Family and Dungeoneering [Archive] - Wizards Community

Family and Dungeoneering [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rathje
06-02-05, 01:26 AM Alrighty, this will (probably) be a long one.

Nearly two years ago, I stumbled across Returner Games and got into the Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game. This was my first time role-playing. I was the Game Master (before even playing a game). I read all the concepts and figured out what to do. My first session wasn't the greatest, but I've seen much worse. Unfortunately, this small, tabletop-starved town provided me with a huge amount of players. Currently, if I start a game, I have to hide it from other people until we get into it and we can justify not allowing more people.

Now, as I designed my Human Blue Mage to understand how character creation worked, my younger brother watched. He, too, wished to experience role-playing. This lead to guilting me, whining to my parents, and other such means to invade my sessions. Recently, he whined until he could join my older sister (eight years his elder) and her friends in their 2nd Edition campaign. They invited her to come in as a Wizard. My brother is playing the Wizard and she's a Ranger.

After a few events that occurred a few months ago, I abandoned Final Fantasy (at least for a while, I may return to it). It was then that I discovered the System Reference Document. My main reason for not playing D&D was because of money. Final Fantasy was free. Now this new game was, too. Thus, the D&D adventures were born.

Like any good Dungeon Master, I preferred to purchase the books instead of using the System Reference Document. Don't get me wrong, the SRD was wonderful. However, the ability to have a session without a computer on hand was something I wanted. Around May 5th, my birthday, I got the Dungeon Master's Guide. Yesterday, May 31st, I bought the Player's Handbook. All that's left is the Monster Manual for the big three, then I can look into the Complete _____.

I'm planning an adventure based on the character being brigands (though they won't be after the brigand leader is killed about half an hour into the first session). My players are slowly but surely making their character. But none of that really matters. My brother is also planning an adventure. He's a very poor Dungeon Master. I've played under him before. For those familiar with the term, he's a YAGD, or "You're All Gonna' Die." Even if you aren't familiar with it, you can probably guess what it means. He denies it continually, but he can't stand to have his players get away with anything.

Yeah, we've pulled some pretty weird stunts, but it was all completely within the rules and completely thought out. He gave me a group of goblins trapped in a hole, I pick 'em off with a ranged weapon. He tells us the man hired to beat us to a pulp was paid handsomely and his money is at his home, we break into his home and steal the money in return for him trying to basically kill us (which actually resulted in killing his wife and kids, but it was in character and basically an accident).

In addition to his lack of skills, I quite dislike him on a personal level. I love him as a brother, but I can't stand him as a person. He exploits whatever he can to get out of school and other things. I'm not going to get into that part too much, but I just wanted to point out that this isn't just a game-play thing.

As I mentioned above, I just got a Player's Handbook. The night I got it, I was planning on bringing it to my girlfriend's house so we could go through it and find out what's cool. He asks me if he could take a look at it that night. Fine. My girlfriend (who already loathes him) isn't impressed, but she accepts it gracefully. Today, he comes up to me and asks, "Can I borrow your Player's Handbook for my session tomorrow?"

I gave an obviously hesitant reply, but it was a reply that contained an "I guess so." His response (in a borderline-angry tone): "You knew I wanted to use it when you bought it!" Then he kind of stomped off down the hallway.

In all honesty, I'd love to antagonize him. However, I'd like to do it in a way that would look more like an accident. As well, my players need to make their characters for my campaign. He sprung this on my the day before and acted like the book may as well be his.

Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can deal with this? I'd prefer something diplomatic, but I'll take any advice.

Thanks in advance,
-Rathje

EDIT: My girlfriend reminded me, he also tends to ruin games he plays in. This was demonstrated once again just this Sunday as our all-Orc party just stopped as he was displeased. We were infiltrating an opposing Orc group's encampment. We killed the sleeping guards and prepared to face their leader, who was awake in his tent. The Magician fired off a fireball. It exploded in the tent. The leader only got some sparks in his hair and on his shoulders, which he quickly extinguished and then charged at us. We responded with resounding cheers as we heard the fireball go off (before realizing the leader was unharmed). Unfortunately for us, we had just been acting in character a lot, and we didn't specify if our cheers were in or out of character (they were supposed to be OOC).

