Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Goobles 02-21-08, 12:24 PM	Hi I'm new to the game, and I'm in dire need of advice. Currently I run a 15th level Sorcerer. His info is as follows : Human Sorcerer, 15th level STR 8 DEX 13 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 9 CHA 20 Skills: 18 Bluff 18 Concentration 18 Knowledge Arcana 18 Spellcraft Feats: Spell Focus: Evocation Greater Spell Focus: Evocation Spell Penetration Greater Spell Penetration Improved Toughness Improved Counterspell (room) I was thinking about taking up Dodge and Spring Attack in place of Counterspell and my open Feat slot, so I could use Greater Dimensional Door, cast a spell, pop back out (if that's allowed) My spells are as follows: 0-level Detect Magic Caltrops Mage Hand Identify Mending Sonic Snap Message Prestidigitation Read Magic 1st level Mage Armor Grease True Strike Familiar Basket Mage Hand, Greater 2nd level Knock Mirror Image Combust Electric Loop Entice Gift 3rd level Fireball Sound Lance Dispell Magic Spell Vulnerability 4th level Ice Storm Know Vulnerabilities Defenestrating Sphere Wing Bind 5th level Teleport Firebrand Dimension Door, Greater Mass Fly 6th level Control Water Oitiluke's Freezing Sphere Desintegrate 7th level Power Word Blind Prismatic Spray I have a Weasel Familiar Posessions include: Circlet of Cha + 6 Amulet of Natural Armor +1 Gloves of Dex +2 Ring of Protection +2 Cloak of Resist +2 ANYTHING anyone could advise would be greatly appreciated, whether it be skills, feats, equipment I should buy... anything! Thanks!
narack 02-21-08, 12:40 PM	Since you decided to focus on evocation get more evocation spell. 1st: Magic Missile 2nd: Scorching Ray 3rd: Lightning Bolt 5th: Wall of Force 6th: Chain Lightning I don't know what Improved Toughness gives but Toughness is a useless feat Improved counter spell is pretty much useless if you have a specification because you need expend a spell of the same school and specification you take nearly only 1 school. You better get Metamagic feat, Maximise Spell or Empower Spell
toucanbuzz 02-21-08, 12:55 PM	First the advice. For players new to the game, you REALLY should start at 1st level and learn the game from the bottom up. Starting the game at 15th level is akin to skipping all the practice and regular season football games and telling a guy to quarterback the playoffs with no idea of the plays. But, if you are insistent on proceeding, good luck. Here's what won't work: Dodge and Spring Attack. These feats are generally for those who will be engaging in hand to hand combat and don't want to get hit, plus you need Mobility to get Spring Attack. These are all feats wasted on a caster. Improved Toughness. Must have Toughness to even qualify for this, and it minimally benefits you. Improved Counterspell. Only useful if you face casters and save your action in the hope that you either have the appropriate spell or can dispel it. Either way, an extremely restricted ability, but as a sorceror, it's not a total waste as you, unlike wizards, can cast the same spell again and again if needed. Again, highly recommend learning the game from level 1. When you do it that way, you'll understand the game a whole lot better.
Shaggy_Shaggs 02-21-08, 01:25 PM	Get Limited Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/limitedWish.htm) as soon as possible. Multi-purpose spells are hugely important for a class with limited spell selection like a sorcerer. Sure, the XP hit sucks, but if you get killed for not having the right spell on hand, you've effectively lost all your XP or enough to drop you a level, depending on whether they retrieve and resurrect your carcass. Pay special attention to the line "Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower, provided the spell is not of a school prohibited to you." in the spell description. This can make you a powerful emergency medic in a desperate situation. Why, you might ask? Well, there's this crappy NPC class in the DMG, called the Adept (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/adept.htm). Its highest spell level is 5th, and among the spells that are 5th-level spells for Adepts is the very potent Heal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/heal.htm). The blaster dropping a handful of XP to switch modes to healer could very well turn a nasty fight around. ;)
Goobles 02-21-08, 01:31 PM	The people I play with recommended that as well. I started at level 12 rather, and they're allowing me some time to mold my character to something I'm comfortable with. I haven't been able to find a D&D game other than this one, really, and I'd like to stick with it. AFAIK, Improved Toughness only requires a CON of 12 to get it.
