Friends Character needs Balancing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Friends Character needs Balancing [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Quarter-Dragon
03-30-04, 11:25 AM Not sure if this should go here, but...

A friend of mine is both a DM and a Player in his game. I won't go into the problems with this, but he has a character that's insanely powerful. It's stats are

Tebryn Illistyn: Drow Ftr8/Sor4; CR ???; Medium humanoid (elf); HD 8d10+24 plus 4d4+9; hp 95;Init +4; Spd 30 ft. (60 ft. w/bracelets); AC 26, touch 20, flat-footed 22; Base Atk +10; Grp +13; Atk +20 melee (1d6+8 plus 1d6 cold/15-20 plus 1d10 cold, +5 Icy Burst Defending Mithral Scimitar [named Tanaré]) or +18 melee (1d6+6 plus 1d6 fire plus 2 Con damage/15-20 plus 1d10 fire, +3 Flaming Burst Mithral Scimitar of Greater Wounding [named Sanaré]) or +15 melee (1d4+7/19-20, +2 Returning Distance Dagger [named Rathiae]) or +16 ranged (1d4+7/19-20, +2 Returning Distance Dagger [named Rathiae]) or +20 ranged (1d8+7+1d6 electricity/x3 plus 1d10 electricity, +5 Shocking Burst Longbow [named Antera]); Full Atk +20/+15 melee (Tanaré) and +18/+18/+13 melee (Sanaré) or +15/+10_ melee (Rathiae) or +16 ranged (Rathiae) or +20/+20/+18 ranged (Antera); SA - ; SQ drow spell-like abilities, Darkvision 120 ft., drow traits, SR 23, increased ability scores; AL CG; SV Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +9; Str 16, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 23.
___ Skills and Feats: Bluff +7, Climb +6, Concentration +15, Escape Artist +10, Intimidate +12, Jump +15, Knowledge (arcana) +15, Open Lock +9, Spellcraft +11; Daylight Adaption*, Luck of Heroes****, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw, Weapon Mastery (Scimitar)**, Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Style**, Improved Critical (Scimitar)
___ Sorcerer Spells Known (6/6/3; save DC 16 + spell level): 0-detect magic, ghost sound, light, read magic, ray of frost, flare; 1-magic missile, true strike, ray of enfeeblement; 2-Melf's acid arrow
___ Possessions: Ring of protection +5, Tanaré, Sanaré, Antera, Rathiae, some potions, Staff of Fire, Staff of Healing, Scroll of Summon Monster I, Orb of Storms, Portable Hole (used as a backpack for all his stuff except what he wears and his weapons), Elixir of Fire Breath, Chain of Invisiblity***, Vest of Escape, Warrior's Cloak***, Quiver of Anariel (normal arrows), Bracelets of Speed, Necklace of Adaptation, Wings of Flying, Idiot of Total Chaos
___
___ Increased Ability Scores: Tebryn used tomes and manuals to raise his Str, Dex, Int, and Cha by +3 and his Con by +4

* Tebryn gets this feat for free; he was born on the surface
** A feat I created. They are as follows:
___ Weapon Mastery: Gives +2 on all attack rolls when fighting with two of the chosen weapon
___ Two-Weapon Style: Gives +2 to all 2-Weapon attacks, needs 18 Dex to use
*** New magic items that I created.
___ Chain of Invisibility: Command word activates improved invisibility on wearer for 15 rounds, as the spell. Takes headband slot.
___ Warrior's Cloak: Cloak that powers up depending on how many things you've killed while wearing it. I'll send you the stats later.
___ Bracelets of Speed: Generate a constant haste effect on the wearer
****Luck of Heroes is a FRCS feat that gives +1 to all saves.

Unfortunately this guy is also has some sort of invincible cloak (refer to Warrior's cloak) who's stats all post later.

If anyone wants a challenge, well go for it.

P.S. Don't ask what the Idiot of Total Chaos is, let's just say it's like a Wand of Wonder DM/Player's choice.
SmiloDan
03-30-04, 11:39 AM Um, wow. What kind of swag do the other PCs have? Maybe hit him with a bunch of special arrows that also duplicate the Rod of Cancellation?

How does he use the Staff of Healing? Or does he hold onto it and make the party cleric use it on him?

I hate DMPCs. But that goes without saying.

Is he an ally, a rival, and enemy, or just an annoying DMPC that the DM lives his fantasies through?

