Fighter help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Fighter help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chinchy_mcchilla
03-16-06, 06:53 PM Next week, I am beginning play in a new campaign. I am a relative newcomer to D&D, I have played several times, but have usually played with DMs who are very easy on their players. However, the other players in this new campaign have informed me that this DMs campaigns are "challenging" to say the very least. So, I need help creating an excellent fighter, with the stipulation that he must be dwarven (we are all part of a dwarven adventure company). I am not above using a "twink", but am not familiar enough with the rules to make one... anyone feel like giving a relative newbie a hand?
Mitchell
03-16-06, 10:39 PM The character optimization boards would be the place to go if you're looking for the uber-fighter.
I have alot of things I might give as advice, but I'm having trouble making them sound right when I type them out. I might check in and try again later.
chinchy_mcchilla
03-16-06, 10:46 PM Ah, Thank you, Im sorry, I'm also new to these boards, but I appreciate the advice, I'll take it to the correct place. In the meantime, if you do think of a way to explain, I'd love to hear from you.
TheChilliGod
03-16-06, 11:41 PM Being new, just make sure you don't dive too deep into the options those Character Optimization guys will give you. Many of them will involve feats, prestige classes and whatever that are from books outside of the core 3, and you may not have even heard of them.

As for my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a straight dwarven fighter with power attack, improved sunder, cleave etc. for feats; wielding a greataxe and in full plate. That in itself is hard to kill.
kelvinaw273
03-16-06, 11:52 PM Well, dwarven fighters tend to be direct and to the point. The stereotypical dwarf fighter has high strength, high con (if you are using points based abilities) and low charisma. At first level most would take the feats Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Dwarven Waraxe) and Cleave. At higher levels add Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Great Cleave and Power Attack.

However, there are variations. If other players have dwarven fighters, try something a little different:

Ranger. Dwarven rangers are often called Cavers and specialise in fighting underground creatures and in feats that help them do so. Fighting with a pair of handaxes might make a refreshing change to dwarven war-axes, too.

Archer. A heavy crossbow is a very effective (and dwarfish) weapon, and Rapid Reload makes it worthwhile to use. If the rest of the party are focussing on traditional dwarf melee fighters, you can add the ranged punch.

Paladin. Dwarves have them, after all.

Monk. This isn't usual for dwarves, but again - why not? A dwarf monk might rely more on strength than speed, but that can still be effective.

Samurai. This class is well suited to dwarves as well.

You can get a lot of options available, if you look for them.
JacksonCash
03-17-06, 11:14 AM A while back I was playing NWN online, and while the rules are different from 3.5, I went with a dwarven monk/DD/weaponmaster, used a greatsword. Monk levels were mostly for resistances and immunities. Turned out to be a decent build, I'd like to try it in a real campaign. Alas, I mostly DM so he will be relegated to the life of an NPC.

Also, a Halbred-weilding Dwarven Paladin with maybe a bit of DD mixed in could be schweet.
Salty_Boy
03-17-06, 11:36 AM Well, dwarven fighters tend to be direct and to the point. The stereotypical dwarf fighter has high strength, high con (if you are using points based abilities) and low charisma. At first level all are given the feats Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Dwarven Waraxe) as a racial bonus, for free...

Fixed, so as not to confuse the new guy.
R2
03-17-06, 12:03 PM If you have the book Races of Stone, check in the back for Racial Substitution Levels. Dwarf Fighter is one option available there.

Basically, a normal Fighter gets a d10 hit die and a Bonus Feat at level one, then another d10 hit die and another Bonus Feat at level 2.

The Dwarven Fighter Racial Substitution bumps the hit die up to d12, giving you a little extra stamina. At first level, you trade your Bonus Feat in for what is, essentially, Weapon Focus (+1 to hit) in all types of axes. At second level, you trade your Bonus Feat for a +2 bonus to damage with every melee attack against all giants, goblinoids, and kobolds (I think). Remember that "giants" includes villainous standbys like ogres and trolls, too.

