Free a town (without magic) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Free a town (without magic) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rurik_Torunn
02-16-04, 04:24 AM Well here's my problem:

We're in a city which has been conquered by an orcish army and want to free it. However we lack a spellcaster, so toasting them all with fireballs or creating illusions is not an option.

Situation:
The city is split up in two parts by a river, each part fortified by a pallisade. The only connection between these parts is a well guarded bridge. Both pallisades seem to have holes however (due to the recent fight), so we can easily get in and out of town at night.

The orcish army:
There are about 20-30 orcs in the western part of the city, and about 200 in the eastern part. Most of which concentrated in one building, which they use as headquaters. Another 200-300 orcs camp in front of the pallisades.

The city guards:
It seems that the mayor has betrayed his people and so has the town's wizard. The captain of the guards is very loyal to the mayor but doesn't seem to be a bad guy. So probably we can convince him to join our efforts if the mayor "somehow" vanishes. We expect about 30 people within the ranks of the town guard.

The resistance:
There's a group of about 30 people willing to fight the orcs, but they are badly equipped, actually some aren't equipped at all and they have some qualms fighting without proper arms and armor. Oh yeah, there's a priest too, but I'm not sure if he can do anything except brewing potions and he's definitively not willing to fight.

The prison:
loacated in the western part and guarded by some orcs. Their commander is said to have a high rank in the orcish army. We hope to find some people in there who are ready to join us, but we don't know for sure wether they will.

The population:
The town counts 500 inhabitants, but only 200 of which considered fit for military service, but there's a shortage of equipment and they don't seem to be willing to fight with normal axes and the like.

The gnoll army:
Our big advantage is, that we know a gnoll army is approaching from the south, but since the orcs are well trained and also seem to be well organized we don't think that this will solve our problem.
EDIT: The gnolls are hostile to both: the town and the orcs

Oh yeah, and we're almost all of good alignment! (Just said this, because I read some very stange suggestion on other threads already)

Thank you for all your help!
Gothic_Demon
02-16-04, 06:37 AM Before I offer some more concrete advice, a few more details please:

What gnolls? How many? What do they want?

Where are you? What level and classes are the party members? How many of you are there?

The only thing I can say for know is that you are probably looking at guerilla warfare.
saankiip
02-16-04, 06:47 AM Just a few immediate thoughts:

1. Use the Gnolls... Either go out and meet with them and make a deal (then double-cross them later), or simply get ready to attack from the inside once the Gnolls attack from the outside.

2. You said something about a Priest making potions. Get lots of them, and maybe some Alchemist Fire, Tanglefoot Bags, and some Thunder Stones and Smoke Sticks... all these are good non-magical sources of attack/defence. (Assuming he, or anyone else, can make them).

3. Take one side of the city first... the less guarded one.

4. Use could start using hit-and-run tatics. Lay low and attack them when they least expect it. Daylight hours will be better, as Orcs dont like bright light.

Thats all I can think of at the moment.

Good Luck!!

SaanKiip
Naeron
02-16-04, 06:47 AM Your best bet without area spells seems to be to to take half the town and hold the fortifications and bridge to stop the orcs retaking it. The first thing that you must do is make sure a message has gone out to any allies to send a relief force, that way you only need to hold out until it arrives.

You haven't stated your level but I would guess its about 3rd-4th so I will work on that.

The holes in the defenses are likely to be repaired before the gnoll forces arrive if they are hostile. If they are allies of the Orcs you are in big trouble anyway and none of the ideas below will probably work. But try and achieve any tasks outside the town before the gaps are closed and then get a hideout inside town.

One option available to you is based on the reason the gnolls are coming. If they are after conquest you don't have much of an option. If they are after the Orcs only you might be able to bargain with them along the lines of "We'll kill the orcs in half the town and hold them off, while they are distracted your attack will go much better (as we will sabotage their defenses as much as we can) and we can ensure they are all wiped out."