Hit him with a bunch of Bestow Curse spells.
Beamup
03-30-04, 12:33 PM Originally posted by Quarter-Dragon
A friend of mine is both a DM and a Player in his game. I won't go into the problems with this, but he has a character that's insanely powerful.

Beat him about the head and shoulders with the DMG until he promises to stop being a jerk.
dauntenightshade
03-30-04, 08:08 PM your DM is a jackarse, plain and simple, he needs to read the DMG before creating another character.
Quarter-Dragon
03-30-04, 09:14 PM I'm not saying how to change in game, but how to fix it, make it playable, balanced.

Impossible right:) Well lets see your ideas and try not to flame the actual DM.

By the way, number one, he came to me for help, number two, I don't actually play with him, and number three, it seemed to me that the entire group of players are slight to major power gamers and I am pretty sure they played at least a little before he had evolved this uber character. Also he has developed a weapon enhancement system that has pretty much allowed all the characters to have almost epic weapons.

Again, I give my luck to whoever wishes to try.:D
Felgraf2
03-30-04, 09:39 PM Ask the DM how the character got access to all of the stat-increasing tomes, as they are very, very, VERY costly items. The character seems to be vastly over-powered item-wise for a level 12 character, especially to have managed to get his mits on so many of those books.
Heron_Marked_Blade
03-30-04, 11:21 PM Antimagic Field. Then he's just a fighter with masterwork scimitars.

Alternatively, you can permanently enchant a candle with antimagic field and place it within a bullseye lantern. Hey presto, instant beholder antimagic eye! That'll balance him real quick...
Bort333
03-30-04, 11:55 PM The DMG should be edited to include -

DMPC'S ARE THE WORLDS MOST STUPIDEST IDEA EVER. DO NOT DO IT. DO NOT DO IT. THIS IS THE #1 RULE FOR DND! NO DMPC!

Its fine having NPC's in the party for a short term... but very stupid to just have an extra PC controlled by the DM.
Felgraf2
03-30-04, 11:59 PM Upon reading the character sheet closer... I also see that not only is it a drow, but it's a dual scimitar wielding drow.

Please don't tell me his alignment is chaotic good. :banghead:

(I'll never, ever understand why it's always Scimitars. Yes, Drizzt is a kind of cool character, but if you're going to play a Drow that Dual wields, USE A DIFFERENT WEAPON. >.<. So many clones.....)
Nom
03-31-04, 05:59 AM Are you asking what the char should be, or how to in-game nerf it? Let's take a look (using 3.5 rules):

Drow = +2 LA, so it's a level 12 / ECL 14 char. However, that fails to consider the multiclass penalties, so it could be a little higher.

Removing stat bonuses: +3 from levels, +3 Str/Dex/Int/Cha tomes, +4 Con tome, +2 Int/Cha/Dex racial, -2 Con racial

Str 13, Dex 15/13, Con 12/14, Int 14/12, Wis 12, Cha 20/18 (15 before levels). So starting char is 32 point buy equivalent (powerful but not excessively so).

Nominal wealth for a 14th level character is 150k gp. A +3 tome has a list value of 82.5k gp, a +4 of 110k gp. So in tomes alone the character has 440k gp or about 3x recommended.

+5 Icy Burst Defending Mitrhral Scimitar: bonus +8 is 128k plus a bit extra for mithral and the scimitar itself.
+3 Flaming Burst Mithral Scimitar of Greater Wounding: bonus +8 again for Wounding (Greater Wounding is 3.0?). And what is it with all this mithral?
+2 Returning Disatance Dagger: bonus merely +4 or 32k.
+5 Shocking Burst Longbow: bonus +7 or 98k.
So, that's 386k gp of weapons.

Add the Ring of Protection +5 (50k) and we're up to 876k gp, which is 116k more than the recommended wealth for a 20th level character! And we haven't even started on the miscellaneous stuff (some of which is very potent).

Feats: Well, the first glaring issue is that the character has been given "daylight adaption" for free, which is rather cheap for a removing a quite nasty racial penalty.

Next, I note the two "custom" feats each give a +2 to-hit bonus. This is twice what weapon focus gives. Further, notice that Two-weapon Style gives this +2 with any TWF, unlike Weapon Focus - one particular weapon type - or Two-weapon Mastery - a chosen weapon combo.

So, the fixes are relatively easy:

(1) Reduce possessions (including tome bonuses) to somewhere in the 150-200k range, as expected for a 14-15 level character.

