Post/Author/DateTime	Post
xvthreetwoonevx 05-11-06, 08:47 PM	I've been playing D&D for just over a year now, and I started with 3.5. It was pretty easy to learn, and i've since become pretty comfortable with the rules, so much so that now most of my group looks to me when they want to build a stronger character than what they normally do. However, our current DM's been grounded indefinitely, so we're starting up a new game with a new DM next week. From her mouth, it'll be a "mixture of 2nd Edition and AD&D". Most of the other players were weaned on 2nd Edition, and are all looking forward to it, the only one other than myself who's not played 2nd ed for quite some time (He didn't know that initiative was based on weapons when he looked through the manual...just a hunch, but he might have never played before either) is also looking forward to it. I've got no problems with it, but i've heard that 2nd Ed rules are tough to grasp for a beginner. So, basically i'm looking for a little advice: Are there any rules that are REALLY different from 3.5, or rules that I should keep in mind? Any general survival tips? Also, i'm not sure which class I ought to play, I'm tempted by a Fighter/Wizard multiclass, but i'm not sure how that'll survive. We'll be starting at first level, and i'm not sure where we'll end. Thanks.
Danarchy84 05-11-06, 09:12 PM	THAC0 is probably the biggest thing. The whole system is a mess and I could never get it straight without consulting the chart. Lower AC is better as is a lower attack. Why it took them so long to put together the current system I'll never know. I suggest you get yourself aquainted with that. Multiclasses are rather different in that you basically progress both (or all three) classes at the same time. Then it gets weird because humans have dual classes instead which is when you drop your current class and start a new one, losing all the benefits of the first class until you surpass it in the new class. Then you can never progress the first class again. Then there is of course the class restrictions on non-humans. Even then, it's rare to be able to qualify for anything aside from fighter, thief, mage, or cleric anyway. Proficiencies are kind of like skills and feats (but are technically optional, so your DM may not use them). Martial characters have a lot of weapon proficiencies and only a few nonweapon proficiencies, and characters like mages and the like have the opposite. Weapon proficiencies work basically the same as weapon proficiency feats do in 3rd edition. You get a set number and you choose whichever weapons (or weapon groups) you want (except for warriors, most classes have to choose from a certain list though). Nonweapon proficiencies are kind of like 3rd edition skills, but it's been a while so I can't remember exactly how they work. On the plus side, there are some cool things like gaining followers automatically at 9th or 10th level for some classes. Really, the main difference between 2nd and 3rd edition is that in 2nd, you have fun playing out your character's strengths and weaknesses you're stuck with while in 3rd edition, it's about having fun customizing a character to your specifications. That's probably not very helpful as I've not played a 2nd edition game in about 8 years and I only ever played 2-3, but that's my two cents.
moto 05-12-06, 12:54 AM	make sure you have at least 16 ( pref higher) in your main stat and that almost anything under 14 is worthless. At least thats what I remember.
Fozzytc 05-12-06, 01:53 AM	In 2nd edition the wizard had a maximum number of spells that could be learnt for a given spell level If memory serves me correctly an intelligence score of 14 would limit you to about 11 spells for each spell level. makes the spell selection for your wizard that much more important. THACo and AC are a real pain and Danarchy84 is right in saying you continually need to refer back to the tables, this can slow the combat somewhat Experience and character levelling is completely different. Wizards, rangers and paladins have the slowest level progression. If your looking at a fighter/Mage I think this limits you to basically an elf. That's about it off the top of my head. Enjoy the trip down memory lane
Varia 05-12-06, 03:12 AM	Thaco is one. Its not as complicated as many seem to think, but its certainly different than 3.5 Saving throws are sort of another. Same general thing as 3.5 in that you roll a d20 and add your various modifiers for magic and possibly stats, but the target number you need to beat is based directly on your class(es) and levels, rather than being set by the capabilities of the caster of the spell, and class and level providing further modifiers to the roll. WARNING- failing saving throws against a good number of the various types of directly damaging effects/spells requires saves for ALL your exposed gear, rather than just the 1 or 2 items that 3.5 requires. So beware of fireballs etc. Also- potions are vulnerable to destruction when exposed to dispel magic. Inquire about lead-lined potion boxes to protect them from that. That is, find out if the DM accepts the idea of lead protecting against magic (Its a common, but non-RAW house rule) and if so then buy a suitable box. Also, investing in a good, multi-layered box for your spellbooks is a good idea. A wood/metal/padding/ceramic combo in a leather cover works pretty well to protect you from nuking carnage. Spellcasting- there is no concentration skill in 1/2.0, so if you dont wanna be nuked then shoot enemy spellcasters in the face when they try