Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Graiskye 05-08-05, 03:16 AM	Okay I havent created a magic using character in a looong time, too long. I just have a couple a questions Im having no luck getting answers too. How or where (in PHB) do I find info relating to spell saves? How many spells for a first lev. wiz, +4 int mod. How many spells a day for first lev wiz. Love the list function! Ive found the table relating the spells per day for 1st lev is 3/1, you only get one first lev. spell a day?? Really appreciate it if someone can advise me on the points above, I realize they are probably old hat to many, so share the wealth. Its just things can sometimes get much clearer when someone else gives thier perspective. Also love to hear any tips anybody might have in regards to helping a young mage survive those precarious first years!!! Thanks a lot Graiskye
Ut-Napishtim 05-08-05, 03:36 AM	Most of that is in the section on the Wizard class in the PHB, pp. 56 has the save DC's (10 + spell level + intelligence mod,) pp. 57 has the number of first-level spells they start with in their spellbook (3 + intelligence mod,) the spells per day is right (3/1,) but with your high intelligence you should get bonus spells on levels you can cast see pp. 8, higher level bonus spells/day are gained when you can actually cast spells of that level. Getting more spells/day can be done many ways, the first and most common is specialization where the Wizard get's 1 more spell/day from their specialized school, for giving up the ability to cast any spells at all from two forbidden schools (selected by the player.) Even better are the Domain Wizards in Unearthed Arcana (pp. 57) who don't have to give up any schools, but their bonus spell is already chosen for them by each level each day based on their domain. Lastly there's the Precocious Apprentice feat on pp. 181 of Complete Arcane that gives you a bonus 2nd-level spell slot you can even use at 1st level with a DC 8 caster level check (so 7 or higher on a d20 at 1st level.) Taking all these would make your spells/day 4/3/1 at first level. :ayyyy!:
Worguron 05-08-05, 04:33 AM	One thing you may want to think about being a level 1 caster. At level 1, Sleep is GOD! If your DM is making you fight something with more than 4 HD at level 1 something is wrong.
TheScalesOfFate 05-08-05, 05:00 AM	Another remarkably fabulous new option is from Races of the Wild: Play an Elf, and take the level one Elven Wizard substitution level. By 'giving up' the ability to specialize, the Generalist Wizardry gives the Elven Wizard an extra bonus spell per day, a bonus 1st level spell known at 1st level, and three new spells per level instead of two. Unlike Specialist Wizards, these spells may be of any school. It's quite a bit cheesy/broken, but hey, it's there, and I (being a lover of elven mages) will certainly be making use of it. XD
Ut-Napishtim 05-08-05, 05:14 AM	Personally I'm more of a Color Spray fan myself. A 15 ft. cone that will help your fellow party members easily dispatch up to seven creatures of up to 5 HD by stunning, blinding, and knocking them unconscious. Very nice. Of course Shield and Mage Armor are pretty much universal, Identify is kind of required, and there are still a lot of good ones. If you go with Precocious Apprentice I'd reccomend taking Scorching Ray. That one-shot 4d6 to clean up foes not dropped by the Color Spray should make you very popular with the party. :smirk:
Planar Wanderer 05-08-05, 05:15 AM	Ah yes wizards masters of the arcane and my personal favourite class, mind you I've only actually played NWN and am currently working on a campaign world for my first actual PnP 3.5 game so take this for what its worth, but as I see it, Stay out of melee, remember at first level you are about as tough as a commoner as far as blades go , get a crossbow or other ranged weapon you are proficent with (even if your dex is appalling it beats getting into melee or just standing there if you run out of spells) be careful with your spells but don't wait so long to use them that you get TPK'd. Magic missile is always useful even at later levels its a force effect, useful for incorporeal creatures and stuff like shades and ghosts. don't forget your cantrips those can be useful, beware of ray spells at low levels, although things won't have a great touch AC at that level your attack bonus is pretty dire as well so don't let everything come down to the results of a ray spell. Put most of you're treasure into scrolls, some of them you won't know so you can keep those to scribe into your spellbook those you do know make handy backups for when you run out of spells. Basically just remember you are the adventurer equivalent of the kid who gets beaten up and his lunch money taken by the bullies each day until he goes completely psycho at someone.