(2) Remove two-weapon mastery, and use the feat slot for Daylight Adaption.

(3) Reduce the bonus for Two-weapon Style to +1 to-hit bonus, in line with the Weapon Focus. Require Weapon Focus and TWF as pre-reqs (which he satisfies).
Mr.Waesel
03-31-04, 07:13 AM Originally posted by Felgraf2
Upon reading the character sheet closer... I also see that not only is it a drow, but it's a dual scimitar wielding drow.

Please don't tell me his alignment is chaotic good. :banghead:

Indeed. It is sort of funny that the uber DMPC is a drizzt clone.

*and down goes the respect. down! even further down!*

Anyway, do you want a PC that can take him? Or just a different DM? ;)
Thorak
03-31-04, 08:08 AM There is no such thing as a DMPC. There is no such thing as a DM who is also a Player. This isn't the Hair Club for Men. Any character played by the DM is, by definition, an NPC. And if your DM is creating an NPC who's outshining the party, he's not being very nice. Point him at a nice CRPG like Baldur's Gate and let him go nuts; he can have a party and still focus all he wants on his 'special' guy. And not tick his friends off in the process.

And I'm not touching the Drizzt comments with a 10-foot pole. Well, ok. Any DM who's 'really cool character idea they can't wait to play' is the most hackneyed ripoff of the most popular character to copy is an unimaginative twit. How do your games go, does he roll 2 percentile dice, open to that page of the DMG, and make you kill that creature? Ooooh. Thrilling.
pjackson
03-31-04, 08:58 AM Non-epic character with epic wealth - nice target for high level rogues.
Mr.Waesel
03-31-04, 10:05 AM Epic level wealth? Hardly. Except for the cloak, because I don't know its price.
KShaver
03-31-04, 10:39 AM Originally posted by Mr.Waesel
Epic level wealth? Hardly. Except for the cloak, because I don't know its price.

I broke it down as much as I could, don't know what the last couple of items are worth:

50,000 Ring of Protection +5
129,015 Tanare
99,015 Sanare
98,370 Antera
32,302 Rathiae
82,500 +3 str manual
82,500 +3 dex manual
82,500 +3 int manual
82,500 +3 cha manual
110,000 +4 con manual
17,750 Staff of Fire
27,750 Staff of Healing
50 Scroll of Summon Monster I
20,000 Portable Hole
48,000 Orb of Storms
1,100 Elixir of Fire Breath
108,000 Chain of invisibility
5,200 Vest of Escape
9,000 necklace of adaptation
54,000 wings of flying
120,000 Bracelets of speed
28,000 Quiver of Aanariel
? Warriors Cloak
? Some Potions
? Idiot of Total Chaos

Total Cost: 1,287,552+ gp
Kilamar
03-31-04, 10:47 AM Friends Character needs Balancing

Easily done. Erase everything apart from name and race and tell him to start from scratch.

Kilamar
ck2001wendt
03-31-04, 10:52 AM As a DM who also plays a member of the party: I demand satisfaction from all of you!

The reason I play a DMPC is 1) I intend to give up being a DM when I finish my campaign and 2) I want a character that's been with the party when the new DM takes over and 3) I hate making characters above 1st level.

However, my character uses exactly the same character creation rules as everyone else, and all rolls are in front of the screen. The DM in question needs to be the target of some high level rogues or a Deck of Many Things (made up only of Black cards). He took a marginally acceptable practice (DMPC) and used it to make an uber character.

Suggestions:
1. Have the DM introduce a 30th level Wizard that the character has offended in some way. Have the Wizard kidnap and torture him, taking his magical items and using permanent ability drain until he's down to a character of equivalent stats and treasure (when the party frees him, they only find ECL 14 of the characters posessions).
2. House rule feats for a DMPC!?!?!?! NO NO NO. Make the character follow the rules that all the other characters have to follow. No free feats. No house rule feats. Tell him to go back and reselect his feats.
Xavori
03-31-04, 11:45 AM Originally posted by Nom
So, the fixes are relatively easy:

(1) Reduce possessions (including tome bonuses) to somewhere in the 150-200k range, as expected for a 14-15 level character.

(2) Remove two-weapon mastery, and use the feat slot for Daylight Adaption.

(3) Reduce the bonus for Two-weapon Style to +1 to-hit bonus, in line with the Weapon Focus. Require Weapon Focus and TWF as pre-reqs (which he satisfies).