Goobles 02-21-08, 01:36 PM	Also, a couple of the players have this website/computer program that you plug in base stats + a couple of other things and it compiles your character for you. If anyone has any idea what they might be talking about, please provide input.
LinusMundane 02-21-08, 02:28 PM	as silly as I think this is... Improved Toughness Complete Warrior Pre-req: Base Fort save +2 Result:Gain +1 hp per HD. So you gain one bonus HP per level, I cant believe Toughness is not a prereq.
Zombie_Babies 02-21-08, 02:33 PM	as silly as I think this is... Improved Toughness Complete Warrior Pre-req: Base Fort save +2 Result:Gain +1 hp per HD. So you gain one bonus HP per level, I cant believe Toughness is not a prereq. We houseruled that in for our group. It is incredibly stupid. Improved Toughness somehow found a way to make Toughness even more useless. Who'd of though that was possible?
LSMFT 02-21-08, 02:50 PM	I would add Energy Substitution (CArc). It is nice if you are faced with an opponent who is resistant to one of your preferred spells. Since you are so invested in evocations, I might look at Energy Gestalt (CMag). And, you don’t have much Metamagic. There is an alternate class feature in PHBII and a feat (Rapid Metamagic, CMag) either of which will get rid of the increased casting time for metamagic, enter Quicken Spell. With your emphasis on evocations, maybe even Metamagic School Focus. A true “blaster” might look at something like Sudden Empower or Sudden Maximized for a once-per-day cannon. Improved Counterspell. Only useful if you face casters and save your action in the hope that you either have the appropriate spell or can dispel it.Right, dump this feat. Why ready an action to how to counterspell, when you could ready an action to hit him with a half-dozen magic missles or three scorching rays and hurt the hell out of your oponent while forcing him to make a wicked high Concentration check to get the spell off?
Corey_Austin 02-21-08, 02:53 PM	Replace the counterspell feat with a reserve feat (from complete mage) of some variety.
Krusk 02-21-08, 10:26 PM	Have you considered prestige classing at all? Any prestige class that gains full spellcasting progression is strictly more powerful -and thus more useful to the group- than a level of sorcerer. I really enjoy the feat energy substitution as well.
Lincoln Hills 02-22-08, 04:37 PM	I disagree with Krusk. Not that a prestige class can't amplify your power - it can - but I feel that if this is your first character, you're better off sticking with straight Sorceror. It's simpler. Not necessarily more powerful, but simpler. As has been said, you're already starting with a disadvantage by being shoved into a high-level campaign: no need to start adding new classes to complicate things further. But I do agree with him about Energy Substitution. Such a spell may take longer for you to cast, but no "evoker" should feel totally comfortable without at least one E-Sub. (What kind of E-Sub? Any but fire: many of your evoker spells already use fire, and it's pretty common for monsters and spellcasters to have resistance to it.)
LSMFT 02-22-08, 05:19 PM	With his spells, I'd say Energy Sub (acid). I see fire, cold, and electricity all there. He also has some sonic and Disintigrate, but I'd add at least one force-spell to my list.
pigknight 02-22-08, 05:54 PM	He should get phantasmal killer and magic missle. They both always hurt, and PK can also insta-kill.