Ut-Napishtim 05-08-05, 07:07 AM	Yeah Planar Wanderer made some great points. If you haven't distributed your attributes yet I'd reccomend putting your second-best on Dexterity. As Planar Wanderer pointed out it's good to have a backup ranged attack, and Dex helps with that and your AC as well. Not to mention all the ranged touch spells you'll need it on. A light crossbow is a nice investment, and you might consider Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot since you'll need those for casting into melee as well. Another thing I remembered is that you generally want an area for low HD multiple combatants (like the Color Spray) as well as a good single-target spell for big HD opponents the whole party is supposed to team up on. On single-target spell that can be invaluable at the lower levels against such foes is Ray of Enfeeblement. Drop those monsters' Strength if you hit with no saving throw so it doesn't fight as well against your melee guys, hit that six on the d6 and they'll cheer.
VirgilCaine 05-08-05, 07:40 AM	Mage Armor, Color Spray, Ray of Enfeeblement, Unseen Servant, Mount (Horses are godawful expensive), Obscuring Mist, and Spider Climb is a good selection of spells. Ask your DM if you can go in the hole for XP, so you can use your starting gold to pay for scrolls you scribed yourself, so you can memorize combat spells and still have Mount, Unseen Servant, Obsuring Mist, and Spider Climb available.
Ut-Napishtim 05-08-05, 11:35 AM	Another thing to think about is Race. Humans are nice for the bonus feat and extra skill points, A Gray Elf (MM pp. 104) will give you a +2 Intelligence and a +2 Dexterity plus proficiency with the Longsword in case you don't like the idea of being stuck with a staff in close-combat, finally a Gnome will give you a +2 Constitution if you want a hardier Wizard plus a size bonus to your AC and +1 to the save DC of your Illusion spells (Color Spray is an Illusion.) Any of the three would be an awesome choice for a starting Wizard IMHO. :cool:
Graiskye 05-08-05, 04:09 PM	Thanks to all of you folks, I listed this question on three different boards that I currentley have games going at(PBP), tons of views, no answers!!! I thought they were relatively simple questions??? So thanks for taking the time to help someone out, Much appreciated. Graiskye
Graiskye 05-08-05, 04:28 PM	Hadnt read the posts, I was exited just to get answers!! This is great stuff, I would have never known about the stuff in the arcane, or the 'grey elf', race!!! This is what I was after some insight into the wizards ways! Last time I played 2ed was the 'new' thing. Been a while, lots to learn. I jumped into 3 or 4 games online so Ive been reviewing TONS...great fun though. Really missed playing AD&D, just wish I could find a group close to home(Canada, B.C.). Online play is fun, but!! Have not tried the irc format yet? I could see that being somewhat better, but prone to problems?? Thanks again Grai.
Graiskye 05-08-05, 05:03 PM	Now things are getting interesting. If I was to take the Gray Elf, do you still take the -2 hit to con.??? Also what is TPK. Lastly anyone know where to find reference to High Elf? Tried PHB,and the MM, havent tried the DMG yet? Sometimes I miss things that are right there. I hate that!! Back to Work Grai.