What HE said! *points at Nom excitedly* :88E:
Thorak
03-31-04, 12:04 PM In one of my anti-DMPC comments in another thread, the one viable reason I saw to have one was in cases where you're handing off the DM hat, either within a campaign or at least while maintaining the same group. And even then, should be watched carefully by the players. You seem to be doing a fine job, ck2001wendt.

My solution to the problem; wait till the DMPC falls asleep one night. Then Coup de Grace him. Sure, it's evil. But think of the loot.

And besides, when the DM says something like "Yeah, well, he wakes up just before you pull the knife across his throat, grabs his scimitars and attacks." you can say "Well, I pull out my +18 Blade of Utter Drow-slaying that, when unsheathed, kills all drow within a 200 mile radius. He dies." Then he'll say "You can't do that, that item doesn't exist!" You frantically scribble for a moment on your character sheet, then hand it to him and say "Now it does." Then he'll say "That's cheating!" and you'll say "So are you, you cheating hosebag."

Or whatever else springs to mind. If the DM's cheating, though, and it's ticking you off, start cheating yourself. Especially if it's outrageously bad. He might eventually get the hint.
Mr.Waesel
04-01-04, 05:30 AM KShaver pwned me :(
dantedarkstar
04-01-04, 08:19 AM Originally posted by Quarter-Dragon
Drow Ftr8/Sor4
ECL 14 character, and if neither fighter nor sorcerer is drow favored class, he has -20% exp penalty.

Possessions: Ring of protection +5, Tanaré, Sanaré, Antera, Rathiae, some potions, Staff of Fire, Staff of Healing, Scroll of Summon Monster I, Orb of Storms, Portable Hole (used as a backpack for all his stuff except what he wears and his weapons), Elixir of Fire Breath, Chain of Invisiblity***, Vest of Escape, Warrior's Cloak***, Quiver of Anariel (normal arrows), Bracelets of Speed, Necklace of Adaptation, Wings of Flying, Idiot of Total Chaos
This is the main problem. As pointed before, he has WAY too much wealth.

Tebryn used tomes and manuals to raise his Str, Dex, Int, and Cha by +3 and his Con by +4
And this also totals for horrid cash.

* Tebryn gets this feat for free; he was born on the surface
That's not fair.

Gives +2 on all attack rolls when fighting with two of the chosen weapon
This is strongly overpowered.
Gives +2 to all 2-Weapon attacks, needs 18 Dex to use
This too.

Chain of Invisibility: Command word activates improved invisibility on wearer for 15 rounds, as the spell. Takes headband slot.
Hmm... okkkay ?
Warrior's Cloak: Cloak that powers up depending on how many things you've killed while wearing it. I'll send you the stats later.
I sense bad things. What legions did he slay "in the past" ?
Bracelets of Speed: Generate a constant haste effect on the wearer :eek:

The problems are:
1.Far too much wealth.
2.Some probably unbalanced items (warrior's cloak), and some certainly completely rule-munch type (bracelets of speed).
3.Strongly unbalanced custom feats.

Solution (easy and really unfair in some aspects):
Hit him with DC 30 unnerfed Mordekainen's Disjunction.

Besides, his saves rather suck. Maybe he is macho when plowing through meat, but single wizard with Repulsion and let's say Dominate Person could put an end to his uberness.
KShaver
04-01-04, 10:24 AM Originally posted by Mr.Waesel
KShaver pwned me :(

Sorry, I wasn't trying to, I simply started adding up how much everything was worth. Fortunately for me he didn't seem to use 3rd party materials and a couple of the items were real easy to calculate based on their effects. The SRD doesn't give suggested character wealth either so if it wasn't mentioned earlier I would have had no idea he should only have 150k worth of items when in fact he had nearly 10 times that much.
Mr.Waesel
04-01-04, 10:27 AM Originally posted by KShaver
Sorry, I wasn't trying to, I simply started adding up how much everything was worth. Fortunately for me he didn't seem to use 3rd party materials and a couple of the items were real easy to calculate based on their effects. The SRD doesn't give suggested character wealth either so if it wasn't mentioned earlier I would have had no idea he should only have 150k worth of items when in fact he had nearly 10 times that much.