Therefore, we lost initiative due to our distraction and the boss only suffered a new haircut. My brother was furious. My girlfriend and I tried to salvage the game by taking a bit more time to describe the combat, but when we offered him the opportunity in a wording like this:

My brother: "I use Power Strike." (Power Strike was his Warrior's main ability)
Me: "You want to maybe describe your action or something?"
My brother: "No."

That was it. Session over. My girlfriend, who was Game Mastering, packed up the dice. As I said, she doesn't like my brother and was reluctant to play with him, but did anyway. This pushed her limit and it was over. It was at a family gathering with my cousins. My brother whined to my parents about something, so we went home about ten minutes after (though we could've mingled with my cousins, such as a week-old one).
Yruc
06-02-05, 01:42 AM 30 bucks, Tell him to go mow a couple neighbor's lawns and buy his own. Tell him to save his allowance and buy his own copy, Let him copy / xerox / scanner the relavant sections he needs at his cost. Tell him to ask santa for a copy or a copy for his birthday.
Dragonsblood
06-02-05, 05:50 AM Why don't you just tell your brother to leave you alone? Do your parents make you take him with you? Can you move out?
DonGnocci
06-02-05, 07:20 AM @Rathje: Well... at first... If your parents don't discipline your brother to behave in a civilized manner... hmm...
My hints:
Tell him it's YOUR PHB, not HIS.
Tell him, that he is NOT wanted in your gaming group.
Don't play with people you don't like.
If he does not understand that... and starts crying and whinin' and yelling...
Give him a slap in the face ... so he has a reason to cry. Plain&simple.
And he if he asks why, slap him again. But HARDER.

[quote: "I gave an obviously hesitant reply, but it was a reply that contained an "I guess so." His response (in a borderline-angry tone): "You knew I wanted to use it when you bought it!" Then he kind of stomped off down the hallway."
I guess at that point i would have TOLD your brother that it is not HIS book, and he should get a f****** copy himself, if he wants to play D&D...If he'd reply in an inappropriate manner, i'd slap him, cause he seems to deserve that. Seems like your brother is a bit spoiled, eh? But you DID borrow him the copy though you wanted to browse it with your girlfriend that night?]
fallabel
06-02-05, 09:04 AM Has anyone noticed that a large number of the problems brought up on this board deal with folks not knowing how to handle OOG situations? More specifically, it seems like they don't know how to handle difficult social situations. (See this thread, all of the "How should I talk to my DM..." threads, etc.)
Thoronmir
06-02-05, 10:16 AM Has anyone noticed that a large number of the problems brought up on this board deal with folks not knowing how to handle OOG situations? More specifically, it seems like they don't know how to handle difficult social situations. (See this thread, all of the "How should I talk to my DM..." threads, etc.)While I agree with your sentiment, I’m not too concerned when someone asks for advice on how to confront their DM, players, whatever with a problem. I’m in my early 40s … the OP sounds much younger. I’m willing to bet that I’ve learned more than he has when it comes to social interaction (I’m certain I’ve made enough mistakes over the years to fill a treatise). Our handicap, however, is that no mere post can really educate us as to all of the interpersonal dynamics at play. For one thing, such a post (regardless of its length) is almost always skewed by the poster’s perspective and biases. For another, we are given a sliver of a glimpse of how the parties interact … hardly enough information on which to base detailed counsel. So, in the end, responsible members of the forum are limited to offering generalized “common sense” suggestions.

Personally, I take umbrage at posts requesting “help” when the OP has failed to even try to discuss his problem with the people involved before seeking advice from an anonymous group of strangers who are ill-equipped to prescribe a remedy for the OP’s situation. They come here to solicit opinions regarding “How to Talk to My DM” as if the person’s status as a DM requires some new approach to communication. If you were to read all of those types of threads, you would discover that most of the useful advice boils down to the very same advice we would offer if the thread were titled “How to Talk to My Mailman” or “How to Talk to My Dentist” … because the same rules apply.