Alternately, you can take the Dwarf Paragon class (I think it's in Unearthed Arcana). You get a d10 hit die and your BAB and saving throws proceed just as if you were a Fighter, and while your skills are different, your weapon and armor proficiencies are not. Instead of Fighter Bonus Feats, you get improvements to your racial abilities (Stonecunning, powered-up saves against poison and spells, and Constitution). And of course, after you take a level or three of Dwarf Paragon, you can always switch over to Fighter (even Racial Substitution Fighter, as above) and pick up those Bonus Feats (or extra abilities).
Here's a link to the d20srd.org page for Dwarf Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#dwarfParagon)

But if you want to keep it simple, then as mentioned before: high STR, high CON, the biggest axe or hammer you can find, heavy armor, Power Attack, Weapon Focus, and Cleave.

Monk. This isn't usual for dwarves, but again - why not? A dwarf monk might rely more on strength than speed, but that can still be effective.
I'll second that. Dwarves are Medium-sized and typically strong, so your unarmed damage would be as good as any club or hammer. Monks get a bonus to overcome one of the Dwarf's greatest weaknesses, their 20ft/round basic Speed. Your saving throws from a Monk are good, and the Dwarven racial bonus would make you very hard to harm. The free Improved Grapple and/or Improved Trip would make this build something to fear -- and open you up for Reaping Mauler prestige class from Complete Warrior later in your adventuring career, something I personally consider a "dwarfy" class. It just seems to suit their style.
Evil DM Mk3
03-17-06, 12:05 PM Sorry but their are a few problems with this advice.
At first level most would take the feats Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Dwarven Waraxe) and Cleave. At higher levels add Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Great Cleave and Power Attack. No need for exotic weapon prof as dwarves get it as a martial weapon. Also cleave needs power attack.
Ranger. Dwarven rangers are often called Cavers and specialise in fighting underground creatures and in feats that help them do so. Fighting with a pair of handaxes might make a refreshing change to dwarven war-axes, too.

Archer. A heavy crossbow is a very effective (and dwarfish) weapon, and Rapid Reload makes it worthwhile to use. If the rest of the party are focussing on traditional dwarf melee fighters, you can add the ranged punch.

Paladin. Dwarves have them, after all.

Monk. This isn't usual for dwarves, but again - why not? A dwarf monk might rely more on strength than speed, but that can still be effective.

Samurai. This class is well suited to dwarves as well.

This is all valid advice but dont waste feats on the heavy crossbow, unless you are using non-core material (in which case go for it) you will never get the reload time bellow a move action. In addition you will NEVER get your strength bonus. Heavy crossbow is a deacent weapon at lower levels but once you want to be able to get more than one bolt off an encounter a Mighty compasite longbow is a MUCH better weapon and I can't see how it is any less dwarvish, especially if it is made of laminated metal strips rather than wood and has pulley/wheel mechnisms like modern day bows.

As for classes, ranger gets scary underground with darkvison and a pair of axes. Paladins are easier on a dice roll generation, go for it if you get about 4 scores above 13, make shre you cha is decent and for Mordian's sake TALK TO YOUR DM ABOUT A PALADIN'S CODE. Get him to write it down. Remember that very few paladins (or rather setting with them in) will take "only following orders" as an excuse. Dwarf monks rock so hard it hurts, but sammurai is Compleate Warrior (not core) and has been questioned as to its playability, especially when you consider that fleeing is traditionally considered to be a slight on a Samurai's honour requiring suicide, and about one in every 20 D&D encounters is suposed to be run away from (based on the advice in the DMG about encounter levels.).

If you do decide to go for a full plate and dwarven waraxe fighter, a solid choice in mnay ways, in fact it was one of my first and favourate chars, a tower shield can be very usfull. If you want to think about PrCs then the Dwarven defneder fits this build idea quite well. There is no mechanical reason for a dwarf who does not take skills/class abilites with armour cheack, arcane spell failure or armour limitations NOT to wear full plate. This is uniqe. But dwarves, unlike humans, elves, gnomes and fary pictsies (yes I spelt that right) don't go slower in heavy armour. Never forget this!

