Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheSilentF 08-05-04, 05:21 PM	My fellow players critisize me cause i like FR so much. They are constantly asking me why its so great and whenever i write a dungeon based in FR they always get really stupid and all of the sudden dont feel like playing. Ive tried giving them books but they never read them:( . They all seem to have something against FR but they all love dragon lance, and its essentially the same thing, only different characters and a different world. I dont make fun of them for liking dragon lance. Does anyone have a way to get people into FR or at least make them understand its ok to play in another world with a different pantheon other than D&D? I would also like to know how many of you prefer FR over reg. D&D?
solandras 08-05-04, 05:35 PM	Well first off, base DnD takes place in GreyHawk, not Dragonlance. Although it doesn't really matter, since they don't expand on that in any form other than supplements and the gods. But as it is, I fail to see why your players hate the FR so much. Maybe it's because they tend to dislike what they hear from it, like Drizzt and Elminster. But seriously, at it is is a setting, meaning place/time. You get to make up everything else about it. Sure if you're going by the base setting, then it includes stuff going on, races, gods, etc. But even still it's nothing to whine about, especially if it doesn't really directly effect them much. My players wouldn't really care much if we played FR, so I don't really got much help for ya in how to get them interested.
allenchan 08-05-04, 05:37 PM	I like FR because its a high powered, magic rich environment. I also like the campagin specific feats, PrCs, races, and gods. (so many gods! Oi!)
Derren S. 08-05-04, 05:45 PM	FR and DL aren't "the same thing" they are very different, especially the magic usage. Some people just don't like the FR, including me. But thats mostly because of bad stories about the many munchkin NPCs who supposely wander arround in the FR. One question, when your players all want to play DL, why aren't you playing DL? You don't need the campaign setting, just use the map and organisations. I'm sure one of the DL fans has some books you can read.
TheSilentF 08-05-04, 05:59 PM	I dont DM in DL. If my one of my fellow players (who has the DL book) wants to write a campeign in DL ill gladly play it. D&D is still D&D even if it doesnt take place in greyhawk.
Derren S. 08-05-04, 06:02 PM	Originally posted by TheSilentF I dont DM in DL. Why not? Don't you like it? Don't you know it? Or do you want play in the FR so much that you don't care for other settings? All of this reasons can apply to your players too why they want to play DL.
KittenWarrior 08-05-04, 06:04 PM	I don't like DM-ing much, but when I did, I just never specified the setting.. Most of the time the characters are walking around in a relatively small part of the world anyway, and it doesn't matter whether the big city nearby is called Waterdeep or just Harbor City (as it is in the campaign i'm currently playing in). Personally I enjoy the flavor of the FR deities, but I (and most DMs I know) tend to be liberal about which gods the characters worship. In the current campaign, most characters are sticking to the standard PHB pantheon, but I'm going to worship a goddess from the Asgardian pantheon (from Deities & Demigods), Sif. The other pantheons just do not offer a Power with the same 'fit' with my character that she does.. Cheers, KW
TheSilentF 08-05-04, 06:14 PM	I have no problem with DL. I just dont know anything about it. and i much prefer FR more. Nothing wrong with that. Everyone has a personal preference. I would DM DL if i knew stuff about it and had some money to by the accesories and books.
Derren S. 08-05-04, 06:19 PM	Maybe your players have the same problems as you. When they don't know the FR they either have heared horror stories about elmunchkin and chosen or just know about the realms. If they have knowledge they may have had a bad FR DM hbefore. Why don't you just ask them why they don't like the FR? And if all fails just take the map and the city names of the FR and design your own adventures. (Or when your players don't know anything about the FR tell them that you play a homebrew but play FR instead. But that could result in a big argument and player loss, so beware)
TheSilentF 08-05-04, 06:27 PM	Welll, none of my players know anything about FR. So its not like they have reasons to hate it. So, i dont know whats up. I have tried asking them why they hate it and they always answer the same way. "Whats wrong with regular D&D?" Whats wrong with FR? i ask them. They just kinda tune me out after that. its REALLY annoying.
allenchan 08-05-04, 08:59 PM	When I first started dnd, none of the other new gamers in the group new anything about greyhawk or dragon lance, but almost all of us had played various FR video games (baldur's gate, NWN, etc) so it was something we knwe something about
Qui-Gon Jinn 08-05-04, 09:09 PM	Your "friends" are just being ignorant. It really shouldn't make a difference what planet the setting is, as long as it's in the Prime Material Plane. Mystara (Original D&D), Oerth (Grewhawk), Krynn (Dragonlance), Abeil-Toril (Forgotten Realms), Ningen-Do (Rokugan/Legend of the Five Rings) are all great settings. ;)
Henchcritter 08-05-04, 09:34 PM	My expirience: a good GM can make almost any setting fun. Therefore, the fact whether I like a setting is based on the skill of the GM.
