First time Gestalt [Archive] - Wizards Community

First time Gestalt [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Archmonarch
06-03-04, 04:54 PM I know the basic rules pretty well, but Im still a little iffy on some things. My DM wants to play a gestalt campaign and Im leaning towards either a monk/cleric or a monk/psion. Which would you suggest?

I havent assigned my ability scores yet, but my rolls were:
16, 18, 15, 17, 17, 14. Yes, I know theyre high, but I was lucky.
Veton
06-03-04, 07:25 PM Originally posted by Archmonarch
I know the basic rules pretty well, but Im still a little iffy on some things. My DM wants to play a gestalt campaign and Im leaning towards either a monk/cleric or a monk/psion. Which would you suggest?

I havent assigned my ability scores yet, but my rolls were:
16, 18, 15, 17, 17, 14. Yes, I know theyre high, but I was lucky.

Monk/Cleric would be a good combination, due to the fact that your spells rely on Wisdom, so you don't need another stat to keep up high. You can also do flurry of blows with a touch spell (but it'll only work once per spell) and zip around the battlefield, healing your allies.
Edymnion
06-03-04, 07:59 PM I want to play a Gestalt Monk/Sorcerer or Monk/Psion.
Yeah, I just really want to do that whole Dragonball Z thing ;)
Lord Psynister
06-03-04, 08:06 PM Which book/mag is the Gestalt in?
Shadezz0fHades
06-03-04, 08:23 PM Its a simple thing, gestalt is. 2 classes per level stead of one.
From UA or AU or one of them things..
Choronis
06-03-04, 08:51 PM becuz i dont own unearthed arcana, can someone tell me plz wut the downfall of gestalt chars are? i mean, theres gotta be a penalty for being able to progress in 2 different classes with 1 level...
Thorak
06-03-04, 09:00 PM The downfall is that they're not intended to be mixed with normal characters. Either you're playing in a Gestalt campaign with all-Gestalt characters and thus much higher CRs for the party level to reflect the increased power of the PCs, or you're not and they're completely not an option.

And to the point in question; you're best off picking two classes that are different, statistically, while retaining similar stat bases. Ideally, you want all three saves to be good, at least a d6 if not a d8 or 10 HD, at least a 3/4 BAB and prefereably full, etc. For instance, your cleric/monk is going to always have a 3/4 BAB and d8 HD. Since I assume he'll be a combat-char, even the cleric buffs will fade in comparison to the Barbarian/Sorceror or Wizard with his d12 HD and full BAB. Since both have full casting power to boot.

Or find a nifty multi-boost. Like the Druid/Rogue, whose Animal Companion can help him get easy flanking in combat, in Wildshape, for massive-damage sneak attacks. Sure, his hit points are only a D8, but the damage makes up for it and he's got healing spells.
Edymnion
06-03-04, 09:29 PM Gestalt characters are from Unearthed Arcana, and are only ment for VERY small parties, as in only one or two PCs in the party instead of the standard 4. You essentially level up in both classes every time, and just take the best from each class at each level up (say this save from this class, that ability from that class, etc).

It has a great big warning there in the book that Gestalt characters are NOT supposed to be used in a normal party, or in "mixed company" (aka some gestalt characters, some normal ones), they're just a varient rule for characters to allow smaller parties to cover their bases more easily. So a Gestalt Fighter/Cleric and Wizard/Rogue would be only two characters, but they could handle the non-combat situations of a party of 4.
Serene Selene
06-03-04, 10:04 PM Currently playing a Gestalt character, in a solo campaign. Paladin of Tyranny Variant/Specialist Enchanter Variant. I have to say, a very horrible case of MAD, and not too optimal combat-wise.

Then again, I couldn't resist playing a Tyrant. :behold:
LordArkan
06-03-04, 11:32 PM Keep in mind that the way the numbers work can cause some stupidity with your BAB and Saves. Whatever you do, find a way to get your progressions offset.

Ex. Fighter 1/Wizard 19
with Sorcerer 20

You have a BAB of +20 and base saves of +14/+12/+22. Scary, huh? Though all those d4 hit dice could hurt a bit, this is just an example. ;)
Veton
06-04-04, 12:43 AM Originally posted by LordArkan
Keep in mind that the way the numbers work can cause some stupidity with your BAB and Saves. Whatever you do, find a way to get your progressions offset.

Ex. Fighter 1/Wizard 19
with Sorcerer 20

You have a BAB of +20 and base saves of +14/+12/+22. Scary, huh? Though all those d4 hit dice could hurt a bit, this is just an example. ;)

Are you saying that by taking one Gestalt level of Fighter/Wizard, and then going Wizard/Sorcerer, you can get full BAB?

If you are, that's incorrect. Same with saves. You only take the best from the two classes you Gestalt with each level. If they are the same, you use that value.
Thorak
06-04-04, 02:41 AM Not to mention, IIRC, you can't gestalt and multiclass one of the two classes partway through. You can be a Gestalt Fighter/Wizard, or Wizard/Sorceror, or Fighter/Sorceror, but not a Fighter1/Wizard 19/Sorceror 20 Gestalt.
Veton
06-04-04, 11:31 AM Originally posted by Thorak
Not to mention, IIRC, you can't gestalt and multiclass one of the two classes partway through. You can be a Gestalt Fighter/Wizard, or Wizard/Sorceror, or Fighter/Sorceror, but not a Fighter1/Wizard 19/Sorceror 20 Gestalt.