Aw, come on, I wasn't serious. Gloat already! :D
Vaelan
04-02-04, 02:40 AM Get rid of the character. Barring that, get rid of the extraneous wealth(all of his equipment, since he can't get rid of the tomes) and non-standard Feats(they're too powerful).
JamesDruidDM
04-02-04, 02:26 PM Originally posted by SmiloDan

Hit him with a bunch of Bestow Curse spells.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quarter-Dragon 03-30-04, 11:25 AM	Not sure if this should go here, but... A friend of mine is both a DM and a Player in his game. I won't go into the problems with this, but he has a character that's insanely powerful. It's stats are Tebryn Illistyn: Drow Ftr8/Sor4; CR ???; Medium humanoid (elf); HD 8d10+24 plus 4d4+9; hp 95;Init +4; Spd 30 ft. (60 ft. w/bracelets); AC 26, touch 20, flat-footed 22; Base Atk +10; Grp +13; Atk +20 melee (1d6+8 plus 1d6 cold/15-20 plus 1d10 cold, +5 Icy Burst Defending Mithral Scimitar [named Tanaré]) or +18 melee (1d6+6 plus 1d6 fire plus 2 Con damage/15-20 plus 1d10 fire, +3 Flaming Burst Mithral Scimitar of Greater Wounding [named Sanaré]) or +15 melee (1d4+7/19-20, +2 Returning Distance Dagger [named Rathiae]) or +16 ranged (1d4+7/19-20, +2 Returning Distance Dagger [named Rathiae]) or +20 ranged (1d8+7+1d6 electricity/x3 plus 1d10 electricity, +5 Shocking Burst Longbow [named Antera]); Full Atk +20/+15 melee (Tanaré) and +18/+18/+13 melee (Sanaré) or +15/+10_ melee (Rathiae) or +16 ranged (Rathiae) or +20/+20/+18 ranged (Antera); SA - ; SQ drow spell-like abilities, Darkvision 120 ft., drow traits, SR 23, increased ability scores; AL CG; SV Fort +11, Ref +9, Will +9; Str 16, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 23. ___ Skills and Feats: Bluff +7, Climb +6, Concentration +15, Escape Artist +10, Intimidate +12, Jump +15, Knowledge (arcana) +15, Open Lock +9, Spellcraft +11; Daylight Adaption, Luck of Heroes*, Toughness, Two-Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw, Weapon Mastery (Scimitar), Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Style, Improved Critical (Scimitar) ___ Sorcerer Spells Known (6/6/3; save DC 16 + spell level): 0-detect magic, ghost sound, light, read magic, ray of frost, flare; 1-magic missile, true strike, ray of enfeeblement; 2-Melf's acid arrow ___ Possessions: Ring of protection +5, Tanaré, Sanaré, Antera, Rathiae, some potions, Staff of Fire, Staff of Healing, Scroll of Summon Monster I, Orb of Storms, Portable Hole (used as a backpack for all his stuff except what he wears and his weapons), Elixir of Fire Breath, Chain of Invisiblity, Vest of Escape, Warrior's Cloak*, Quiver of Anariel (normal arrows), Bracelets of Speed, Necklace of Adaptation, Wings of Flying, Idiot of Total Chaos ___ ___ Increased Ability Scores: Tebryn used tomes and manuals to raise his Str, Dex, Int, and Cha by +3 and his Con by +4 Tebryn gets this feat for free; he was born on the surface A feat I created. They are as follows: ___ Weapon Mastery: Gives +2 on all attack rolls when fighting with two of the chosen weapon ___ Two-Weapon Style: Gives +2 to all 2-Weapon attacks, needs 18 Dex to use * New magic items that I created. ___ Chain of Invisibility: Command word activates improved invisibility on wearer for 15 rounds, as the spell. Takes headband slot. ___ Warrior's Cloak: Cloak that powers up depending on how many things you've killed while wearing it. I'll send you the stats later. ___ Bracelets of Speed: Generate a constant haste effect on the wearer ****Luck of Heroes is a FRCS feat that gives +1 to all saves. Unfortunately this guy is also has some sort of invincible cloak (refer to Warrior's cloak) who's stats all post later. If anyone wants a challenge, well go for it. P.S. Don't ask what the Idiot of Total Chaos is, let's just say it's like a Wand of Wonder DM/Player's choice.
SmiloDan 03-30-04, 11:39 AM	Um, wow. What kind of swag do the other PCs have? Maybe hit him with a bunch of special arrows that also duplicate the Rod of Cancellation? How does he use the Staff of Healing? Or does he hold onto it and make the party cleric use it on him? I hate DMPCs. But that goes without saying. Is he an ally, a rival, and enemy, or just an annoying DMPC that the DM lives his fantasies through? Hit him with a bunch of Bestow Curse spells.