As the prison is in the western part and guarded by 20-30 Orcs that seems to be the part of town to concentrate on. Your shortage of equipment seems to be stopping the townspeople signing up to fight the orcs, this is something you should rectify as soon as possible.

There are 4 sources of arms. The first would be from outside the town and smuggled in, anything you can get will help but it may be in very limited numbers. One possibility that strikes me is to pick off some Orc's outside town and make it look like it was down to the Gnolls - take the Orcs equipment and move it into town. If you can crush a couple of ten Orc patrols that should give you enough to fully equip the resistance.

A second source would be the arms of the townsfolk, when the town fell some caches may remain hidden do try and locate them and other weapons would probably have been gathered up by the Orcs, so if you can liberate those arms from where they are being stored that would be a good thing.

Thirdly the Orcs may have an armoury of weapons that you can liberate.

Finally you could arrange for the manufacture of simple weapons and armour but this is unlikely as I guess you won't have time.

The basic tactics would be to get as many weapons as you can and arm the 30 resistance fighters properly. Use these to liberate those in the prison and secure the bridge, a nice thing to attempt would be to trick the Orcs into sending out a strong patrol out into the wilderness - maybe by pointing them towards these hopefully hostile gnolls. A weakend garrison may be less able to respond to your uprising.

Take the weapons and armour from the Orc guards in the prison and equip a melee squad and give any ranged weapons to a ranged weapon squad that can hide behind cover (so are effectively armoured). Javelins for the melee types would be good if you can get them. IF you can hit a couple of Orc patrols and take the prison then by scavenging all the equipment to hand you might be able to get a solid core of about 50 well equipped cmbatants plus any extras can liberate/find.

Then sit tight and hold of the enemy, get noncombatants piling up makeshift walls inside to give a second line of defense. If you have more combatants that weapons one thing you might try is letting the first group of Orcs get past the gate and then seal it, trapping them so that you can kill them and take their equipment. Be pragmatic about things and strip your own dead of their arms and armour as well as the enemy dead.
Rurik_Torunn
02-16-04, 07:08 AM Originally posted by Gothic_Demon
Before I offer some more concrete advice, a few more details please:

What gnolls? How many? What do they want?

Where are you? What level and classes are the party members? How many of you are there?

The only thing I can say for know is that you are probably looking at guerilla warfare.

They live in a near by forest and hate both the orcs and the townsfolk. We don't know how many there are but we expect a number between 400 and 1000. Very vague, but that is all the information we have.

Currently in the western part of the city, in a tavern to more precise.
We are: Druid, Fighter, Rogue (and maybe a Ranger)
All 5-th level. So there seems to be no way to do this on our own. It's rather about convincing the people to fight and offering them a promising tactic.
-) should we take the risk of attacking the prison?
-) should we try to take out some ork-patrols to get their equipment?
-) The orcs are trained, the townsfolk not. What ratio of numbers do we need, if we send them in battle?

Guerilla warfare is not quite what we want, since this would probably cause the orcs to loot the city. We are hoping to take the town back in one strike. This would be possible if we could somehow eliminate their headquaters within the pallisade and close the city gates at the time the gnolls arrive.

-) So the main question is how can we destroy a building (with 200 orcs in it) in a minute? Those outside will be busy with the gnoll's and the remaining 50 (or so) within the walls shouldn't be much of a problem.

Wow, two new posts while typing.

Well: -) The gnolls as said are hostile.
-) Smuggling or crafting arms is not an options for it takes much too long.
-) Said armory is in the headquaters, so basically with 200 orcs guarding it.
-) Can we somehow take the risk to attack the eastern part of the city, or how can we evacuate it? (I'm not sure which of these would be easier)
-) Oh yeah and the next city known to us is 6 days away. So any help would be late.
Gothic_Demon
02-16-04, 09:58 AM If I was DMing, you'd better be a tactical genius...

Anyway, Naeron and saankiip have come up with the answer, you need to take the prison and find the resistance some weapons, before arming the rest of the possible combatants with spears and other long weapons.

