Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dual_BSword 01-22-07, 08:06 PM	it seems that in all of the campaigns in which ive played or dm-ed for, the female characters(played by male people) always seem to be hit on and messed with the most, no matter how ugly or far off race they are... does this happen to you? and ways to fix it?
SokenzanMarauder 01-22-07, 08:10 PM	Could be the DM being an idiot. Generally that's what it is. Of course, sometimes the players contribute too, but with a guy playing the female character I'd figure that they're just being 'odd'. -Gene
Dual_BSword 01-22-07, 08:12 PM	just to play around of course, u can't say that u've never played or thought about playing a female character (and vice versa for chicks)
Ryu Katsuragi 01-22-07, 08:31 PM	I've never felt the urge to play a female. Mainly due to the way the males in my group reacted to the (rather attractive) noblewoman love interest I included in my characters backstory. But I know males playing females tend to be rather... childish, in my experience. But the girls playing guys are equally scary.
Crimson_Concerto 01-22-07, 08:38 PM	The first time I played a female character, my group felt awkward about it... for 3 minutes. Afterwards, they pretty much got over it. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I never got any problems with such immaturity from my group. Of course, I'm not the king of guy who playes his female characters as nymphomaniacs or anything, so that might have helped. She wasn't androgenous either, though. She was rather distinctly female. One of the other characters is more polite to her, though. He has made no advances or anything creepy, but his character was supposed to be chivalrous, so it was only natural that he always called her by a proper name and apologized for his language and such. However, that's just normal RPing, not really anything immature. Maybe I just got lucky with my group, but if it's bothering you, just tell them so. :)
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-22-07, 08:39 PM	I don't see the big problem with cross-gendered roleplaying. Gender is really just cosmetic; if your group gets hung up on a cosmetic difference like that, that's a lack of maturity in my opinion. What next... right handed people playing left handed characters? There's another cosmetic trait that makes no difference, let's make fun of people who play opposite-handed characters.
Crimson_Concerto 01-22-07, 08:41 PM	OOH! Let's make fun of people who play characters of different races, too!!! Wait, that's like almost everybody...
DarkKitsune 01-22-07, 08:46 PM	Well, my advise would be the same no matter the gender of the playing character; if you don't like it, say so. If they persist, find a more mature group to play with. Treating a character like that because they're female I find to be rather immature.
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-22-07, 08:47 PM	OOH! Let's make fun of people who play characters of different races, too!!! Wait, that's like almost everybody... While we're at it we can make fun of everyone who plays a class that uses abilities that the player can't (i.e. spellcasting), make fun of players who play characters that aren't the exact same age as them, characters... I could go on and derail this topic to being rather petty, but I won't.
obrysii 01-22-07, 08:57 PM	My first 3rd edition character was a female. No one had any problem with it. I find female characters are almost easier to play, because it's easier to distance myself from the character (and therefore metagame less).
CrimsonDeath 01-22-07, 09:22 PM	I play female characters probably almost half the time (more often in internet campaigns than face-to-face, though). My experiences range from my halfling sorceress (who the Human Spellthief was constantly hitting on) to the Neraph assassin (who the other players kept forgetting was even female). And since someone mentioned it, I think about 10% of my characters are left-handed...
Tyler Do'Urden 01-22-07, 10:01 PM	it seems that in all of the campaigns in which ive played or dm-ed for, the female characters(played by male people) always seem to be hit on and messed with the most, no matter how ugly or far off race they are... does this happen to you?No, I graduated.
seldom_seen 01-22-07, 10:51 PM	does this happen to you? and ways to fix it? It happened once with my party. One of the guys decided he wanted to play a female character. He played a female amazonian type warrior, and played her well. One of the other players kept joking around and trying to hit on her. The player got together with the DM and came up with an in-game solution. The Female character "gave in" to the advances of the other player. Soon thereafter, the male character came down with a rare tropical disease that the amazon was carrying. The amazon was immune, but to someone who had never encountered it, the disease was brutal! Smptoms included large, painful boils on all exposed skin surfaces. The boils also oozed a vile smelling substance, and was resistant to cure disease spells. The rest of the party got the hint, and the affected character finally found an expensive cure, and the amazon became a valued member of the party! (She could really kick ***!)
Tequila_Sunrise 01-22-07, 11:17 PM	Sucks to be you dude. What's the age group of your players? The only way to handle this immaturity is to handle it just like any other type of immaturity: you either put up with it (the 'choose your battles' solution if you have worse issues to worry about), find another group or tell them to quit (might end up the same as option B in the end). Simple as that. http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=645
Meshakhad 01-22-07, 11:58 PM	I play female characters all the time. My last character was female. And she had a high Charisma. In fact, due to a strange substance she drank (DM included this) she was turning into a nymph. However, through a combination of: a) My group is civil b) I had to leave the group 'temporarily' due to college applications (turned into 'for the rest of the campaign') c) In addition to being beautiful, she was both a warlock and mentally unstable. Hitting on her might result in an eldritch blast where the sun don't shine. I do play female characters a lot - mostly female paladins. My advice: when playing female characters, stick to ones with high damage outputs (warriors and arcane spellcasters, mostly). If the unwanted advances go too far, you can always use violence (or at least the threat of violence) to solve the issue.
DragonSamurai 01-23-07, 12:16 AM	I have to say it's never been an issue for our group. One of our female players predominately plays males and one of our male player predominately plays female. Our next upcoming campaign comprises of an entire female party, most of the players are male. I foresee no problems with this. I think in the end it basicly comes down to maturity.
Fumblena 01-23-07, 02:08 AM	Being the only female in an all male group, I can understand what you are saying. Most of the time my girls aren't messed with, unless it progresses the story, like the time my female warrior ended up being suduced by a guy who was proxied. Her child ended up being proxied also. That was a weird experiance. Every time I play a guy everyone's like 'are you a chick or guy this time?' Gender honestly shouldn't play a very big role in the story.
chafenooda 01-23-07, 02:16 AM	In the group I'm in, this has been a problem in the past. Not only did we have a guy playing a gal but at the same time we had a gal playing a guy. I just kept getting too confusing. Solution: House Rule- play your gender!!! Aside from that, there are of course random magics that may cause a gender change but atleast you would have started as your own gender.