Beamup 03-30-04, 12:33 PM	Originally posted by Quarter-Dragon A friend of mine is both a DM and a Player in his game. I won't go into the problems with this, but he has a character that's insanely powerful. Beat him about the head and shoulders with the DMG until he promises to stop being a jerk.
dauntenightshade 03-30-04, 08:08 PM	your DM is a jackarse, plain and simple, he needs to read the DMG before creating another character.
Quarter-Dragon 03-30-04, 09:14 PM	I'm not saying how to change in game, but how to fix it, make it playable, balanced. Impossible right:) Well lets see your ideas and try not to flame the actual DM. By the way, number one, he came to me for help, number two, I don't actually play with him, and number three, it seemed to me that the entire group of players are slight to major power gamers and I am pretty sure they played at least a little before he had evolved this uber character. Also he has developed a weapon enhancement system that has pretty much allowed all the characters to have almost epic weapons. Again, I give my luck to whoever wishes to try.:D
Felgraf2 03-30-04, 09:39 PM	Ask the DM how the character got access to all of the stat-increasing tomes, as they are very, very, VERY costly items. The character seems to be vastly over-powered item-wise for a level 12 character, especially to have managed to get his mits on so many of those books.
Heron_Marked_Blade 03-30-04, 11:21 PM	Antimagic Field. Then he's just a fighter with masterwork scimitars. Alternatively, you can permanently enchant a candle with antimagic field and place it within a bullseye lantern. Hey presto, instant beholder antimagic eye! That'll balance him real quick...
Bort333 03-30-04, 11:55 PM	The DMG should be edited to include - DMPC'S ARE THE WORLDS MOST STUPIDEST IDEA EVER. DO NOT DO IT. DO NOT DO IT. THIS IS THE #1 RULE FOR DND! NO DMPC! Its fine having NPC's in the party for a short term... but very stupid to just have an extra PC controlled by the DM.
Felgraf2 03-30-04, 11:59 PM	Upon reading the character sheet closer... I also see that not only is it a drow, but it's a dual scimitar wielding drow. Please don't tell me his alignment is chaotic good. :banghead: (I'll never, ever understand why it's always Scimitars. Yes, Drizzt is a kind of cool character, but if you're going to play a Drow that Dual wields, USE A DIFFERENT WEAPON. >.<. So many clones.....)
Nom 03-31-04, 05:59 AM	Are you asking what the char should be, or how to in-game nerf it? Let's take a look (using 3.5 rules): Drow = +2 LA, so it's a level 12 / ECL 14 char. However, that fails to consider the multiclass penalties, so it could be a little higher. Removing stat bonuses: +3 from levels, +3 Str/Dex/Int/Cha tomes, +4 Con tome, +2 Int/Cha/Dex racial, -2 Con racial Str 13, Dex 15/13, Con 12/14, Int 14/12, Wis 12, Cha 20/18 (15 before levels). So starting char is 32 point buy equivalent (powerful but not excessively so). Nominal wealth for a 14th level character is 150k gp. A +3 tome has a list value of 82.5k gp, a +4 of 110k gp. So in tomes alone the character has 440k gp or about 3x recommended. +5 Icy Burst Defending Mitrhral Scimitar: bonus +8 is 128k plus a bit extra for mithral and the scimitar itself. +3 Flaming Burst Mithral Scimitar of Greater Wounding: bonus +8 again for Wounding (Greater Wounding is 3.0?). And what is it with all this mithral? +2 Returning Disatance Dagger: bonus merely +4 or 32k. +5 Shocking Burst Longbow: bonus +7 or 98k. So, that's 386k gp of weapons. Add the Ring of Protection +5 (50k) and we're up to 876k gp, which is 116k more than the recommended wealth for a 20th level character! And we haven't even started on the miscellaneous stuff (some of which is very potent). Feats: Well, the first glaring issue is that the character has been given "daylight adaption" for free, which is rather cheap for a removing a quite nasty racial penalty. Next, I note the two "custom" feats each give a +2 to-hit bonus. This is twice what weapon focus gives. Further, notice that Two-weapon Style gives this +2 with any TWF, unlike Weapon Focus - one particular weapon type - or Two-weapon Mastery - a chosen weapon combo. So, the fixes are relatively easy: (1) Reduce possessions (including tome bonuses) to somewhere in the 150-200k range, as expected for a 14-15 level character. (2) Remove two-weapon mastery, and use the feat slot for Daylight Adaption. (3) Reduce the bonus for Two-weapon Style to +1 to-hit bonus, in line with the Weapon Focus. Require Weapon Focus and TWF as pre-reqs (which he satisfies).