Attack the prison with as many of the resistance as are armed and armoured properly. Do it quietly, picking off the Orcs as much as possible in small groups. Do it during the day when they'll be less likely to be outside or watching outside. Once you hold the prison you have a bastion of defence.

As soon as you have the prison take stock. if you have the equipment to get even 100 men armed with spears etc. then consider the next part of the plan. If not, hole up in the prison and wait for the gnolls. Without at least 100 men you aren't going to win.

If you can arm the men, get all the people you can find into the prison. Let them hide there where it is safer. Leave a few trustworthy men to keep an eye on the convicts who won't fight for you.

Take the men across the bridge in a sort of phalanx, spears out. use the phalanx to clear the orcs from the streets. Use the captured orc weaponry as well as the stuff to be found in the prison to arm the resistance and convicts, and then capture or kill the Orcs who are hiding inside the buildings in the other part of the city.

Be warned however, the Orcs may well resort to hit-and-run tactics, ambushes, and the complete and total destruction of that side of the city through fire before they choose to withdraw. Keep in mind that you are not defending the city, you are taking it back, and damage to the buildings are inevitable.

If the Orcs come and form up in the streets the phalanx could be in trouble. At that point you need to attack from another angle with the resistance men. Skirmish, staying beyond the range of the Orcs, try and draw their attention so that the phalanx can do its work.

If you catch the Orcs right you may be able to send them running straight at the Gnolls. If they catch you say goodbye to your phalanx, and then your city. Fight them only on your grounds, on your terms. Retreat is a good option.

PS: All this is pointless if the gnolls are here to take the city. You might be best taking the prison and waiting to see what the gnolls do. Remember that a house can be rebuilt, but a person can't.
Beamup
02-16-04, 10:51 AM Open confrontation is not the only way to win the day!

You said most of the orcs are concentrated in one building. What sort of building is it? Does it have a lot of windows/doors or just a few? (If you don't know, then send the rogue in on a scouting mission to find out!)

If the latter, you could, for example, block the doors (lock them and break the locks - not that tough for even a 5th level Rogue)... then set fire to the place. You should be able to kill a large number of orcs at once, without being seen (if you do it right).

Be creative. Don't assume the only way to win is to brute-force your way through all the orcs in open combat. Think tactically.
Sidious
02-16-04, 06:50 PM I would say that the safest bet is to scout out the location of the gnolls, and time your prison break for the time the gnolls attack. Then you shoud be able to set up a stronghold onone side without much trouble, and perhaps negotiate with the gnolls, or send a messenger (send a raven or something, have the druid explain) and ask for help from a nearby town the Gnolls have gone after. That should buy you time to get weapons and armor made.
heysoos
02-16-04, 06:58 PM Large quantities of alcohol + orc party + fire = dead orcs. Your only problems should be finding the beer, and getting all the orcs in the same place. After that, it's mop-up time. To deal with the gnolls, put the orcs' heads on stakes outside town. That should frighten them sufficiently.
Vanigo
02-17-04, 08:07 PM Uh, last time I checked, a druid was a spellcaster. He won't have any AoE damage spells, but he does have some magic. Most notably, he has entangle. Have you ever seen what entangle does to large groups of weak enemies? When combined with, say, 100 untrained archers and spearthrowers, it's not pretty. The party and any tough members of the resistance can chop down anyone who makes his way out of the area. Best of all, it's a first level spell, so he can cast a lot of them.
He's also got wood shape, suitable for jamming doors and windows, and spike growth. Spike growth is like instant caltrops, but it's guarenteed to hit anything that walks into the area. It's a pretty big area.
Rurik_Torunn
02-18-04, 01:01 PM Originally posted by Vanigo
Uh, last time I checked, a druid was a spellcaster. He won't have any AoE damage spells, but he does have some magic. Most notably, he has entangle. Have you ever seen what entangle does to large groups of weak enemies? When combined with, say, 100 untrained archers and spearthrowers, it's not pretty. The party and any tough members of the resistance can chop down anyone who makes his way out of the area. Best of all, it's a first level spell, so he can cast a lot of them.
He's also got wood shape, suitable for jamming doors and windows, and spike growth. Spike growth is like instant caltrops, but it's guarenteed to hit anything that walks into the area. It's a pretty big area.