TinManFan 05-08-05, 05:06 PM	Ok, No one gonna like this but I'll throw it out there. 1st off, make sure you have 0 lvl spells listed. Yer runnin around with 3 maybe 4 spells, so make sure you can still contribute. (Heck, last night my Ray of Frost dropped a full HP goblin! Got a critical hit on a ray and they double dmg for some ungodly, yet advantageous reason). 2nd. Admit that you suck at melee and take Point Blank Shot. 1st off, it's fun to shoot things after throwing up Mage Armor and Shield. 2nd off, they work for Ray Spells and those are your friends. 3rd, you can make fun of the melee jocks who whip out a bow and don't hit as effectively as the robed guy with the bad BAB progression. 3rd. SCROLLS! Use the blasted things and make them. 1st lvl spell, 1st lvl caster = 38 GP and 3 xp to pump out. Go out, kill an alley cat, and use that experience to make some Mage Armor Scrolls. Also handy for people in your party with Use Magic Device. (Just kidding about the cat, I know XP don't work that way. But if you find a fiendish cat, that's like 100 xp right there!) 4th. Make a personality that people will like. No one wants to save the party wiz if he's annoying. Make a friendly, down to earth guy who helps people out and they'll help more often than not.
TheDarknessWithin 05-08-05, 05:15 PM	Yeah you still have to take the hit to Con. And the high elf is just the regular old elf from the PHB
Ut-Napishtim 05-09-05, 01:31 AM	Gray Elf has -2 Str, -2 Con, +2 Dex, +2 Int, they're in the MM. The High Elf is the standard Elf in the PHB, all the Elf variants can be found under the Elf entry in the MM. TPK is Total Party Kill, when the DM kills off the entire party with an encounter. Most try to avoid it. :ayyyy!:
Flushmaster 05-09-05, 02:00 AM	All the basics have been covered, but since I pretty much exclusively play spellcasters and wizards are my favorite, I'll reiterate the things that I always do. Maybe it will make them seem more important (I think they are, at least). 1: Spells are your primary class feature, so use them wisely. You don't have many per day at first level so use them wisely, but remember that you need to cast them at some point or there's no reason being a wizard (a rogue or bard can stand in the back and fire a crossbow and do other things too). Just use them wisely. Magic missile is a near universal favorite, and it's one of your best damage dealling spells at low levels (it's a force effect and doesn't miss). If you have access to the Complete Arcane supplementary book (if you don't and lpan to play a lot of arcane casters, you should buy it), pick up at least one lesser orb spell; though they aren't technically a ray (but an orb of a certain energy type) they do function identically to ray spells, and they're the only things that give magic missile competition in the category of first level ranged damage spells (1d8, ranged touch attack, damage increases with higher caster level). Burning hands (or fireball's illigetimate child, as I often call it) is also a useful one, being your only area effect damage spell at first level, but since you're going to be standing in the back it might not be convenient unless your allies all have good reflex saves. 2: For the love of all that is holy (or unholy, if your character is evil), stay out of melee. Wizards suck at melee in general, especially at low levels. Yeah, shocking grasp is a cool spell, but only if you cast invisibility on yourself first and have a good reason why a magic missile or lesser orb of some type can't be used from a safe distance. Get a light crossbow (or a longbow if you're an elf and get the free proficiency) and use it whenever you run out of spells or just want to save your spells. At first level such a weapon will usually do better damage than your ranged attack spells, though they are easier to hit with (magic missile always hits, unless the target is protected by a shield spell or othe force effect and ranged touch attacks [ray spells] ignore armor and natural armor bonuses to AC and don't usually require as high of attack rolls). Point blank sho is an excellent feat to start with since it helps your ranged weapon and with ray spells, as well as being a prerequisite for precise shot which makes it easier to make ranged attacks at targets engaged in melee with your allies (without it you take a -4 to such attacks because you have to be more careful not to accidentally hit your ally). 3: Damage dealing spells aren't the only options you have available. There's a spell for just about every situation. At low levels, sleep and color spray are great for neutralizing large numbers of foes at once. Identify is indispensable once you start encountering magic items in treasures but isn't particularly useful at first (buy a scroll of it and scribe it into your spellbook before you hit third level and you should be alright). Detect magic is probably the single cantrip that you'll use most, even once you get to higher levels; learn it and prepare it at least once each day. Alarmis great; even as a level 1 caster it lasts for two hours; that's your shift on watch at night and you can still sleep to get your eight hours in (it works best if you have the last shift so you don't have to wake anybody after the shift ends, since you're asleep). Over 75% of the first level sorceror/wizard spells available can be quite useful, so take a guess which ones will be most useful for your campaign (or most preferred by your character) and take them. Your party will like you more and more every time you cast a spell and save them the trouble of having to perform a risky, time consuming, or otherwise unpleasant task (or even a spell that simply makes said task easier, safer, faster, etc). 