Qui-Gon Jinn 08-05-04, 09:49 PM	Exactly. I liked every setting that I played in. In fact my last DM made up his own world. I don't think he gave a name to the planet, but it didn't matter. He even let play a few classes from Oriental Adventures (this was way before Rokugan/Legend of the Five Rings came out). Eventually, he moved his campaign to Mystara - the Hollow World. When I was DM, I liked having the PC's travel to other planets. That way they got to see different worlds.
Thorak 08-05-04, 10:30 PM	I want to see them bring back Mystara. A world on the inside of the globe, with airships. Nifty. And overall different enough from any other setting to be unique, but not Dark Sun different, where everything was so off the wall different it was almost a new game.
ChaoticGod 08-05-04, 11:18 PM	Originally posted by allenchan I like FR because its a high powered, magic rich environment. I also like the campagin specific feats, PrCs, races, and gods. (so many gods! Oi!) TheSilentF This is exactly why I don't like FR. I am not the only one with this opinion. Magic items fall from the sky and everything from the Regional feats to the races to the spells to the Prcs are just an exercise in escalation to get you to buy the next FR book. You are of course completely intitled to like FR and to buy every book that comes out. Maybe your friends know about FR and maybe they don't, but there definately are reasons not to like it. DL may be the first setting that they played in and they are attached to it. Who knows?
Telemont 08-06-04, 01:11 AM	I think the reason I most dislike the Forgotten Realms is based on how much reading and research I -HAVE- done. Whenever any of a half dozen DM's decides to do a game in the Forgotten Realms, I feel this creeping sense of emptiness and doubt. I am constantly plagued by the notion that even though the DM's allow us to accomplish interesting and useful things in the campaign setting, it's all just a big sham, because supergroup X, Y, and Z surely would have put a hand into influencing the events and the effects shouldn't have had any bigger influence than a ripple in a pond full of great white sharks.
Thorak 08-06-04, 09:48 AM	IMHO, the biggest problem with the FR setting is that there's been too much development, whether in supplements or novels. Not because a DM can't overrule any of it, but because if you've got a fan in the group, he's inevitably going to say things like "That's not right, what about XXX?" Not to mention, the seeming necessity to stick the big-name NPCs into adventures somehow, especially if they're homebrewed ones. Every game I've played in the FR we've somehow encountered, or been affected by, an NPC whose name I recognize, and I'm not a huge fan. Off the top of my head, there's been Elminster, Khelben, and Drizzt. Again, this isn't necessarily a problem, it's the overuse of it that I personally dislike. That's why I like little-used settings, or homebrewed ones. Everythings newer and more suspenseful/exciting because it's fresh and new.