Yokomohoyo 01-23-07, 02:24 AM	I confronted the same situation once... I had a character that was cursed into a raman 1/2 sort of role (whenever he got wet he turned from male to female)... One of the games one of the other players got the bright idea to hit on my character durring a rain storm... Long story short I let the character hit on mine untill we reached a tavern and I dried up... I'll tell you that is the last time anyone ever hit on any of my characters hehehehehe.
Always-Late 01-23-07, 02:59 AM	I almost always play male characters. It's not that I've averse to playing girls (except in one spectacularly mature playgroup which I might have reservations about,) it's that I've never bothered changing my character play style too much. Then again, it's always kobolds, so I don't suppose the gender matters much.
Sleepwalker13666 01-23-07, 04:25 AM	I usually play female characters, I think it's because of the comics I read, they help inspire a concept, (For those who are curious: Areala, Lady Death, Chastity, Purgatori, Tarot the Witch of the Black Rose, Shot Gun Mary, Avenglean, Shi, kubuki, Double Impact, Razor, Lethal Strike, Poizen, Angela etc.). I generally don't have players hitting on my character despite me describing them as attractive and in revealing attire, but I think it's mostly because the group is mature enough not to try and bed my character unless they have a reason. Being adventurers it's not uncommon to want to celebrate after a sucessful mission, and celebrating can involve sex. A simple example is the conan movies, Conan got in Valerias thong after they robed the temple, so a simualr mentality amoungest certain characters could be expected. Now if the party is mostly composed of characters with high moral standards (such as Vnights, paladins, or exalted) then they are simply not playing there characters right (not saying these guys can't get lucky, but they would most likly avoid that vind of behavior), but if the group is mostly mercenary like, vigil antes etc, then hitting on your female character would be in the normal scope of behavior for them. You could simply tell your group that your uncomfortable trying to roleplay relations between characters and you would appriciate if they did'nt try. Just because your character is female does'nt mean you want her obtainable.
Banatine 01-23-07, 07:59 AM	i had a bad experiance playing a female character, but only because there is one person in the group who's characters always hate my characters with no justification. he tried to kill her because i hit the party rogue after he rolled a 1 to steal from my bag, and when i refused to fight him (he had some honour), he coup de grace'd me in my sleep (or so i thought). i had no problem with others trying to hit on me because i was dragonborn, had wings and a prehensile tail (which one person had to discover the hard way).
Mercurius 01-23-07, 10:04 AM	I almost exclusively play female characters, but I've never really run into the issue of the other players being immature about it. Typically, I've had the benefit of mature fellow players, or people who just feel uncomfortable hitting on my character due to the fact that we are both male players. *shrug* It's confusing one of my DMs right now, though, since I'm playing a female character and my fiancee is playing her first male character.
Archangel62 01-23-07, 10:39 AM	I don't have a problem with someone doing a female character if they are a guy, but if they do it over and over again it can get a little annoying. But to the main issue, some of it might be a 'take what you can get' sort of view. Adventurers travel a lot and rarely set down anywhere, female adventurers are generally quite capable and also time in proximity means that people will grow close to one another. Just some food for thought.
DoctorRomulus 01-23-07, 10:58 AM	When I run the house rule is, play your gender. Otherwise I don't really care. In 23 years of gaming I've never had a problem with others playing cross gendered characters. Never will play a female myself though, guess just never had any interest in doing so. As for the hitting on part, my campaigns tend to be rated PG with all "luvin" goin on behind the scenes.
Soulkeeper 01-23-07, 11:22 AM	We've never allowed cross gender gaming in our sessions, and when I say we I mean me, or any previous DM I seem to ever have had. Much like DR, it was always play your gender. No one really ever questioned it, nor had issues. We also play PG on the sexual basis, and always have. Sure, blood and guts litter the floor, but apparently storks bring babies in our world. I somehow always feel like that D&D "geek" spoof movie when I think of playing cross gender and dealing with the sexual issues, you know the one I'm refering too...
Realityhack 01-23-07, 12:37 PM	it seems that in all of the campaigns in which ive played or dm-ed for, the female characters(played by male people) always seem to be hit on and messed with the most, no matter how ugly or far off race they are... does this happen to you? and ways to fix it? The fixes will be diffrent depending upon the situation. If you are the DM you should have no problem correcting the situation. Characters hitting on someone ugly can easily be teased or worse by NPCs. Valorous gentleman can kick some butt etc. As a player the solution would have to take a diffrent route. Your character should stand up for herself if it is at all in her nature (as and adventurer it almost certainly is). In the case of the ugly char. some out of game comments might put the brakes on it. Evenutualy it may come down to talking to the DM and/or finding a more mature group. I have not had a problem with this in the games I have run or been in. I think the 'play your own gener' 'solution' is a crutch for an imature group that can't handle role playing all that well. One thing to think about is why is it diffrent when a player is a female vs. an NPC being female? I think the answer may speak to the maturaty level involved. When I play an attractive female I expect the posibility of a few advances and comments from other PCs. And I react as my character would under the circumstances. High quality GMing sould go a long way towards solving these types of issues as well. The GM calling a player asside or using in-game mechanics can put the brakes on something that is inappropriate or disruptive to the game. Also with a mix of player genders I think you might see this a little less.