4: Scrolls are worth ten times their weight in platinum, but you can get them for a lot cheaper. When you get back to town after an adventure, buy scrolls of useful spells you don't have and scribe them into your spellbook. Unlike a sorceror, there is no limit on how many spells you can learn. Prepare mostly combat spells, at least at low levels when you have few spells per day, and remember that if you have fifteen minutes of in game time to stop and study your spellbook, you can swap out a prepared spell for a new one as long as it's in that book. And make damn sure that you don't lose that book. 5: Along the lines of the #2 (stay out of melee), the party's tank(s) (fighters, barbarians, paladins, etc) are your friend. Wizards and sorcerors are known to refer to them as meat shields, though some of them take offense to that term so be careful on using it around them (unless you're already friends with them; they might call themselves that to make fun of your physical frailty-just remind them that they'd be doing the same thing already and your magic missiles make their job easier). As such, when you gain a few levels, consider picking up spells that benefit them, like bull's strength (level 2 spell) because it helps them and if your meat shield goes down there probably isn't anything else between you and whatever took him/her out (if they can't last against them then you and your d4 hit dice are screwed). Enlarging the meat shield or reducing the rogue can be useful in certain circumstances as well. Cat's grace might also help them out, but it's usually more useful to either allies who wear little or no armor (rogues, ranges, monks, etc) or yourself (dex boosts your AC). 6: While picking up either shield or mage armor can be useful, don't cast it unless your enemies are packing ranged weapons or you think they're going to be able to get into melee with you. Those AC bonuses are pointless if all their attacks are targeting the meat shield instead of you. I personally prefer to avoid getting attacked in the first place; besides, who would you attack first if you were an orc? The big dude with the sword or the skinny guy hiding in the back? On the other hand, if you have a melee character in your group that wears very light armor or none at all (rogues in leather armor or monks/ninjas) then they can benefit from mage armor's +4 armor bonus and, unlike shield it has a range of touch rather than personal so you can cast it on them (they last longer and that means they are between you and the bad guys longer). 7: Intelligence is your most important ability, and dexterity is number two. Intelligence powers your spellcasting (bonus spells and increased save DCs) and this is the most important thing for a wizard. Dexterity makes you harder to hit and boosts your reflex saves, as well as making you more accurate with ray spells and whatever ranged weapon you have as a backup to them. You're avoid melee like the plague and your gear (scrolls, wands, and a crossbow) doesn't weigh much so strength is your dump stat. Constitution always helps but you should be trying to avoid taking any damage at all; that extra 2 HP from a good constitution means you have 6 HP, which still sucks (but it does help your fort saves, which is always good). Wisdom helps your spot/listen checks so you can notice a threat and take steps to avoid it. Charisma is nice for social situations, but most people expect wizards to be a bit "bookish" from the get go so it doesn't really hurt you much to be a bit low in this ability. Good luck, and remember: a wizard kicks ass as long as nobody can reach him! Stay out of reach, help your allies (so they'll help you), get as many spells as you can, and know how to maximize the effectiveness of them. Edit: Oh yeah, you asked about TPK. TPK means "total party kill" (you all die). This is obviously a thoroughly unpleasant experience and is almost assured if you're the last one standing (unless the others managed to almost kill off the last bad guy. Protect your meat shields! From a safe distance, of course. ;)
Diefreak 05-09-05, 10:17 AM	Ok i'm not that experince my self but i'm a level 7 wizard and i find that you should use your spells oddly enough like have a cleric cast create water and then throw down a ray of frost for some serios damage also what do you like to do like kill or help cuz i always take a school but you don't have to also remeber that as a wizard goes you learn powerfull spells and should be artillery sometimes.also remember your friends should respect and if you need to rest to regian spells then ask and get a familair ( all this is my opinion ) but play as you like and remember this later on your friends will be bagging for your help in some things and eh yea you can get kill in 1 hit so don't get cocky or smart ass and last but not least be creative and use science and logic with your spells like the ray of frost combo/ and scorging ray and magic missle is very usefull and he he if something kills your friends run away even if they not to becouse you can come back some day and stuff well do what you like but my dm is a ***** and makes me think alot. this is my opinion you do what you like..
