first time playing a monk, and I'd like some help... [Archive] - Wizards Community

first time playing a monk, and I'd like some help... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Crimson_Concerto
08-07-06, 02:17 AM I know very well that monks are not supposed to be tanks or major melee damage-dealers. That what our fighter is for, and he is very good at what he does. I know this, and I accept it, but I want to know what it is I CAN do well. I know Monks make great mage-killers, but what else? Shoudl I be concentrating more on maneuvers such as grappling, disarming, tripping, etc? I also know maneuverability is a very good strong point for monks, but how do I make this deadly well-appreciated in the group?

Basically, I'm asking how to make sure the group appreciates my work even though I know I can't take or deal as much damage, sneak as well, cast any spells, etc.
Jet Destro
08-07-06, 02:46 AM I know very well that monks are not supposed to be tanks or major melee damage-dealers.

Problem 1 in your monk creation. Monks, like rogues, cant stand up to damage as well as, say barbarians or fights, but can dish out amazing amounts of damage.

Shoudl I be concentrating more on maneuvers such as grappling, disarming, tripping, etc? I also know maneuverability is a very good strong point for monks, but how do I make this deadly well-appreciated in the group?

There is several things we need to know first. What level is your campain? Are you going pure monk? ect/ect.

BUT to answer your question to the best of my ability, it is simply do whatever you feel your party needs/ you want to do.

NOW, some monk tips.
Out of sandstorm, feat named Scorpain's Strike (could be somthing similar, I dont have book on hand.) In essence, gives the monk improved grab with unarmed attacks and weapons.
If your a munckin, VoP
Multiclassing is your friend. The Ascetic (class) feats from complete adventurer are REALLY powerfull and REALLY flavorfull. Great multi class option.

Combat wise, use your (presumed) High ac to your advantage. If you plan on tripping/grappling or similar combat stratages, consiter the battle focus feats in PHB2, wrestling feats from complete warrior, and look for interesting feat compinations. (Fling ally is a GREAT combat trick, and the large size requirement is easilly munckined around, assuming your DM oks it. Fling eniemy is just hilariously effective.)
Crimson_Concerto
08-07-06, 04:08 AM Problem 1 in your monk creation. Monks, like rogues, cant stand up to damage as well as, say barbarians or fights, but can dish out amazing amounts of damage.Well while that may be true in a normal scenario, our party's fighter is a MAJOR munchkin (he's literally unable to resist to the point we think he needs psychological help about it), and he's most likely to be dealing at the very least triple my damage. (What's worse is that he also does a lot of stuff that's againt the rules, because even though he thinks he knows the rules well, he doesn't, and he gets angry at me for making him less powerful when I correct him, which is dumb because he STILL always ends up over-powered anyways, because of how much he always manages to get under the DM's radar that any sane DM would never approve of and then complains to no end when the DM tries to tell him he should not have done something without permission... but that's another story...)

There is several things we need to know first. What level is your campain? Are you going pure monk? ect/ect.We're starting at level 1, and I'm not really a fan of multiclassing too much. I'm considering taking the Denying Stance variant in Unearthed Arcana.

NOW, some monk tips.
Out of sandstorm, feat named Scorpain's Strike (could be somthing similar, I dont have book on hand.) In essence, gives the monk improved grab with unarmed attacks and weapons.
If your a munckin, VoP
Multiclassing is your friend. The Ascetic (class) feats from complete adventurer are REALLY powerfull and REALLY flavorfull. Great multi class option.I don't really like multi-classing, and the rest of the party decided it would be an evil campaign without me, so while I am intreagued by the Exalted alignment, even if I wanted to, taking Vow of Poverty isn't too much of an option. However, thanks for recommending this "Scorpion's Grasp." I'm looking through Sandstorm, and it looks pretty useful.