Yeap, that's true, but the druid usually only uses heal spells and I don't want to tell the player what spells to prepare. I don't think that any spell of up to 3-rd level can deal with 200 or even more orcs, anyway.

By the way, doesn't entangle only work if there are plants?
Vanigo
02-18-04, 06:03 PM Originally posted by Rurik_Torunn
Yeap, that's true, but the druid usually only uses heal spells and I don't want to tell the player what spells to prepare. I don't think that any spell of up to 3-rd level can deal with 200 or even more orcs, anyway.

By the way, doesn't entangle only work if there are plants? Shows what you know.:D In theory, you could hit up to 172 orcs with a single entangle. That's not too likely, of course, but if the orcs are tightly packed, like they would be in a military formation, a single entangle can easily hit 60-70 orcs. Of course, the orcs may advance in an unruly mob, but that's not all that much better for them. It's a long range spell, too, so you've got time to fire of plenty of them. Either way, spike growth deals 1d4 points of damage for every 5 feet anything moves across the area. The area is in 20 foot squares, so an orc charging across the area will take at least 4d4 points of damage, which is often enough to kill a basic orc outright.
As for getting the orcs onto vegetation? Just assemble a hundred or so armed people outside the city. The orcs, or at least a lot of them, will come.
ridiculous
02-18-04, 07:18 PM Open your bible, dude!

The Ten plagues:

First, collect everyone's sh*t for a while and dump it in the river. (along with rotten corpses of animal and other nasty stuff): 1st plague

The frogs are going to get out of the polluted river and ultimately die : 2nd plague

no frogs= mosquitos, 3rd plague

etc... Read carefully, if you follow the same logic, you'll see the ten plagues follow each other naturally (except for the last one, wich was essentially classic guerilla warfare, from the inside)

It's not magic, but the orcs don't know it... play it Moses' style, dude, it's the way... make a hell of a show (like moses did), the orcs will not like it...
Phist
02-19-04, 07:19 PM That would probably hurt the townspeople more than the orcs. And some of us don't even have bibles.:devil:
No, what I'd suggest is to level the headquarters with explosives.
Find support walls on the exterior. Seal the doors of the building. Place the explosives by any and if possible all exterior support walls. A detonation at those key points will cause an implosion, likely killing everyone inside. Even if it isn't enough to trigger a total colapse, it will still crush large sections of the building. Then the resulting fires will quickly consume the building. If you don't have chemical explosives, try puting a bag of holding inside a portable hole. Just...not if you're nearby.
Beamup
02-19-04, 07:34 PM Alternate form of explosives:

Cast explosive runes on a bunch of scrolls (blank). Stand back. Cast an area Dispel Magic at them. Deliberately fail the caster level check.

BOOM.
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-19-04, 07:43 PM Originally posted by Beamup
Alternate form of explosives:

Cast explosive runes on a bunch of scrolls (blank). Stand back. Cast an area Dispel Magic at them. Deliberately fail the caster level check.

BOOM. You are an evil, evil man....
:devil: :devil:
Beamup
02-19-04, 07:45 PM Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade
You are an evil, evil man....
:devil: :devil:

I wish I could take credit... but I can't. Not honestly, anyway. I got that from one of the other players in my group.
Vanigo
02-19-04, 09:42 PM I don't think you can deliberately fail a caster level check. You can, however, prepare a scroll of dispel magic, caster level 5, and pull out your designated "bad die", which you have kept for just such purposes. (That and AD&D ability checks.)
Beamup
02-19-04, 09:45 PM *shrug*