In an all dwarf party playing the hard man gets harder, so you may want to consider picking up magic items (when they roll your way) focused around getting that AC and Con into the stratopher, possibly at the expnce of strength. Remember the longer it takes to wear down the tank (or roead block for a dwarven defender, don't move much) the longer the spellcasters get with magic unhindered. At earlier levels this isnt ture as magic is limited but at later levels they will thank you for it.

As a fighter there is no reason not to plug to get whirlwind attack early, but stuff like improved dissarm or improved bullrush (I prefer dissarm, lisses the enamy right off and you usually get the attack back as an attack of oportunity when to pickes up the disarmed weapon) are very good if you want to look at those rules CAREFULLY. Nothign anoys a DM like "I wanna sunder" "ok, make your rolls" "wat rolls do I gotta make?".

By the way be carfull if you chose sunder, that is your treasure you is smashing!
Surgo
03-17-06, 12:31 PM Dwarves generally make the best straight fighters, mostly because of that PrC from Races of Stone (can't recall the name) that gives you con to AC instead of dex. So basically you get:
Fighter 4/PrC x (until bonus)/Dwarven Defender 10.

Don't waste your feats on complete garbage like Great Cleave. You'll need things like Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack if you can make it work in heavy armor, etc.
Bruunwald
03-17-06, 04:38 PM You guys are totally going to confuse the new guy. Okay, he's not that new, but he still needs straight-ahead help, not uber-five-book-build.

Chinchy, listen to ChilliGod and ignore these other guys. Stick with the tough, tried-and-true basics for your first guy of a challenging campaign. You can't go wrong with what Chilli gave you, and if this turns out to be a complicated, challenging DM, you might be happier with this straight-ahead character.
Ryusage
03-17-06, 07:09 PM Ok, I'll try to keep this simple and stick to the cores.

Basically you have two easy options:

Option 1) Tank: Grab that Dwarven Waraxe and charge into battle. Get your teammates to back you up with range, magic, etc.

Option 2) Ranger: Your shortbow will do to start, but as soon as you can get a composite longbow and shoot down those enemies. Get feats like Point Blank Shot and get decent armour (full plate works) so it's no biggie if the baddies get close to you.
Evil DM Mk3
03-18-06, 10:36 AM I will simplfy my advice.

Play a dwarven fighter

Grab a dwarven war axe.

Grab a tower shield.

Grab full plate.

Get power attack, dodge and combat expertice.

Get feats based on those feats.

Frustrate your DM by pulling the weapons out of your oponents hands all the time and carring a chunk of cover.

Protect the spellcasters.

Help the rogue flank.

Drink lots of ale.
taradusis
03-18-06, 06:10 PM Dwarven barbarians are not unknown ,toughness +dwarven waraxe ,be the last one standing if you have the most hp?
Surgo
03-18-06, 08:13 PM Why would you want to pick up Dodge? If you're wearing a full plate and a tower shield, you don't want to have a dexterity of 13.
taradusis
03-18-06, 08:52 PM uncanny dodge ,not dodge and is part of a feat tree.rageadds str.+4,con+4,will+2,-2ac.D12vsd10.great axe for offence eliminates tower shield anyway.And how is this dm challenging?Will he use a rust monster or heat metal against a party of dwarves wearing their standard 80 lbs of metal?If this group is 1st level they may not be able to afford to turn themselves slow-moving targets anyhow.Draw up two dwarves and see how they run through a solo challenge,maybe?Get more info from other players before deciding.!!!!!
Surgo
03-18-06, 09:23 PM Barbarian is generally pointless for a standard dwarf as you lose most of your benefits in heavy armor. I'd consider it if it was starting out at a level where I could afford mithril fullplate, but otherwise I'd just go fighter and PrC as soon as possible.
Evil DM Mk3
03-19-06, 04:25 AM Dex 13 to qualify for hte maximum possible dex bonus.