Combat wise, use your (presumed) High ac to your advantage. If you plan on tripping/grappling or similar combat stratages, consiter the battle focus feats in PHB2, wrestling feats from complete warrior, and look for interesting feat compinations. (Fling ally is a GREAT combat trick, and the large size requirement is easilly munckined around, assuming your DM oks it. Fling eniemy is just hilariously effective.)My AC's okay. We're using the defense bonus variant and I'm a warforged, so my AC's 18 right now. I know the WIS penalty isn't great, but I rolled very good stats, so it doesn't bother me too much. I don't have access to any of those books you mentioned, but I'll take a look at them when I get the chance, thanks.
Nom
08-07-06, 10:18 AM One effective monk technique is to pair up with a rogue. You grapple 'em, and he sneak attacks.

The monk's job is to take down skirmishers (especially spellcasters), not to be a first-line fighter.
kelvinaw273
08-07-06, 10:29 AM Well while that may be true in a normal scenario, our party's fighter is a MAJOR munchkin (he's literally unable to resist to the point we think he needs psychological help about it), and he's most likely to be dealing at the very least triple my damage. (What's worse is that he also does a lot of stuff that's againt the rules, because even though he thinks he knows the rules well, he doesn't, and he gets angry at me for making him less powerful when I correct him, which is dumb because he STILL always ends up over-powered anyways, because of how much he always manages to get under the DM's radar that any sane DM would never approve of and then complains to no end when the DM tries to tell him he should not have done something without permission... but that's another story...)

We're starting at level 1, and I'm not really a fan of multiclassing too much. I'm considering taking the Denying Stance variant in Unearthed Arcana.

My advice, take a straight Monk. Your 1st level feat choices are Stunning Fist as your Monk bonus feat and Improved Initiative. You have speed and mobility, so use it with Tumble ranks at max. Right now your best tactic is to get into position, dash in and either hit spellcasters or keep the BBEG occupied until the tank gets there.

I don't really like multi-classing, and the rest of the party decided it would be an evil campaign without me, so while I am intreagued by the Exalted alignment, even if I wanted to, taking Vow of Poverty isn't too much of an option. However, thanks for recommending this "Scorpion's Grasp." I'm looking through Sandstorm, and it looks pretty useful.

I hate it when that happens. Monks are just made to be ethical. No matter, you can do a LN monk instead and keep your options open.

My AC's okay. We're using the defense bonus variant and I'm a warforged, so my AC's 18 right now. I know the WIS penalty isn't great, but I rolled very good stats, so it doesn't bother me too much. I don't have access to any of those books you mentioned, but I'll take a look at them when I get the chance, thanks.

Now, you need to plan ahead. If you have the XPH, and you have a feat left, take Wild Talent or a psionic race. This opens up loads of extra feats for you. If not, take Dodge. Regardless you take Weapon Finesse at 3rd level (unless you rolled amazing strength, in which case Weapon Focus (unarmed) is your choice - you need to get your attack bonus up as fast as possible.

Conentrate on your AC, because you have no armour. A big advantage for a monk is that their AC is often their touch AC as well (makes them brilliant at hitting mages), so concentrate on it - take a ring of protection over bracers of armour if you can. Even if you do not like multiclassing, there are some cool monk prestige classes out there, take note of them.

Now recall some key features of a monk:

1) You have skills - use them to back up your rogue, bard and mage.

2) You have special abilities, but your feats are limited in number - choose well. Your mobility is amazing, so use it.

3) You have the best saves around, so be prepared to save everyone's bacon when the BBEG let's loose Mass Domination, Hellblast or even a simple Hold Person.

4) Victory goes to those who are 'fastest with the mostest' - you are not the mostest but you are the fastest: as a fighter, remember that you can hit reasonably hard and very often but that taking it back isn't your forte. Fight not harder but smarter, pick your battle and make sure you win.

5) Your BAB isn't brilliant, so make up for it by tripping opponants, grappling and flanking to get the advantage.
Stumm_Dolch
08-07-06, 10:46 AM If you've got the strength, disarm is your best friend. Nothing like forcing that orc to duke it out with you.
Tembo
08-08-06, 09:40 AM Movement is the monk's greatest advantage, so use it to the best of your ability. Skills like Jump, Balance, and Tumble are invaluble. Use these skills in combat, it'll change the momentum and shape of the battlefield.

Feats are what will separate your monk from every other, so have a long term plan ready when you begin your character. I suggest Improved Trip or Disarm, and, for me, a monk without the Running feat isn't really a monk.

