Frikkin Rogues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Frikkin Rogues [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TinManFan
04-29-06, 09:43 PM Ok. Backstory first. I'm a LN Monk 2/Cleric 1 (Can you say Sacred Fist? I sure can.) of St Cuthy. As traditional for most of my chars in D&D, he's a Skin who wants to smash things. My comanions are 3 rogues. 1 going Warlock/ Rg/ Arcane Trickster Bluff-O-Matic. The next is going the Ultimate Hide/Silent Movement thing and the last is all about political intrigue (Freakin Changling).

When told about the campaign we were supposed to make up characters and not tell our fellow players who was doing what. Given that our group is a tad combat focused most of the time, that's what I thought was gonna happen. I like being a support char in combat so I was thinkin Cleric/ Monk (With a homebrewed feat like the CA ones so a cleric and monk can multiclass and certain thngs stack. I was gonna let Flurry and CL stack and have comperable pre-reqs as the sorc/monk feat)/ Sacred Fist would do nicely. Now with this set up, looks as tho I'm the tank. I have an AC of 15. An attack bonus of +2 (+0 when flurrying) and have been dropped to 0 hps both times we've gamed with these guys. I accepted the fact it'll take a while for this guy to get established as a melee guy, but being forced into it right now is gonna kill him.

Now, for all the marbles. Should I keep this guy or shelf him for another campaign and bring someone else in (Had a cool idea for a 1/2 Elf Bard Dip machine. Think Bene Geserit)?
TinManFan
04-30-06, 08:20 AM Bibbiddy Bobbiddy Bump.... :bump:
My Sister's got a big rump.
I Try to avoid its
Whenever she sits
Because it is just so plump.
Traevanon
04-30-06, 08:50 AM So you are the cleric and the tank? That doesnt work.

Tell them because you are the only healer, you will have to pick at the edges of fights and not lead. Let them flounder around doing nothing until someone else steps up to the plate.

They are perfectly capable of playing the two (three) rogue hustle while you sit back, heal people, wait for the creature to get down to 50% or so, then jump in and put it down.

This party is hideously weak again anything that doesnt have a brain to fool or organs to stab. Plants, undead, contructs, etc. They probably are also weak to things that charm.

I just thought of something. Are the other guys multiclass rogues? Maybe they just dipped into rogue for the skill points. Anyhow the problem might go away at higher levels.
Felyndaer
04-30-06, 11:32 AM Perhaps you could go to a town and inquire about mercenaries?
Y'know, get a little hired help to take care of the frontline combat.
TinManFan
04-30-06, 11:56 AM The hide and sneaker is going swashbuckler/rog for story purposes and the political guy is going into a modified Zenterim Spy.
Wuggadad
04-30-06, 06:27 PM Well, once you get 3rd level in Monk, you just use your superior movement to be at the rear.

Plan on a strategy of run away, lure the bad guys past the rogues, at which point they held move and AoO sneak attack the bad guys.

Remember, someone standing behind a pillar attempting a trip attack has more than 50% cover. Therefore, the trip attempt won't provoke an AoO.

Someone who is running and flat-footed is "uneven footing" in all likelihood versus a trip attack.
Bulletproof_Condom
04-30-06, 07:14 PM Ok. Backstory first. I'm a LN Monk 2/Cleric 1 (Can you say Sacred Fist? I sure can.) of St Cuthy.
I'm sorry, but am I the only person that saw this and thought "Cuthy cuthy, five coppa"?

::shakes head:: Anyway, as a monk, you should know that you can cast magic weapon on your fists because they count as manufactured weapons too. That should help a little. I mean if they're making you act as tank, then they get to miss out on a cure light here and there.
tsuyoshikentsu
05-01-06, 11:31 AM See, here's the deal. If you had gone straight Monk or straight Cleric, you'd be much better off than you are.

However, what I'd do is trust the DM. If he's decent, he'll be able to adjust the game to your rather non-standard party.

If this is still an issue, I don't know what to tell you except "find 3d6."
kelvinaw273
05-01-06, 04:01 PM This is a fine example as to why DMs should apply a bit of control over party composition ...