Henchcritter 08-06-04, 10:07 AM	Originally posted by Thorak IMHO, the biggest problem with the FR setting is that there's been too much development, whether in supplements or novels. Not because a DM can't overrule any of it, but because if you've got a fan in the group, he's inevitably going to say things like "That's not right, what about XXX?" I once made a Shadowrun campaign that was in Bulgaria. Why Bulgaria? Because there was nothing written in any Shadowrun book about it. ;)
Phrennzy 08-06-04, 11:53 AM	Welll, none of my players know anything about FR. So its not like they have reasons to hate it. Damnant non quod inteligunt. Or words to that effect. Latin for "They condemn what they do not understand." Knowing nothing about something is perfect reasoning for disliking it. It's human nature to fear the unknown. And as Yoda taught us, Fear leads to Anger, Anger leads to Hate. And, as Mr. Mackey taught us, Hate's bad, m'kay, You shouldn't hate, m'kay? I don't care much for FR myself. I think it is because of the level of 'realism' in the setting. I mean, the Zhentarim and their plan to take over the world through trade is, IMO, boring. I hate Elminster. He's an ass. Drizzt was cool, but then he became super fake. Now he's a joke. BUT - the campaign setting - the cities and countries and such - is fabulous. There is so much material for campaigns, its great. You can set it anywhere. I guess the core question you should ask yourself is "Why do I like FR?" Why do you want to set the campaign there? Is there any reason to call it Forgotten Realms? I mean, set the adventure in someplace other than Waterdeep. Set it in a city along the Sea of Fallen Stars. Or someplace even more obscure, like further north and east - there are totally undefined areas there - well, somewhat undefined. If you run a Forgotten Realms campaign without ever mentioning Drizzt, Elminster, Waterdeep, or the like, the players may not object to it. Or, try typing up a little fact sheet. Give them a brief history of the area you want to set the adventures in. This may go a long way towards alleivating their feelings of hatred. Or, maybe they just really like Dragonlance. If you want to DM there, you don't need all the supplements. All you need to know is the gods, the dragons, the armies, and a map of the place. Simple. Just set your campaign far away from the other DM's. Maybe you could run one on the Minotaur islands or something.
KevvyD 08-06-04, 12:50 PM	I've used Forgotten Realms in the past, but as a source for ideas, NPC's and a bit of flavour. I swear by home-brewed worlds partly because I'm cheap and partly because building the campaign is way over half of the fun of DM'ing. I also think that it makes it easier to tailor the campaign to the temperment of the party. Since I tend to develop mostly from the inside out, starting locally and building out as the party's travels take them, it lets me generate challenges, geography, nations, whatever, that I think that they would be interested in. There is lots of good stuff inside Forgotten Realms (and other worlds) for a DM to gut and mutate. Hell, if you're gaming crowd doesn't want to play Forgotten Realms, just change a few names, make up a few different maps and they won't have to know any different.
MrkGrismer 08-06-04, 03:03 PM	I suspect your players prefer D&D over FR because that is what they know and what they are used to. There's nothing wrong with that. Why not run a FR game but not call it that, how are they going to know? If they ask why you have the books just say you are taking some ideas "here and there" from them.
Arbitrary Aardvark 08-06-04, 04:08 PM	One problem with the default setting is that there is a sad lack of non-human deities, and very few female deities either.
eudas 08-06-04, 06:23 PM	my $0.02: i dislike FR because i associate it with a) immature, teenaged D&D gaming sessions b) elminster c) drizzt d) overpowered, ridiculously out-there wacky :censored: [1] e) the zhentarim etc junk f) basically it's all already done for you, in classic obsessive-trekkie i-must-know-everything-about-this-universe, technical-specifications-for-the-ncc-1701-d style. it's just... i'm not a teenager anymore, and i'd rather not go back to it... eudas [1] edited as recommended
Sphyre 08-06-04, 08:54 PM	I start my first FR setting game online soon. It's nice to not know about the world around me, but also at the same time know that there's a world around me that IS functioning. AS for the setting, it looks like a more high powered high magic campaign. That could be the source of your friend's dislike for it, if they like a more toned down campaign. It sounds like they've made their decision. If they won't change their minds, you may have to find a new group, which I've been forced to do, since I wanted to find a more roleplay oriented game. oh and eudas, It's against the CoC to partially mask profanities. The WizOs suggest you use the :censored: icon instead.
TheSilentF 08-07-04, 07:27 AM	Yeah.... they made there decision, thats why they go and play in a campeign set in FR with my friend. I wasnt invited cause they all know i know way to much about FR. This was basically his campeign. Travel around water deep until you find someone who knows were Elminster is, go to elminster house, and help him save the world. Mine was, your in Hap, you rescue the mayors daughter who ran away and was captured by a band of imps. She becomes an NPC. You travel north to Essembra, do some looting in the local ruins, and return to report a discovered underdark enterance. You then head north to the Moonsea ride, where you head east with the intent on going to Hillsfar. On your way their, you encounter a band of people who have made an illusion of a tree falling down in the middle of the road, and tell you that there is a detour path. You take it, and hallf way through you get ambushed by some thiefs and devils. Torm and Rathan (Members of Knights of Myth Drannor) come to your aid, then leave you. You travel around myth drannor then go up moanders road to hillsfar. Thats all i have done so far, but what im leaning towards is that they find a Zhent merchant wh has ancient writings on a scroll and it says that there will be a huge magical catastrophe, then the drow elves finally decide to invade Hap. Please tell me that is a better idea than my friends, and why my players wouldnt want to do mine better when were equally good at dming.