An easy way to put a monk on par with the fighter types of the group is to allow the party caster to cast a couple of buff spells before combat. Plus, to be fair, it'll allow the fighter types to charge up to battle (ground that is easily covered by a monk) so as not to reach the actual battle as the monk is finishing off the last of the foes :D

As a final disclaimer, I (and my group- one being a level 15 monk) play 3.0. I don't know what the difference is between 3.0 and 3.5, but these ideas are based on 3.0.
Scizerus
08-08-06, 02:13 PM BoED, Vow of Poverty. period.
old_school_gamer1991
08-08-06, 02:26 PM i consider taking the tattoed monk prestige class in complete warrior it allows you to still take monk levels and adds some bonuses that are very helpful the monk in our party didnt really know how to play one...but he did very well as a damage dealer...monks in my oppinion are too uberfied...but that is just my oppinion
LordHawkeye
08-08-06, 10:29 PM I like the henshin mystic prestige class for monks myself if that helps.

Your movement is the biggest asset. You can loop around to the enemy spellcaster and stun him as he tries to cast and with that speed, he'll be very hard pressed to get the distance he needs to cast safely. Best think of yourself as a spellcasting harrier. Especially since you eventually get spell resistance to boot.
tiluvias99
08-09-06, 02:51 AM BoED, Vow of Poverty. period.Ugh... no. VoP doesn't do much for a monk- and it gives him some incredibly glaring weaknesses. The bonuses provided, while seeming cool at first, are pretty much worthless compared tothe kinds of magic items you can get in the upper levels.

Then again, in a low to no magic game, VoP rocks.

Monks are best used as skirmishers, moving in, stunning, and then moving out, using spring attack and stunning fist. The only problem with this is that it puts the monk in a support role- which while it will greatly increase the effectiveness of a party, means the monk never really stands out. A lot of players don't enjoy such a role though.