Stewie 01-23-07, 12:52 PM	My issue with guys playing girls is that in over 20 years of playing d&d is that it always seems to end up being the guys that have no contact with girls and are socially awkward who play the female characters. Invariably a situation arises where I think to myself "theres no way any girl I have known or have dated or had a lasting relationship with would act in that way" That being said I, in no way claim to know how the female mind works. (although I do believe that it is a large pile of pink frilly lace coated in pixie dust that is designed specifically to confuse and frustrate men) There are 2 guys that I play with on a regular basis that play girls and they fit the "no contact" profile to a "T". I also find that the lesser chance the person has at having contact with a girl directly relates to the frequency that they play female characters. Of course this is a fairly broad generalization and there are exceptions but I do believe that it holds up for the most part. For the most part, the groups that I play with just treat the characters as people and try to ignore the fact that it is a female character. I guess the bottom line is that everyone has a good time and if some one feels the need to play a chick who am I to tell him no?
High Octane 01-23-07, 12:55 PM	Men are pigs.
Boraxe 01-23-07, 01:06 PM	it seems that in all of the campaigns in which ive played or dm-ed for, the female characters(played by male people) always seem to be hit on and messed with the most, no matter how ugly or far off race they are... does this happen to you? No, it doesn't. Tell your players to grow up.
MindLich 01-23-07, 01:13 PM	I don't see the problem in cross-sex roleplaying. Technically, the goal of the game is to play a character that is nothing like you, be it by personality, looks, race or gender. My friend played a female human in my campaign, it was not awkward because it is just a story. And I have a semi-mature group, everyone being 14 years old. Though I have to admit, I don't have the courage to pull a romance story.
Conlan 01-23-07, 02:12 PM	I've been playing D&D for 6 years. One of my longest-running characters is a female cleric. She doesn't get hit on often, and when she does get hit on, she doesn't freak out and kick the guy in the balls (is that player a homophobe?) -- although if the guy is really pushy she will back away -- she gets embarrassed and flattered like any normal person would. She's not the slutty type that pounces guys at a mere touch or the prudent type that thinks all guys just want sex or that said sex is disgusting. The thing your players have to remember about cross-gender characters is that, contrary to popular belief, women are people too. If your male playing a female character is flirting with women in town, have the party run into a town where lesbianism is a crime; similarly, if the character is flirting with men, have one of them be ultra-fertile or a carrier of a disease. Realize that after a negative consequence appears for immature behavior, that behavior will decline.
kelvinaw273 01-23-07, 04:43 PM	it seems that in all of the campaigns in which ive played or dm-ed for, the female characters(played by male people) always seem to be hit on and messed with the most, no matter how ugly or far off race they are... does this happen to you? and ways to fix it? I'm unlear about 'messed with'? Q1) Is it the DM or the other players ort both doing this? Q2) Is this done purely in character? Q3) is/are the player(s) of the female character(s) inciting such behaviour in the way they play their character(s)? I play female characters as often as male ones, and I had an odd look in one group I joined, afterwhich ... nothing happened. We got on with it. Usually it's a sign of immaturity and/or insecurity in one form or another if it happens at all. Most adult gamers don't seem to have any problems ...
FntsyWlkr 01-23-07, 05:04 PM	I don't see the big problem with cross-gendered roleplaying..... Ace, I have to back you up on this one. I concur with everything you said. It's game. Not an expression of a lifestyle. But to directly link to your question: How to deal with this. Remember the concept of the game is that you are playing heroes/adventurers. Not models and trampsluts. The ideology needs to shift. The ideology of the players and the DM. Especially if the situation is that people are not having fun. If the DM needs to role play the episode where "someone will not stop hitting on you" obviously it is their will to play that out over progressing the plot line. That needs to be addressed. Just make the statement "I don't have fun doing this. Let's move on." equal time. Tell the male DM, when he plays a Female NPC, he needs to hit on the Male PC to the same degree.
Reversefigure4 01-23-07, 05:04 PM	Invariably a situation arises where I think to myself "theres no way any girl I have known or have dated or had a lasting relationship with would act in that way" How many girls have you known that spend their time stabbing things with swords and then stealing their stuff, the main occupation of an adventurer? I don't pretend I can roleplay a woman perfectly accurately, because I'm not one. However, I'm also not an elf, dwarf, person with the ability to channel the power of the gods, or even someone with potential "real world" skills like being an excellent swordsman or a skilled martial artist. I know little about outdoor survival, nor how a monastery meditation technique works. Despite that, I roleplay all these characters. Imperfectly, yes, but unless you happen to actually be a dwarven cleric IRL - fairly doubtful - you can't really impersonate one accurately.
Stewie 01-23-07, 05:20 PM	How many girls have you known that spend their time stabbing things with swords and then stealing their stuff, the main occupation of an adventurer? I don't pretend I can roleplay a woman perfectly accurately, because I'm not one. However, I'm also not an elf, dwarf, person with the ability to channel the power of the gods, or even someone with potential "real world" skills like being an excellent swordsman or a skilled martial artist. I know little about outdoor survival, nor how a monastery meditation technique works. Despite that, I roleplay all these characters. Imperfectly, yes, but unless you happen to actually be a dwarven cleric IRL - fairly doubtful - you can't really impersonate one accurately. I knew that someone would use this argument and I don't disagree with it as it is a legitimate and reasonable one. Although, regardless of how much we consider this a fantasy game we all place our human bias (Especially gender) on the characters. This has happened time and again through all fantasy and Sci-fi. Because of this when we play as a guy or a girl we come to expect them to act in a certain way, just as we expect elves (for the most part) to be graceful and cultured and dwarves to be the opposite. I am not saying that anyone should feel that they have to play this way and definitely encourage players to break the mold whenever they can. I just personally find it odd to play the opposite sex. Also I could never hit on or flirt with a female character that is played by some of the guys that play them, thats just.....ewww. Oh and as for us playing other races, I may actually be human and of normal height but I am fairly stocky and hairy, I can grow a beard like nothing. I think I have half the dwarf angle covered :P
SlatzGrubnik 01-23-07, 05:22 PM	I've always thought: friends dont let friends cross-roleplay.. but in general, my group tends to do that a lot, at least one of the males will play female.. it's never been a problem really...
