Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kragar's Shadow 02-07-06, 03:46 PM	Hello all, I'm not a new player by any means, but in an upcoming campaign I'm going to be running my first fighter. Please, no comments on my choice of character class. I've played enough rogues and wizards that I want to try front-lining for once. My stats are Str 15 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 12 Cha 11 I went with Intelligence over Constitution for character reasons, for Combat Expertise, and for the Able Learner Feat. If I'm going to play a fighter I want to be somewhat useful outside of combat, even if it's aiding other people's skill checks. With all these skill points I'm putting some into Hide, Move Silently, and Balance. Too many times have I seen the clanky fighter messing things up. This also puts me in light armour (Chain Shirt) for better mobility and less ACP. This I'm sticking with for a few levels at least. Feat-wise I have Able Learner, Dodge and Combat Expertise. I'll probably take Power Attack at level 2 so that I have most of the feat chains started. After that, I'm not sure but I'm leaning towards Whirlwind for level 6. What I'm looking for is opinions on my weapon selection, specifically light flail and buckler, or heavy flail. I want the flail for it's versatility but I'm not sure if I should trade one point of AC (17 down to 16) for the bigger damage when my HP is only 11. Yes, I could always use Combat Expertise to negate the loss of the buckler and still come out better for damage potential. Any opinions or other options I've missed? Thanks
Rhomphaia 02-07-06, 04:53 PM	If you like the flail, go with the heavy flail for two handed damage, then choose Power Attack instead of Dodge at first level. You may also wish to forgo Combat Expertise until level 2 and get Weapon Focus to help offset the penalties from Power Attack. When you sacrifice base attack for damage, you get a 2:1 return on the damage when wielding a weapon in two hands. For example, for every point of base attack you throw into Power Attack, you deal an additional two points of damage. Unless you plan on getting Mobility, I would steer clear of Dodge. Focus instead on feats like Cleave, Weapon Focus and other things that increase hitting chance and damage. Other than just some nitpicks like that, it looks good. From what I can tell, you have a good concept going here. I do have one bit of advice though. As a fighter, you have a strength other fighting classes do not have. Versatility. Do not pigeonhole yourself into a melee fighter. You have plenty of feats to start doing mounted combat and/or ranged combat and be GOOD (not just competent) at both. Focus on your main combat form (melee from the sound of it) until around level 10-12, then start diversifying your repitiore of feats until you got a nice selection of mounted and ranged combat feats (2-3 for each is good).
Trarth 02-07-06, 04:59 PM	I agree, except for I would have put myself in medium armor
Kragar's Shadow 02-07-06, 06:21 PM	I took Dodge instead of Power Attack because I want to end up with Whirlwind Attack if I can. I wanted a level or two of hitting before I start trading BAB for damage. Power Attack will likely be my second level feat. Basically I'm hoping that I can have a good compromise on AC and still hit and do damage. Heavy Flail AC 16 (+4 for chain shirt, +2 dex) plus Dodge and Combat Expertise Attack +4 Damage d10+3 Ligh flail and buckler AC 17 (+4 for chain shirt, +1 for buckler, +2 dex) plus Dodge and Combat Expertise Attack +3 Damage d8+2 As for versatility, I was hoping to do that with tripping and disarming, hence the flail. Currently my party has a ranger, bard, and warlock. So I can afford to be a secondary archer at best with my shortbow. Mounted combat may be less useful in this campaign. I take this from the DM not allowing PrCs like the Wild Plains Outrider on the grounds that they won't fit much in the terrain.
kraegor 02-07-06, 07:28 PM	Well here are some tips: There is a "alternate" fighter in the Unearthed Arcana where you can sacrifice your first level feat as a fighter to instead gain 4 skillpoints a level + int bonus insstead of just 2. That means you can get 40 more skill points by the tiem you are 20, not bad for 1 feat. Also, get some mithril chainmail or something, counts as light armor while giving you good medium armor stats. If you want to be more versatile, get exotic weapon prof: bastard sword, so you can use it in 1 hand or 2, and use a shield or use it 2handed. when you get level 6 or so, you can take 1 level in exotic weapon master prc and gain the feat uncanny strike which gives you x2 to your strength while using it 2 handed (isntead of 1.5). That is the best since using it 2handed now only gives ua 4 damage bonus (with 16 str) but by 4th level you will be up to +6 str damage, plus +2 from weapon specialization if you are a fighter. So at level 6 you basically can be doing +10 hit, 1d10+8 damage, while doubling powerattack if you take it from your to hit. You can do pretty good damage.
Nom 02-07-06, 10:34 PM	Feat-wise I have Able Learner, Dodge and Combat Expertise. I'll probably take Power Attack at level 2 so that I have most of the feat chains started. After that, I'm not sure but I'm leaning towards Whirlwind for level 6.I'd recommend not spreading your feats too thin. A little of everything is rarely as effective as really good at something. Yes, I could always use Combat Expertise to negate the loss of the buckler and still come out better for damage potential.Sounds like a good answer to me. Unfortunately, D&D shields are mainly useful when enchanted. If you're going to wield a shield it may as well be a heavy shield. A buckler and 1-h weapon doesn't really gain you much.