I expect Solbergb will come along some time soon. He strongly advocates monks as melee characters, moving in with high speed, and using trips, stuns, and grapples to disable opponents and then full attack. This apparently worked for him... I'm of the opinion that most of the time a fighter will do this better, and the monk is often likely to just end up dead trying to do this against any front-line monster.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Crimson_Concerto 08-07-06, 02:17 AM	I know very well that monks are not supposed to be tanks or major melee damage-dealers. That what our fighter is for, and he is very good at what he does. I know this, and I accept it, but I want to know what it is I CAN do well. I know Monks make great mage-killers, but what else? Shoudl I be concentrating more on maneuvers such as grappling, disarming, tripping, etc? I also know maneuverability is a very good strong point for monks, but how do I make this deadly well-appreciated in the group? Basically, I'm asking how to make sure the group appreciates my work even though I know I can't take or deal as much damage, sneak as well, cast any spells, etc.
Jet Destro 08-07-06, 02:46 AM	I know very well that monks are not supposed to be tanks or major melee damage-dealers. Problem 1 in your monk creation. Monks, like rogues, cant stand up to damage as well as, say barbarians or fights, but can dish out amazing amounts of damage. Shoudl I be concentrating more on maneuvers such as grappling, disarming, tripping, etc? I also know maneuverability is a very good strong point for monks, but how do I make this deadly well-appreciated in the group? There is several things we need to know first. What level is your campain? Are you going pure monk? ect/ect. BUT to answer your question to the best of my ability, it is simply do whatever you feel your party needs/ you want to do. NOW, some monk tips. Out of sandstorm, feat named Scorpain's Strike (could be somthing similar, I dont have book on hand.) In essence, gives the monk improved grab with unarmed attacks and weapons. If your a munckin, VoP Multiclassing is your friend. The Ascetic (class) feats from complete adventurer are REALLY powerfull and REALLY flavorfull. Great multi class option. Combat wise, use your (presumed) High ac to your advantage. If you plan on tripping/grappling or similar combat stratages, consiter the battle focus feats in PHB2, wrestling feats from complete warrior, and look for interesting feat compinations. (Fling ally is a GREAT combat trick, and the large size requirement is easilly munckined around, assuming your DM oks it. Fling eniemy is just hilariously effective.)
Crimson_Concerto 08-07-06, 04:08 AM	Problem 1 in your monk creation. Monks, like rogues, cant stand up to damage as well as, say barbarians or fights, but can dish out amazing amounts of damage.Well while that may be true in a normal scenario, our party's fighter is a MAJOR munchkin (he's literally unable to resist to the point we think he needs psychological help about it), and he's most likely to be dealing at the very least triple my damage. (What's worse is that he also does a lot of stuff that's againt the rules, because even though he thinks he knows the rules well, he doesn't, and he gets angry at me for making him less powerful when I correct him, which is dumb because he STILL always ends up over-powered anyways, because of how much he always manages to get under the DM's radar that any sane DM would never approve of and then complains to no end when the DM tries to tell him he should not have done something without permission... but that's another story...) There is several things we need to know first. What level is your campain? Are you going pure monk? ect/ect.We're starting at level 1, and I'm not really a fan of multiclassing too much. I'm considering taking the Denying Stance variant in Unearthed Arcana. NOW, some monk tips. Out of sandstorm, feat named Scorpain's Strike (could be somthing similar, I dont have book on hand.) In essence, gives the monk improved grab with unarmed attacks and weapons. If your a munckin, VoP Multiclassing is your friend. The Ascetic (class) feats from complete adventurer are REALLY powerfull and REALLY flavorfull. Great multi class option.I don't really like multi-classing, and the rest of the party decided it would be an evil campaign without me, so while I am intreagued by the Exalted alignment, even if I wanted to, taking Vow of Poverty isn't too much of an option. However, thanks for recommending this "Scorpion's Grasp." I'm looking through Sandstorm, and it looks pretty useful. Combat wise, use your (presumed) High ac to your advantage. If you plan on tripping/grappling or similar combat stratages, consiter the battle focus feats in PHB2, wrestling feats from complete warrior, and look for interesting feat compinations. (Fling ally is a GREAT combat trick, and the large size requirement is easilly munckined around, assuming your DM oks it. Fling eniemy is just hilariously effective.)My AC's okay. We're using the defense bonus variant and I'm a warforged, so my AC's 18 right now. I know the WIS penalty isn't great, but I rolled very good stats, so it doesn't bother me too much. I don't have access to any of those books you mentioned, but I'll take a look at them when I get the chance, thanks.
Nom 08-07-06, 10:18 AM	One effective monk technique is to pair up with a rogue. You grapple 'em, and he sneak attacks. The monk's job is to take down skirmishers (especially spellcasters), not to be a first-line fighter.
