First time paladin: How to make effective? [Archive] - Wizards Community

First time paladin: How to make effective? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Stupid Mop
12-02-06, 03:07 PM Hello all,

For the first time in my D&D career, I shall be playing as a paladin. I wanted to do something new, for I usually played a ranger for every single campaign since 1999. Thus, I thought a change was long over due.

However, I sat down and began to make my character, when I realized I was not sure what was most important for a paladin, which abilities I should favor other others, which weapons and armor I should use, and so forth. Thus:

As far as combat and weapons are concerned, what do many people seem to use with a paladin? I was leaning towards taking the exotic weapon proficiency (bastard sword) feat and using that weapon with a shield. However, I am sure as to what sort of armor I should wear, and thus I do not know whether or not I should try to have a somewhat high dexterity, at the expense of other class skills. Moreover, if you were to rank the ability scores of paladin from most important to least important, how would you personally rank them?

Any suggestions are much appreciated.
GaffeR
12-02-06, 03:30 PM Books open?

Str=Cha (Cha probably more than Str) > Con (high as possible) > Wis (14ish by higher levels) > Dex (12 if possible) > Int.
Fullplate (12 dex, you have enough stats as is)
Skip the EWP.

Power Attack, Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, Spirited Charge (last 3 if you want to use your horse). Use a Greatsword and lance. Cleave can be nice in a core-only environment.
Torack
12-02-06, 03:32 PM Go for the tin-man with a hulking big sword. Can't get much easier than that.

Skip the sword-and-board style and just whack things.
High Octane
12-02-06, 03:33 PM Use your horse. A lot.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
12-02-06, 04:05 PM Use your horse. A lot.

Preferrably in inappropriate ways....
Stormbrand
12-02-06, 09:02 PM Heaviest armour possible, then either 2-handed sword or long sword and shield, depending on which style you want to use

Good early feats, Power Attack & Cleave (good reliable no-nonsense feats), Improved Initiative & Weapon Focus.

Later feats, Improved Critical, Mounted Combat, Leadership.

A divine feat would be welcome, so that your turn undead always comes in handy.

I prefer to start with a few levels of fighter before becoming a paladin. That way you have your solid feat base to start with.
TheraerTheWanderingBard
12-02-06, 09:03 PM And don't forget, remove the stick from your ass. No one likes the paladin that left that stick where it is. Or at least... Remove the stick as much as you can...

(wow...everything I just said is wrong in so many ways)
Hufish
12-03-06, 01:37 AM Just remember...Lawful Good =/= Lawful Stupid...buy your paladin a bow and don't be afraid to shoot things that shoot at you. There's a reason they're proficient with 'em. :D
If BoED is available, Ranged Smite Evil with a longbow can be handy. As can Exalted Smite, but the second is unneeded especially if you look at the Fist of Raziel PrC.:D
Stupid Mop
12-03-06, 02:21 AM Okay, so I shall certainly drop the bastard sword idea. I suppose that would be a waste of a feat. I am still on the fence about whether or not to use a longsword/shield combination or straight out two-handed greatsword. I would enjoy the damage from the greatsword, but the protection a shield would give in enticing . . .

As far as the mount goes, do you, as a paladin, often find yourself using mounted combat? I mean, how useful can a horse be in a dungeon?

PS

Thanks for the help.
Newpaintbrush
12-03-06, 02:40 AM Wisdom for the highest level spells, but that's not really a priority for a paladin. A 12 will do just fine; you can always use a few wish spells or a tome or something to boost your Wisdom to 14 by the time you can cast those spells.

Cha for healing and stuff. Lots of "stuff" really. But saying it should outweigh your Strength, I dunno.

A bit of Dex, a bit of Str. Certainly Str 12+. Probably 14+, Dex 12 (so you can wear full plate and still get a dex bonus)

I wouldn't mess with using a feat for bastard sword. You're gonna need that feat. Power attack should be up there.