I was told by somebody who pretty much always knows what he's talking about that you can always voluntarily fail any check. I trust he's right.
Vanigo
02-20-04, 06:06 PM I thought so too, once, but after going through the books again, I didn't see anything other than that you can voluntarily fail saving throws. Either I missed something, which I kinda doubt, or it just sounds so reasonable that people assume it's true.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rurik_Torunn 02-16-04, 04:24 AM	Well here's my problem: We're in a city which has been conquered by an orcish army and want to free it. However we lack a spellcaster, so toasting them all with fireballs or creating illusions is not an option. Situation: The city is split up in two parts by a river, each part fortified by a pallisade. The only connection between these parts is a well guarded bridge. Both pallisades seem to have holes however (due to the recent fight), so we can easily get in and out of town at night. The orcish army: There are about 20-30 orcs in the western part of the city, and about 200 in the eastern part. Most of which concentrated in one building, which they use as headquaters. Another 200-300 orcs camp in front of the pallisades. The city guards: It seems that the mayor has betrayed his people and so has the town's wizard. The captain of the guards is very loyal to the mayor but doesn't seem to be a bad guy. So probably we can convince him to join our efforts if the mayor "somehow" vanishes. We expect about 30 people within the ranks of the town guard. The resistance: There's a group of about 30 people willing to fight the orcs, but they are badly equipped, actually some aren't equipped at all and they have some qualms fighting without proper arms and armor. Oh yeah, there's a priest too, but I'm not sure if he can do anything except brewing potions and he's definitively not willing to fight. The prison: loacated in the western part and guarded by some orcs. Their commander is said to have a high rank in the orcish army. We hope to find some people in there who are ready to join us, but we don't know for sure wether they will. The population: The town counts 500 inhabitants, but only 200 of which considered fit for military service, but there's a shortage of equipment and they don't seem to be willing to fight with normal axes and the like. The gnoll army: Our big advantage is, that we know a gnoll army is approaching from the south, but since the orcs are well trained and also seem to be well organized we don't think that this will solve our problem. EDIT: The gnolls are hostile to both: the town and the orcs Oh yeah, and we're almost all of good alignment! (Just said this, because I read some very stange suggestion on other threads already) Thank you for all your help!
Gothic_Demon 02-16-04, 06:37 AM	Before I offer some more concrete advice, a few more details please: What gnolls? How many? What do they want? Where are you? What level and classes are the party members? How many of you are there? The only thing I can say for know is that you are probably looking at guerilla warfare.
saankiip 02-16-04, 06:47 AM	Just a few immediate thoughts: 1. Use the Gnolls... Either go out and meet with them and make a deal (then double-cross them later), or simply get ready to attack from the inside once the Gnolls attack from the outside. 2. You said something about a Priest making potions. Get lots of them, and maybe some Alchemist Fire, Tanglefoot Bags, and some Thunder Stones and Smoke Sticks... all these are good non-magical sources of attack/defence. (Assuming he, or anyone else, can make them). 3. Take one side of the city first... the less guarded one. 4. Use could start using hit-and-run tatics. Lay low and attack them when they least expect it. Daylight hours will be better, as Orcs dont like bright light. Thats all I can think of at the moment. Good Luck!! SaanKiip
Naeron 02-16-04, 06:47 AM	Your best bet without area spells seems to be to to take half the town and hold the fortifications and bridge to stop the orcs retaking it. The first thing that you must do is make sure a message has gone out to any allies to send a relief force, that way you only need to hold out until it arrives. You haven't stated your level but I would guess its about 3rd-4th so I will work on that. The holes in the defenses are likely to be repaired before the gnoll forces arrive if they are hostile. If they are allies of the Orcs you are in big trouble anyway and none of the ideas below will probably work. But try and achieve any tasks outside the town before the gaps are closed and then get a hideout inside town. One option available to you is based on the reason the gnolls are coming. If they are after conquest you don't have much of an option. If they are after the