LordTarmos 02-22-08, 07:49 PM	Hi I'm new to the game, and I'm in dire need of advice. Currently I run a 15th level Sorcerer. His info is as follows : Human Sorcerer, 15th level STR 8 DEX 13 CON 12 INT 14 WIS 9 CHA 20 Skills: 18 Bluff 18 Concentration 18 Knowledge Arcana 18 Spellcraft Feats: Spell Focus: Evocation Greater Spell Focus: Evocation Spell Penetration Greater Spell Penetration Improved Toughness Improved Counterspell (room) I was thinking about taking up Dodge and Spring Attack in place of Counterspell and my open Feat slot, so I could use Greater Dimensional Door, cast a spell, pop back out (if that's allowed) My spells are as follows: 0-level Detect Magic Caltrops Mage Hand Identify Mending Sonic Snap Message Prestidigitation Read Magic 1st level Mage Armor Grease True Strike Familiar Basket Mage Hand, Greater 2nd level Knock Mirror Image Combust Electric Loop Entice Gift 3rd level Fireball Sound Lance Dispell Magic Spell Vulnerability 4th level Ice Storm Know Vulnerabilities Defenestrating Sphere Wing Bind 5th level Teleport Firebrand Dimension Door, Greater Mass Fly 6th level Control Water Oitiluke's Freezing Sphere Desintegrate 7th level Power Word Blind Prismatic Spray I have a Weasel Familiar Posessions include: Circlet of Cha + 6 Amulet of Natural Armor +1 Gloves of Dex +2 Ring of Protection +2 Cloak of Resist +2 ANYTHING anyone could advise would be greatly appreciated, whether it be skills, feats, equipment I should buy... anything! Thanks! First off he needs to be a metamagic specialist and get rid of the weasel second you have built up your spell penetration so assay resistance would not be a bad spell choice. (will give you even better chance against BBEG). Get a few No save spells Ray of stupidity, Ray of enfeeble, Touch of Idiocy) To weaken the melee or limit the spellcasters of the other group for your group. Get rid of improved toughness and take maximize or split ray( get some ray spells) I prefer split ray double effectivness with only 2 slot increase. then take residual metamagic feat Pick up at least one save or die spell. If you take energy substitution make sure you follow it up with energy admixture. Oh and for those creatures immune to magic and no matter what type spell you use you canot hurt them at least one orb spell(sonic or force)( not th most damage but great backup) when you just need damage done.
LordTarmos 02-22-08, 07:52 PM	He should get phantasmal killer and magic missle. They both always hurt, and PK can also insta-kill. stay away from magic missile they do terrible damage at this level (orb of force all the way)touch attacks are easy.
The_Shaman 02-22-08, 08:24 PM	Not really - BAB 7 and poor dexterity means you can still often miss when shooting in melee. Magic missile isn't very good at first, but at higher levels is a reliable way to get some insta-damage. Empowered, it gives orb of force a run for its money without too much trouble - and even empowered is one level lower. BTW, if you're a blaster, empower - and ideally rapid metamagic - is almost a must. Even the penetration spells aren't that important imo. Anyway, I'd swap GSF evocation for something else. With improved counterspell I'd be tempted to go Archmage and get mastery of counterspelling to really start shutting down enemy mages, and stay for a few more abilities such as mastery of shaping (for your blasts, dispels, etc) spell power, etc.
pigknight 02-23-08, 12:05 AM	So who agrees that he should get phantasmal killer?
LSMFT 02-23-08, 12:35 PM	Phantasmal Killer is not really save-or-die. It is save-or-save again. Then maybe die if you fail both. (I want more from my 4th-level spells than 3d6 damage.) With both Fort and Will save options for my targets, it is going to be a spell I’d consider for only a few opponents. Not that it can’t be very valuable in the right situation, but I try to have my sorcerers work for every situation. Magic Missile v. Orb of Force: MM is a lower level, so it is easier to add metamagic to and bump it up to where it is effective, if not great. But, it is subject to SR. Orb of Force is not. This character seems to have done a lot to take care of his SR worries. Assay Spell Resistance: I wouldn’t take this when I’ve so many feats devoted to beating SR. I take this maybe instead of those feats. I mean, if I’ve a +10 from this spell, do I really need the feats? What I do when I’m worried about SR is take Arcane Mastery. Taking 10 on these checks, especially if I’ve bumped up my caster-level with a PrC or item, and like 90% of my SR worries are done.
Drackthor 02-23-08, 05:44 PM	I'd suggest Warmage from CArc. It's like Sorcerer but without the hassle of having to think about what spells you ought to be casting. You are a cannon in a funny hat. Period.