to cast. This applies to players casting spells as well, so be warned. Note that divine spells usually take longer to cast than arcane spells so theyre more vulnerable to interruption if youre not careful. Stats- as has been noted, stats of less than 15 are mostly bonus-less, so be aware. They can have some uses (weight-carrying capacity, and low-level divine caster spell bonuses forinstance), but in general you need at least a 15 to make a difference. Actually, specifically, 16+ in strength, 15+ for dec or con, 12+ for wisdom. Int affects how many spells you can successfully learn and your chances of success in each learning attempt but does not provide bonus spells per day, so its less important for day to day mechanics. As in 3.5, you do need a certain minimum int or wis for the top-end spells so its important for that though. Death- I did not really pay too much attention to changes 2.0 may have made, but in 1.0 death = bad. Speaking for 1.0- Most methods of raising the dead will slowly drain your con. Those that dont will age the caster of the spell. This is permanent damage. It cannot be repaired. You can get a boost to your stats from various (usually very limited) methods, but thats adding new stat points, not repairing old damaged points. Likewise, aging can be rejuvenated to some extent, but all normal methods are of very limited long-term effectiveness, and is real rejuvenation, not merely repairing of old damage. The combination of limited resurrections and limited rejuvenation are powerful mechanics to keep players cautious. Finding out asap how much of this is applicable to the specific campaign you'll be playing in would be a good plan. On the plus side, everyone gets followers, if they want them and set up a base somewhere. I'm sure there is more but that will do for now. Feel free to ask if you have questions. :) *Hugs* Varia
2nd Ed Paladin 05-12-06, 02:30 PM	Some key things about combat: Initiative as you metioned is different in 2ed. It is rolled on a d10 and adjusted for your initiative modifer (based on dex). This is your base initiative. If you use a weapon your "weapon speed" is added to the base initiative (ie 2 handed sword in +10), if you cast a spell the spell's casting time is added to your initiative. As mentioned above there is no concentration skill in 2ed. To disrupt a spellcaster they need to be damaged between their base initiative count and the initiative count they cast their spell. For example, on initiative count 5 a wizard starts casting a fireball, which has a casting time of three(?). On initiative count 7 a fighter attacks the wizard. Should he hit the wizard the spell is disrupted, if he misses the fireball is cast on initiative count 8. AC in 2ed starts at 10, just like 3.5, however increases to your armour decrease your AC. I seem to recall -10 being the best AC you could get. ThAC0 isn't that hard actually (stands for To Hit AC 0): Each class's Thaco starts at 20 and gets reduced as you level up. For example Jozan the fighter has a thaco of 15 and is fighting an Orc with an AC of 4. To determine what he needs to roll he subtracts the AC from his Thaco, he needs an 11 to hit the Orc (15-4). That is combat in a nutshell. The other posts are fairly accurate about the non-combat differences.
xvthreetwoonevx 05-13-06, 04:36 PM	Thanks for everyone's help so far. I think most of the rules changes shouldn't be too hard to handle, and the way the stats work make me sad, but i'll manage :P. Does anyone have any advice on what class/race to play? I know in 3.5 at lower levels melee classes survive well and dish out the most damage at lower levels, but then become basically useless as anything but meatshields past 10th. Does this still hold true for 2nd ed, or are fighters useful all the way through? I'm thinking about playing a Druid or something, kind of looking for that 'tribal shaman' concept, but I'd prefer not to die within the first three levls, and the low HP's of the druid don't bode well for that. Anything else that'll still fit the concept but not die immediately?
Treebore 05-14-06, 03:43 AM	Don't worry, if she is a good DM you'll "get" the most important thing. Have a blast playing out a great story. Just try not to get hung up on how much better/worse "x" edition is, concentrate on playing a fun game. Of course you could always play my fav RPG, Castles and Crusades. Has positive AC and saves, plus is much simpler and doesn't limit you to doing only what the feats and skills you have allow you to do. Your character can try to do anything the DM allows you to, whether you have a feat or skill, or not. Plus it is easy to use my 1 and 2E adventures and material. My 3E stuff is only a little more challenging to convert for use.
Edwind 05-14-06, 04:47 AM	Funny story... I was talking to someone who has only played 2nd ed, and I was explaining the rules to him from 3.5 and I swear he almost wet himself when I told him you could have a modifier have +4. Personally I would go insane if I had to play 2nd ed, unless it was a heavy HEAVY rping game. Things like weapons actually having their own size (may or may not be 2nd ed). I got into an hour long arguement about why a large greatclub deals so and so because its a Large weapon, but then he's always saying its always a large weapon and it always deals so and so amount of damage. A quick question about which version he was talking about solved it..But again, I don't think I could handle it. "Yay, I just got 13,14,13,16,15,14 for my rolls" "None of those have any modifiers..." "Oh....Darnit."
