First Session! [Archive] - Wizards Community

First Session! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Elrinade
10-07-06, 11:44 AM Following a coup in my brother's gaming group, he has been promoted to DM and will be hosting their next session at our place, and because I'm just sitting around here anyways they're letting me join too! :D Beginning to think I might have bitten off more than I can chew here, though. Turns out we'll be playing an evil campaign :eek: starting at level 9 :mymy: And our characters have to have a level adjustment of at least +4 :confused: Soooo my very first character will effectively be level 13... Also:

Brother: "You have to be a Rogue, because noone else is a Rogue and you'll need Disable Device to get through this"

Me: "Yes, sir" :raincloud:

So much for simplicity, but whatever, I'm still happy to be playing :) . My problem, however, is while I have read his books and understand the game pretty well, I'm not quite sure how to play a Rogue, especially such a high level one. Specifically, can anyone tell me what equipment I should buy with my 5K starting gold? Any other advice would be very very much appreciated as well :D
RevIron
10-07-06, 11:57 AM You'll want a +1 thief weapon (2000gp or so) and Thieves' Tools of at least masterwork quailty (100gp IIRC). A rope of some sort is also useful (I prefer a silk one, but a Rope of Climbing may be an alternative - but will swallow almost all your remaining money), also a good idea to take a light source for the benfit of characters without darkvision. Alternitvely list to the other suggestions.

Level adjustment of +4 means your going to need a race that gets a +4 level penalty to experience - if you haven't already decided then best to discuss the options on this with your brother/DM as they aren't in the PHB and he probably won't want you paging through his monster manual.

Whilst in theory you should have 110k starting gold for 13th level, or 36k for 9th, I'm hoping the 5k you mention is intentional on your brother/DM's part. Also he may well be providing you with equipment if you've got that little money or going for a low magic world.

Whilst I'm here, given what your brother has said - if you haven't already selected feats I'd go with Skill Focus (Disable Device) as one.
Elrinade
10-07-06, 12:49 PM I think I'm going with a +1 rapier, and at least a mwk shortbow, thanks for the rope suggestion, I never would have thought of that :embarrass

We've already decided I'm gonna be a pixie. Invisibility at will for the win :D

Wow, it shoulda been 36K? I think he needs to look at the chart again, he probabbly used the random gold for NPCs chart by accident...

Good idea with the skill focus, I'll use it. Thanks!
RevIron
10-07-06, 01:05 PM The table for PCs is 5-1 in the DMG, for NPCs it's Table 127 - but even so, that has a base of 12K at 9th, 35k at 13th.
Elrinade
10-07-06, 01:13 PM Me: Did you use the NPC starting gold table to give me my gold?
Bro: Yes.
Me: ...But I'm not an NPC...
Bro: ....yeah you are.
Me: ...so I'm a figment of your imagination? :confused:
Bro: Yep! :D

He agreed to up me to 15k, which is good enough I suppose :bored:
HauptSin
10-07-06, 01:19 PM An evil... Pixie? o_O

I'd suggest only going far enough into Rogue to get access to the Assassin class from the DMG. A Pixie Assassin could do some pretty nasty stuff. Study your target while invisible, then Death Attack its ass...
Make sure your Int is nice and high, so you get lots and lots of skill points, then dump them into all of the nice sneaky rogue-ish skills. Make sure to put a good number into stuff like Use Magic Device(for using wands), Move Silently(you're invisible, but they can still hear you coming), Disable Device(for trap removal), Open Lock, Spot/Listen/Search, Balance/Tumble/Jump, and exactly 8 into Hide and 4 into Disguise(to qualify for Assassin ;) )
Telhuine
10-07-06, 05:33 PM So much for simplicity, but whatever, I'm still happy to be playing :) . My problem, however, is while I have read his books and understand the game pretty well, I'm not quite sure how to play a Rogue, especially such a high level one. Specifically, can anyone tell me what equipment I should buy with my 5K starting gold? Any other advice would be very very much appreciated as well :D

Please keep in mind that most of these are items from the inventory of my rogue. Other people will definitely have other ideas of what to bring and I don't give you this list to copy, but rather think about the type of things a rogue might carry.