It isn't so much "Str > Wis > Cha". You want to have minimum scores. Figure on 12+ for Strength, 12-13 for Wisdom (you don't really NEED a huge Wisdom because you will almost certainly be able to boost it at some point in your career), 10-12 Dexterity (you want to have 12 ideally, but you can skimp on it), 10-12+ Con (because you want to be sure to get some hit points; you can possibly do with a 10, but you should get higher if you can), 12-14 Cha (because Cha boosts a lot of your stuff, and helps heal you early, but I wouldn't sweat it if you maxed Cha at 14), and whatever Int.
Newpaintbrush
12-03-06, 02:44 AM Okay, so I shall certainly drop the bastard sword idea. I suppose that would be a waste of a feat. I am still on the fence about whether or not to use a longsword/shield combination or straight out two-handed greatsword. I would enjoy the damage from the greatsword, but the protection a shield would give in enticing . . .

As far as the mount goes, do you, as a paladin, often find yourself using mounted combat? I mean, how useful can a horse be in a dungeon?

PS

Thanks for the help.

Uhm, I dunno about greatsword. It's pretty good with Power Attack and all, but I don't remember how riding a horse works when both hands are full. Anyways, if you get a magically enhanced shield, you can get pretty good bonuses to your AC that are often worth the damage.

If I were building a fighter with feats to spare, I would take Power Attack and Greatsword for sure. But for a paladin, I wouldn't be so sure about going for all those strictly combat oriented feats, partly because you often have to take OTHER combat oriented feats to complement your first feats, then you don't have any other feats left to do fun paladin-only things with.
RellenMarn
12-03-06, 03:26 AM I went with a Greatsword and got myself an animated shield at the earliest oppertunity. Charisma to saves is just wonderful, so I suggest Charisma, then Strength, then Constitution, then Wisdom, then Intelligence, then Dexterity. I would even consider switching Int and Wis as long as you had a twelve for Wis, as skill points will be few and far between.

The greatest strength of my Paladin was his status as Mr Save. With maxed Charisma you have drool worthy saves. I cannot remember failing a save with that character, he hauled the party out of several messes.

Make use of your steed! My first question in any room, dungeon or otherwise was how high is the ceiling? Pop in Mr Ed from the Celestial realm and go to town.

For feats I suggest, Improved Initiative, Improved Toughness, Improved Smiting, Improved Critical, Improved Turning, Weapon Focus, and the Riding Feats.

Skills max Ride, and Diplomacy (you've got the Charisma for it afterall), Take a few ranks of Knowledge Religion - you only care about your God all others are meaningless! You probably won't have much left skill point wise.

Hope that helps, and I wish you luck with your new character.
CaoSlayer
12-03-06, 03:45 AM For Dungeon crawls, get halfling or gnome as your race because this allows you to use a riding dog for a mount and you will have not the troubles of having a large horse in a small dungeon.
Dei
12-03-06, 09:08 AM As far as the mount goes, do you, as a paladin, often find yourself using mounted combat? I mean, how useful can a horse be in a dungeon?

Well if you want to use the mounted combat option more often become a halfling paladin. There was a thread on it a while ago which you should be able to search for. With the small size you get a medium mount meaning you can use it in dungeons, etc. There's something about the image of a halfling in full plate charging you from atop a slobbering great St Bernard that just appeals to me. :P

Apart from that the suggestions mentioned here are pretty solid, greatsword tends to be a more popular option and there's plenty of divine abilities a paladin can grab to make up for the loss of a shield. For damage output though few things beat mounted combat, I've seen enemy casters killed in the first round time and again with lance charges and even barbarians reel away from a nice critical.
Crystal Monk
12-03-06, 10:01 AM here's a different suggestion that I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with:
if you're able to have a high enough DEX (after the other stats are taken care of, I agree that it's not as important to a Paladin as others), go for light armor. you'll be able to take advantage of the greater movement speed when you're on foot; it's amazing the difference that moving 6 squares in combat vs. 4 squares can make. it'll also make a difference for you when you're mounted, as Ride is a DEX-based skill, and not having your armor drag down your DEX bonus is definitely a good thing.