FntsyWlkr 01-23-07, 05:29 PM	"Human bias" cannot exist because we have no concept of what the alternative could be. "Gender Bias" is socialized. The script for male/female behavior fluctuates by culture. No one could play anyone else perfectly accurately.
Lunar_Shadow 01-23-07, 05:41 PM	Our group has a female PC (played by a girl) and we have no problems. I actually have an IC reason not to do anything, if I **** her off she can tie me to her arm and use me as a shield or just put me in a bag and use me as a gnome-flail. (My charachter is small by gnome standards, he is just barely 3 feet tall and is about 30 pounds) That and we are mature enough to handle it. {The ages are 14,15,16,16,18,19,}
Boraxe 01-23-07, 06:46 PM	I am of the opinion that those who oppose it or react violently to people playing PCs of the popposite sex are themselves very insecure about their own sexuality.
Boraxe 01-23-07, 06:47 PM	"Human bias" cannot exist because we have no concept of what the alternative could be. Human bias is a given. We are human so by default everything we expeirence we do so through our human bias. It doesn't require something to be biased against.
Always-Late 01-23-07, 08:17 PM	I am of the opinion that those who oppose it or react violently to people playing PCs of the popposite sex are themselves very insecure about their own sexuality.I dunno. There are some people who I would react quite violently to if they announced they were playing a character of the opposite gender, given their track records.
The_Third_Karsus 01-23-07, 10:18 PM	If the whole hitting on female characters annoys you then what you should do is go to a wizard’s guild or something and have them conjure up a special little wand for you. A wand of Gender Changing. Then the next time some idiot feels the need to hit on a female character in your party poof your little girlfriend becomes a manly man. :D I have a DM who has his heart set on giving one of the characters a gender bend. I don't know... what can I say some DM's are weird...:confused:
Pajaul 01-23-07, 11:24 PM	I get enough crap for not playing the core races (Go Dragons and Catfolk!!) But I don't think anyone'd give me flak for playing a female... After all, Its not an all male world so the DM has to have a female NPC SOME time right? And if the DM can do it so can the PCs.
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-23-07, 11:34 PM	More thoughts: 1. It's only an issue if an issue is made of it. 2. The above statement is true for more situations than cross-gendered roleplaying. For the record, I mostly DM, and romance is a big part of my campaigns (I really like the plot hooks I can create out of romance story arcs). I'm plenty mature and secure enough to play the part of a female in the romance even though I'm male (most of the players I've DMed for were males who played male characters).
Boraxe 01-24-07, 09:52 AM	I dunno. There are some people who I would react quite violently to if they announced they were playing a character of the opposite gender, given their track records. But you are reacting to those individuals, not the concept of cross-sex PCs.
FntsyWlkr 01-24-07, 11:17 AM	Human bias is a given. We are human so by default everything we expeirence we do so through our human bias. It doesn't require something to be biased against. Correct. We have no concept of any other "bias" to have. So by default, everything is through this focal lens of a "human bias." I agree with Ace and Boraxe here.
Pippa 01-24-07, 11:17 AM	it seems that in all of the campaigns in which ive played or dm-ed for, the female characters(played by male people) always seem to be hit on and messed with the most, no matter how ugly or far off race they are... That's just plain sad. does this happen to you? Our group's party currently consists of three females and a hermaphrodite, only one and a half of which are played cross-gender. Whenever I explain the game to a kandidate-player, I include the possibility to play any gender you want, to make sure he or she understands the endless variation and possibilities D&D allows. Most of the people I have talked to this way feel that exploiting the opposite gender will lead to being regarded as hopelessly moronic by the other players. 'Hitting on', together with gross mutilations, poo-poo and wee-wee etc. is something all silently agreed on not to belong in the game. We have little gaming time (only a little marathon every three, foursome months), so we have better things to do. and ways to fix it? Use papier-maché to make a huge crown, and adorn it with raunchy pictures from magazines, and bottles of hand-soap. Make sure it's a monstrosity. Then reward any player who dares to interrupt the game by 'I fondle the elf's bum', 'Wanna see my boobies' (http://goblinscomic.com/d/20050819.html) or 'I do the pally while she sleeps' with the Crown of Carnal Frustration, for him to wear until the end of the session. There you go.
kelvinaw273 01-24-07, 03:27 PM	How many girls have you known that spend their time stabbing things with swords and then stealing their stuff, the main occupation of an adventurer? Is that all your games consist of? A great many games don't consist of regular dungeoneering, they have intrigue, politics, exploration and discovery themes as well or instead of: "Kill it, loot it, rest, next room." In such adventures female characters are more than appropriate.
Reversefigure4 01-24-07, 04:24 PM	Is that all your games consist of? A great many games don't consist of regular dungeoneering, they have intrigue, politics, exploration and discovery themes as well or instead of: "Kill it, loot it, rest, next room." In such adventures female characters are more than appropriate. My point was against "Women don't act like that" by pointing out most women players know are not, in fact, adventurers. They don't routinely kill things. I don't know any women deeply emeshed in royal politics, so I don't really know how they act either. Your mileage may vary, though.
Lunar_Shadow 01-24-07, 07:31 PM	My point was against "Women don't act like that" by pointing out most women players know are not, in fact, adventurers. They don't routinely kill things. I don't know any women deeply emeshed in royal politics, so I don't really know how they act either. Your mileage may vary, though. Hell, my charchters are all male and I don't routinly kill things. Hell, he is usually the last to resort to violence (Despite both being CN)
Fumblena 01-24-07, 07:54 PM	One player in my group rolls a d4 to decide his gender, odds=male evens=female. We have never had a problem with gender in our group. We also have a very mature group and several of us are married or in serious relationships. Maybe that's why there is no sexual frustration.
Thevail 01-24-07, 08:10 PM	I'm female and my characters never have any real problems with this sort of stuff despite the fact that we're all pretty darned immature!And except for me all male too. I think part of the problem (immaturity aside)is that if a female is playing the female character most others won't deliberately cross the taste line since it reflects on the player as well as the character. The problem is in having immature people literally turning the character into a sexual object and the person playing the character letting them. And to be brutal, the DM letting it happen.