FriendoftheDork 05-14-06, 08:26 AM	I must admit I'm also a child of 3rd edition. I have played 2nd ed AD&D before, but not much and most of my knowledge of it comes from the CRPG Baldur's Gate. Stats: Yes unfortunately you need very high stats for them to matter. On the good side, since excelent stats are so rare in the world you can play a fighter with 10 in all stats and still not suck overly much. Exactly what gives bonuses depends from stat to stat - a 15 dex gives -1 to AC I think, while a 16 con gives +2 hp/lvl. Strength is the strangest one, as it gives bonus to damage first, and an 18 gives +2 to hit and +5 to damage or something. If you manage to get 19, 20, 21 etc your bonus to hit and damage will increase a hell of alot! Overall, the game is alot more low-powered, although some spells and monsters are way unbalanced. Low level wizards sucks big time, but are in turn even more powerful at high levels because of unbalanced spells. If you want power this is the way to go, but it requires patience. Warriors gives the best range of weapons and armor, and you get specialization wich gives you more attacks per round even at 1st level. (1.5 attacks). Clerics are better spellcasters but far worse buffers. Their weapon selection is more limited, and since weapon damage matters alot more in 2nd ed than str bonus and power attack, this means they will never get as tough as warriors in melee. Thieves are weak in combat but have excelent skills. They have backstab, but it is not much (x2 damage for a long time)and can only be used through stealth. Their main advantage is that they level almost twice as fast as the other party members, even getting xp for go found :) I'd probably play a Thief. Races: Most are weaker than they were. Humans have no advantages but lack of disadvantages. They can become higher level than elves etc. and are an OK choise. They can't multiclass though, and dual-classing sucks as you lose class abilities until the second class is the same level as the first class. Then they're pretty tough. Only humans can chose any class. Elves have +1 dex -1 con and some advantages when multiclassing (excelent fighter/mage and thief/mage). This makes them initially strong, but they advance in levels very slowly and have level caps. Dwarves are tough. +1 con and -1 dex I think. Magic resistance is nice. I can't remember drawbacks but they have some. Halflings are pretty weak, but could be fun to play. Good thieves but that's it. Well that's all. Ask your DM for more tips and info.
RogerWilco 05-14-06, 12:20 PM	Stats: below 8 is generally bad, above 14 is good, in between doesn't matter much. Try to have at least 16 in your primary stat, esp. when playing a humanoid, as it determines the maximum level they can attain in their class. Classes: The classes are less balanced as in 3rd edition, some of the more powerful ones (ranger) have prerequisites like PrCs in 3rd. Multiclassing is fun if you have high numbers in the necessary stats (16+). The spellcasters definately rule at the higher levels, more so as in 3rd edition. Races: All are fun, humans are the least poweful, elves the most. If you play a halfling (thief), make sure that your DM allows you to be the 30% with infravision. Movement s***s for dwarves, halflings and gnomes. Playability: You'll need the books, much more as in 3rd, as everything is basically one big look-up table. In all the game is less predictable, and slower. Combat will have more rounds, initiative is more bookkeeping depending on the system used (there are several) Keep your DM as far away from the "Players Options: Combat&Tactics" book as possible. It's fatigue system is the worst thing that can happen to you, the combat round system is no better. Skills are only available to the thief(rogue), Ranger and Bard (I think) but they max out at 95%, which means that you always have at least 5% chance to fail. Play an Elf Wizard/Fighter if you have good intelligence, constitution and strenght. Multiclassing in 2nd edition is very powerful, as you are basically only 1 level behind the party in both classes, sometimes even the same level. THE BIG DRAWBACK of multiclassing is that your HP will be down the drain, you'll gain an average 1-2 hp/level. It's fun if you have a high enough CON to get bonus HP. In short the choices you should (and CAN make because of prereq.) depend a lot on what stats you have. 3 stats >= 16 -> multiclass with the highest stat in CON 2 stats >= 16 -> Ranger, Druid, Bard, maybe Cleric 1 stat >= 16 -> single class, whatever you like. Any race with Infravision is very handy. I played a Halfling thief with STR8, DEX18, CON13, INT9, WIS9, CHA8. This worked until about level 8-10, then your Thac0 just drops to much behind the fighters, your skills are maxed out at 95%, and the spellcasters start to become so powerful that you can only stand in thier shadow. Still with a high DEX using two weapon fighting, you'll have fun at the lower levels.