This guy is a 5th level rogue, 7th level assassin (you might think about some ranks in assassin also since it's an evil campaign and they get disable device as a class skill too), has around 100k gp in wealth, so I've changed some items to fit within your budget I hope.

+1 Rapier (2320 gp)
+1 Studded Leather armor (1175 gp)
Mighty composite shortbow +2, Masterwork (525 gp)
Arrows (20) (10 sp)
Bedroll (1 sp)
Blanket, winter (5 sp)
Crowbar (2 gp)
Grappling Hook, Collapsible (3 gp)
Rope, silk (50 ft.) (10 gp)
Thieves' tools, Masterwork (100 gp) - 2 sets
Magnet, Small (10 gp) (good for picking up small metal items)
Mirror, small steel (10 gp) (good for looking around corners without making yourself known)
Piton (1 sp) - 3 of them (Metal spikes useful for jamming doors or for setting into stone to climb higher)
Hammer (5 sp) (Will need one to set pitons. also good for kneecaps, evil guy :) )
Potion Belt (1 gp)
Pouch, belt (1 gp)
Twine, Roll (1 sp)
Chalk, 1 piece (1 cp) (Good for keep track of where you've been in mazes and such, or for marking trap locations)
Waterskin (full) (1 gp)
Rations, trail (per day) (5 sp) - 5 day's worth

This is a pretty standard kit for rogues I make (except for the magic and masterwork items). All that adds up to around 4300 gp. You might think about buying a couple of potions... healing potions or something useful to your class like invisibility, spider climb, etc.

Wow, just read you'll be a pixie - guess you won't need invisibility potions. I'm not sure what their carrying capacity is, but I hope you can still fly around with all this stuff :P Well, if you have an extra 10,000 gp to play with, you might want a Hewards Handy Haversack, and boots and a cloak of Elvenkind (helps with your move silent and hide checks). A vest of resistance to help you with your saving throws might be useful too.

Just some thoughts. Hope this helped!
Tarvok
10-08-06, 04:25 PM Such a shame you won't be able to play game 1 at level 1. Sounds like you're group is the sort that starts every game at a minimum of level 8. I always hated gaming like that.
Sircav
10-08-06, 08:00 PM Such a shame you won't be able to play game 1 at level 1. Sounds like you're group is the sort that starts every game at a minimum of level 8. I always hated gaming like that.

At the risk of the thread going off topic, I agree. It's much more fun to build the character from level 1 through gaming. I had one game started at 3rd...not to bad, really. and one that started out at 5th, it was difficult to play because you have a "numerically" experienced character but with NO personality built in. It's difficult to play a character like that.
Titan W
10-08-06, 08:20 PM Well for pixie rogue I would definately do something like this (But this is again an opinion like the others)

Rogue 3 Wizard 5 Arcane trixter 1 (Take Arcane Trixter to 10 and finish with rogue straight up). This is a bit complex and I don't know your PRC rules but generally the spellcasting helps at later levels anyway and since you have low damage from weapons due to being so small they will allow you to have reputable damage and it will even scale with level along side sneak attack. Not to mention that Ranged Legerdemain allowing you to DD and open lock at 30 feet is great. As is Improptu Sneak attack (Free SA 1/day is awsome with some of the spells you will get). Downside is that you are about 2 Sneak Attack dice behind and will be a bit behind in your disable device and open lock etc.

As a counter to that you can always take the wizard levels first (Meet Decipher script and Knowledge requirements early and gain knowledge Dungeoneering and put 1/2 ranks into your Hide, Move Silently, and Disable Device. Then you can get the rest back when you go rogue and have an extra 6 skill points per level (This requires a primary atribute of INT BTW) and isn't a big deal. Once you hit trixter you get all rogue skills, but loose 4 of your skill points per level, but gain full spell progression as a wizard (Very nice) however have to buy all your spells now (But you have up to 3rd learned already).

It's a bit complicated but fun in the end as you gain all of the wizard spells and still have the sneak attack and the rogue neccicary skills. (Ability dependency will be INT>DEX>CON>WIS>CHA>STR) and you will want the weapon finesse feat once you can get it.

Equipment gold will probably go about 10k to spells (Wizard is for versatility) and then you have the original 5k to buy things like bracers of natural armor for AC, since you are so small this is good because of the carrying capacity issue, lower weight if most of your stuff goes to the spellbook.