So I’m clear, I’m not ranting about posts asking for technical advice on a DM’s ruling. This is obviously the proper forum for such issues (though I’d still rather see more OPs talk to their DMs before posting here). I realize that some people prefer to collect counter-arguments before they confront the DM (though, in my experience, it’s usually not necessary).

The issues Rathje describes have nothing to do with D&D. You could replace Players Handbook with any other item (a DVD, a CD, a videogame, etc.) and Rathje would be in the same position. He doesn’t like his brother, doesn’t want his brother borrowing his things, and doesn’t want his brother “ruining” his fun. My brother and I felt the same way about each other when we were young, but we outgrew such feelings as we reached adulthood. The brother who “despised” me at 15 asked me to be Godfather to his son at 30.

Rathje, the best advice I can offer is to tell your brother he’s no longer welcome at the game. Be prepared for him to protest to your parents (I don’t know why, but parents seem to want their children to play together … I think they fear a sense of “exclusion” will scar the child). As for your books, if either of them was a gift from your parents, be prepared to be ordered to “share” with your brother (again, I don’t know why, but “sharing” seems to be a point of emphasis with most parents).

So, as with all such threads, my advice boils down to a few common-sense points … tell the person involved exactly what’s bothering you and be prepared to give examples … tell them how you would like to resolve the situation and be prepared to consider alternative solutions … be direct, but polite … do not personalize the issues too much.

Good luck.
fallabel
06-02-05, 10:46 AM Personally, I take umbrage at posts requesting “help” when the OP has failed to even try to discuss his problem with the people involved before seeking advice from an anonymous group of strangers who are ill-equipped to prescribe a remedy for the OP’s situation. They come here to solicit opinions regarding “How to Talk to My DM” as if the person’s status as a DM requires some new approach to communication. If you were to read all of those types of threads, you would discover that most of the useful advice boils down to the very same advice we would offer if the thread were titled “How to Talk to My Mailman” or “How to Talk to My Dentist” … because the same rules apply.

The issues Rathje describes have nothing to do with D&D. You could replace Players Handbook with any other item (a DVD, a CD, a videogame, etc.) and Rathje would be in the same position.

