Firing into combat... and cover bonus... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Firing into combat... and cover bonus... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
polarkrackin
09-17-04, 04:54 PM Ok, i was reading something about the best archer build and someone was saying how it makes perfect sense that there should be a cover bonus while fighting in close combat. Ok that does make sense, but i thought that is why you get a -4 in the first place for firing into combat...

Really though, ranged damage with a bow is not really that impressive compared to a casters ranged abilities, and they don't even have to pay for ammo (well components and so on). So they get a +4 ac for cover +4 ac for combat. So what's the deal with that... If the explanation is... becuase they are moving and swinging and so on... Bah whatever, if you were any good, you would wait until the silly ogre just swung his big old club, and as he is lifting that thing out of the ground or out of the fighters face... heh, you take they shot when they aren't moving around. So if anyone wants to use a bow even somewhat effectively, they need to take 2 feats!?! Well then... sounds pretty silly. The ranger core class doesn't give you those either i think... so much for a ranger using one of those things they call bows
FrogTheMighty
09-17-04, 05:01 PM actually the second -4 to hit is only if you are firing into melee and care if you hit the other target...
It doesn't explicitly say you can take no penalty, but I suppose if there are two hobgoblins duking it out and neither one is your friend...
Sildatorak
09-17-04, 05:24 PM People in close combat don't automatically get cover. They only get cover if your friend is blocking your shot. If your friends are smart they will flank the guy so that you have a clear shot. You'll still get -4 to attack for firing into melee, but you won't suffer any cover penalty.
jnrhayz
09-17-04, 05:46 PM Spellcasters have the same penalties for using ranged attack spells in combat also; also, if your buddies are fighting that close you aren't going to use an area effect spell and that only leaves touch spells and your wizard isn't going to want to get that close. so while they may do more damage with one spell, they have the same penalties and you have more attacks. So, unless the creature has DR, you should be doing close to the same damage (theorhetically).
Student Of The Mind
09-17-04, 07:01 PM Really though, ranged damage with a bow is not really that impressive compared to a casters ranged abilities,

Actually ranged damage can be disgustingly wicked. An archer/cleric build is really gross...A +5 composite longbow (+5 Str) of Speed is a nasty weapon to place in the hands of a skilled archer. If early in the build you take PBS, Rapid Shot, etc...Your character will be firing off 6 1d8+10 arrows, in addition to that your bow can be a "Bane Of The Balor" (bane of outsider: evil, bane of outsider: chaotic) adding 4d6 for each arrow (6 total) which hit their target. Now with the archer/cleric build you can buff with Divine Power and your BAB is that of a fighter, also at medium/high levels Divine Favor adds another +1 per three levels at a max of +6 (we'll go with +5 on this demo).

DISCLAIMER!
The above stated is remarks for a 20th lvl character, and is a bad case of metagaming. The above stated should not be allowed in a game, unless ultrapowerful characters are inevitable. Total damage (all arrows hitting, without criticals) is 6d8+90, against any Demon: 6d8+102+24d6 per full round six arrow volley. I think I would rather have that firing over my head than some silly wizards fireball, that can hurt me too! Comments created in this reply were not ment to offend, and well that's all I have to say about that.

Good day to you all.

P.S. The volley of bulls**t can also be extremely useful against any Chaotic Evil god :D Also...it could be argued that the weapon would be a +9 speed chaotic evil outsider slayer while wielded against chaotic evil outsiders, but I'm not gonna readjust my math. Thank you and good day! :tiphat:

P.S.S. On topic, Precise Shot takes care of that -4.
FriendoftheDork
09-19-04, 03:59 PM I think the issue has been answered. And yes, any archer worth his quiver has point blank shot, and anyone intending to fire close to his allies should have precise shot.
Perseus
09-20-04, 12:49 AM There is a sharpshooter feat and various PrC's that reduce cover bonuses.
ksbsnowowl
09-20-04, 12:56 AM There is a sharpshooter feat and various PrC's that reduce cover bonuses.And there's also the Improved Precise Shot feat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
polarkrackin 09-17-04, 04:54 PM	Ok, i was reading something about the best archer build and someone was saying how it makes perfect sense that there should be a cover bonus while fighting in close combat. Ok that does make sense, but i thought that is why you get a -4 in the first place for firing into combat... Really though, ranged damage with a bow is not really that impressive compared to a casters ranged abilities, and they don't even have to pay for ammo (well components and so on). So they get a +4 ac for cover +4 ac for combat. So what's the deal with that... If the explanation is... becuase they are moving and swinging and so on... Bah whatever, if you were any good, you would wait until the silly ogre just swung his big old club, and as he is lifting that thing out of the ground or out of the fighters face... heh, you take they shot when they aren't moving around. So if anyone wants to use a bow even somewhat effectively, they need to take 2 feats!?! Well then... sounds pretty silly. The ranger core class doesn't give you those either i think... so much for a ranger using one of those things they call bows
FrogTheMighty 09-17-04, 05:01 PM	actually the second -4 to hit is only if you are firing into melee and care if you hit the other target... It doesn't explicitly say you can take no penalty, but I suppose if there are two hobgoblins duking it out and neither one is your friend...
Sildatorak 09-17-04, 05:24 PM	People in close combat don't automatically get cover. They only get cover if your friend is blocking your shot. If your friends are smart they will flank the guy so that you have a clear shot. You'll still get -4 to attack for firing into melee, but you won't suffer any cover penalty.
jnrhayz 09-17-04, 05:46 PM	Spellcasters have the same penalties for using ranged attack spells in combat also; also, if your buddies are fighting that close you aren't going to use an area effect spell and that only leaves touch spells and your wizard isn't going to want to get that close. so while they may do more damage with one spell, they have the same penalties and you have more attacks. So, unless the creature has DR, you should be doing close to the same damage (theorhetically).
Student Of The Mind 09-17-04, 07:01 PM	Really though, ranged damage with a bow is not really that impressive compared to a casters ranged abilities, Actually ranged damage can be disgustingly wicked. An archer/cleric build is really gross...A +5 composite longbow (+5 Str) of Speed is a nasty weapon to place in the hands of a skilled archer. If early in the build you take PBS, Rapid Shot, etc...Your character will be firing off 6 1d8+10 arrows, in addition to that your bow can be a "Bane Of The Balor" (bane of outsider: evil, bane of outsider: chaotic) adding 4d6 for each arrow (6 total) which hit their target. Now with the archer/cleric build you can buff with Divine Power and your BAB is that of a fighter, also at medium/high levels Divine Favor adds another +1 per three levels at a max of +6 (we'll go with +5 on this demo). DISCLAIMER! The above stated is remarks for a 20th lvl character, and is a bad case of metagaming. The above stated should not be allowed in a game, unless ultrapowerful characters are inevitable. Total damage (all arrows hitting, without criticals) is 6d8+90, against any Demon: 6d8+102+24d6 per full round six arrow volley. I think I would rather have that firing over my head than some silly wizards fireball, that can hurt me too! Comments created in this reply were not ment to offend, and well that's all I have to say about that. Good day to you all. P.S. The volley of bulls**t can also be extremely useful against any Chaotic Evil god :D Also...it could be argued that the weapon would be a +9 speed chaotic evil outsider slayer while wielded against chaotic evil outsiders, but I'm not gonna readjust my math. Thank you and good day! :tiphat: P.S.S. On topic, Precise Shot takes care of that -4.
FriendoftheDork 09-19-04, 03:59 PM	I think the issue has been answered. And yes, any archer worth his quiver has point blank shot, and anyone intending to fire close to his allies should have precise shot.
Perseus 09-20-04, 12:49 AM	There is a sharpshooter feat and various PrC's that reduce cover bonuses.
ksbsnowowl 09-20-04, 12:56 AM	There is a sharpshooter feat and various PrC's that reduce cover bonuses.And there's also the Improved Precise Shot feat.