Dex 13 for dodge.

Dodge for mobility.

Mobility for Spring attack.

Spring attack for whirlwind attack.

As a fighter you have to think in terns of feat chains right from level 1.

Also dwarven barbarians are a very good choice, just don't wear heavy armour. But the fighter I keep describing is an AC monkey. The barbarian, a Str fiend.
Asciiman
03-19-06, 05:28 AM For the price of four feats, Whirlwind Attack is NEVER worth it. Power attack and cleave. If you get dodge, go with Dwarven Defender, a prestige class in the DMG.

NEVER go with Whirlwind Attack, any DM worth have his weight in salt, will be tactically savy enough to almost never let you use it.
taradusis
03-19-06, 07:32 AM This dm has asked for an all dwarf party for a reason,I would avoid being the stereotypical dwarf for just that reason.This dm will probably use rust monsters,heat metal and area effect spells on this party,a barbarian who moves twice as fast as the rest of his party and is dressed in leather may survive ,and with a bucket of HP from his d12,high CON and rage ability he'll be hard to take out in a non-melee combat,which does still occur in some games :)
chinchy_mcchilla
03-19-06, 12:41 PM Sorry for being lax in replying, I've been over on the optimization board trying to decipher the allmost incomprehensible advice given over there. Everything you guys have said has been great, I now essentially have to choose between an allmost straight fighter or the uber six class build suggested over there :P . I will say that three things have been mentioned innumerable times: dwarven paragon, deepwarden (class that gives con to AC) and dwarven defender, so I may use one or a combination of these. Also, at the very least the "drink lots of ale" idea will be followed.
taradusis
04-02-06, 12:18 PM So did you survive the sneaky and tough dm?Did he hit you with rust monsters,heat metal and area effect spells like I thought? :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chinchy_mcchilla 03-16-06, 06:53 PM	Next week, I am beginning play in a new campaign. I am a relative newcomer to D&D, I have played several times, but have usually played with DMs who are very easy on their players. However, the other players in this new campaign have informed me that this DMs campaigns are "challenging" to say the very least. So, I need help creating an excellent fighter, with the stipulation that he must be dwarven (we are all part of a dwarven adventure company). I am not above using a "twink", but am not familiar enough with the rules to make one... anyone feel like giving a relative newbie a hand?
Mitchell 03-16-06, 10:39 PM	The character optimization boards would be the place to go if you're looking for the uber-fighter. I have alot of things I might give as advice, but I'm having trouble making them sound right when I type them out. I might check in and try again later.
chinchy_mcchilla 03-16-06, 10:46 PM	Ah, Thank you, Im sorry, I'm also new to these boards, but I appreciate the advice, I'll take it to the correct place. In the meantime, if you do think of a way to explain, I'd love to hear from you.
TheChilliGod 03-16-06, 11:41 PM	Being new, just make sure you don't dive too deep into the options those Character Optimization guys will give you. Many of them will involve feats, prestige classes and whatever that are from books outside of the core 3, and you may not have even heard of them. As for my opinion, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a straight dwarven fighter with power attack, improved sunder, cleave etc. for feats; wielding a greataxe and in full plate. That in itself is hard to kill.
kelvinaw273 03-16-06, 11:52 PM	Well, dwarven fighters tend to be direct and to the point. The stereotypical dwarf fighter has high strength, high con (if you are using points based abilities) and low charisma. At first level most would take the feats Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Dwarven Waraxe) and Cleave. At higher levels add Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Great Cleave and Power Attack. However, there are variations. If other players have dwarven fighters, try something a little different: Ranger. Dwarven rangers are often called Cavers and specialise in fighting underground creatures and in feats that help them do so. Fighting with a pair of handaxes might make a refreshing change to dwarven war-axes, too. Archer. A heavy crossbow is a very effective (and dwarfish) weapon, and Rapid Reload makes it worthwhile to use. If the rest of the party are focussing on traditional dwarf melee fighters, you can add the ranged punch. Paladin. Dwarves have them, after all. Monk. This isn't usual for dwarves, but again - why not? A dwarf monk might rely more on strength than speed, but that can still be effective. Samurai. This class is well suited to dwarves as well. You can get a lot of options available, if you look for them.
