Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowsouled 10-22-04, 01:56 PM	Our group consists of 5 PC's, my character is a Dwarven Fighter/Paladin with aspirations of becoming a Dwarven Defender. I have VERY good roles but because of my character concept I have used WIS as a dump stat...a 9. So, as a 5th level PC my will save modifier is 0. I have not missed a single session but now I fear I am falling behind in the party. The entire party was level 4 and 5. My PC was almost 6th and I was dominated. The caster of dominate person (we still don't know who did it) forced my character to "Kill everybody in the ruins as quickly as possible". Suicide Mission. So, my PC died and was raised, we don't have nearly enough money for True Ress yet obviously. So, instead of almost 6th level, I'm back down to 4th. And the rest of the party moved up to 5th-6th before I was raised. So, next session I was able to get up to 5th level and now I am dominated again with the same instructions. There is no presumable way for me to escape this without dying and I'm going to be 4th level again while the party moves up even more. Our wizard does not have sleep prepared and does not know any other spells that would incapacitate me. It really sucks, I'm one of only 2 players to NEVER miss a session and I am falling behind. By the way, Dominate Person has a duration of 1 Day/Level and is a 5th level spell. So, I'm dominated for a minimum of 9 Days!!! Any thoughts on what the heck I can do???
Sir Knight 10-22-04, 02:00 PM	Well, use Ability Increases to raise your Wisdom. Spend a feat on Iron Will. Have your party grapple and knock you out and tie you up. Talk to your DM. Roll a new character. Raise your Charisma (so Paladin's save ability increases). Get potions on Owl's Wisdom (or whatever it is) and/or magic items that increase Wisdom. Talk to your DM. Multiclass into a class with a +2 Wisdom save at 1st level (Cleric is out because you are too low in Wisdom to cast 1st level spells). Talk to your DM. :)
Shadowsouled 10-22-04, 02:10 PM	Yeah, I'm currently a Fighter 4/Paladin 1 so my CHR does not yet effect my saving throws. As far as the grapple thing though, my PC has Combat Reflexes and Close Quarter Fighting, it would get ugly if the group tried to grapple me. I have thought about taking Iron Will and getting a periapt of WIS but for now I'm only a 5th level PC and appear to be doomed. It is a horrible sort of death too. The more I fight, the more I get XP and my character grows and I know he is just toast in the long run anyway. I'd rather a simple Slay Living.
markhaus 10-22-04, 03:03 PM	That stinks, dwarven defender have good willpower. Ironic that your DM keeps preventing you from reaching it and/or the 2nd paladin level. How do you plan on attaining dwarven defender? the requirements are toughness and endurance but it doesnt seem like you have taken either. Is this going to be a recurring problem? avoid dominating creatures till your next pali level I thought dwarves got a bonus to resist spells (+2 i think). I dont think you need iron will... with a wis of 9 is -1 5 fighter levels is +1 2nd paladin level will be +cha bonus, dwarven defender have good will and dwarves have +2 vs. spells. Total of 5+cha modifier by 10th level, that aint bad. (assuming 2 levels DD)
jnrhayz 10-22-04, 03:32 PM	"Kill everybody in the ruins as quickly as possible" I will play the semantic battle here. If that is truly a quote it doesn't specifically say you can't rest when you are weakened. "as possible" could mean you rest when weakened and then continue until it is completed or the duration is done. Now, if he said, "... ruins as quickly as possible without rest" then you would be screwed. Like I said, it is a semantic battle. Whatever the case, it seems as if your DM does not want you to level. Honestly, spells have verbal, somantic components... So they have to be within... 70ft of you so you should get a chance to notice something like that going on. I would talk to the DM and ask if he is just being a jerk. Why is no one else's character being dominated. If it had happened that one time, I would have just chalked it up to experience, but twice right before I hit 6th level? I would be angry. I say talk to the DM and ask for a head's up. While you don't want to ruin the game, having your character dominated and go off killing himself isn't exactly fun. That's also a 9th level wizard, or a 10th level Bard. So at 5th level that is a little overpowered enemy to be facing. At the average party 6th level it is still a challenge.
Super Guy 10-22-04, 05:39 PM	Now you see why I'm paranoid and jack my saves up as high as possible. Cloaks of Protection are your friend. When you can afford it, get a Luck Stone. Or, better yet, see if you can get a mage to craft a lucky piece of equipment that 'helps you to resist the dangers of this world' and maybe he'll make a Lucky Shirt (+1 luck to saves, either 2,000 or 2,500 gold, I forgot). Also, put your next point into Wisdom. And plan with the party- if you get dominated, have them Entangle you while they kill the offender. Bestow Curse for a -6 Reflex save + Entangle/Web or something like that = no movement. Or even Hold Person, what with your bad will save, though Entangle/Web is preferable.
