Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragonseth 03-20-06, 08:57 PM	This is gonna require a little background. We have 3 people in our group, each of which has 2 chars. I have a LG sword-using monk and a CG warlock. Friend number 1 has a LE assassin, and a CE tank. Friend number 2 has a NN Duelist, and a NG Frenzied Berserker/Berserk/Barbarian. He likes to use all three at once. My guys were going to investigate a magic river at the town they stay at, and the assassin and meatshield say they'll come. We meet up with the other two. Anyway, last time we found this artifact that was the source of a magic river that was supplying a local town with its water. My guys, being good decide to give it back to the town, since we killed their river. They reluctantly agree. "We killed a river, how much XP is that worth?" It gets stolen the next night :rolleyes: so we come out and its gone from the middle of the fountain we put it in so they could still have water. We're out searching for it, and run into some hardcore enemies, but haven't found it yet. We took a break. Here's where it gets interesting. This is out of game. "You're gonna give it back aren't you." (Friend #1) "Yeah, of course." "You know I'm gonna argue that, right?" "Yeah." "It'll probably be something to the effect of, 'Those podunk hics lost it once already, I'm selling this thing. I do not want to get this back for them every few nights.' " "I am going to defend that to the last breath." "OK, well I don't like your character anyway, I think you shoulda made a cleric. I'm gonna assassinate him during the night if he argues this." "WHAT?" "Oh, by the way, your guy has no knowledge of this, only you do. And, if you can't keep em separate, I'll take out your Warlock guard you'll probably set up too." "How do you expect to not get owned by (Friend Number 2) while doing this?" "Invisibility, Silence, I got all this stuff. I'll say I slept through the whole thing. And remember, this is OOC knowledge." How should I handle this? I really don't want my character to die, but I do want to roleplay him really well. That was the whole source of this argument: good roleplaying. He would never do this for any other reason than that he's evil. He stole from the rest of the party at night once already, murdered a housewife and stole her stuff, and has done a lot of other evil stuff. It's funny though, 'cause our guys don't know most of the stuff he's done IC. He has massive skill bonuses.
Ameture Expert 03-20-06, 09:23 PM	Do you know if he has any ranks "escape artist?" If not, manicles might be a solution. But, he probable does and you probable don't just happen to have a set of manicls handy. I used to have an Assasin so I know them preaty well... still I got nothing, I'll get back to you when I do. P.S. If you have any doubts, I assure you the urge to kill party members while playing an assasin is great.
Redisbest 03-20-06, 09:25 PM	That is the worst thing that I have heard today. Try talking privately to the DM- maybe he can tweak something so that your character has early warning or something. As far as taking care of it with just roleplay, does your character (either of them) have a bad feeling about this guy? Roles can tell you how much you actually get to "know", but if you're playing a guy with intuition or it otherwise fits with the character, you don't have to follow the dice. (what i mean is that, even though you may have failed roles that let you know that he's done evil things, your character still may be the type to be wary regardless) try talking IC to Friend #2- let him know that you have misgivings and think that you should watch each others' backs against friend #1's character(s). If you can avoid it, don't let him know about the OOC conversation, this way when friend 1 realizes whati's going on, you can honestly say that you didn't metagame (too much). Have you done something to your friend to make him want to torment you, or was he just having a stupid moment? My group has a rule that there are no OOC discussions of plans if the players are working against each other. It was torture last campaign because we all had different goals and no one knew who to trust, but it was worth it seeing as you can't turn a switch and suddenly not know what you learn ooc. wow. this was way too long. apologies and sympathies.
evilviper77 03-20-06, 09:28 PM	What is your in-game knowledge of player1's characters? Do you know they are evil aligned? or just that they don't tend to agree with your decisions? Personally this is why my DM (and i myself if i were to ever DM) would absolutely not let anyone evil aligned play with a group of people good aligned.
Carnor_Jax 03-20-06, 09:48 PM	Hmmm. as I peruse the Whats a Player boards I come upon our own game. Hello I am player number 1. His synopsis is true, I have been roleplaying evil (my alignment) the whole time. I have a 29 hide 29 move silently and 17 sleight of hand so I have been getting away uncaught by the group IC for lots of stealing loot and breaking into places at night. This magical sapphire that we found is probably worth quite a bit. The good aligned characters in the group decided to give it back to the town and put it in a fountain. It was stolen yada yada we have almost go it back. My In Game character basically said "this time were keeping it and selling it" the most good aligned guy (the poster of this thread) said "hell no" so out of game I said well I'm a beastly assassin so I'll just kill you one night and that will be that. Our DM lets us make new characters at some penalty if we die so this will not totally ruin the game for him. In this way I silence my IC opponent and get lots more money. As evil this works fine for my roleplaying. Our DM says I can as long as I succedded in killing him without getting caught. So I personally view this as a fine thing to do.