kelvinaw273 08-07-06, 10:29 AM	Well while that may be true in a normal scenario, our party's fighter is a MAJOR munchkin (he's literally unable to resist to the point we think he needs psychological help about it), and he's most likely to be dealing at the very least triple my damage. (What's worse is that he also does a lot of stuff that's againt the rules, because even though he thinks he knows the rules well, he doesn't, and he gets angry at me for making him less powerful when I correct him, which is dumb because he STILL always ends up over-powered anyways, because of how much he always manages to get under the DM's radar that any sane DM would never approve of and then complains to no end when the DM tries to tell him he should not have done something without permission... but that's another story...) We're starting at level 1, and I'm not really a fan of multiclassing too much. I'm considering taking the Denying Stance variant in Unearthed Arcana. My advice, take a straight Monk. Your 1st level feat choices are Stunning Fist as your Monk bonus feat and Improved Initiative. You have speed and mobility, so use it with Tumble ranks at max. Right now your best tactic is to get into position, dash in and either hit spellcasters or keep the BBEG occupied until the tank gets there. I don't really like multi-classing, and the rest of the party decided it would be an evil campaign without me, so while I am intreagued by the Exalted alignment, even if I wanted to, taking Vow of Poverty isn't too much of an option. However, thanks for recommending this "Scorpion's Grasp." I'm looking through Sandstorm, and it looks pretty useful. I hate it when that happens. Monks are just made to be ethical. No matter, you can do a LN monk instead and keep your options open. My AC's okay. We're using the defense bonus variant and I'm a warforged, so my AC's 18 right now. I know the WIS penalty isn't great, but I rolled very good stats, so it doesn't bother me too much. I don't have access to any of those books you mentioned, but I'll take a look at them when I get the chance, thanks. Now, you need to plan ahead. If you have the XPH, and you have a feat left, take Wild Talent or a psionic race. This opens up loads of extra feats for you. If not, take Dodge. Regardless you take Weapon Finesse at 3rd level (unless you rolled amazing strength, in which case Weapon Focus (unarmed) is your choice - you need to get your attack bonus up as fast as possible. Conentrate on your AC, because you have no armour. A big advantage for a monk is that their AC is often their touch AC as well (makes them brilliant at hitting mages), so concentrate on it - take a ring of protection over bracers of armour if you can. Even if you do not like multiclassing, there are some cool monk prestige classes out there, take note of them. Now recall some key features of a monk: 1) You have skills - use them to back up your rogue, bard and mage. 2) You have special abilities, but your feats are limited in number - choose well. Your mobility is amazing, so use it. 3) You have the best saves around, so be prepared to save everyone's bacon when the BBEG let's loose Mass Domination, Hellblast or even a simple Hold Person. 4) Victory goes to those who are 'fastest with the mostest' - you are not the mostest but you are the fastest: as a fighter, remember that you can hit reasonably hard and very often but that taking it back isn't your forte. Fight not harder but smarter, pick your battle and make sure you win. 5) Your BAB isn't brilliant, so make up for it by tripping opponants, grappling and flanking to get the advantage.
Stumm_Dolch 08-07-06, 10:46 AM	If you've got the strength, disarm is your best friend. Nothing like forcing that orc to duke it out with you.
Tembo 08-08-06, 09:40 AM	Movement is the monk's greatest advantage, so use it to the best of your ability. Skills like Jump, Balance, and Tumble are invaluble. Use these skills in combat, it'll change the momentum and shape of the battlefield. Feats are what will separate your monk from every other, so have a long term plan ready when you begin your character. I suggest Improved Trip or Disarm, and, for me, a monk without the Running feat isn't really a monk. An easy way to put a monk on par with the fighter types of the group is to allow the party caster to cast a couple of buff spells before combat. Plus, to be fair, it'll allow the fighter types to charge up to battle (ground that is easily covered by a monk) so as not to reach the actual battle as the monk is finishing off the last of the foes :D As a final disclaimer, I (and my group- one being a level 15 monk) play 3.0. I don't know what the difference is between 3.0 and 3.5, but these ideas are based on 3.0.
Scizerus 08-08-06, 02:13 PM	BoED, Vow of Poverty. period.
old_school_gamer1991 08-08-06, 02:26 PM	i consider taking the tattoed monk prestige class in complete warrior it allows you to still take monk levels and adds some bonuses that are very helpful the monk in our party didnt really know how to play one...but he did very well as a damage dealer...monks in my oppinion are too uberfied...but that is just my oppinion
LordHawkeye 08-08-06, 10:29 PM	I like the henshin mystic prestige class for monks myself if that helps. Your movement is the biggest asset. You can loop around to the enemy spellcaster and stun him as he tries to cast and with that speed, he'll be very hard pressed to get the distance he needs to cast safely. Best think of yourself as a spellcasting harrier. Especially since you eventually get spell resistance to boot.
tiluvias99 08-09-06, 02:51 AM	BoED, Vow of Poverty. period.Ugh... no. VoP doesn't do much for a monk- and it gives him some incredibly glaring weaknesses. The bonuses provided, while seeming cool at first, are pretty much worthless compared tothe kinds of magic items you can get in the upper levels. Then again, in a low to no magic game, VoP rocks. Monks are best used as skirmishers, moving in, stunning, and then moving out, using spring attack and stunning fist. The only problem with this is that it puts the monk in a support role- which while it will greatly increase the effectiveness of a party, means the monk never really stands out. A lot of players don't enjoy such a role though. I expect Solbergb will come along some time soon. He strongly advocates monks as melee characters, moving in with high speed, and using trips, stuns, and grapples to disable opponents and then full attack. This apparently worked for him... I'm of the opinion that most of the time a fighter will do this better, and the monk is often likely to just end up dead trying to do this against any front-line monster.