Krusk 02-23-08, 06:25 PM	I'd suggest Warmage from CArc. It's like Sorcerer but without the hassle of having to think about what spells you ought to be casting. You are a cannon in a funny hat. Period. Warmage is more of an archer in all honestly than it is a caster. All it can do is a wide variety of direct damage spells, usually to one person. A sorcerer can actually get spells that are effective, or useful. If you switch to warmage, make sure you have someone who can handle the arcane caster role, because you wont be able to.
Drackthor 02-23-08, 11:13 PM	Warmage is more of an archer in all honestly than it is a caster. All it can do is a wide variety of direct damage spells, usually to one person. A sorcerer can actually get spells that are effective, or useful. If you switch to warmage, make sure you have someone who can handle the arcane caster role, because you wont be able to. I know. Isn't it fantastic? "Drack, teleport us!" "Nope." "Scry?" "Nuh uh." "Kill that bugbear?" *FWOOSH*
Totentanz 02-23-08, 11:27 PM	Guys, look at the OP's feat choices, it sounds like he is playing with Core and the SpC. At least do him a favor and actually list where your advice is coming from...jeez. Phantasmal Killer isn't worth the investment for a level 15 character. The saves of everything you will fight are too high. Plenty of Save or Die's (SoD's) exist that are far better. Limited Wish might be worth the investment. Assuming you are allowed to change any of this. I'd drop GSF (Greater Spell Focus), and GSP (Greater Spell Penetration). The former isn't worth it period, and the latter isn't worth it unless you are encounter lots of high SR (Spell Resistance) enemies. Replace them with metamagic feats like Empower and Maximize. We can help more if you tell us a: what books are allowed b: what your party composition is and c: what you want the character to do. Never, EVER play a Warmage if you want a caster. Drack's post is precisely why NOT to play a Warmage. Anybody can contribute Hit Point damage; you want to bring something special to the table. A Warmage is appropriate only when you want to play an archer with a twist. Finally, if you play in a group that focuses a lot on building powerful characters, or if the idea appeals to you, head to the Character Optimization Boards. Wait until after you are familiar with the Core Rules though. Ignore all the flame directed towards it or me after this post; it's just information; it can't hurt you.
NordicBirch 02-24-08, 05:03 AM	Aren't you lacking a skill? Sorcerer 2sp + human 1sp + int 2sp=5sp/lvl means five skills maxed or maybe add two at 9sp both? If you have access, runestaffs from Magic Item Compendium http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ps/20070216a might be nice as you're kind of limited in what you can do with your spells at the moment. Maybe get alter self for mobility and protection. Shadow conjuration line of spells would be great too. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowConjuration.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shadowConjurationGreater.htm Check out the basic guides on the CO boards as well. Lots of good analysis on spells. http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-239207 http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-765195
YamiShinobi 02-25-08, 01:07 AM	as silly as I think this is... Improved Toughness Complete Warrior Pre-req: Base Fort save +2 Result:Gain +1 hp per HD. So you gain one bonus HP per level, I cant believe Toughness is not a prereq. also in monster manual
Krusk 02-25-08, 08:43 AM	Toughness is not a prereq for improved toughness because toughness is an awful feat, and improved toughness is only slightly better. They want there to be some chance someone will take it.
Bergtann 02-25-08, 08:54 AM	I recommend a Bloodline Feat (Dragon Compendium, gives one more spell known at each spell level), one level of Sand Shaper (Sandstorm, gives a metric crapton of good spells known), and Mage of the Arcane Order for the rest. You can substitute Fiend-Blooded (Heroes of Horror) for the last one, it is a bit simpler. Also, drop the Familiar. Metamagic specialist, Spell Shield (Dungeonscape) or Divine Companion (Complete Champion).
Goobles 02-27-08, 05:13 PM	The GM of my campaign is pretty open minded. We are limited to the base races and classes from PHBI, but are allowed prestige classes. I only own 3 books atm, MM1, PHB1, DMG1. I have Complete Arcane and Complete Mage on order, and I'm looking to acquire a few others. Thanks for your opinions folks, I didn't know about a lot of this stuff.