JacksonCash 03-17-06, 11:14 AM	A while back I was playing NWN online, and while the rules are different from 3.5, I went with a dwarven monk/DD/weaponmaster, used a greatsword. Monk levels were mostly for resistances and immunities. Turned out to be a decent build, I'd like to try it in a real campaign. Alas, I mostly DM so he will be relegated to the life of an NPC. Also, a Halbred-weilding Dwarven Paladin with maybe a bit of DD mixed in could be schweet.
Salty_Boy 03-17-06, 11:36 AM	Well, dwarven fighters tend to be direct and to the point. The stereotypical dwarf fighter has high strength, high con (if you are using points based abilities) and low charisma. At first level all are given the feats Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Dwarven Waraxe) as a racial bonus, for free... Fixed, so as not to confuse the new guy.
R2 03-17-06, 12:03 PM	If you have the book Races of Stone, check in the back for Racial Substitution Levels. Dwarf Fighter is one option available there. Basically, a normal Fighter gets a d10 hit die and a Bonus Feat at level one, then another d10 hit die and another Bonus Feat at level 2. The Dwarven Fighter Racial Substitution bumps the hit die up to d12, giving you a little extra stamina. At first level, you trade your Bonus Feat in for what is, essentially, Weapon Focus (+1 to hit) in all types of axes. At second level, you trade your Bonus Feat for a +2 bonus to damage with every melee attack against all giants, goblinoids, and kobolds (I think). Remember that "giants" includes villainous standbys like ogres and trolls, too. Alternately, you can take the Dwarf Paragon class (I think it's in Unearthed Arcana). You get a d10 hit die and your BAB and saving throws proceed just as if you were a Fighter, and while your skills are different, your weapon and armor proficiencies are not. Instead of Fighter Bonus Feats, you get improvements to your racial abilities (Stonecunning, powered-up saves against poison and spells, and Constitution). And of course, after you take a level or three of Dwarf Paragon, you can always switch over to Fighter (even Racial Substitution Fighter, as above) and pick up those Bonus Feats (or extra abilities). Here's a link to the d20srd.org page for Dwarf Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#dwarfParagon) But if you want to keep it simple, then as mentioned before: high STR, high CON, the biggest axe or hammer you can find, heavy armor, Power Attack, Weapon Focus, and Cleave. Monk. This isn't usual for dwarves, but again - why not? A dwarf monk might rely more on strength than speed, but that can still be effective. I'll second that. Dwarves are Medium-sized and typically strong, so your unarmed damage would be as good as any club or hammer. Monks get a bonus to overcome one of the Dwarf's greatest weaknesses, their 20ft/round basic Speed. Your saving throws from a Monk are good, and the Dwarven racial bonus would make you very hard to harm. The free Improved Grapple and/or Improved Trip would make this build something to fear -- and open you up for Reaping Mauler prestige class from Complete Warrior later in your adventuring career, something I personally consider a "dwarfy" class. It just seems to suit their style.