Zinegata 01-24-07, 09:32 PM	Well, I'm male but I've played more female characters than male ones, though generally it's easier because most of my games are online (when you can't see your fellow player's faces, it's easier to imagine them being the actual character). I've also run quite a few romance threads with my female characters, though none of them ever... well, you know :P. (Two of my fellow male players who've played female characters have taken it all the way though, although we always fade to black at the point :P). I personally think that having a mix of male and female characters in an all-male group is more useful because it potentially allows for an inter-party romance thread that could be used for various purposes, such as DM hooks and fillers when there's not much going on. Even as a DM, I don't find it too uncomfortable introducing male or female NPCs for the expess purpose of serving as a love interest for a player-character. It has been said that all stories are just either war or love stories. I certainly have no qualms about making D&D just as much about the latter as it is the former.
Kas 01-25-07, 03:34 AM	It truly depends on the maturity of the players and the flexibility of the DM. A group I had years ago had mostly female players. I'd probably be right to say that there was only one another guy, who didn't get to show all that much. So many times I felt the odd man out. But on occasion, one or two of the ladies would play a male character so that mine would've feel so "left alone." Oddly enough, having all that estrogen made for an immersive roleplaying experience. We had a great session where ALL of us played women. Two guy players and three ladies. I think we all took that PrC from Faerun where you have to be a female caster, Hathran if I remember right. Any other group with less mature players and such an idea would've plummeted simply because they can't grasp someone conveying a role through another gender. If done well and right, it can be fun depending on your group.
Dual_BSword 01-25-07, 11:12 AM	this thread got a lot larger than i thought it would... i havent even looked at it in days, but it seems that a lot are getting the wrong idea, which is entirely my fault by the way i worded the first post. we arent completely immature (15,15,16,16,17). like when i said that the girls are messed with the most... i mean that they are just thrown around a lot... we boss them around, force them to be the first to go down the dark corridor, sometimes we do make sexual references but we dont "i fondle her boobies" at all. Usually the DM 'forces that character to marry an NPC and make a new character. since her adventuring is over. Keep posting as you are though.
Lord_Tirian 01-25-07, 11:57 AM	this thread got a lot larger than i thought it would... i havent even looked at it in days, but it seems that a lot are getting the wrong idea, which is entirely my fault by the way i worded the first post. we arent completely immature (15,15,16,16,17). Looong way to maturity! :P (okay, that's tongue-in-cheek, since I'm just 19) we boss them around, force them to be the first to go down the dark corridor, sometimes we do make sexual references but we dont "i fondle her boobies" at all. Usually the DM 'forces that character to marry an NPC and make a new character. since her adventuring is over. Gosh, instead of sexual obsession sexism? That's immature as well, especially the forced marriages, because here he really attacks the character for no reason, besides being female, making it quite bad. In my book it's even worse than "fondle boobies", because that's innocently immature... the "pushing around" is highly abhorrent to me in Real Life. Couldn't stand this attitude at all. I think it really depends on your premise when your RP: Is your group more inclined on the adventure/wargaming/action aspect of the game (i.e. like World of Warcraft)? Then they will of course stay close to their real-life character and unload their real attitude, or an exaggerated version of it. There's also the deep-immersion aspect, this caters more to storytelling, character history, character development (i.e. White Wolf-ish approach, more like a story told together)... this approach differentiates you more from the character. I think there's a conflict between both aspects: The male players (incl. DM) are the former, the player playing the female char is the latter. And the other male characters "may" just play their role (quite improbable), but the DM... just bad. Here lies the conflict, as they try to approach the character with their own special immaturity towards females.
kelvinaw273 01-25-07, 06:27 PM	this thread got a lot larger than i thought it would... i havent even looked at it in days, but it seems that a lot are getting the wrong idea, which is entirely my fault by the way i worded the first post. we arent completely immature (15,15,16,16,17). like when i said that the girls are messed with the most... i mean that they are just thrown around a lot... we boss them around, force them to be the first to go down the dark corridor, sometimes we do make sexual references but we dont "i fondle her boobies" at all. Usually the DM 'forces that character to marry an NPC and make a new character. since her adventuring is over. Keep posting as you are though. Yes, you are immature. Not in age perhaps but in outlook. You sound like a bunch of mysogonists without the redeeming feature of chivalry, quite frankly. Why should the female go down the dark corridor first? Why do you 'force' them, and how? And why should the character marry against her will - the player decides that, not the DM? If your characters are in a sexist society then usually they will regard women as to be protected, not put at the point of danger. I would be genuinely surprised if even one of you has a genuine girlfriend, as your attitudes in the game are 'treat women like dirt, worthwhile only as canon fodder or to get married and have kids.' A few pointers for you, regarding quasi-medieval societies and women's roles: 1) Women were not second-class citizens, for the most part. A family was a working concern that needed co-operation from all parties to survive. 2) Noblewomen (and their retainers) were often accomplished archers, using the equivilent of composite short bows in hunting. Said bows will also be used shooting from loopholes in the defence of a castle. 3) Women did fight. "Walachian Defence" is a sword & buckler technique that is designed for a women to use. If said castle was breached, a woman could hold a narrow passageway while the men at arms rallied. In the absence of the Lord of the castle, the Lady would command its defence. 4) For examples, see Black Alice and Joan of Arc, among others. And those are just fighter examples ...
Ace_of_Diamonds 01-25-07, 07:38 PM	we arent completely immature (15,15,16,16,17). Age and maturity don't always correlate. Even then I'd venture to say that the average 15-17 year old is quite immature.
Dual_BSword 01-25-07, 08:33 PM	i didnt fully quotate the force in my thing i forgot the second ('), but i mean the DM makes the offer of getting maried or leaving in another fashion undenyable... the offer too good to refuse ... this is only in the cases that the female thing is getting totaly out of hand. we may have had one or two cases in which there wasnt a problem.