dragonseth 03-20-06, 09:56 PM	I definitely think Bob was joking when he agreed to that... Anyway, I think I may talk to Friend number 2 IC. That was a good idea. I do not know that he is truly evil at the moment, but I see him do some not-so-nice stuff, though most of his murder/rape/pillage stuff goes on unnoticed. Our DM lets us be in one group, 'cause he basically said, "Make whatever you want, I'll come up with something for you guys to adventure together." I definitely think persuading the big half-ogre berserker to protect me might be fun. :D
Redisbest 03-20-06, 10:07 PM	I personally view this as a fine thing to do. It sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing for your character to do, however, I do take issue with how you handled it OOC. Sometimes it's hard not to talk about IC plans, especially during a break in a game, but if you're planning on killing someone, it tends to be best not to tell them. If you had kept your plan to yourself, you would be 100% in the right for staying true to your character. But by telling your friend this (and causing him a lot of OOC distress) you come off as a jerk. Now if you don't kill him it will seem like you're betraying your character, and he'll always be looking over his shoulder when he disagrees with you. And killing him later on would, to me, be worse. I hope that the dice are really against you when you go to kill him so that both of your surviving characters will have a really fun, dramatic situation to roleplay. Oh, and I'm sure that you're not actually a jerk, and your post on this proves that you're most likely an ok guy. If stabbing a party member in his sleep works with your character, then I'm kinds of supportive, I just don't think that he should have to agonize about it beforehand. Good luck. :) [Edit after reading the Dragonseth's reply] Was there a method to your madness, Carnor_Jax? Now hew has a fun IC chance to save himself and that will make for some nifty roleplay. If that was your purpose, then I bow to your craftyness. Hard-freaking-core
Always-Late 03-20-06, 10:28 PM	Whenever a game starts, that isn't good, it's implicit that PC's won't be killing each other. If the DM ever said, "Yes, having characters kill other characters," my character would have a guard falcon, be climbing the nearest tree he could find every day, loading a crossbow, and sleeping on top of it, strapped in, before coming down for the day. And that's at level 1. And that's not due to IC knowledge. It's because it's pretty stupid to do anything else, but you don't just because it's so much easier for a normal campaign. You just say, "By the way, I don't like your character. I think you should have made an expert who could craft items for us. That's why as soon as your character goes to sleep today, he's getting coup de graced in the face for 2d8 + 32 damage and a fortitude save of at least 44, or he dies instantly." Then leave the game. Think about it. Your friend decides he doesn't like your character so his character is going to kill yours. And then he lectures you about keeping IC and OOC stuff separate. He's just being dumb.
evilviper77 03-20-06, 10:37 PM	Whenever a game starts, that isn't good, it's implicit that PC's won't be killing each other. If the DM ever said, "Yes, having characters kill other characters," my character would have a guard falcon, be climbing the nearest tree he could find every day, loading a crossbow, and sleeping on top of it, strapped in, before coming down for the day. And that's at level 1. And that's not due to IC knowledge. It's because it's pretty stupid to do anything else, but you don't just because it's so much easier for a normal campaign. You just say, "By the way, I don't like your character. I think you should have made an expert who could craft items for us. That's why as soon as your character goes to sleep today, he's getting coup de graced in the face for 2d8 + 32 damage and a fortitude save of at least 44, or he dies instantly." Then leave the game. Think about it. Your friend decides he doesn't like your character so his character is going to kill yours. And then he lectures you about keeping IC and OOC stuff separate. He's just being dumb. You make a good point, and it goes to prove that it's impossible to keep OOC stuff from coming IC. I mean really, the only reason most groups meet/stay together is because of OOC knowledge, you know those people you are interacting with are people you are supposed to group up with, so you make it happen. You don't watch your back every second of the day because you know OOC they won't do anything, and you trust them not to leave you for dead because you are a group and doing so would only cause trouble OOC as well as IC. This is a fundamental reason campaigns shouldn't be made with both good and evil characters in the same group. Because then that OOC trust is completely broken and it puts a real drain on the game if you actually RPed it realistically, so you just go ahead and give that trust, which usually is broken farther on down the line (by the evil character). As it is now. There really is no reason for your character IG to ever trust any of the other characters if they haven't showed some kind of allegeince to your causes, ideas, or risked their life to save yours multiple times. It being the case you are always bickering with him, that itself gives you plenty of reasons to always be on the lookout for him and the other players if they don't honestly act friendly with you IC, to your characters perception.
Doopliss 03-20-06, 10:44 PM	That's why as soon as your character goes to sleep today, he's getting coup de graced in the face for 2d8 + 32 damage and a fortitude save of at least 44, or he dies instantly." I thought Coup de Graces dealt max damage...
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-20-06, 10:49 PM	I thought Coup de Graces dealt max damage... Nah, just automatic crit and save DC 10 + damage or die instantly. Though if you've got Power Attack and you CDG without maxing that, you're a fool.