Just an IMO.

Also can create a very interesting back story.
Dragonsblood
10-08-06, 11:10 PM Me: Did you use the NPC starting gold table to give me my gold?
Bro: Yes.
Me: ...But I'm not an NPC...
Bro: ....yeah you are.
Me: ...so I'm a figment of your imagination? :confused:
Bro: Yep! :D

He agreed to up me to 15k, which is good enough I suppose :bored:

Are you always this much of a pushover with him? You're not going to have fun with a DM that railroads you, or if you're not on equal footing with the other players.
Balseraph
10-09-06, 01:11 AM I agree with Dragonsblood in principle.
If you don't want to play a rogue, ask to play something else. I've never found a situation where a party needs a character of a certain class.

We've run games without healers, rogues, front-line fighter-types... my current Eberron game PCs rely on wands and scrolls and potions for healing!

Also, I totally agree that you'd probably have more fun starting at level one in a traditional (i.e. non-evil :P) campaign ;)
allenchan
10-09-06, 02:03 AM There are other ways to gain trapfinding, if thats the main issue. However, there are ways to deal with traps without having a trap finder in the first place. Everything you've told me thus far makes me wary of your brother's ability to DM. However, I still encourage you to try and have fun, just dont blame dnd and write it off completely if things end up sour, it would be a shame.
pukunui
10-09-06, 02:04 AM If anyone in your group has the PHB2, or if you've got the money to burn on it, there's a very useful "quick PC/NPC generation guide" at the back of the book. It has such things as lists of useful equipment for the various classes at each level (1-20). It also gives suggested feat paths and spells, etc etc. There are also example NPCs of all levels in the DMG with lists of equipment and the like -- that would give you an idea of what your PC ought to have.