Evil DM Mk3 03-17-06, 12:05 PM	Sorry but their are a few problems with this advice. At first level most would take the feats Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Dwarven Waraxe) and Cleave. At higher levels add Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Great Cleave and Power Attack. No need for exotic weapon prof as dwarves get it as a martial weapon. Also cleave needs power attack. Ranger. Dwarven rangers are often called Cavers and specialise in fighting underground creatures and in feats that help them do so. Fighting with a pair of handaxes might make a refreshing change to dwarven war-axes, too. Archer. A heavy crossbow is a very effective (and dwarfish) weapon, and Rapid Reload makes it worthwhile to use. If the rest of the party are focussing on traditional dwarf melee fighters, you can add the ranged punch. Paladin. Dwarves have them, after all. Monk. This isn't usual for dwarves, but again - why not? A dwarf monk might rely more on strength than speed, but that can still be effective. Samurai. This class is well suited to dwarves as well. This is all valid advice but dont waste feats on the heavy crossbow, unless you are using non-core material (in which case go for it) you will never get the reload time bellow a move action. In addition you will NEVER get your strength bonus. Heavy crossbow is a deacent weapon at lower levels but once you want to be able to get more than one bolt off an encounter a Mighty compasite longbow is a MUCH better weapon and I can't see how it is any less dwarvish, especially if it is made of laminated metal strips rather than wood and has pulley/wheel mechnisms like modern day bows. As for classes, ranger gets scary underground with darkvison and a pair of axes. Paladins are easier on a dice roll generation, go for it if you get about 4 scores above 13, make shre you cha is decent and for Mordian's sake TALK TO YOUR DM ABOUT A PALADIN'S CODE. Get him to write it down. Remember that very few paladins (or rather setting with them in) will take "only following orders" as an excuse. Dwarf monks rock so hard it hurts, but sammurai is Compleate Warrior (not core) and has been questioned as to its playability, especially when you consider that fleeing is traditionally considered to be a slight on a Samurai's honour requiring suicide, and about one in every 20 D&D encounters is suposed to be run away from (based on the advice in the DMG about encounter levels.). If you do decide to go for a full plate and dwarven waraxe fighter, a solid choice in mnay ways, in fact it was one of my first and favourate chars, a tower shield can be very usfull. If you want to think about PrCs then the Dwarven defneder fits this build idea quite well. There is no mechanical reason for a dwarf who does not take skills/class abilites with armour cheack, arcane spell failure or armour limitations NOT to wear full plate. This is uniqe. But dwarves, unlike humans, elves, gnomes and fary pictsies (yes I spelt that right) don't go slower in heavy armour. Never forget this! In an all dwarf party playing the hard man gets harder, so you may want to consider picking up magic items (when they roll your way) focused around getting that AC and Con into the stratopher, possibly at the expnce of strength. Remember the longer it takes to wear down the tank (or roead block for a dwarven defender, don't move much) the longer the spellcasters get with magic unhindered. At earlier levels this isnt ture as magic is limited but at later levels they will thank you for it. As a fighter there is no reason not to plug to get whirlwind attack early, but stuff like improved dissarm or improved bullrush (I prefer dissarm, lisses the enamy right off and you usually get the attack back as an attack of oportunity when to pickes up the disarmed weapon) are very good if you want to look at those rules CAREFULLY. Nothign anoys a DM like "I wanna sunder" "ok, make your rolls" "wat rolls do I gotta make?". By the way be carfull if you chose sunder, that is your treasure you is smashing!
Surgo 03-17-06, 12:31 PM	Dwarves generally make the best straight fighters, mostly because of that PrC from Races of Stone (can't recall the name) that gives you con to AC instead of dex. So basically you get: Fighter 4/PrC x (until bonus)/Dwarven Defender 10. Don't waste your feats on complete garbage like Great Cleave. You'll need things like Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack if you can make it work in heavy armor, etc.
