Post/Author/DateTime	Post
beezly 02-07-05, 05:25 PM	Hello, a sucessful feint denies your target's dexterity bonus to AC, so could i say, with the improved feint feat, feint, suceed, and then deal sneak attack damage?
Vapthorne 02-07-05, 05:28 PM	Yes... in fact, it's a common SA tactic.
Stuntman 02-07-05, 05:31 PM	Yes... in fact, it's a common SA tactic. I agree.
mcnoo 02-07-05, 05:41 PM	There are other reasons to feint? Hang on, characters with bluff sometimes don't have sneak attack? Oh, right, bards, but since when has one of them done anything in mele that wasn't full defence?
Vapthorne 02-07-05, 06:37 PM	There are other reasons to feint? Hang on, characters with bluff sometimes don't have sneak attack? Oh, right, bards, but since when has one of them done anything in mele that wasn't full defence? They can always Faint.
mercurial67 02-07-05, 06:39 PM	There are other reasons to feint? Hang on, characters with bluff sometimes don't have sneak attack? Oh, right, bards, but since when has one of them done anything in mele that wasn't full defence?There are multiple reasons to use the bluff skill in combat. If you are going against someone with a very high dex bonus, it might make the difference between hitting and missing. (an effective -4 to thier AC is a 20% increase in hit chance - although it should be you loose all dodge bonuses, not just dex bonus). If you are in the middle of combat and want to hide. Make a bluff check and if you beat their sense motive, you have enough of a diversion to make a hide check. Ever wanted to make suggestions to your companions during a fight? Anything you yell to your friends (move behind him so I can flank) can also be heard by your enemies. Bluff can be used to deliver secret messages. They may have you beat, but how are they to know you AREN'T the advanced scoutting group for a larger group. If you bluff them well enough, they may just retreat.
JadeSpider9643 02-07-05, 06:49 PM	bluffing is also good for the straight up head fake aganist dumb creatures [Group fighting a dozen or so goblins] Me: [stops fighting and yells] LOOK OUT! RED DRAGON! 5 goblins who failed sense motive: AHHHH! [drop weapons and panic] Me: [kills 2 goblins before they notice] goblins ain't too smart ;)
chocobochicken 02-08-05, 10:10 AM	When my DM gave me the reigns for a couple weeks so he could sit back as a player, he convinced himself he was going to show off all sorts of combat tactics he thought we should have been doing all along. This included having his Cleric/Fighter trying a feint against an Ogre. But it turned out he had misinterpreted the rules and thought the standard action of the bluff check then entitled him to a free attack action within the same round. After much explanation, what the other players finally got to witness was a DM's character waste a turn performing a feint without Improved Feint or any ranks in Bluff against an enemy that had a +0 DEX mod to begin with! (Oddly enough, he rolled a natural 20 on his Bluff check and a natural 1 on the attack roll!) I'm still trying to convince the party rogue this would be a good idea for her. :rolleyes:
Pesi 02-08-05, 10:39 AM	One of my favorite things to do as a fighter: Bluff ("No DEX 4 U") followed by Trip ("No Armor 4 U"). Hey, it's fun. ;)
TroubleWolf 02-08-05, 06:22 PM	So, then, let's say you have two rogues in the group, and one of them (the one with higher initiative) feints. Does the enemy lose its Dex to both rogues for the entire round, or just to the rogue that feinted? We had a situation where my rogue was too far away from the other rogue to get there in one move, and couldn't Charge into a flanking position. Instead, I held my action. When the other rogue feinted, granting himself sneak attack, I charged in (again, not to a flanking spot) thinking I would get sneak attack because the enemy was now denied his Dex. However, my DM ruled that the enemy was only denied Dex to the rogue who feinted. (I didn't argue, I'm just curious as to how the skill works)
Nom 02-08-05, 10:53 PM	So, then, let's say you have two rogues in the group, and one of them (the one with higher initiative) feints. Does the enemy lose its Dex to both rogues for the entire round, or just to the rogue that feinted?Check the feint rules in PH chapter 8. It says something along the lines of "is denied Dex bonus to AC against your next attack." So the answer to your question is "neither". The enemy loses Dex bonus to AC against the next melee attack of the character that successfully passed a feint check. If you want multiple sneak attacks, you need either flanking or a flat footed opponent. Notice that "flat footed" is an attribute of the target, while losing Dex bonus to AC is a subjective comparison between attacker and target (although some conditions cause it to be lost automatically).
ephon1 02-09-05, 12:10 AM	Another classic tactic. Characters with touch/ray spells may also use feint/improved feint. (No dodge, armor, natural armor, and shield bonus to AC) :dancin:
Aramil_silverwind 02-09-05, 12:46 AM	Characters with touch/ray spells may also use feint/improved feint. (No dodge, armor, natural armor, and shield bonus to AC) And this is why deflection is my Favorite kind of bonus!
chocobochicken 02-09-05, 08:33 AM	Characters with touch/ray spells may also use feint/improved feint. (No dodge, armor, natural armor, and shield bonus to AC) Touch, yes, but I would argue against ray spells. These are ranged touch attacks, and the SRD text describing feint actions specifically mentions melee combat.