Also, if your brother's just making you play a rogue to cover the Disable Device aspect of things, you might be able to play a Scout or a Beguiler instead. Both classes have Disable Device as a class skill (although for the Scout, you have to read the official Complete Adventurer errata to know that ...), although neither grants you the Sneak Attack ability. The Scout is like a rogue/ranger and is in the Complete Adventurer and the beguiler is like a rogue/specialist wizard and is in the PHB2.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elrinade 10-07-06, 11:44 AM	Following a coup in my brother's gaming group, he has been promoted to DM and will be hosting their next session at our place, and because I'm just sitting around here anyways they're letting me join too! :D Beginning to think I might have bitten off more than I can chew here, though. Turns out we'll be playing an evil campaign :eek: starting at level 9 :mymy: And our characters have to have a level adjustment of at least +4 :confused: Soooo my very first character will effectively be level 13... Also: Brother: "You have to be a Rogue, because noone else is a Rogue and you'll need Disable Device to get through this" Me: "Yes, sir" :raincloud: So much for simplicity, but whatever, I'm still happy to be playing :) . My problem, however, is while I have read his books and understand the game pretty well, I'm not quite sure how to play a Rogue, especially such a high level one. Specifically, can anyone tell me what equipment I should buy with my 5K starting gold? Any other advice would be very very much appreciated as well :D
RevIron 10-07-06, 11:57 AM	You'll want a +1 thief weapon (2000gp or so) and Thieves' Tools of at least masterwork quailty (100gp IIRC). A rope of some sort is also useful (I prefer a silk one, but a Rope of Climbing may be an alternative - but will swallow almost all your remaining money), also a good idea to take a light source for the benfit of characters without darkvision. Alternitvely list to the other suggestions. Level adjustment of +4 means your going to need a race that gets a +4 level penalty to experience - if you haven't already decided then best to discuss the options on this with your brother/DM as they aren't in the PHB and he probably won't want you paging through his monster manual. Whilst in theory you should have 110k starting gold for 13th level, or 36k for 9th, I'm hoping the 5k you mention is intentional on your brother/DM's part. Also he may well be providing you with equipment if you've got that little money or going for a low magic world. Whilst I'm here, given what your brother has said - if you haven't already selected feats I'd go with Skill Focus (Disable Device) as one.
Elrinade 10-07-06, 12:49 PM	I think I'm going with a +1 rapier, and at least a mwk shortbow, thanks for the rope suggestion, I never would have thought of that :embarrass We've already decided I'm gonna be a pixie. Invisibility at will for the win :D Wow, it shoulda been 36K? I think he needs to look at the chart again, he probabbly used the random gold for NPCs chart by accident... Good idea with the skill focus, I'll use it. Thanks!
RevIron 10-07-06, 01:05 PM	The table for PCs is 5-1 in the DMG, for NPCs it's Table 127 - but even so, that has a base of 12K at 9th, 35k at 13th.
Elrinade 10-07-06, 01:13 PM	Me: Did you use the NPC starting gold table to give me my gold? Bro: Yes. Me: ...But I'm not an NPC... Bro: ....yeah you are. Me: ...so I'm a figment of your imagination? :confused: Bro: Yep! :D He agreed to up me to 15k, which is good enough I suppose :bored:
HauptSin 10-07-06, 01:19 PM	An evil... Pixie? o_O I'd suggest only going far enough into Rogue to get access to the Assassin class from the DMG. A Pixie Assassin could do some pretty nasty stuff. Study your target while invisible, then Death Attack its ass... Make sure your Int is nice and high, so you get lots and lots of skill points, then dump them into all of the nice sneaky rogue-ish skills. Make sure to put a good number into stuff like Use Magic Device(for using wands), Move Silently(you're invisible, but they can still hear you coming), Disable Device(for trap removal), Open Lock, Spot/Listen/Search, Balance/Tumble/Jump, and exactly 8 into Hide and 4 into Disguise(to qualify for Assassin ;) )
Telhuine 10-07-06, 05:33 PM	So much for simplicity, but whatever, I'm still happy to be playing :) . My problem, however, is while I have read his books and understand the game pretty well, I'm not quite sure how to play a Rogue, especially such a high level one. Specifically, can anyone tell me what equipment I should buy with my 5K starting gold? Any other advice would be very very much appreciated as well :D Please keep in mind that most of these are items from the inventory of my rogue. Other people will definitely have other ideas of what to bring and I don't give you this list to copy, but rather think about the type of things a rogue might carry. This guy is a 5th level rogue, 7th level assassin (you might think about some ranks in assassin also since it's an evil campaign and they get disable device as a class skill too), has around 100k gp in wealth, so I've changed some items to fit within your budget I hope. +1 Rapier (2320 gp) +1 Studded Leather armor (1175 gp) Mighty composite shortbow +2, Masterwork (525 gp) Arrows (20) (10 sp) Bedroll (1 sp) Blanket, winter (5 sp) Crowbar (2 gp) Grappling Hook, Collapsible (3 gp) Rope, silk (50 ft.) (10 gp) Thieves' tools, Masterwork (100 gp) - 2 sets Magnet, Small (10 gp) (good for picking up small metal items) Mirror, small steel (10 gp) (good for looking around corners without making yourself known) Piton (1 sp) - 3 of them (Metal spikes useful for jamming doors or for setting into stone to climb higher) Hammer (5 sp) (Will need one to set pitons. also good for kneecaps, evil guy :) ) Potion Belt (1 gp) Pouch, belt (1 gp) Twine, Roll (1 sp) Chalk, 1 piece (1 cp) (Good for keep track of where you've been in mazes and such, or for marking trap locations) Waterskin (full) (1 gp) Rations, trail (per day) (5 sp) - 5 day's worth This is a pretty standard kit for rogues I make (except for the magic and masterwork items). All that adds up to around 4300 gp. You might think about buying a couple of potions... healing potions or something useful to your class like invisibility, spider climb, etc. Wow, just read you'll be a pixie - guess you won't need invisibility potions. I'm not sure what their carrying capacity is, but I hope you can still fly around with all this stuff :P Well, if you have an extra 10,000 gp to play with, you might want a Hewards Handy Haversack, and boots and a cloak of Elvenkind (helps with your move silent and hide checks). A vest of resistance to help you with your saving throws might be useful too. Just some thoughts. Hope this helped!