Those two points fully describe the source of my frustration. Summed up shortly, I often desire to say, "He's your friend, talk to him."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rathje 06-02-05, 01:26 AM	Alrighty, this will (probably) be a long one. Nearly two years ago, I stumbled across Returner Games and got into the Final Fantasy Role-Playing Game. This was my first time role-playing. I was the Game Master (before even playing a game). I read all the concepts and figured out what to do. My first session wasn't the greatest, but I've seen much worse. Unfortunately, this small, tabletop-starved town provided me with a huge amount of players. Currently, if I start a game, I have to hide it from other people until we get into it and we can justify not allowing more people. Now, as I designed my Human Blue Mage to understand how character creation worked, my younger brother watched. He, too, wished to experience role-playing. This lead to guilting me, whining to my parents, and other such means to invade my sessions. Recently, he whined until he could join my older sister (eight years his elder) and her friends in their 2nd Edition campaign. They invited her to come in as a Wizard. My brother is playing the Wizard and she's a Ranger. After a few events that occurred a few months ago, I abandoned Final Fantasy (at least for a while, I may return to it). It was then that I discovered the System Reference Document. My main reason for not playing D&D was because of money. Final Fantasy was free. Now this new game was, too. Thus, the D&D adventures were born. Like any good Dungeon Master, I preferred to purchase the books instead of using the System Reference Document. Don't get me wrong, the SRD was wonderful. However, the ability to have a session without a computer on hand was something I wanted. Around May 5th, my birthday, I got the Dungeon Master's Guide. Yesterday, May 31st, I bought the Player's Handbook. All that's left is the Monster Manual for the big three, then I can look into the Complete _____. I'm planning an adventure based on the character being brigands (though they won't be after the brigand leader is killed about half an hour into the first session). My players are slowly but surely making their character. But none of that really matters. My brother is also planning an adventure. He's a very poor Dungeon Master. I've played under him before. For those familiar with the term, he's a YAGD, or "You're All Gonna' Die." Even if you aren't familiar with it, you can probably guess what it means. He denies it continually, but he can't stand to have his players get away with anything. Yeah, we've pulled some pretty weird stunts, but it was all completely within the rules and completely thought out. He gave me a group of goblins trapped in a hole, I pick 'em off with a ranged weapon. He tells us the man hired to beat us to a pulp was paid handsomely and his money is at his home, we break into his home and steal the money in return for him trying to basically kill us (which actually resulted in killing his wife and kids, but it was in character and basically an accident). In addition to his lack of skills, I quite dislike him on a personal level. I love him as a brother, but I can't stand him as a person. He exploits whatever he can to get out of school and other things. I'm not going to get into that part too much, but I just wanted to point out that this isn't just a game-play thing. As I mentioned above, I just got a Player's Handbook. The night I got it, I was planning on bringing it to my girlfriend's house so we could go through it and find out what's cool. He asks me if he could take a look at it that night. Fine. My girlfriend (who already loathes him) isn't impressed, but she accepts it gracefully. Today, he comes up to me and asks, "Can I borrow your Player's Handbook for my session tomorrow?" I gave an obviously hesitant reply, but it was a reply that contained an "I guess so." His response (in a borderline-angry tone): "You knew I wanted to use it when you bought it!" Then he kind of stomped off down the hallway. In all honesty, I'd love to antagonize him. However, I'd like to do it in a way that would look more like an accident. As well, my players need to make their characters for my campaign. He sprung this on my the day before and acted like the book may as well be his. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I can deal with this? I'd prefer something diplomatic, but I'll take any advice. Thanks in advance, -Rathje EDIT: My girlfriend reminded me, he also tends to ruin games he plays in. This was demonstrated once again just this Sunday as our all-Orc party just stopped as he was displeased. We were infiltrating an opposing Orc group's encampment. We killed the sleeping guards and prepared to face their leader, who was awake in his tent. The Magician fired off a fireball. It exploded in the tent. The leader only got some sparks in his hair and on his shoulders, which he quickly extinguished and then charged at us. We responded with resounding cheers as we heard the fireball go off (before realizing the leader was unharmed). Unfortunately for us, we had just been acting in character a lot, and we didn't specify if our cheers were in or out of character (they were supposed to be OOC). Therefore, we lost initiative due to our distraction and the boss only suffered a new haircut. My brother was furious. My girlfriend and I tried to salvage the game by taking a bit more time to describe the combat, but when we offered him the opportunity in a wording like this: My brother: "I use Power Strike." (Power Strike was his Warrior's main ability) Me: "You want to maybe describe your action or something?" My brother: "No." That was it. Session over. My girlfriend, who was Game Mastering, packed up the dice. As I said, she doesn't like my brother and was reluctant to play with him, but did anyway. This pushed her limit and it was over. It was at a family gathering with my cousins. My brother whined to my parents about something, so we went home about ten minutes after (though we could've mingled with my cousins, such as a week-old one).
Yruc 06-02-05, 01:42 AM	30 bucks, Tell him to go mow a couple neighbor's lawns and buy his own. Tell him to save his allowance and buy his own copy, Let him copy / xerox / scanner the relavant sections he needs at his cost. Tell him to ask santa for a copy or a copy for his birthday.