Orcs only you might be able to bargain with them along the lines of "We'll kill the orcs in half the town and hold them off, while they are distracted your attack will go much better (as we will sabotage their defenses as much as we can) and we can ensure they are all wiped out." As the prison is in the western part and guarded by 20-30 Orcs that seems to be the part of town to concentrate on. Your shortage of equipment seems to be stopping the townspeople signing up to fight the orcs, this is something you should rectify as soon as possible. There are 4 sources of arms. The first would be from outside the town and smuggled in, anything you can get will help but it may be in very limited numbers. One possibility that strikes me is to pick off some Orc's outside town and make it look like it was down to the Gnolls - take the Orcs equipment and move it into town. If you can crush a couple of ten Orc patrols that should give you enough to fully equip the resistance. A second source would be the arms of the townsfolk, when the town fell some caches may remain hidden do try and locate them and other weapons would probably have been gathered up by the Orcs, so if you can liberate those arms from where they are being stored that would be a good thing. Thirdly the Orcs may have an armoury of weapons that you can liberate. Finally you could arrange for the manufacture of simple weapons and armour but this is unlikely as I guess you won't have time. The basic tactics would be to get as many weapons as you can and arm the 30 resistance fighters properly. Use these to liberate those in the prison and secure the bridge, a nice thing to attempt would be to trick the Orcs into sending out a strong patrol out into the wilderness - maybe by pointing them towards these hopefully hostile gnolls. A weakend garrison may be less able to respond to your uprising. Take the weapons and armour from the Orc guards in the prison and equip a melee squad and give any ranged weapons to a ranged weapon squad that can hide behind cover (so are effectively armoured). Javelins for the melee types would be good if you can get them. IF you can hit a couple of Orc patrols and take the prison then by scavenging all the equipment to hand you might be able to get a solid core of about 50 well equipped cmbatants plus any extras can liberate/find. Then sit tight and hold of the enemy, get noncombatants piling up makeshift walls inside to give a second line of defense. If you have more combatants that weapons one thing you might try is letting the first group of Orcs get past the gate and then seal it, trapping them so that you can kill them and take their equipment. Be pragmatic about things and strip your own dead of their arms and armour as well as the enemy dead.
Rurik_Torunn 02-16-04, 07:08 AM	Originally posted by Gothic_Demon Before I offer some more concrete advice, a few more details please: What gnolls? How many? What do they want? Where are you? What level and classes are the party members? How many of you are there? The only thing I can say for know is that you are probably looking at guerilla warfare. They live in a near by forest and hate both the orcs and the townsfolk. We don't know how many there are but we expect a number between 400 and 1000. Very vague, but that is all the information we have. Currently in the western part of the city, in a tavern to more precise. We are: Druid, Fighter, Rogue (and maybe a Ranger) All 5-th level. So there seems to be no way to do this on our own. It's rather about convincing the people to fight and offering them a promising tactic. -) should we take the risk of attacking the prison? -) should we try to take out some ork-patrols to get their equipment? -) The orcs are trained, the townsfolk not. What ratio of numbers do we need, if we send them in battle? Guerilla warfare is not quite what we want, since this would probably cause the orcs to loot the city. We are hoping to take the town back in one strike. This would be possible if we could somehow eliminate their headquaters within the pallisade and close the city gates at the time the gnolls arrive. -) So the main question is how can we destroy a building (with 200 orcs in it) in a minute? Those outside will be busy with the gnoll's and the remaining 50 (or so) within the walls shouldn't be much of a problem. Wow, two new posts while typing. Well: -) The gnolls as said are hostile. -) Smuggling or crafting arms is not an options for it takes much too long. -) Said armory is in the headquaters, so basically with 200 orcs guarding it. -) Can we somehow take the risk to attack the eastern part of the city, or how can we evacuate it? (I'm not sure which of these would be easier) -) Oh yeah and the next city known to us is 6 days away. So any help would be late.