BlackZed 01-25-07, 09:15 PM	My question: how do you define out of hand? Because that's starting to seem like the real issue here. Is it a problem with the fact that the character is female? In the player's ability to roleplay? Or are all the female PCs so cookie-cutter that they can't possibly fit into every scenario, and so are casually brushed under the carpet and forgotten (i.e. married off to an NPC)? I've played both genders in my games, and have only recently run into problems with a female character, due to immaturity from one of the other players. My character grew up in a cage as a curiosity (pixie), and so is entirely unfamiliar with such things. And it scared her (his character is a dragon, after all), so she tends to stick close to the most nature-oriented person in the group, the wood-elf ranger, as she feels safest around him. Of course, this is really irritating said player. His argument being that he's got alternate form, what's the problem? *snort* Right..
InterSilva 01-26-07, 02:29 AM	One of the other characters is more polite to her, though. He has made no advances or anything creepy, but his character was supposed to be chauvenistic, so it was only natural that he always called her by a proper name and apologized for his language and such. However, that's just normal RPing, not really anything immature. Unless he did meant it to be condescending, I believe that would be the opposite of being a chauvenist. Maybe you meant chivalrous?
alangriffith 01-26-07, 08:40 AM	My issue with guys playing girls is that in over 20 years of playing d&d is that it always seems to end up being the guys that have no contact with girls and are socially awkward who play the female characters. Well, that's not been true in my (comparably short) 5 years of gaming experience. In my current game there are two female characters played by male PCs. One of them has a fiance (who is also playing). His current player is female and acts like female people I have known. Despite the presence of said fiance playing female (and his last character being male and involved IC with said financee) his female paladin is straight and all her (very small amount of) flirting has been directed at a male NPC (played by moi, a male DM). The other is indeed socially awkward and has limited female contact (I'm talking girlfriends here, he is very good friends with several women). His female wizard character is also very believable (not really interested in sex, far too obsessed with books and spells, I've met women and men like that). His next character is likely to be male (he's come up with about ten backup characters and at least eight are male), and he generally plays male or female depending on concept or whim. He plays a manipulative highly-sexed female character in a solo campaign (again run by me, we get far enough into character that the fact we are both male and describing sexual stuff is a non-issue), extremely well I might add. I suppose that game might help with sexual tension release, but its a serious mature game and the character uses her body to get what she wants, without becoming a joke-****. I've played with a number of other people who had opposite gender characters (I've considered it but never done it myself - still, loads of female NPCs have formed from my GM power), including female gamers playing male characters, and I have never had a problem. These characters were generally as believable as any same gender characters in the game, sometimes more so. Invariably a situation arises where I think to myself "theres no way any girl I have known or have dated or had a lasting relationship with would act in that way" Never happened with me in five years. I have on the other hand had moments where I've thought "no sentient being I have ever met, read about or thought of would do something like that." but its often players with same gender characters who are being total imbeciles. I also find that the lesser chance the person has at having contact with a girl directly relates to the frequency that they play female characters. Of course this is a fairly broad generalization and there are exceptions but I do believe that it holds up for the most part. Again, not in my five years of playing. Discounting the occasional other gender players, I know four people who have a reputation for often playing female characters (one went so far as to want to play one at a LARP using false breasts - I did consider that a tad over the top). Of these, one is now married and had a string of girlfriends when playing, one is indeed rather lacking in girlfriends but again does get on well with lots of women (just all of them only want to be friends), one had a sex-change operation (so wanted to be female rather than being woman-deprived) and one is entirely normal in his social ability and number of girlfriends. I have also interacted with people who are social awkward and lacking in girlfriends (and become one, for a time) and perhaps half always played their own gender and another quarter mostly played their own gender. Those who do often place cross-gender are, as noted above, about 50-50 awkward and not awkward. For age range, this all 18+ (university onward) people, but I assume 20 years of gaming experience covers a lot more than 15-year-olds on your side. Strange how our trends differ so much.
High Octane 01-26-07, 12:31 PM	It is true that there are people who never talk to girls yet still try to play them (like the drowbabe in Goblins). Personally Ive had lets just call it LIMITED contact with the females, so I honestly wouldnt know how to play one. I have only played one female character, and when I did I played her just like the males. Funny though, the one female character I did have was a druid. So I guess I CAN think like a chick :P
Stormbrand 01-26-07, 03:39 PM	Unless he did meant it to be condescending, I believe that would be the opposite of being a chauvenist. Maybe you meant chivalrous? Some girls don't understand the difference. Even with the difference being EVERYTHING. Sad really.
Erato 01-26-07, 09:00 PM	Unless he did meant it to be condescending, I believe that would be the opposite of being a chauvenist. Maybe you meant chivalrous? Most guys don't understand the difference. Even with the difference being EVERYTHING. Sad really. ;)
High Octane 01-26-07, 09:34 PM	Now now, play nice kids.
Foxhengeyokai 01-26-07, 10:03 PM	Female characters are just as fun to play as male ones of course. I'm a guy, and literraly 45% of my characters are female, just because that gender better matched the concept of the character I wanted at the time. But, yes my characters have been hit on in game, and it amuses me to no end. I don't have a problem with it, and don't mind even doing a little flirting back. Of course, I do set limits, flirting is as far as it goes in the group. It causes no problems, and often let's the DM take advantage of things like... differing gender dominated societies. The female PC can sneak into the amazon city for example, or infiltrate the sultan's harem.
