12 (which would make you an 13th-14th level caster) it should already be able to speak to you and animals of its own kind. You also already have empathic link. I'm sure you knew but thought I would mention it in case you didn't (see P52-53 of PHB). Wasn't sure if you were trying to have it be able to talk to others or what. My wizard keeps his rat well hidden most of the time - so she doesn't need to talk to anyone else. :) M
lasseram 03-03-07, 06:09 PM	If your familiar has been educated to speak and has the proper kind of vocal chords/etc to be able to facilitate the right sounds, I can see it knowing a language or two. Basically, a bear would have to be magically altered to speak, but a raven would not. Perhaps I am being a bit pedantic here, but a raven cannot normally speak a language unless it is someone's familiar. Which is a magical alteration. A parrot can be "taught" certain phrases, but doesn't speak a language; it doesn't know when to use which words. As Mearrin stated, your eagle can speak to you in your own "special language" (in my opinion a language that sounds "eagleish"), but unless your familiar is a raven or an advanced familiar that can speak, you can't teach the bird to speak "normal languages". However, your familiar can understand languages. As this article (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050906a) from Rules of the Game (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050906a) says, your familiar will understand one language from it's original INT 6. As other PCs it will not learn additional languages due to an increase in intelligence. But the article does not address the question whether a familiar gains the same languages the master uses skill points to get. According to the same article and the PHB, the familiar is considered trained in all skills where the master has ranks. So technically, the familiar would know the languages where the master has invested skill points, but not the ones the master already knows due to race or high INT score. For example would an elf wizard have a familiar that cannot speak elvish. Because the elf can't invest skill points in a language he already knows. As the familiar and his master in some sense (according to the PHB) can be viewed as practically one being, I would say that it is fair that the familiar should know all the master's languages, as if the master had invested skill points in them. But the familiar would still not be able to speak the same languages it understands due to lack of vocal chords. The raven has this special ability to make up for giving the master the poor +3 to appraise checks.