ChaoticGod 10-22-04, 06:26 PM	This hidden 9th+ level spellcaster (and thus the DM ) doesn't want you in those ruins. Go somewhere else for a while. Notice that the Dominate command stated that you 'kill everyone in the ruins'. The command could have easily been 'kill your companions'. To thwart death all the party had to do was exit the ruins while being chased by a dwarf going 2/3 of their speed. Unfortunately for you, and probably your DM, they chose to kill you. Nice friends you got there. Oh, btw, are you remembering your dwarven bonus vs spells and spell-like abilities when calculating your saves?
Gnomish Zombie 10-22-04, 08:25 PM	You have spellcasters lvl 5 and have domination problems??? wtf??? /me casts dominate on ShadowSouled Now sneak up on those spellcasters... and crack open those heads! Then give me their juicy, tasty, de-lec-ta-ble BRAAIINNSS! They don't need it, they don't seem to use it anyways... Spell level 1: Protection from evil. Blocks attempts to exercice mental control and all. Bad news is it lasts only 1 minute per level, and if you are dominated you'll still be dominated at the end of that time. Good news is you thought about that, and brought rope or something. Or do it the hard way with the lvl 0 fighter/barbarian/rogue spell: subdual damage. Think something up, there's a good chap. Also available in circle form at lvl 3 of spellcasting. Which is useful in many ways... Spell level 3 (4 for druids): Dispel magic. Doesn't always work, but better than assured death, no? Every frigging single spellcaster should get this spell ASAP instead of starting playing Mr Hadoken early. Call me a heavy supporter of support magic, but this spell is just too versatile for a decent spellcaster to pass up. Stuff to stop you. Anything that prevents you from acting. Stuff to weaken/slow you down whilst the rest of the group grapples/subdues you. Use daze if you have to. If the only solution weakens you or prevents you from acting, they can use that time/weakness to grapple/subdue you. Hopefully with a few spells you will be less of a problem. By now, those spellcasters of yours should expect this and spare a spell or two to help you. (many of those spells can be useful in other situations as well). Next time should not be too bad. Unless you consider good old family dwarven-subduying time too bad :p and to succeed the save. Try to get that other paladin level soon. And follow the advice of the other dudes
devinmdp 10-22-04, 09:05 PM	First, what is a 9th level caster doing as the foe for a party of 5th level PCs? Second, protection from evil is your friend. It's a very easy spell and most classes get it. Why couldn't it be cast on you to halt your domination? Third, the spellcaster himself is in the ruins. He didn't say to start with the closest person did he? He did say as quickly as possible....but that might still include going after the spellcaster himself. Fourth, don't put Will as your dump stat if you don't like being dominated. Fifth, take the Iron Will feat or get your hands on a cloak of resistance. Sixth, if you are that Will challenged, why can't the party cast hold person on you or any number of other Will-based spells that will neutralize your PC without killing him? Devin
Shadowsouled 10-22-04, 09:24 PM	-First, I do have Toughness and Endurance already so Dwarven Defender is well within reach. -I did remember to calculate my Dwarven +2 but stuff happen. First I rolled a 3. Second time I rolled a 9. Dominate is a minimum DC of 17. And he did try to dominate others but I'm the only PC with a Will Save of +0. -I do not think my DM realizes how close to leveling I am. He doesn't really pay much attention, he's definitely not a jerk. The first time I ended up taking out about 8-9 common soldiers/guards before I was killed. The caster obviously thought it worked out well enough to do it again. -As for the 9th level caster. I don't really think he's a foe. I think we have mutual enemies because he did not make me attack the party and had me killing thugs I would have killed anyway. He just required me to act quickly and without rest. -I never thought about Protection from Evil. It should help NEXT time. I'm a little more concerned with right now though. I am simply hoping to find a way out of it this time. Hopefully I get knocked out without being killed and the party can stabilize me and fix me up. -The party did not kill me, I was crit by one of the major villains and brought from 3 to -13 in one attack, no chance to stabilize. -My party consists of: Fighter 4/Paladin 1 Spirit Shaman 3/Monk 3 Druid 3/ Wilderness Rogue 3 Fighter 5 Wizard 4/ Rogue 1 I feel like I NEED to take Iron Will but I've always felt like that's such a waste of a feat....Obviously not though. As for Dump stat, I kind of needed to. Here are my rolls: STR 18 DEX 13 CON 16 INT 12 WIS 9 CHR 13 I arranged them like that because I need 13 DEX for Dodge (requiremen for DD), wanted a good CHR for Pally and leadership, and good intelligence for role-play reasons. Maybe I should have switched INT and WIS but it's too late now. Any ideas on how to get out of the CURRENT situation?
fatal error 10-22-04, 09:43 PM	Well I would still say your DM is being a jerk, he basically made you die, once, ok that's showing how powerfu lthe NPC is, twice, that's just cruel and sadistic. I mean, he could at least dominate someone else, or have your DM work a free resserction into the adventure.