Gothic_Demon 02-16-04, 09:58 AM	If I was DMing, you'd better be a tactical genius... Anyway, Naeron and saankiip have come up with the answer, you need to take the prison and find the resistance some weapons, before arming the rest of the possible combatants with spears and other long weapons. Attack the prison with as many of the resistance as are armed and armoured properly. Do it quietly, picking off the Orcs as much as possible in small groups. Do it during the day when they'll be less likely to be outside or watching outside. Once you hold the prison you have a bastion of defence. As soon as you have the prison take stock. if you have the equipment to get even 100 men armed with spears etc. then consider the next part of the plan. If not, hole up in the prison and wait for the gnolls. Without at least 100 men you aren't going to win. If you can arm the men, get all the people you can find into the prison. Let them hide there where it is safer. Leave a few trustworthy men to keep an eye on the convicts who won't fight for you. Take the men across the bridge in a sort of phalanx, spears out. use the phalanx to clear the orcs from the streets. Use the captured orc weaponry as well as the stuff to be found in the prison to arm the resistance and convicts, and then capture or kill the Orcs who are hiding inside the buildings in the other part of the city. Be warned however, the Orcs may well resort to hit-and-run tactics, ambushes, and the complete and total destruction of that side of the city through fire before they choose to withdraw. Keep in mind that you are not defending the city, you are taking it back, and damage to the buildings are inevitable. If the Orcs come and form up in the streets the phalanx could be in trouble. At that point you need to attack from another angle with the resistance men. Skirmish, staying beyond the range of the Orcs, try and draw their attention so that the phalanx can do its work. If you catch the Orcs right you may be able to send them running straight at the Gnolls. If they catch you say goodbye to your phalanx, and then your city. Fight them only on your grounds, on your terms. Retreat is a good option. PS: All this is pointless if the gnolls are here to take the city. You might be best taking the prison and waiting to see what the gnolls do. Remember that a house can be rebuilt, but a person can't.
Beamup 02-16-04, 10:51 AM	Open confrontation is not the only way to win the day! You said most of the orcs are concentrated in one building. What sort of building is it? Does it have a lot of windows/doors or just a few? (If you don't know, then send the rogue in on a scouting mission to find out!) If the latter, you could, for example, block the doors (lock them and break the locks - not that tough for even a 5th level Rogue)... then set fire to the place. You should be able to kill a large number of orcs at once, without being seen (if you do it right). Be creative. Don't assume the only way to win is to brute-force your way through all the orcs in open combat. Think tactically.
Sidious 02-16-04, 06:50 PM	I would say that the safest bet is to scout out the location of the gnolls, and time your prison break for the time the gnolls attack. Then you shoud be able to set up a stronghold onone side without much trouble, and perhaps negotiate with the gnolls, or send a messenger (send a raven or something, have the druid explain) and ask for help from a nearby town the Gnolls have gone after. That should buy you time to get weapons and armor made.
heysoos 02-16-04, 06:58 PM	Large quantities of alcohol + orc party + fire = dead orcs. Your only problems should be finding the beer, and getting all the orcs in the same place. After that, it's mop-up time. To deal with the gnolls, put the orcs' heads on stakes outside town. That should frighten them sufficiently.
Vanigo 02-17-04, 08:07 PM	Uh, last time I checked, a druid was a spellcaster. He won't have any AoE damage spells, but he does have some magic. Most notably, he has entangle. Have you ever seen what entangle does to large groups of weak enemies? When combined with, say, 100 untrained archers and spearthrowers, it's not pretty. The party and any tough members of the resistance can chop down anyone who makes his way out of the area. Best of all, it's a first level spell, so he can cast a lot of them. He's also got wood shape, suitable for jamming doors and windows, and spike growth. Spike growth is like instant caltrops, but it's guarenteed to hit anything that walks into the area. It's a pretty big area.