Seriously, though, you guys need to get your heads together for some serious tactics discussions to minimise your weaknesses (none of you can stand up in melee) and maximise your strengths (three out of four have sneak attacks).
Tristan
05-01-06, 04:18 PM um, get some full plate. Use it until you gain some magic items that can combine with your monk abilities for a decent ac.

also, if you are going to tank...well, I've heard that tanking means going up and being a distraction. Sometimes its meleeing everything to death but...
ok, my point is that use sanctuary in large battles (more than 1 enemy) and also full defense (+6 ac if you have 5 ranks in tumble)

there ya go.

Also, dont forget to tell your idiot friends that Rogues have Use magic device for a reason. Rogues and bards are the best healers next to druids and clerics. If you can keep em alive till you get a (some) wands of CLW then you should be fine.
Cadfan
05-01-06, 04:34 PM Tell the other player's that you're not a tank. Then refuse to perform tanking duties.

Honestly, there's no reason a rogue can't tank as well or better than a cleric/monk combo. I bet they have better armor classes than you do. +3 dex +4 chain shirt = 17.
Andreas0815
05-02-06, 10:08 AM Well, with a party like this i would sneak past most encounters...

Nothin rocks more than to kill the evil wizard in his own lair with all his guards still alive(or undead) and he is just about to prepare spells for this day as 4 people come out of the shadow and backstab/stun him. Then take all his stuff and sneak out again.
TinManFan
05-02-06, 03:52 PM Well, the game has degenerated some anyway. Last night, 2 of the rogues (Bluffmeister and Hidey McShadow) decided to side w/ the bad guys against me and Politico. So now it has degenerated into a 2v2 game. I do not like that so I'm more than likely quitting the game until it's resolved. Giving the DM my sheet, say "Run him as an NPC. I'll be doing lesosn plans. When one side wins, lemme know if I need to make up a new char or not. Bye". Quite upset about all that.