this will also make you more effective at ranged combat; as Hufish said, you definitely need to get one of those. when you're facing a being of pure and unmistakable evil, there's no harm or dishonor in hitting first and hitting again before they can get to you.

having said that, a few thoughts on being a paladin:
in my opinion, a paladin is a true soldier, if not a general, in the war between good and evil. think Captain America meets Patton with an angel who's got his back. :D a paladin is a lot more than just a sword arm or a meat shield, he/she's someone whom a god has told "go forth and fight evil in my name." planning, tactics, strategy, and above all, knowledge of the enemy should be a paladin's best friends and second only to the paladin's code in his/her mind. if Plan A doesn't work, a paladin will have Plan B and Plan C prepared, just in case. a paladin will know that deeds, not words, are how you judge a being, and that his/her enemies are often the greatest liars on all the planes. a paladin would never walk blindly into a problem situation thinking that everything is as it appears; instead, a paladin would be prepared for what he/she thinks might happen and be ready to improvise if something else happens. and despite many examples to the contrary, a paladin would not be stupid.

as for the rest of the party, a paladin should understand that not everyone thinks like he/she does, and accept that, being willing to let others do what they do so long as it's for the good of the party and their mission. while a paladin would likely frown on casual theft, a paladin would also know that a rogue's skills at stealth, trapfinding, and infiltration are valuable abilities that can be very useful and very helpful to the party. while paladins often take on the role of party leaders, a paladin would not turn into a dictator; rather, he/she would listen to what everyone in the party has to say and form a plan based on their input and their abilities, and work with them as a team to get it done. a paladin who's been with the same group for some time, and thus has formed strong bonds with them, puts great value on their lives and would easily risk his own to save them.

I think I've gone on long enough, sorry.
Zinegata
12-03-06, 08:31 PM I would say "It depends."