Actually, you could. For your first level, you could be a Fighter/Wizard, and then go Gestalt Wizard/Sorcerer after that. But you don't get the benifits of being a higher level Fighter, just the benfit of having 1 level of Fighter.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Archmonarch 06-03-04, 04:54 PM	I know the basic rules pretty well, but Im still a little iffy on some things. My DM wants to play a gestalt campaign and Im leaning towards either a monk/cleric or a monk/psion. Which would you suggest? I havent assigned my ability scores yet, but my rolls were: 16, 18, 15, 17, 17, 14. Yes, I know theyre high, but I was lucky.
Veton 06-03-04, 07:25 PM	Originally posted by Archmonarch I know the basic rules pretty well, but Im still a little iffy on some things. My DM wants to play a gestalt campaign and Im leaning towards either a monk/cleric or a monk/psion. Which would you suggest? I havent assigned my ability scores yet, but my rolls were: 16, 18, 15, 17, 17, 14. Yes, I know theyre high, but I was lucky. Monk/Cleric would be a good combination, due to the fact that your spells rely on Wisdom, so you don't need another stat to keep up high. You can also do flurry of blows with a touch spell (but it'll only work once per spell) and zip around the battlefield, healing your allies.
Edymnion 06-03-04, 07:59 PM	I want to play a Gestalt Monk/Sorcerer or Monk/Psion. Yeah, I just really want to do that whole Dragonball Z thing ;)
Lord Psynister 06-03-04, 08:06 PM	Which book/mag is the Gestalt in?
Shadezz0fHades 06-03-04, 08:23 PM	Its a simple thing, gestalt is. 2 classes per level stead of one. From UA or AU or one of them things..
Choronis 06-03-04, 08:51 PM	becuz i dont own unearthed arcana, can someone tell me plz wut the downfall of gestalt chars are? i mean, theres gotta be a penalty for being able to progress in 2 different classes with 1 level...
Thorak 06-03-04, 09:00 PM	The downfall is that they're not intended to be mixed with normal characters. Either you're playing in a Gestalt campaign with all-Gestalt characters and thus much higher CRs for the party level to reflect the increased power of the PCs, or you're not and they're completely not an option. And to the point in question; you're best off picking two classes that are different, statistically, while retaining similar stat bases. Ideally, you want all three saves to be good, at least a d6 if not a d8 or 10 HD, at least a 3/4 BAB and prefereably full, etc. For instance, your cleric/monk is going to always have a 3/4 BAB and d8 HD. Since I assume he'll be a combat-char, even the cleric buffs will fade in comparison to the Barbarian/Sorceror or Wizard with his d12 HD and full BAB. Since both have full casting power to boot. Or find a nifty multi-boost. Like the Druid/Rogue, whose Animal Companion can help him get easy flanking in combat, in Wildshape, for massive-damage sneak attacks. Sure, his hit points are only a D8, but the damage makes up for it and he's got healing spells.
Edymnion 06-03-04, 09:29 PM	Gestalt characters are from Unearthed Arcana, and are only ment for VERY small parties, as in only one or two PCs in the party instead of the standard 4. You essentially level up in both classes every time, and just take the best from each class at each level up (say this save from this class, that ability from that class, etc). It has a great big warning there in the book that Gestalt characters are NOT supposed to be used in a normal party, or in "mixed company" (aka some gestalt characters, some normal ones), they're just a varient rule for characters to allow smaller parties to cover their bases more easily. So a Gestalt Fighter/Cleric and Wizard/Rogue would be only two characters, but they could handle the non-combat situations of a party of 4.
Serene Selene 06-03-04, 10:04 PM	Currently playing a Gestalt character, in a solo campaign. Paladin of Tyranny Variant/Specialist Enchanter Variant. I have to say, a very horrible case of MAD, and not too optimal combat-wise. Then again, I couldn't resist playing a Tyrant. :behold:
LordArkan 06-03-04, 11:32 PM	Keep in mind that the way the numbers work can cause some stupidity with your BAB and Saves. Whatever you do, find a way to get your progressions offset. Ex. Fighter 1/Wizard 19 with Sorcerer 20 You have a BAB of +20 and base saves of +14/+12/+22. Scary, huh? Though all those d4 hit dice could hurt a bit, this is just an example. ;)
Veton 06-04-04, 12:43 AM	Originally posted by LordArkan Keep in mind that the way the numbers work can cause some stupidity with your BAB and Saves. Whatever you do, find a way to get your progressions offset. Ex. Fighter 1/Wizard 19 with Sorcerer 20 You have a BAB of +20 and base saves of +14/+12/+22. Scary, huh? Though all those d4 hit dice could hurt a bit, this is just an example. ;) Are you saying that by taking one Gestalt level of Fighter/Wizard, and then going Wizard/Sorcerer, you can get full BAB? If you are, that's incorrect. Same with saves. You only take the best from the two classes you Gestalt with each level. If they are the same, you use that value.
Thorak 06-04-04, 02:41 AM	Not to mention, IIRC, you can't gestalt and multiclass one of the two classes partway through. You can be a Gestalt Fighter/Wizard, or Wizard/Sorceror, or Fighter/Sorceror, but not a Fighter1/Wizard 19/Sorceror 20 Gestalt.
Veton 06-04-04, 11:31 AM	Originally posted by Thorak Not to mention, IIRC, you can't gestalt and multiclass one of the two classes partway through. You can be a Gestalt Fighter/Wizard, or Wizard/Sorceror, or Fighter/Sorceror, but not a Fighter1/Wizard 19/Sorceror 20 Gestalt. Actually, you could. For your first level, you could be a Fighter/Wizard, and then go Gestalt Wizard/Sorcerer after that. But you don't get the benifits of being a higher level Fighter, just the benfit of having 1 level of Fighter.