PepperKids 08-07-04, 11:30 AM	Your question from my understanding is how do you get your friends to play with a setting other than what they believe is "THE D&D SETTING". I have been around a very long time, not as a player as much as a huge roleplaying fan. I think what you are describing is one of the biggest problems with people who are newer to D&D. I think the best way to convince anyone to play in other settings is to read about the history of D&D, AD&D and D&D 3+ editions. You have a lot of ground to stand on when you look at that and see the progression of it as an RPG (one of the first RPG's and I would gamble to call it the original popularised RPG). It was not created to just host a single fantasy world, although the early players were basically a group of guys who wanted rules for their "make believe guys nights out" (I know I am simplifying). D&D has a robust library thanks to all the creative minds and companies out there with supplements that are meant to be used with it. The game has changed again and again, these boards are full of the rule content and debates on changes. Game content though is very interchangeable, and I think this has become in many ways even easier with time. The company owning D&D always has it's favorites, but the game has always been a creative outlet, the newest version's pantheon are just one option of many things out there. I believe if you educate yourself on the creation and history of D&D it may be easier to ease your friends into other worlds and settings. The main reason from what I understand that you will not see Hasbro/WoTC really putting out this kind of supplements anymore is from a company standpoint it is not financially worth it. Don't let a big corporations financial bottom line hurt you or your friends game play and fun.
TheSilentF 08-07-04, 12:10 PM	I know the history, i played 1st for a couple years, then 2nd, then started up third when it came out cause everyone was playing it.
Darth K'Trava 08-08-04, 08:19 PM	There is alot to the FR setting. Much of which I don't know. Some DMs use it because it's a rich setting and some use it for ease of DMing as it's a world already created and they don't have to make their own. I like it because I like their deities better. There's more of them to find likable than the core setting. The majority of info I don't read unless I have to.
TheSilentF 08-08-04, 10:22 PM	Well, i know a lot about FR, cause ive practically read a lot of the supplements, and ive also read a ton of FR books. So if one of my players asks a question about it, i can usually give then a well thought out answer. Not like "Where does Elminster live?" "He lives in some tower in some town in the east" I would say like "He lives in the town of Shadwodale, one of the towns in the Dalelands." So its not like they have no idea whats going on around them. If they have a question they can ask me and i will most likely give them an answer.
Remnant 08-08-04, 10:53 PM	Originally posted by Thorak IMHO, the biggest problem with the FR setting is that there's been too much development, whether in supplements or novels. Not because a DM can't overrule any of it, but because if you've got a fan in the group, he's inevitably going to say things like "That's not right, what about XXX?" Circle gets the square. FR is whatever you make of it right up to the point where it clashes with the preceptions of your players. And even then, some players can handle the change, but all too often, you get the "Nuh-uh!" guy that tells you how it is in your campaign.
KismetRose 08-09-04, 03:02 AM	Hello friend, I started my first campaign in FR, and it's been going, on and off, for over two years now. I let my players know that it was not going to be the FR of the books, since I always reserve the right to change things like stock characters, names, history (you get the idea). The first thing I did was make a city for myself. I found a spot on the map I liked, fit it in with its neighbors, gave it a basic history and voila! I had a unique city in an established setting. I set the characters there. I also had things in mind for the stock NPCs. They've seen Drizzt all right... but he was quite out of his mind with grief at the time. They've seen Bruenor as an aging ruler trying to hold his kingdom together. So far, Qilue is dead and the ghost sister who guarded Shadowdale has dissipated - both of their deaths a mystery. Alustriel was ill for some time, throwing Silverymoon into a panic. (I hate the Seven Sisters and have enjoyed killing them like the pesky flies they are.) I've used the history outlined in the book but I've modified it to suit my own purposes. You don't have to tell your players that they're starting out in the FR. Tell them they're starting out in a city of your own design; give it a unique name and history. Get them into the game and then let the revelation happen when it will. They may regret not being able to use the FR books for their character creation, but hey, they were being pig-headed, weren't they?