Altho, thank y'all for all the responses. Some great ideas that woulda been kool to implement.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TinManFan 04-29-06, 09:43 PM	Ok. Backstory first. I'm a LN Monk 2/Cleric 1 (Can you say Sacred Fist? I sure can.) of St Cuthy. As traditional for most of my chars in D&D, he's a Skin who wants to smash things. My comanions are 3 rogues. 1 going Warlock/ Rg/ Arcane Trickster Bluff-O-Matic. The next is going the Ultimate Hide/Silent Movement thing and the last is all about political intrigue (Freakin Changling). When told about the campaign we were supposed to make up characters and not tell our fellow players who was doing what. Given that our group is a tad combat focused most of the time, that's what I thought was gonna happen. I like being a support char in combat so I was thinkin Cleric/ Monk (With a homebrewed feat like the CA ones so a cleric and monk can multiclass and certain thngs stack. I was gonna let Flurry and CL stack and have comperable pre-reqs as the sorc/monk feat)/ Sacred Fist would do nicely. Now with this set up, looks as tho I'm the tank. I have an AC of 15. An attack bonus of +2 (+0 when flurrying) and have been dropped to 0 hps both times we've gamed with these guys. I accepted the fact it'll take a while for this guy to get established as a melee guy, but being forced into it right now is gonna kill him. Now, for all the marbles. Should I keep this guy or shelf him for another campaign and bring someone else in (Had a cool idea for a 1/2 Elf Bard Dip machine. Think Bene Geserit)?
TinManFan 04-30-06, 08:20 AM	Bibbiddy Bobbiddy Bump.... :bump: My Sister's got a big rump. I Try to avoid its Whenever she sits Because it is just so plump.
Traevanon 04-30-06, 08:50 AM	So you are the cleric and the tank? That doesnt work. Tell them because you are the only healer, you will have to pick at the edges of fights and not lead. Let them flounder around doing nothing until someone else steps up to the plate. They are perfectly capable of playing the two (three) rogue hustle while you sit back, heal people, wait for the creature to get down to 50% or so, then jump in and put it down. This party is hideously weak again anything that doesnt have a brain to fool or organs to stab. Plants, undead, contructs, etc. They probably are also weak to things that charm. I just thought of something. Are the other guys multiclass rogues? Maybe they just dipped into rogue for the skill points. Anyhow the problem might go away at higher levels.
Felyndaer 04-30-06, 11:32 AM	Perhaps you could go to a town and inquire about mercenaries? Y'know, get a little hired help to take care of the frontline combat.
TinManFan 04-30-06, 11:56 AM	The hide and sneaker is going swashbuckler/rog for story purposes and the political guy is going into a modified Zenterim Spy.
Wuggadad 04-30-06, 06:27 PM	Well, once you get 3rd level in Monk, you just use your superior movement to be at the rear. Plan on a strategy of run away, lure the bad guys past the rogues, at which point they held move and AoO sneak attack the bad guys. Remember, someone standing behind a pillar attempting a trip attack has more than 50% cover. Therefore, the trip attempt won't provoke an AoO. Someone who is running and flat-footed is "uneven footing" in all likelihood versus a trip attack.
Bulletproof_Condom 04-30-06, 07:14 PM	Ok. Backstory first. I'm a LN Monk 2/Cleric 1 (Can you say Sacred Fist? I sure can.) of St Cuthy. I'm sorry, but am I the only person that saw this and thought "Cuthy cuthy, five coppa"? ::shakes head:: Anyway, as a monk, you should know that you can cast magic weapon on your fists because they count as manufactured weapons too. That should help a little. I mean if they're making you act as tank, then they get to miss out on a cure light here and there.
tsuyoshikentsu 05-01-06, 11:31 AM	See, here's the deal. If you had gone straight Monk or straight Cleric, you'd be much better off than you are. However, what I'd do is trust the DM. If he's decent, he'll be able to adjust the game to your rather non-standard party. If this is still an issue, I don't know what to tell you except "find 3d6."
kelvinaw273 05-01-06, 04:01 PM	This is a fine example as to why DMs should apply a bit of control over party composition ... Seriously, though, you guys need to get your heads together for some serious tactics discussions to minimise your weaknesses (none of you can stand up in melee) and maximise your strengths (three out of four have sneak attacks).
Tristan 05-01-06, 04:18 PM	um, get some full plate. Use it until you gain some magic items that can combine with your monk abilities for a decent ac. also, if you are going to tank...well, I've heard that tanking means going up and being a distraction. Sometimes its meleeing everything to death but... ok, my point is that use sanctuary in large battles (more than 1 enemy) and also full defense (+6 ac if you have 5 ranks in tumble) there ya go. Also, dont forget to tell your idiot friends that Rogues have Use magic device for a reason. Rogues and bards are the best healers next to druids and clerics. If you can keep em alive till you get a (some) wands of CLW then you should be fine.
Cadfan 05-01-06, 04:34 PM	Tell the other player's that you're not a tank. Then refuse to perform tanking duties. Honestly, there's no reason a rogue can't tank as well or better than a cleric/monk combo. I bet they have better armor classes than you do. +3 dex +4 chain shirt = 17.
Andreas0815 05-02-06, 10:08 AM	Well, with a party like this i would sneak past most encounters... Nothin rocks more than to kill the evil wizard in his own lair with all his guards still alive(or undead) and he is just about to prepare spells for this day as 4 people come out of the shadow and backstab/stun him. Then take all his stuff and sneak out again.
TinManFan 05-02-06, 03:52 PM	Well, the game has degenerated some anyway. Last night, 2 of the rogues (Bluffmeister and Hidey McShadow) decided to side w/ the bad guys against me and Politico. So now it has degenerated into a 2v2 game. I do not like that so I'm more than likely quitting the game until it's resolved. Giving the DM my sheet, say "Run him as an NPC. I'll be doing lesosn plans. When one side wins, lemme know if I need to make up a new char or not. Bye". Quite upset about all that. Altho, thank y'all for all the responses. Some great ideas that woulda been kool to implement.