j_gunder 02-08-06, 02:41 AM	Definitely the heavy flail, especially if you intend on doing a lot of tripping and disarming. You will need the +4 for a two-handed weapon to resist being tripped/disarmed yourself...and as you said, combat expertise offsets the lack of a shield. It also essentially doubles the effectiveness of power attack...making the most out of the feats you have chosen. I don't see any problems with your feats, especially if you plan on going straight fighter. In the end, I would rather have improved sunder/trip/disarm than weapon focus/specialization...weapon specialization means you will end up using one weapon forever (boring), whereas if you spread out your feats like you are you will always have many options. I also agree that you should look into mounted combat...one of the strengths of a fighter at high level (and there aren't that many, so take what you can) is that they can fight equally well in virtually any situation, whereas a ranger with the archery chain forfeits (some) melee effectiveness and a paladin with the mounted combat chain forfeits loses effectiveness without his mount. Fighters are versatile...you're right-on. One thing--get more CON ASAP, however you can...if you plan on tanking, you're going to need more hit points and a better fort save to resist energy drain/poison nastiness.
Kragar's Shadow 02-08-06, 09:31 AM	Nom, the reason I'm taking Dodge, Combat Expertise, and likely Power Attack is that because I've never played a Fighter I don't know what would be most effective. Let alone what would be most effective in this DM's game. I figure with that basis I can build to almost anywhere. I makes more sense to me to take these feats now than to build up to level 10 or so with one chain and then complain because Dodge is a useless feat at level 12. At some point I may take EWP with the bastard sword or something and go back to the buckler. The option of two-handed and one-handed in one weapon would be nice. But for now I think I'll stick with the heavy flail. Thanks all for your advice. Much appreciated.
deusxmachina 02-13-06, 02:38 AM	I understand the want for Move Silently and Hide, but I think putting more than a couple ranks in Balance might be a waste. Also consider Jump and Climb if you stay with light armor. Jump may not come in that handy without certain other things adding to it, such as more speed (every 10' move above 30' adds +4 or whatever) or a Goliath race that can do standing long jumps. Climb can come in pretty handy particularly if no one else in the party is good at it. Your CON is a little low, but that can be helped if you go with a reach weapon. It'd be two-handed for the big damage, and it'd have reach so you have a good threat range and can avoid some close-up attacks. Spiked Chain works great here, of course. Especially if you're going for Whirlwind, you'll want the big reach. Personal opinion, but I think other feats are better than Cleave, or at least more interesting. If you're going the intelligence/low-AC/2-handed route, gotta go with Karmic Strike. Some guy hits you, you get to hit him back. Works great with 2-handed damage and Power Attack. Some mediocre melee guy hits you for 10 points, you hit him back for free for 20 points. They'll be scared to hit you because they know you will pop them back. This is where a little more CON is nice. My spiked-chain fighter I tried going for Sidestep, but you need Tumble, and cross-classing the skill takes a lot of points and a lot of levels if you don't take a level of Swashbuckler or something. So, the guy can't do the Sidestep/Karmic Strike combo, but Karmic Strike alone is still fun. It's like a cooler form of Cleave, in a way. I was trying to make a mobile fighter that was still more fighter than mobile, but without Tumble (and also no Sidestep) it didn't quite work as planned, but pretty close. He can also Climb and Swim better than just about anyone else because those are strength-based skills and he's in light armor. I wouldn't bother with anything more than a chain shirt unless you're going with heavy armor. For a couple other ideas, since my fighter wasn't quite as mobile as I wanted without taking Dervish or something, which was too mobile, my character in a different campaign is a Goliath monk. No fancy spiked chain and his AC is horrible, but he's like a big monkey. He hits hard, grapples great, can climb better than anyone, and around 5th level is able to do a standing long jump of 20' without even rolling the dice. I thought the jumping would just be cool, but it's actually come in handy when the other guys with low strength or in medium or heavy armor aren't nearly as mobile. Even medium armor puts a big hurt on mobility skills. Another thing to consider is if you plan on being Enlarged a lot. Plan ahead on this. Disarming works well with certain weapons and a good BAB, but you really need to be a larger size (Enlarged, Goliath, Half-Giant, etc) for tripping since tripping is strength + size (+ Improved Trip) and that's it. Tripping may not be worth it otherwise -- don't be fancy, just whack the guy. Enlarged is still great for more damage and more reach, though. I mention being Enlarged since you then lose a point of DEX when bigger, so Combat Reflexes may not be worth it. But Enlarged with Whirlwind and a reach weapon will make up for that when you get to whack everyone in a 20' radius anyway. If you want a truly in-your-face kind of fighter, go the charging/leaping route of feats. Might be fun... move silently, sneak up on someone, and then leap attack them and dice them up in one or two rounds. That might work with what you have in mind. Just trying to give you some ideas. Try to plan ahead exactly what you are trying to do with the character. If you plan on doing something but a certain feat requires a prerequisite that you don't have, it's better to figure that stuff out now. Mounted combat can be fun, but it's next to useless if you can't bring a warhorse to most places. And archery... that's for dainty characters who are afraid to get their hands dirty. ;)
DeadKeepWalking 02-13-06, 10:47 AM	If your DM lets you use the Feats book, there are 3 fighter feats that when all three are taken (no prerequistes) will give you a +6 AC and reduce your Armor Check by 6 for a specific type of armor (light, medium, or heavy). 1st feat is +1, second stacks for total +3, and third stacks for total +6 AC. That would be a good way to offset low AC.