Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Musco 06-29-07, 03:40 PM	So just curious what would be your best estimate of what level a PC would need to be to take on a lich 1v1? Assuming proper gold value of items etc, likely with gear aimed at slaying undead. Class level progression being Rogue 1-3 Cleric 4-6 Legendary Leader 7 then either legendary leader levels or cleric there on out thoughts?
Forgotten_Warrior 06-29-07, 04:16 PM	You need to be at least on level twelve. It takes a level eleven character to make a lich, and lichdom only makes him tougher.
green_yawgmoth 06-29-07, 04:54 PM	A lich is minimum CR 13, so a group of lv 9 morons could try if they gave it everything they had that day. But I'd say lv 11 would be better. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Pegasos989 06-30-07, 10:39 AM	Lich can be CR 10. ;) Kobold adept 11 is CR 8, add lich for CR 10. Seriously, what class and level you want the lich to be?
Radijs 06-30-07, 11:41 AM	For a Lich it really depends a lot on indeed, the CR of the lich. The template adds something but its usually applied to at least a lvl 11 wizard. If the encounter starts at long range or if the lich is out of reach things can be a lot more dangerous then if the lich is in the same room as the party or opposing character. To really effectively judge it we'll need some more information.
green_yawgmoth 06-30-07, 02:25 PM	Lich can be CR 10. ;) Kobold adept 11 is CR 8, add lich for CR 10. Seriously, what class and level you want the lich to be? They have a sample kobold adept lich in Libris Mortis, in fact. They start out her description with "<name> may just be the weakest lich ever." :D http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
snakeman830 07-01-07, 12:23 PM	They have a sample kobold adept lich in Libris Mortis, in fact. They start out her description with "<name> may just be the weakest lich ever." :D http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif Sorry to nitpick, but that one's a goblin.
green_yawgmoth 07-01-07, 02:30 PM	Sorry to nitpick, but that one's a goblin.Is it? I haven't read the sample NPCs since I bought the book (when it came out), I just remembered it was a goofy race with an even goofier spellcasting class. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
northern_bear 07-01-07, 03:11 PM	Depends what level the Lich is, how stupid he is, how aware of the party he is, how well prepared the party is, and how min/maxed the party is. The thing about liches is, they're supposed to be smart. Very very smart. How tough they are depends largely on how smart the DM plays them. If the Lich has the wrong spells memorized, doesn't have his buffs up, and doesn't have any allies around, then I'd say a 5th level orc fighter, monk, or barbarian could kill him. Using basically the same tactics you'd use against any other spell caster. Put on your gaunlets +1. Then just run up to him and grapple him. If he doesn't have some means to escape the grapple, or some allies around to help him out, he's toast. Don't forget a lich is basically just a wizard with some nice imunities. None of those imunities help protects him against against a +1 fist to the side of the head. And none of his special abilities can help him escape a grapple. Unless he has stilled spells, he's up the creek. His unarmed attacks are almost never going to hit, and when they do, they deal a pathetic 1d8+5 damage. The only potential danager is the paralysis, so either make yourself imune to paralysis, make sure your fort saves are high, or make sure you don't get hit.
Chimaera2000 07-01-07, 04:01 PM	It depends. You could take one out at a fairly low level with the right build. A whisper gnome rogue/cleric/Shadowbane Inqusitor with the Penetrating Strike alternate class feature (Dungeonscape) and the Sun Devotion feat (Complete Champion) along with stealth-boosting gear could probably get the drop on the lich even with their bonuses to Listen and Spot. Hit them with a full attack with dual undead bane maces and you could smoke him pretty quickly. Come to think of it, it doesn't require nearly this much work. Build a cleric with the Sun domain or the Disciple of the Sun feat (Complete Divine), take the Improved Turning feat, then buy a phylactery of undead turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#phylacteryofUndeadTurn ing), a flametouched iron holy symbol (Eberron Campaign Setting), and a Moonfriend Ring (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft). Your feats and items improve your turning level by eight and I believe that you need to be level eight to afford those items. One Turn Undead later and he'll be dust. If the Lich has the wrong spells memorized, doesn't have his buffs up, and doesn't have any allies around, then I'd say a 5th level orc fighter, monk, or barbarian could kill him. Using basically the same tactics you'd use against any other spell caster. Put on your gaunlets +1. Then just run up to him and grapple him. If he doesn't have some means to escape the grapple, or some allies around to help him out, he's toast. Ooh, I hadn't thought about grappling him! Still, I'd imagine that most liches would have dimension door prepared to take care of this.
SokenzanMarauder 07-01-07, 07:49 PM	If the Lich has the wrong spells memorized, doesn't have his buffs up, and doesn't have any allies around, then I'd say a 5th level orc fighter, monk, or barbarian could kill him. Using basically the same tactics you'd use against any other spell caster. One word: Phylactery. -Gene
Tilakai 07-02-07, 09:14 AM	Arrow of disinagration. Good old undead killer.
runestar 07-03-07, 12:22 AM	Lich can be CR 10. Kobold adept 11 is CR 8, add lich for CR 10. The lowest cr lich I am aware of is cr4. Kobold warrior 4 with the dragonwrought feat (cr1, dragon type). Slap on the dracolich template for another cr+3.:D
Corpsekin 07-04-07, 01:16 AM	depends on the lich, says 11 lvl of spellcaster not 11 levels of wizard or sorceror, you can have a ranger lich or a black gaurd lich both of which would be ok in combat(and be able to use the lich's paralizing touch more effectivly)