Merestil Haye 05-09-05, 12:36 PM	things I would do differently, but then we all have different perspectives.(snip) 3: Damage dealing spells aren't the only options you have available. There's a spell for just about every situation. At low levels, sleep and color spray are great for neutralizing large numbers of foes at once. Identify is indispensable once you start encountering magic items in treasures but isn't particularly useful at first (buy a scroll of it and scribe it into your spellbook before you hit third level and you should be alright).I'd rather take Identify in the spellbook at 2nd level, and buy a scroll of something like Magic Missile by 3rd level. The reason? A scroll of Identify costs 125gp minimum. Magic Missile (and virtually all other 1st level spells) cost 25gp.Detect magic is probably the single cantrip that you'll use most, even once you get to higher levels; learn it and prepare it at least once each day.You get all 19 cantrips from the PHB in your starting spellbook, so you should know it anyway. But it is more useful than any other cantrip, I agree.Prepare mostly combat spells, at least at low levels when you have few spells per day, and remember that if you have fifteen minutes of in game time to stop and study your spellbook, you can swap out a prepared spell for a new one as long as it's in that book. And make damn sure that you don't lose that book.Well this is not quite right. If you have prepared a spell for casting, you cannot change the spell until you have cast it, rested for eight hours, and reprepared your spells. However, you have the option of leaving some spell slots blank, and preparing them later.7: Intelligence is your most important ability, and dexterity is number two. Intelligence powers your spellcasting (bonus spells and increased save DCs) and this is the most important thing for a wizard. Dexterity makes you harder to hit and boosts your reflex saves, as well as making you more accurate with ray spells and whatever ranged weapon you have as a backup to them. You're avoid melee like the plague and your gear (scrolls, wands, and a crossbow) doesn't weigh much so strength is your dump stat. Constitution always helps but you should be trying to avoid taking any damage at all; that extra 2 HP from a good constitution means you have 6 HP, which still sucks (but it does help your fort saves, which is always good). Wisdom helps your spot/listen checks so you can notice a threat and take steps to avoid it. Charisma is nice for social situations, but most people expect wizards to be a bit "bookish" from the get go so it doesn't really hurt you much to be a bit low in this ability. Good luck, and remember: a wizard kicks ass as long as nobody can reach him! Stay out of reach, help your allies (so they'll help you), get as many spells as you can, and know how to maximize the effectiveness of them.I value Constitution and Dexterity about equally, because beaing able to cast on the defensive is avery useful skill, and Con is the ability that powers that skill. Just as an aside, if you have Complete Arcane, ask your DM if you can take the Collegiate Wizard feat (it's in a sidebar towards the end of the book). Doubling the spells you get for levelling up can be a godsend, especially if you are operating under a time-pressure constraint in the campaign.
Graiskye 05-09-05, 08:16 PM	To you all, thank you sincerely. Flushmaster, and M.H. thanks for taking SOOO much time to post insightful and obviously well researched posts. I am sure this thread will serve to inform many would be mages, Thanks again, superb job, everybody, Grai :D