Dragonsblood 06-02-05, 05:50 AM	Why don't you just tell your brother to leave you alone? Do your parents make you take him with you? Can you move out?
DonGnocci 06-02-05, 07:20 AM	@Rathje: Well... at first... If your parents don't discipline your brother to behave in a civilized manner... hmm... My hints: Tell him it's YOUR PHB, not HIS. Tell him, that he is NOT wanted in your gaming group. Don't play with people you don't like. If he does not understand that... and starts crying and whinin' and yelling... Give him a slap in the face ... so he has a reason to cry. Plain&simple. And he if he asks why, slap him again. But HARDER. [quote: "I gave an obviously hesitant reply, but it was a reply that contained an "I guess so." His response (in a borderline-angry tone): "You knew I wanted to use it when you bought it!" Then he kind of stomped off down the hallway." I guess at that point i would have TOLD your brother that it is not HIS book, and he should get a f****** copy himself, if he wants to play D&D...If he'd reply in an inappropriate manner, i'd slap him, cause he seems to deserve that. Seems like your brother is a bit spoiled, eh? But you DID borrow him the copy though you wanted to browse it with your girlfriend that night?]
fallabel 06-02-05, 09:04 AM	Has anyone noticed that a large number of the problems brought up on this board deal with folks not knowing how to handle OOG situations? More specifically, it seems like they don't know how to handle difficult social situations. (See this thread, all of the "How should I talk to my DM..." threads, etc.)
Thoronmir 06-02-05, 10:16 AM	Has anyone noticed that a large number of the problems brought up on this board deal with folks not knowing how to handle OOG situations? More specifically, it seems like they don't know how to handle difficult social situations. (See this thread, all of the "How should I talk to my DM..." threads, etc.)While I agree with your sentiment, I’m not too concerned when someone asks for advice on how to confront their DM, players, whatever with a problem. I’m in my early 40s … the OP sounds much younger. I’m willing to bet that I’ve learned more than he has when it comes to social interaction (I’m certain I’ve made enough mistakes over the years to fill a treatise). Our handicap, however, is that no mere post can really educate us as to all of the interpersonal dynamics at play. For one thing, such a post (regardless of its length) is almost always skewed by the poster’s perspective and biases. For another, we are given a sliver of a glimpse of how the parties interact … hardly enough information on which to base detailed counsel. So, in the end, responsible members of the forum are limited to offering generalized “common sense” suggestions. Personally, I take umbrage at posts requesting “help” when the OP has failed to even try to discuss his problem with the people involved before seeking advice from an anonymous group of strangers who are ill-equipped to prescribe a remedy for the OP’s situation. They come here to solicit opinions regarding “How to Talk to My DM” as if the person’s status as a DM requires some new approach to communication. If you were to read all of those types of threads, you would discover that most of the useful advice boils down to the very same advice we would offer if the thread were titled “How to Talk to My Mailman” or “How to Talk to My Dentist” … because the same rules apply. So I’m clear, I’m not ranting about posts asking for technical advice on a DM’s ruling. This is obviously the proper forum for such issues (though I’d still rather see more OPs talk to their DMs before posting here). I realize that some people prefer to collect counter-arguments before they confront the DM (though, in my experience, it’s usually not necessary). The issues Rathje describes have nothing to do with D&D. You could replace Players Handbook with any other item (a DVD, a CD, a videogame, etc.) and Rathje would be in the same position. He doesn’t like his brother, doesn’t want his brother borrowing his things, and doesn’t want his brother “ruining” his fun. My brother and I felt the same way about each other when we were young, but we outgrew such feelings as we reached adulthood. The brother who “despised” me at 15 asked me to be Godfather to his son at 30. Rathje, the best advice I can offer is to tell your brother he’s no longer welcome at the game. Be prepared for him to protest to your parents (I don’t know why, but parents seem to want their children to play together … I think they fear a sense of “exclusion” will scar the child). As for your books, if either of them was a gift from your parents, be prepared to be ordered to “share” with your brother (again, I don’t know why, but “sharing” seems to be a point of emphasis with most parents). So, as with all such threads, my advice boils down to a few common-sense points … tell the person involved exactly what’s bothering you and be prepared to give examples … tell them how you would like to resolve the situation and be prepared to consider alternative solutions … be direct, but polite … do not personalize the issues too much. Good luck.
fallabel 06-02-05, 10:46 AM	Personally, I take umbrage at posts requesting “help” when the OP has failed to even try to discuss his problem with the people involved before seeking advice from an anonymous group of strangers who are ill-equipped to prescribe a remedy for the OP’s situation. They come here to solicit opinions regarding “How to Talk to My DM” as if the person’s status as a DM requires some new approach to communication. If you were to read all of those types of threads, you would discover that most of the useful advice boils down to the very same advice we would offer if the thread were titled “How to Talk to My Mailman” or “How to Talk to My Dentist” … because the same rules apply. The issues Rathje describes have nothing to do with D&D. You could replace Players Handbook with any other item (a DVD, a CD, a videogame, etc.) and Rathje would be in the same position. Those two points fully describe the source of my frustration. Summed up shortly, I often desire to say, "He's your friend, talk to him."