Mr.Waesel 03-31-04, 07:13 AM	Originally posted by Felgraf2 Upon reading the character sheet closer... I also see that not only is it a drow, but it's a dual scimitar wielding drow. Please don't tell me his alignment is chaotic good. :banghead: Indeed. It is sort of funny that the uber DMPC is a drizzt clone. and down goes the respect. down! even further down! Anyway, do you want a PC that can take him? Or just a different DM? ;)
Thorak 03-31-04, 08:08 AM	There is no such thing as a DMPC. There is no such thing as a DM who is also a Player. This isn't the Hair Club for Men. Any character played by the DM is, by definition, an NPC. And if your DM is creating an NPC who's outshining the party, he's not being very nice. Point him at a nice CRPG like Baldur's Gate and let him go nuts; he can have a party and still focus all he wants on his 'special' guy. And not tick his friends off in the process. And I'm not touching the Drizzt comments with a 10-foot pole. Well, ok. Any DM who's 'really cool character idea they can't wait to play' is the most hackneyed ripoff of the most popular character to copy is an unimaginative twit. How do your games go, does he roll 2 percentile dice, open to that page of the DMG, and make you kill that creature? Ooooh. Thrilling.
pjackson 03-31-04, 08:58 AM	Non-epic character with epic wealth - nice target for high level rogues.
Mr.Waesel 03-31-04, 10:05 AM	Epic level wealth? Hardly. Except for the cloak, because I don't know its price.
KShaver 03-31-04, 10:39 AM	Originally posted by Mr.Waesel Epic level wealth? Hardly. Except for the cloak, because I don't know its price. I broke it down as much as I could, don't know what the last couple of items are worth: 50,000 Ring of Protection +5 129,015 Tanare 99,015 Sanare 98,370 Antera 32,302 Rathiae 82,500 +3 str manual 82,500 +3 dex manual 82,500 +3 int manual 82,500 +3 cha manual 110,000 +4 con manual 17,750 Staff of Fire 27,750 Staff of Healing 50 Scroll of Summon Monster I 20,000 Portable Hole 48,000 Orb of Storms 1,100 Elixir of Fire Breath 108,000 Chain of invisibility 5,200 Vest of Escape 9,000 necklace of adaptation 54,000 wings of flying 120,000 Bracelets of speed 28,000 Quiver of Aanariel ? Warriors Cloak ? Some Potions ? Idiot of Total Chaos Total Cost: 1,287,552+ gp
Kilamar 03-31-04, 10:47 AM	Friends Character needs Balancing Easily done. Erase everything apart from name and race and tell him to start from scratch. Kilamar
ck2001wendt 03-31-04, 10:52 AM	As a DM who also plays a member of the party: I demand satisfaction from all of you! The reason I play a DMPC is 1) I intend to give up being a DM when I finish my campaign and 2) I want a character that's been with the party when the new DM takes over and 3) I hate making characters above 1st level. However, my character uses exactly the same character creation rules as everyone else, and all rolls are in front of the screen. The DM in question needs to be the target of some high level rogues or a Deck of Many Things (made up only of Black cards). He took a marginally acceptable practice (DMPC) and used it to make an uber character. Suggestions: 1. Have the DM introduce a 30th level Wizard that the character has offended in some way. Have the Wizard kidnap and torture him, taking his magical items and using permanent ability drain until he's down to a character of equivalent stats and treasure (when the party frees him, they only find ECL 14 of the characters posessions). 2. House rule feats for a DMPC!?!?!?! NO NO NO. Make the character follow the rules that all the other characters have to follow. No free feats. No house rule feats. Tell him to go back and reselect his feats.
Xavori 03-31-04, 11:45 AM	Originally posted by Nom So, the fixes are relatively easy: (1) Reduce possessions (including tome bonuses) to somewhere in the 150-200k range, as expected for a 14-15 level character. (2) Remove two-weapon mastery, and use the feat slot for Daylight Adaption. (3) Reduce the bonus for Two-weapon Style to +1 to-hit bonus, in line with the Weapon Focus. Require Weapon Focus and TWF as pre-reqs (which he satisfies). What HE said! points at Nom excitedly :88E:
Thorak 03-31-04, 12:04 PM	In one of my anti-DMPC comments in another thread, the one viable reason I saw to have one was in cases where you're handing off the DM hat, either within a campaign or at least while maintaining the same group. And even then, should be watched carefully by the players. You seem to be doing a fine job, ck2001wendt. My solution to the problem; wait till the DMPC falls asleep one night. Then Coup de Grace him. Sure, it's evil. But think of the loot. And besides, when the DM says something like "Yeah, well, he wakes up just before you pull the knife across his throat, grabs his scimitars and attacks." you can say "Well, I pull out my +18 Blade of Utter Drow-slaying that, when unsheathed, kills all drow within a 200 mile radius. He dies." Then he'll say "You can't do that, that item doesn't exist!" You frantically scribble for a moment on your character sheet, then hand it to him and say "Now it does." Then he'll say "That's cheating!" and you'll say "So are you, you cheating hosebag." Or whatever else springs to mind. If the DM's cheating, though, and it's ticking you off, start cheating yourself. Especially if it's outrageously bad. He might eventually get the hint.
Mr.Waesel 04-01-04, 05:30 AM	KShaver pwned me :(
dantedarkstar 04-01-04, 08:19 AM	Originally posted by Quarter-Dragon Drow Ftr8/Sor4 ECL 14 character, and if neither fighter nor sorcerer is drow favored class, he has -20% exp penalty. Possessions: Ring of protection +5, Tanaré, Sanaré, Antera, Rathiae, some potions, Staff of Fire, Staff of Healing, Scroll of Summon Monster I, Orb of Storms, Portable Hole (used as a backpack for all his stuff except what he wears and his weapons), Elixir of Fire Breath, Chain of Invisiblity*, Vest of Escape, Warrior's Cloak, Quiver of Anariel (normal arrows), Bracelets of Speed, Necklace of Adaptation, Wings of Flying, Idiot of Total Chaos This is the main problem. As pointed before, he has WAY too much wealth. Tebryn used tomes and manuals to raise his Str, Dex, Int, and Cha by +3 and his Con by +4 And this also totals for horrid cash. Tebryn gets this feat for free; he was born on the surface That's not fair. Gives +2 on all attack rolls when fighting with two of the chosen weapon This is strongly overpowered. Gives +2 to all 2-Weapon attacks, needs 18 Dex to use This too. Chain of Invisibility: Command word activates improved invisibility on wearer for 15 rounds, as the spell. Takes headband slot. Hmm... okkkay ? Warrior's Cloak: Cloak that powers up depending on how many things you've killed while wearing it. I'll send you the stats later. I sense bad things. What legions did he slay "in the past" ? Bracelets of Speed: Generate a constant haste effect on the wearer :eek: The problems are: 1.Far too much wealth. 2.Some probably unbalanced items (warrior's cloak), and some certainly completely rule-munch type (bracelets of speed). 3.Strongly unbalanced custom feats. Solution (easy and really unfair in some aspects): Hit him with DC 30 unnerfed Mordekainen's Disjunction. Besides, his saves rather suck. Maybe he is macho when plowing through meat, but single wizard with Repulsion and let's say Dominate Person could put an end to his uberness.
KShaver 04-01-04, 10:24 AM	Originally posted by Mr.Waesel KShaver pwned me :( Sorry, I wasn't trying to, I simply started adding up how much everything was worth. Fortunately for me he didn't seem to use 3rd party materials and a couple of the items were real easy to calculate based on their effects. The SRD doesn't give suggested character wealth either so if it wasn't mentioned earlier I would have had no idea he should only have 150k worth of items when in fact he had nearly 10 times that much.
Mr.Waesel 04-01-04, 10:27 AM	Originally posted by KShaver Sorry, I wasn't trying to, I simply started adding up how much everything was worth. Fortunately for me he didn't seem to use 3rd party materials and a couple of the items were real easy to calculate based on their effects. The SRD doesn't give suggested character wealth either so if it wasn't mentioned earlier I would have had no idea he should only have 150k worth of items when in fact he had nearly 10 times that much. Aw, come on, I wasn't serious. Gloat already! :D
Vaelan 04-02-04, 02:40 AM	Get rid of the character. Barring that, get rid of the extraneous wealth(all of his equipment, since he can't get rid of the tomes) and non-standard Feats(they're too powerful).
JamesDruidDM 04-02-04, 02:26 PM	Originally posted by SmiloDan Hit him with a bunch of Bestow Curse spells.