There are different ways of playing a Paladin, though it tends to favor a character that needs good leadership, horsemanship, resistance against magic, and decent frontline combat skills. Look at what niche your party needs and work from there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Stupid Mop 12-02-06, 03:07 PM	Hello all, For the first time in my D&D career, I shall be playing as a paladin. I wanted to do something new, for I usually played a ranger for every single campaign since 1999. Thus, I thought a change was long over due. However, I sat down and began to make my character, when I realized I was not sure what was most important for a paladin, which abilities I should favor other others, which weapons and armor I should use, and so forth. Thus: As far as combat and weapons are concerned, what do many people seem to use with a paladin? I was leaning towards taking the exotic weapon proficiency (bastard sword) feat and using that weapon with a shield. However, I am sure as to what sort of armor I should wear, and thus I do not know whether or not I should try to have a somewhat high dexterity, at the expense of other class skills. Moreover, if you were to rank the ability scores of paladin from most important to least important, how would you personally rank them? Any suggestions are much appreciated.
GaffeR 12-02-06, 03:30 PM	Books open? Str=Cha (Cha probably more than Str) > Con (high as possible) > Wis (14ish by higher levels) > Dex (12 if possible) > Int. Fullplate (12 dex, you have enough stats as is) Skip the EWP. Power Attack, Mounted Combat, Ride By Attack, Spirited Charge (last 3 if you want to use your horse). Use a Greatsword and lance. Cleave can be nice in a core-only environment.
Torack 12-02-06, 03:32 PM	Go for the tin-man with a hulking big sword. Can't get much easier than that. Skip the sword-and-board style and just whack things.
High Octane 12-02-06, 03:33 PM	Use your horse. A lot.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 12-02-06, 04:05 PM	Use your horse. A lot. Preferrably in inappropriate ways....
Stormbrand 12-02-06, 09:02 PM	Heaviest armour possible, then either 2-handed sword or long sword and shield, depending on which style you want to use Good early feats, Power Attack & Cleave (good reliable no-nonsense feats), Improved Initiative & Weapon Focus. Later feats, Improved Critical, Mounted Combat, Leadership. A divine feat would be welcome, so that your turn undead always comes in handy. I prefer to start with a few levels of fighter before becoming a paladin. That way you have your solid feat base to start with.
TheraerTheWanderingBard 12-02-06, 09:03 PM	And don't forget, remove the stick from your ass. No one likes the paladin that left that stick where it is. Or at least... Remove the stick as much as you can... (wow...everything I just said is wrong in so many ways)
Hufish 12-03-06, 01:37 AM	Just remember...Lawful Good =/= Lawful Stupid...buy your paladin a bow and don't be afraid to shoot things that shoot at you. There's a reason they're proficient with 'em. :D If BoED is available, Ranged Smite Evil with a longbow can be handy. As can Exalted Smite, but the second is unneeded especially if you look at the Fist of Raziel PrC.:D
Stupid Mop 12-03-06, 02:21 AM	Okay, so I shall certainly drop the bastard sword idea. I suppose that would be a waste of a feat. I am still on the fence about whether or not to use a longsword/shield combination or straight out two-handed greatsword. I would enjoy the damage from the greatsword, but the protection a shield would give in enticing . . . As far as the mount goes, do you, as a paladin, often find yourself using mounted combat? I mean, how useful can a horse be in a dungeon? PS Thanks for the help.
Newpaintbrush 12-03-06, 02:40 AM	Wisdom for the highest level spells, but that's not really a priority for a paladin. A 12 will do just fine; you can always use a few wish spells or a tome or something to boost your Wisdom to 14 by the time you can cast those spells. Cha for healing and stuff. Lots of "stuff" really. But saying it should outweigh your Strength, I dunno. A bit of Dex, a bit of Str. Certainly Str 12+. Probably 14+, Dex 12 (so you can wear full plate and still get a dex bonus) I wouldn't mess with using a feat for bastard sword. You're gonna need that feat. Power attack should be up there. It isn't so much "Str > Wis > Cha". You want to have minimum scores. Figure on 12+ for Strength, 12-13 for Wisdom (you don't really NEED a huge Wisdom because you will almost certainly be able to boost it at some point in your career), 10-12 Dexterity (you want to have 12 ideally, but you can skimp on it), 10-12+ Con (because you want to be sure to get some hit points; you can possibly do with a 10, but you should get higher if you can), 12-14 Cha (because Cha boosts a lot of your stuff, and helps heal you early, but I wouldn't sweat it if you maxed Cha at 14), and whatever Int.
Newpaintbrush 12-03-06, 02:44 AM	Okay, so I shall certainly drop the bastard sword idea. I suppose that would be a waste of a feat. I am still on the fence about whether or not to use a longsword/shield combination or straight out two-handed greatsword. I would enjoy the damage from the greatsword, but the protection a shield would give in enticing . . . As far as the mount goes, do you, as a paladin, often find yourself using mounted combat? I mean, how useful can a horse be in a dungeon? PS Thanks for the help. Uhm, I dunno about greatsword. It's pretty good with Power Attack and all, but I don't remember how riding a horse works when both hands are full. Anyways, if you get a magically enhanced shield, you can get pretty good bonuses to your AC that are often worth the damage. If I were building a fighter with feats to spare, I would take Power Attack and Greatsword for sure. But for a paladin, I wouldn't be so sure about going for all those strictly combat oriented feats, partly because you often have to take OTHER combat oriented feats to complement your first feats, then you don't have any other feats left to do fun paladin-only things with.