otakutaylor 01-27-07, 12:28 PM	I'm the only person in my gaming group who plays a female character, everyone else plays guys almsot all the time, and are guys. I'm almost always a female, regaurdless of game, I just prefer to play female characters. However, I apperently do it right. A lot of guys who play girls play incredibly stereotyped girls, or more often incredibly flirty girls who are simply played for one session to make a bunch of sex jokes. Fortunatly, my friends know I play female simply because I prefer to, my character is still as much a normal adventurer as everyone elses, just a girl instead of a guy. Yes, on occasion my characters get dragged into situations that a guy would likely never find himself in. (last game she woke up with a drunk simply looming over her staring at her.) But like the suprising fact that no one remembers to take a bathroom break in the middle of a dungeon crawl, all those little details that come with being female are ignored for the sake of the game. I will admit, when someone makes a girl character who isn't just "another adventurer who is a girl" but is instead "fetish fantasy woman" it seems awkward to play with him when his character is hitting on either every guy character in the group, or in the other case, the only other female character, Me. ::shudder:: in conclusion: females characters are fine and dandy to play, as long as they aren't just "I wanna play a woman who wants to do everything I wish women would do."
skywyze 01-27-07, 01:10 PM	I'm male and half my characters have been female. #1 is my favorite character ever. Here are my experiences: 1. A young elven girl. She's actually 75 years old, but looks to be about 10. Since none of the other characters have seen an elf before (norse campaign), they treat her like a girl that young. They let her ride on their shoulders when out travelling, protect her whenever people are condecending or threatening, and are really, really nice to her. Without hitting on her! Isn't it a miracle? She's also a psion, without any armor, no weapons, no items of any sort. All her money goes into paying a high-level telepath to teach her new powers through Psychic Chirurgery. All she owns is her psicrystal and the clothes on her back. It's wonderful fun to play. Completely different from everything I'm used to. By far the most fun I've ever had in any type of game. The fact that she's a little girl who can melt your brain with a look, has a pet rock that grows spidery legs and crawls up people's legs and such (to deliver powers) and the fact that she's clearly not "of this earth" (Elves in Norse mythology were very different from D&D elves)... Well, even if she WAS mature, I think she'd be far too creepy for anyone to hit on. 2. A (mature) gray elven cleric of Wee Jas. Always dressed in black and red, but not evil! Everyone thought she was, but LG clerics of Wee Jas are perfectly fine. So again, she was too creepy for most men to hit on. There was one case where the party paladin hit on her, but since we had two females in the group (the other played by a real life woman), we conspired in Elvish (which the pally didn't speak) and played some pretty vicious pranks on him until he gave up and slinked back home in embarassment. 3. A female, half-orc monk. She was tough and rugged and nobody would dare hit on her. On the odd occasion when they did, she used phrases like, "Take it off or I'll break it off," or "I'll snap your [expletive deleted] in half like a twig." Since she had a vow of celebacy, it kind of made sense. I've never had a problem with female characters in the party. And if seeing the word "female" on a character sheet is enough to turn a guy on, I think the guy needs more help than I could ever hope to offer.
Pangeon 01-27-07, 10:48 PM	My group has never really had any kind of gender related problems. Although our current DM and I are the only ones who fairly regularly play cross gendered characters, we generally game with a group of three or four guys and two girls. None of us are socially inept, and the idea of cross gendered characters is nowhere near a problem for us. In fact, the only time I can recall one of my female characters ever being hit on by another player was by a female character played by a female player. It was amusing at least, especially considering she was the only one who ever remembered I was playing a girl.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 01-28-07, 01:31 AM	My point was against "Women don't act like that" by pointing out most women players know are not, in fact, adventurers. They don't routinely kill things. Most men players know are not adventurers who routinely kill things either. Face it. You said something stupid and got called on it.
ZombieDragon 01-28-07, 02:23 AM	In theses all male boys club games do the DM's have female NPC's that hit on the males? Probably not. So why should it be any different the other way around? I play male characters about 33% of the time. It's how I envision that character to look with the abilities they will be getting. Most of my females are far from cutsie. They are either viking war priestesses(valkyries) or vile demonic mayhem chasers. Now in real life in quite passive and know right from wrong, I don't even tell people they are acting stupid (family trait). It's a game, an outlet to escape reality. If cross gender bugs you, I'd fear your reaction to how my dad role-plays races like elves and half-orcs. I am of the opinion that those who oppose it or react violently to people playing PCs of the opposite sex are themselves very insecure about their own sexuality. This is true to a lot of facets of humanity. Those who outwardly adamantly oppose anything are suffering their own inner turmoil over the very subject.
Crimson_Concerto 01-28-07, 02:31 AM	Unless he did meant it to be condescending, I believe that would be the opposite of being a chauvenist. Maybe you meant chivalrous?Some girls don't understand the difference. Even with the difference being EVERYTHING. Sad really.Most guys don't understand the difference. Even with the difference being EVERYTHING. Sad really. ;) Chivalrous was indeed the word I was looking for, sorry for the confusion. :P
Sphyre 01-28-07, 12:07 PM	I'm currently playing a female character in an all male group. I was a little dissapointed that when I was giving my character description one person (in fact the oldest person, around 39 years old) insisted on me mentioning her breast size. I said she was of an average build, that should tell enough. Every girl that I've played with has never declared their female characters breast size (and I've played with more female players than I can count right now) so why do I have to do it? Sorry, just venting a bit at the annoyance that I can't play a female character without drawing attention to myself. My players in the game I DM had no problem with me running a female NPC than adventured with the party, in fact they loved it. Oddly enough, the player who insisted that I mention the breastsize is one of my players in the campaign I DM.
Always-Late 01-28-07, 03:07 PM	I'm currently playing a female character in an all male group. I was a little dissapointed that when I was giving my character description one person (in fact the oldest person, around 39 years old) insisted on me mentioning her breast size.Ask that player the size of his character's, uh, you know... Although I think that could specatacularly backfire.