Rurik_Torunn 02-18-04, 01:01 PM	Originally posted by Vanigo Uh, last time I checked, a druid was a spellcaster. He won't have any AoE damage spells, but he does have some magic. Most notably, he has entangle. Have you ever seen what entangle does to large groups of weak enemies? When combined with, say, 100 untrained archers and spearthrowers, it's not pretty. The party and any tough members of the resistance can chop down anyone who makes his way out of the area. Best of all, it's a first level spell, so he can cast a lot of them. He's also got wood shape, suitable for jamming doors and windows, and spike growth. Spike growth is like instant caltrops, but it's guarenteed to hit anything that walks into the area. It's a pretty big area. Yeap, that's true, but the druid usually only uses heal spells and I don't want to tell the player what spells to prepare. I don't think that any spell of up to 3-rd level can deal with 200 or even more orcs, anyway. By the way, doesn't entangle only work if there are plants?
Vanigo 02-18-04, 06:03 PM	Originally posted by Rurik_Torunn Yeap, that's true, but the druid usually only uses heal spells and I don't want to tell the player what spells to prepare. I don't think that any spell of up to 3-rd level can deal with 200 or even more orcs, anyway. By the way, doesn't entangle only work if there are plants? Shows what you know.:D In theory, you could hit up to 172 orcs with a single entangle. That's not too likely, of course, but if the orcs are tightly packed, like they would be in a military formation, a single entangle can easily hit 60-70 orcs. Of course, the orcs may advance in an unruly mob, but that's not all that much better for them. It's a long range spell, too, so you've got time to fire of plenty of them. Either way, spike growth deals 1d4 points of damage for every 5 feet anything moves across the area. The area is in 20 foot squares, so an orc charging across the area will take at least 4d4 points of damage, which is often enough to kill a basic orc outright. As for getting the orcs onto vegetation? Just assemble a hundred or so armed people outside the city. The orcs, or at least a lot of them, will come.
ridiculous 02-18-04, 07:18 PM	Open your bible, dude! The Ten plagues: First, collect everyone's sh*t for a while and dump it in the river. (along with rotten corpses of animal and other nasty stuff): 1st plague The frogs are going to get out of the polluted river and ultimately die : 2nd plague no frogs= mosquitos, 3rd plague etc... Read carefully, if you follow the same logic, you'll see the ten plagues follow each other naturally (except for the last one, wich was essentially classic guerilla warfare, from the inside) It's not magic, but the orcs don't know it... play it Moses' style, dude, it's the way... make a hell of a show (like moses did), the orcs will not like it...
Phist 02-19-04, 07:19 PM	That would probably hurt the townspeople more than the orcs. And some of us don't even have bibles.:devil: No, what I'd suggest is to level the headquarters with explosives. Find support walls on the exterior. Seal the doors of the building. Place the explosives by any and if possible all exterior support walls. A detonation at those key points will cause an implosion, likely killing everyone inside. Even if it isn't enough to trigger a total colapse, it will still crush large sections of the building. Then the resulting fires will quickly consume the building. If you don't have chemical explosives, try puting a bag of holding inside a portable hole. Just...not if you're nearby.
Beamup 02-19-04, 07:34 PM	Alternate form of explosives: Cast explosive runes on a bunch of scrolls (blank). Stand back. Cast an area Dispel Magic at them. Deliberately fail the caster level check. BOOM.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-19-04, 07:43 PM	Originally posted by Beamup Alternate form of explosives: Cast explosive runes on a bunch of scrolls (blank). Stand back. Cast an area Dispel Magic at them. Deliberately fail the caster level check. BOOM. You are an evil, evil man.... :devil: :devil:
Beamup 02-19-04, 07:45 PM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade You are an evil, evil man.... :devil: :devil: I wish I could take credit... but I can't. Not honestly, anyway. I got that from one of the other players in my group.
Vanigo 02-19-04, 09:42 PM	I don't think you can deliberately fail a caster level check. You can, however, prepare a scroll of dispel magic, caster level 5, and pull out your designated "bad die", which you have kept for just such purposes. (That and AD&D ability checks.)
Beamup 02-19-04, 09:45 PM	shrug I was told by somebody who pretty much always knows what he's talking about that you can always voluntarily fail any check. I trust he's right.
Vanigo 02-20-04, 06:06 PM	I thought so too, once, but after going through the books again, I didn't see anything other than that you can voluntarily fail saving throws. Either I missed something, which I kinda doubt, or it just sounds so reasonable that people assume it's true.