RellenMarn 12-03-06, 03:26 AM	I went with a Greatsword and got myself an animated shield at the earliest oppertunity. Charisma to saves is just wonderful, so I suggest Charisma, then Strength, then Constitution, then Wisdom, then Intelligence, then Dexterity. I would even consider switching Int and Wis as long as you had a twelve for Wis, as skill points will be few and far between. The greatest strength of my Paladin was his status as Mr Save. With maxed Charisma you have drool worthy saves. I cannot remember failing a save with that character, he hauled the party out of several messes. Make use of your steed! My first question in any room, dungeon or otherwise was how high is the ceiling? Pop in Mr Ed from the Celestial realm and go to town. For feats I suggest, Improved Initiative, Improved Toughness, Improved Smiting, Improved Critical, Improved Turning, Weapon Focus, and the Riding Feats. Skills max Ride, and Diplomacy (you've got the Charisma for it afterall), Take a few ranks of Knowledge Religion - you only care about your God all others are meaningless! You probably won't have much left skill point wise. Hope that helps, and I wish you luck with your new character.
CaoSlayer 12-03-06, 03:45 AM	For Dungeon crawls, get halfling or gnome as your race because this allows you to use a riding dog for a mount and you will have not the troubles of having a large horse in a small dungeon.
Dei 12-03-06, 09:08 AM	As far as the mount goes, do you, as a paladin, often find yourself using mounted combat? I mean, how useful can a horse be in a dungeon? Well if you want to use the mounted combat option more often become a halfling paladin. There was a thread on it a while ago which you should be able to search for. With the small size you get a medium mount meaning you can use it in dungeons, etc. There's something about the image of a halfling in full plate charging you from atop a slobbering great St Bernard that just appeals to me. :P Apart from that the suggestions mentioned here are pretty solid, greatsword tends to be a more popular option and there's plenty of divine abilities a paladin can grab to make up for the loss of a shield. For damage output though few things beat mounted combat, I've seen enemy casters killed in the first round time and again with lance charges and even barbarians reel away from a nice critical.
Crystal Monk 12-03-06, 10:01 AM	here's a different suggestion that I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with: if you're able to have a high enough DEX (after the other stats are taken care of, I agree that it's not as important to a Paladin as others), go for light armor. you'll be able to take advantage of the greater movement speed when you're on foot; it's amazing the difference that moving 6 squares in combat vs. 4 squares can make. it'll also make a difference for you when you're mounted, as Ride is a DEX-based skill, and not having your armor drag down your DEX bonus is definitely a good thing. this will also make you more effective at ranged combat; as Hufish said, you definitely need to get one of those. when you're facing a being of pure and unmistakable evil, there's no harm or dishonor in hitting first and hitting again before they can get to you. having said that, a few thoughts on being a paladin: in my opinion, a paladin is a true soldier, if not a general, in the war between good and evil. think Captain America meets Patton with an angel who's got his back. :D a paladin is a lot more than just a sword arm or a meat shield, he/she's someone whom a god has told "go forth and fight evil in my name." planning, tactics, strategy, and above all, knowledge of the enemy should be a paladin's best friends and second only to the paladin's code in his/her mind. if Plan A doesn't work, a paladin will have Plan B and Plan C prepared, just in case. a paladin will know that deeds, not words, are how you judge a being, and that his/her enemies are often the greatest liars on all the planes. a paladin would never walk blindly into a problem situation thinking that everything is as it appears; instead, a paladin would be prepared for what he/she thinks might happen and be ready to improvise if something else happens. and despite many examples to the contrary, a paladin would not be stupid. as for the rest of the party, a paladin should understand that not everyone thinks like he/she does, and accept that, being willing to let others do what they do so long as it's for the good of the party and their mission. while a paladin would likely frown on casual theft, a paladin would also know that a rogue's skills at stealth, trapfinding, and infiltration are valuable abilities that can be very useful and very helpful to the party. while paladins often take on the role of party leaders, a paladin would not turn into a dictator; rather, he/she would listen to what everyone in the party has to say and form a plan based on their input and their abilities, and work with them as a team to get it done. a paladin who's been with the same group for some time, and thus has formed strong bonds with them, puts great value on their lives and would easily risk his own to save them. I think I've gone on long enough, sorry.
Zinegata 12-03-06, 08:31 PM	I would say "It depends." There are different ways of playing a Paladin, though it tends to favor a character that needs good leadership, horsemanship, resistance against magic, and decent frontline combat skills. Look at what niche your party needs and work from there.