PhoenixtheDM 01-28-07, 03:25 PM	The problem you have is pretty much a maturity issue with the group. If it comes down to it, just tell them to stop. As for the amazon thing, that's the best solution to the problem I've ever seen. If I ever end up DMing for my old group again, I'll remember that. (It's doubtful though, due to personal issues and a maturity problem on their part.) As for cross gender RPing, why not? I'm on a suicide DMing mission and started running the World's Largest Dungeon (Players insisted. I said sure.) and two of the characters in there are female. With me being the only female in the group, yeah, there's cross gender. And the group is mature enough to handle that. I don't see what the big deal is in the matter otherwise, or why there'd be a need for a house rule "Play your own gender."
Gwenfloor 01-28-07, 06:42 PM	Well, my advise would be the same no matter the gender of the playing character; if you don't like it, say so. If they persist, find a more mature group to play with. Treating a character like that because they're female I find to be rather immature. That, or you are located in a highly sexist household/society where gender is not seen as a cosmetic difference. By that logic, would our ancient ancestors in patriarchal societies be considered immature?
High Octane 01-28-07, 06:53 PM	That, or you are located in a highly sexist household/society where gender is not seen as a cosmetic difference. By that logic, would our ancient ancestors in patriarchal societies be considered immature? The question is, are the CHARACTERS acting like that, or the players?
Gwenfloor 01-28-07, 07:51 PM	For players, it could not be immature, but it could be due to their up-bringing or culture. Imagine a player from a Muslim country (Saudi Arabia, etc.)/very patriarchal household or institution/etc. who would find playing a different gender odd at best, insulting at worst. They may not like the idea of a woman going out on adventures and not performing their "roles" at home.
Zinegata 01-29-07, 01:34 AM	In theses all male boys club games do the DM's have female NPC's that hit on the males? Probably not. So why should it be any different the other way around? Actually, I have had at least one female NPC hit on a male player-character. It depends on the player, the character, and the amount of hijinks that needs to happen so the game is more interesting. More often though, I have female NPCs introduced in the campaign to serve as potential love interests for player characters. Again, it's more interesting that way. Also, as a DM, I have often... helped things along with a combination of ale (in high quantities), desperate match-making parents (or siblings, or best friends, or a psychotic intelligent sword), kidnappings, life-threatening diseases, sudden gusts of wind while on a ship, and... I think you get the picture. And it's kinda fun seeing the player-characters go :eek: when they they suddenly find themselves in certain positions with certain NPCs :D
PiedmonSama 01-29-07, 03:08 AM	For players, it could not be immature, but it could be due to their up-bringing or culture. Imagine a player from a Muslim/very patriarchal household or institution/etc. who would find playing a different gender odd at best, insulting at worst. They may not like the idea of a woman going out on adventures and not performing their "roles" at home. What I think a Muslim might find insulting was if someone assumed that because they're from a "patriarchal" culture they would be unable to "handle" the idea of a female adventurer..... the ones who interpret their religion that way aren't probably going to be playing D&D anyway....
Gwenfloor 01-29-07, 02:45 PM	What I think a Muslim might find insulting was if someone assumed that because they're from a "patriarchal" culture they would be unable to "handle" the idea of a female adventurer..... the ones who interpret their religion that way aren't probably going to be playing D&D anyway.... Oops, I am sorry, I was referring the latter of what you said (the bold one). I edited my last post to clear that up. I edited my last post to clear things up.
ragoftag 02-01-07, 07:02 PM	obrysii wrote: I find female characters are almost easier to play, because it's easier to distance myself from the character (and therefore metagame less).This is very true, similar to my playing a suave and charming elf! A smelly dwarf? Meta all the way!:schemes:
High Octane 02-01-07, 08:14 PM	Chivalry is dead. And women killed it. -Gallagher
itwasntme 02-01-07, 08:27 PM	just to play around of course, u can't say that u've never played or thought about playing a female character (and vice versa for chicks) ive tought about not playing a female character so i guess this is true
itwasntme 02-01-07, 08:40 PM	Normoly females get picked on becouse A) The players are board doing something and want to create there own fun they see the female character and go "hey cool i can make my players RP a bit" B) The players are retarded C) They just dount like the female D) The Female is dressed like a harlet E) The Group is perverted F) The Female isnt getting picked on anymore then the Male is in the group just the males seem to be able to handol it just fine so the Females get picked on as well yes there is no same picking on type methood (Like calling one person fat and the Female a harlet Both is negitive but the Female is more Harsh) One point tho is that in a party someones allways getting picked on tho when its the female most people seem to pick it up more and tend to pay more attation to it if it was the guy they dount realy pay attation to it
Arkonth 02-02-07, 02:43 PM	I'm playing a female character at the moment (male player) and haven't had any problems with my group at all. The character is female because the gender made more sense for the particular brand of fear/strength good/evil emotional turmoil I had in mind for her. Frankly, femininity is vital to her makeup, but the rest of the party wouldn't dare take liberties or make implications (Jill's scary). She's shown romantic interest in one other member of the party, but keeps it at the level of "shy teenage crush." Out of character, occasionally we'll make jokes at her expense, but no more than we do of any of the other character's foibles and stereotypes.
Sakaki22 02-02-07, 03:49 PM	I only played in one all-male group as a female character, High Elf Ranger of Mielekki. The only character that looked at me beyond "Noble Elf Warrior" or "Fine contribution to the party" was the male Human Ranger of Mielekki. Before I ever joined the campaign, his characters life goal was to become Elven (He had some Elven blood, I assume a Half-Elf parent), and literally saw me as an example of what he wanted to become, and almost idolized me. He made a few advances, but kept up the noble "I would never tarnish our adventuring party with sexual advances!" bit, but he willingly wanted to bathe with her more than once. But it didn't cause stress or tension between players. We were all good actors about it, and I had a load of fun.
Thevail 02-02-07, 04:34 PM	I think this still seems a little bizarre, would any of you like to see your sisters dealt with this way?! On the other hand, are all these female characters NPC's? Who is playing these utter wimps and the rest of the misogynistic crew? If my party started really trying to force my character to do all the dirty or dangerous work because I was female there'd be more than one set of steaming entrails on the floor, and if it continued the DM's might well join them.