Tarvok 10-08-06, 04:25 PM	Such a shame you won't be able to play game 1 at level 1. Sounds like you're group is the sort that starts every game at a minimum of level 8. I always hated gaming like that.
Sircav 10-08-06, 08:00 PM	Such a shame you won't be able to play game 1 at level 1. Sounds like you're group is the sort that starts every game at a minimum of level 8. I always hated gaming like that. At the risk of the thread going off topic, I agree. It's much more fun to build the character from level 1 through gaming. I had one game started at 3rd...not to bad, really. and one that started out at 5th, it was difficult to play because you have a "numerically" experienced character but with NO personality built in. It's difficult to play a character like that.
Titan W 10-08-06, 08:20 PM	Well for pixie rogue I would definately do something like this (But this is again an opinion like the others) Rogue 3 Wizard 5 Arcane trixter 1 (Take Arcane Trixter to 10 and finish with rogue straight up). This is a bit complex and I don't know your PRC rules but generally the spellcasting helps at later levels anyway and since you have low damage from weapons due to being so small they will allow you to have reputable damage and it will even scale with level along side sneak attack. Not to mention that Ranged Legerdemain allowing you to DD and open lock at 30 feet is great. As is Improptu Sneak attack (Free SA 1/day is awsome with some of the spells you will get). Downside is that you are about 2 Sneak Attack dice behind and will be a bit behind in your disable device and open lock etc. As a counter to that you can always take the wizard levels first (Meet Decipher script and Knowledge requirements early and gain knowledge Dungeoneering and put 1/2 ranks into your Hide, Move Silently, and Disable Device. Then you can get the rest back when you go rogue and have an extra 6 skill points per level (This requires a primary atribute of INT BTW) and isn't a big deal. Once you hit trixter you get all rogue skills, but loose 4 of your skill points per level, but gain full spell progression as a wizard (Very nice) however have to buy all your spells now (But you have up to 3rd learned already). It's a bit complicated but fun in the end as you gain all of the wizard spells and still have the sneak attack and the rogue neccicary skills. (Ability dependency will be INT>DEX>CON>WIS>CHA>STR) and you will want the weapon finesse feat once you can get it. Equipment gold will probably go about 10k to spells (Wizard is for versatility) and then you have the original 5k to buy things like bracers of natural armor for AC, since you are so small this is good because of the carrying capacity issue, lower weight if most of your stuff goes to the spellbook. Just an IMO. Also can create a very interesting back story.
Dragonsblood 10-08-06, 11:10 PM	Me: Did you use the NPC starting gold table to give me my gold? Bro: Yes. Me: ...But I'm not an NPC... Bro: ....yeah you are. Me: ...so I'm a figment of your imagination? :confused: Bro: Yep! :D He agreed to up me to 15k, which is good enough I suppose :bored: Are you always this much of a pushover with him? You're not going to have fun with a DM that railroads you, or if you're not on equal footing with the other players.
Balseraph 10-09-06, 01:11 AM	I agree with Dragonsblood in principle. If you don't want to play a rogue, ask to play something else. I've never found a situation where a party needs a character of a certain class. We've run games without healers, rogues, front-line fighter-types... my current Eberron game PCs rely on wands and scrolls and potions for healing! Also, I totally agree that you'd probably have more fun starting at level one in a traditional (i.e. non-evil :P) campaign ;)
allenchan 10-09-06, 02:03 AM	There are other ways to gain trapfinding, if thats the main issue. However, there are ways to deal with traps without having a trap finder in the first place. Everything you've told me thus far makes me wary of your brother's ability to DM. However, I still encourage you to try and have fun, just dont blame dnd and write it off completely if things end up sour, it would be a shame.
pukunui 10-09-06, 02:04 AM	If anyone in your group has the PHB2, or if you've got the money to burn on it, there's a very useful "quick PC/NPC generation guide" at the back of the book. It has such things as lists of useful equipment for the various classes at each level (1-20). It also gives suggested feat paths and spells, etc etc. There are also example NPCs of all levels in the DMG with lists of equipment and the like -- that would give you an idea of what your PC ought to have. Also, if your brother's just making you play a rogue to cover the Disable Device aspect of things, you might be able to play a Scout or a Beguiler instead. Both classes have Disable Device as a class skill (although for the Scout, you have to read the official Complete Adventurer errata to know that ...), although neither grants you the Sneak Attack ability. The Scout is like a rogue/ranger and is in the Complete Adventurer and the beguiler is like a rogue/specialist wizard and is in the PHB2.