J.B. 10-23-04, 12:31 AM	Devinmdp has the right idea. "Protection From Evil" is a simple way to suppress the domination long enough for the group to tie you down, heal you up, knock you unconscious (whatever). Also, remember that you get to make a save against the domination, at +2, whenever your character is forced into performing an action that goes against his nature (such as attacking without warrant). MOST IMPORTANTLY, Obviously suicidal actions automatically break the spell (such as being forced to go off, while severly low on HP/spells/resources, to face the BBEG & his minions alone!!).
Yade 10-23-04, 01:41 AM	First, it's never a good idea to use a saving throw stat as a dump stat, especially if it's something you'll be using for one of your classes (ie: Wisdom is important to a Paladin). In this case, sticking the low stat in Intelligence may have been better. Less skill points would hurt you a little bit, but considering you would have quite a few feats and abilities with your character, it may not be too bad. Second, if you owe your DM some money, you should probably pay him back soon. =) Third, don't listen to the others above about "avoiding the command because it wasn't worded just so". That's a really lame tactic, and is often used by very cruel DM's to mess up people's Wish spells and things of that nature. Generally it's good to avoid it, because unless you're a lawyer there's always a way you can get around wording. So if you're playing with a group of real life lawyers, by all means mince words. Otherwise, assume when the DM said "kill all people in the ruins as quickly as possible" that he meant just that. Not "kill all people in the ruins as quickly as possible in whatever order you want while taking rest breaks to regain your strength". That's just silly. Fourth, I agree with the comments above indicating your DM probably doesn't want your group in the ruins. Obviously there's something in there that's more powerful than you can handle, or at least more powerful than your character can deal with. Fifth, has your DM (or you) actually read the Dominate spell? Firstly, a level 9 Wizard casting this spell has to be within 45 feet of your character. The range is 25 feet plus 5 feet every two levels. Furthurmore, anybody can make a Sense Motive check DC 15 to see if your character is acting oddly (including your allies), and if they suspected it, they should have a chance to try and snap you out of it. The spell also says that you get additional saving throws at +2 to resist actions that are against your character's nature (ie: alignment, ethics, etc), and obviously self-destructive orders are NOT carried out, meaning you can't be sent into combat, since that is self-destructive (self-destructive does not mean death - even taking physical damage is self-destruction). Purposefully going into a situation where you will take damage (such as combat) is self-destructive, therefore the dominated person can't do that. Lastly, this spell has a VERBAL requirement. If the caster is within 45 feet of you, you should get a listen check to hear it, unless the caster is using Silent Spell, in which case the caster is at least 11th level and you really need to just not be in those ruins. Sixth, were you standing with your party when you came under effect of the spell? If so, as soon as you had begun to attack them (which I established above that you couldn't have done anyway, but we'll pretend you could), all they needed to do is grapple you and knock you out. So why did they let you go running ahead and get killed by thugs? Unless you had wandered off away from your group already, in which case, have you ever seen horror movies? What's the number one rule...when you split up, somebody ends up dead. Don't split up. Keep the group together. Safety in numbers, man!
Ipsissimus 10-26-04, 08:00 AM	What I can I say, fighters have bad will saves... Your group knowing this has happened more than once should help you since you are a party and you are a paladin. It's not like you're a shady rogue. Have your mage mem a safety spell in case this happens again, like sleep or hold person, etc. Find some equipment that helps you against mind control or boosts your will save. but if anything...you know you're good at what you do at least.
Nom 10-26-04, 08:39 AM	I think you'd have a difficult time arguing that combat is "obviously self destructive" for a fighter, and moreover "fight" is listed as one of the simple commands available. However, suicidal combat is obviously self destructive, so would be automatically refused. Given that the character is a Paladin (and thus LG), massacring non-evil creatures (and especially party members) is probably against his nature and thus would incur a save with a +2 bonus. In terms of detecting the caster, dominate person not only has VS components and Close range, but the casting time is 1 round. You'd not only get a Listen check to detect the casting (unless the caster had Silent Spell), but you've got a round to deal damage to him. If you think you're being unfairly treated, it might be worth having a chat with the DM.