Bruunwald 03-17-06, 04:38 PM	You guys are totally going to confuse the new guy. Okay, he's not that new, but he still needs straight-ahead help, not uber-five-book-build. Chinchy, listen to ChilliGod and ignore these other guys. Stick with the tough, tried-and-true basics for your first guy of a challenging campaign. You can't go wrong with what Chilli gave you, and if this turns out to be a complicated, challenging DM, you might be happier with this straight-ahead character.
Ryusage 03-17-06, 07:09 PM	Ok, I'll try to keep this simple and stick to the cores. Basically you have two easy options: Option 1) Tank: Grab that Dwarven Waraxe and charge into battle. Get your teammates to back you up with range, magic, etc. Option 2) Ranger: Your shortbow will do to start, but as soon as you can get a composite longbow and shoot down those enemies. Get feats like Point Blank Shot and get decent armour (full plate works) so it's no biggie if the baddies get close to you.
Evil DM Mk3 03-18-06, 10:36 AM	I will simplfy my advice. Play a dwarven fighter Grab a dwarven war axe. Grab a tower shield. Grab full plate. Get power attack, dodge and combat expertice. Get feats based on those feats. Frustrate your DM by pulling the weapons out of your oponents hands all the time and carring a chunk of cover. Protect the spellcasters. Help the rogue flank. Drink lots of ale.
taradusis 03-18-06, 06:10 PM	Dwarven barbarians are not unknown ,toughness +dwarven waraxe ,be the last one standing if you have the most hp?
Surgo 03-18-06, 08:13 PM	Why would you want to pick up Dodge? If you're wearing a full plate and a tower shield, you don't want to have a dexterity of 13.
taradusis 03-18-06, 08:52 PM	uncanny dodge ,not dodge and is part of a feat tree.rageadds str.+4,con+4,will+2,-2ac.D12vsd10.great axe for offence eliminates tower shield anyway.And how is this dm challenging?Will he use a rust monster or heat metal against a party of dwarves wearing their standard 80 lbs of metal?If this group is 1st level they may not be able to afford to turn themselves slow-moving targets anyhow.Draw up two dwarves and see how they run through a solo challenge,maybe?Get more info from other players before deciding.!!!!!
Surgo 03-18-06, 09:23 PM	Barbarian is generally pointless for a standard dwarf as you lose most of your benefits in heavy armor. I'd consider it if it was starting out at a level where I could afford mithril fullplate, but otherwise I'd just go fighter and PrC as soon as possible.
Evil DM Mk3 03-19-06, 04:25 AM	Dex 13 to qualify for hte maximum possible dex bonus. Dex 13 for dodge. Dodge for mobility. Mobility for Spring attack. Spring attack for whirlwind attack. As a fighter you have to think in terns of feat chains right from level 1. Also dwarven barbarians are a very good choice, just don't wear heavy armour. But the fighter I keep describing is an AC monkey. The barbarian, a Str fiend.
Asciiman 03-19-06, 05:28 AM	For the price of four feats, Whirlwind Attack is NEVER worth it. Power attack and cleave. If you get dodge, go with Dwarven Defender, a prestige class in the DMG. NEVER go with Whirlwind Attack, any DM worth have his weight in salt, will be tactically savy enough to almost never let you use it.
taradusis 03-19-06, 07:32 AM	This dm has asked for an all dwarf party for a reason,I would avoid being the stereotypical dwarf for just that reason.This dm will probably use rust monsters,heat metal and area effect spells on this party,a barbarian who moves twice as fast as the rest of his party and is dressed in leather may survive ,and with a bucket of HP from his d12,high CON and rage ability he'll be hard to take out in a non-melee combat,which does still occur in some games :)
chinchy_mcchilla 03-19-06, 12:41 PM	Sorry for being lax in replying, I've been over on the optimization board trying to decipher the allmost incomprehensible advice given over there. Everything you guys have said has been great, I now essentially have to choose between an allmost straight fighter or the uber six class build suggested over there :P . I will say that three things have been mentioned innumerable times: dwarven paragon, deepwarden (class that gives con to AC) and dwarven defender, so I may use one or a combination of these. Also, at the very least the "drink lots of ale" idea will be followed.
taradusis 04-02-06, 12:18 PM	So did you survive the sneaky and tough dm?Did he hit you with rust monsters,heat metal and area effect spells like I thought? :)