Post/Author/DateTime	Post
aleph_woodenglenn 04-25-05, 11:58 AM	So session before last, my entire party got captured. (Party= Human fighter, Human sorc (my two characters), human LG cleric, half-orc CE cleric (long story)) cutting to the chase: they were forced to help the bad guys find this relic, the (not so much uncooperative as stupid) tank got killed (by the evil cleric who was practically happy about being captured by the bad guys) and his ear cut off. His body was left where it was. His buddy (the sorc) had sworn to repay the fighter for saving his life, but could not in this...and is torn up about it. The remaining members of the party are taken to the dungeon (mine...cave...whatever) so they have to find the relic and bring it back. What they don't know is back at the Fighter's body, the original quest granter is bringing the fighter back to life, no XP penalty (generous patron) reequiping him and teleporting him into the dungeon (the DM actually gave me an option...if the fighter wants to stay dead, she would send help in the form of a newly rolled up character). the sorc would love to kill the half orc, and I suspect would try to do so at the next available time... I imagine they will run across the fighter before the sorcerer has a chance to try (he will fail, he is a level behind the half-orc) to avenge his death. the question is: 1)should the sorc put up with his friend's attempted (though under duress) killer, and then tell the fighter what happened, or just keep his trap shut and his heels cooled until they make it out of the dungeon. 2)If the fighter does find out, he would want to kill the half-orc but then they couldn't finish the quest, would he do it anyway out of anger? see this is why I don't like playing with evil characters. I know it is all a matter of character flavor, but if the humans kill the half-orc, I do not doubt that they will not survive the rest of the dungeon. is this metagaming or would my characters recognize their imperilous need to keep the turncoat alive...suggestions?
Board_Rider 04-25-05, 12:09 PM	What is the alignment of the Sorcerer? Let that be your guide first. Too many times the Players themselves feel slighted when another Players PC kills/robs/betrays his/her PC.If your Sorcerer had a "gut" feeling that this guy was evil why would you hang around with him? Why do you continue to do so? For this quest? You need to establish what your PCs ideals, morals and basically what his identity is. If you don't wanna hang with the half-orc then leave. Then OOG explain to everyone that you will not play with evil PCs. Or handle it in game. What does the LG Cleric think? Is he cool that this Orc killed a fellow party member? That could be your ally. But I agree that, usually, well (and even not so well) played evil PCs can cause quite a problem.
Draco Strang 04-25-05, 01:13 PM	Dammit, BR...you're doing it again. Giving out sound advice before I can step in and bend these people to my wi.....er.....help them. Yes, I meant help them. Aleph, lemme try to bend...er...help some anyway: Since Board Rider gave you good advice for IG concerns, let's look at it out of game. You said you don't like all the dark intrigue and backstabbing that's inherent with evil parties, right? If so, you should really make that known to the DM and the rest of the party. Too often do people think that their character needs to be "different" and "cool" to have fun. Some of the best times I've ever had have been when a band of neutral good BoyScouts and hospital volunteers band together to help the town in need, slay the *obviously* evil bad guy, and then celebrate with milk and cookies at a festival held in their name. So I would say no, don't put up with all the dark evil stuff if you don't want to. It's a game, right? So have fun. If your idea of fun doesn't involve betraying party members and having people die all the time, then by jove, tell the rest of the group that. Being mature gamers like yourself (I hope) they should see that the party should work together, and get along. Hopefully they do that. Or you could beat them at their own game. Turn their asses in to the town watch when you get within city limits. As they're lead up to the gallows, just shrug like the law-abiding do-gooder that you are. Good luck man.
aleph_woodenglenn 04-25-05, 01:32 PM	thats the catch. the two clerics are played by the same person and there is some long involved backstory about the one attempting to redeem/damn the other. so between the two bickering, usually they are more or less neutral (the sorc is CN, fighter TN). the LG cleric is completely taken aback, and isn't quite sure what to do, but there is something in the back story that prevents her from killing the evil one (like it would rend her spirit....leaving her permanently with -2 wisdom or something like that)...anyway, she is mostly afraid of her evil cohort. so this entire excersise has become about RPing... but GEEZ in-game these characters barely know each other. Ooh more backstory, the sorc's life was saved by the fighter...that is how they met. so the sorc felt indebted to him for his life and has been torn up by guilt for failing to save his friend's life (although in all his chaotic spoiledness, he might just say "oh, f+++ it, crap happens") And the Fighter could care less about his life. He killed his lover and his best friend who he caught in infidelity in a fit of passion and has been wandering mostly a ghost of a man anyway. He probably wouldn't be as upset at the orc as the sorc, though the sorc (who has the highest INT in the party) would definitely be smart enough to know: a) the party will die without the fighter b) the party will die without the evil cleric and (perhaps) believe: If the fighter is dead, either the evil cleric should be dead or I should be dead for failing my comrade since we are all dead anyway. ergo: if the fighter is alive, the whole party including myself might survive (at least through the dungeon) but only if we all live? then the question is, will the ambivilent and idiot fighter care enough for his life to disdain the evil cleric, or will he, in death realize the banality of his life and hold the evil cleri in the same ambivilence? Will he have the streak of wisdom to to cool his desire for the evil cleric to die if he learned to prize his life? Will the sorc need to (be able to) convince his comrade that the only way out alive is to forge a rocky alliance with the turncoat? the catch OoG is that I love playing with these guys and I think an evilish campaign is not so bad, I want these characters to really toe the line between Good and Evil with a firm appreciation of what drives both. these characters are certainly no goodie goodies, but have some semblence of loyalty. I don't HATE playing with evil characters, just that it can muss things up in certain situations. They do add a certain amount of flair to any given campaign.
Draco Strang 04-25-05, 02:02 PM	the catch OoG is that I love playing with these guys and I think an evilish campaign is not so bad, I want these characters to really toe the line between Good and Evil with a firm appreciation of what drives both. these characters are certainly no goodie goodies, but have some semblence of loyalty. I don't HATE playing with evil characters, just that it can muss things up in certain situations. They do add a certain amount of flair to any given campaign. You just answered your own question man. It seems that you and your group know what's up, and everything will work out ok. Just play your characters as they should be played, and have fun. Ok....nothing to see here....everyone back to work.
Board_Rider 04-25-05, 02:23 PM	Too often do people think that their character needs to be "different" and "cool" to have fun. Some of the best times I've ever had have been when a band of neutral good BoyScouts and hospital volunteers band together to help the town in need, slay the *obviously* evil bad guy, and then celebrate with milk and cookies at a festival held in their name. "Different" and "cool" is what many try to be in society today. So I think that, naturally, the Players themselves tend to follow suit in game. Natural course and what not. Too be sure the occassional "BoyScout, good, campaign thingy" can be welcomed but some just want to let go and be "evil". It is in this way that a person can exude a different persona that differs with his real life personality. And, this being a fantasy game and all, this should not be discouraged....but it is. Sure, there is a good reason for this (as shown by this example) but in the end, it is a game. Both sides of the fence, being either DM or Player, should strive to make a harmonious game no doubt, but the primary concern is what the game represents. We, as "D&Ders", are usually looked at as weird, geeky or, dare I say it, satantists. It should be a cold day in hell indeed when we begin to turn upon one another...and encourage the turning. Yeah we're all different and the game is something different for each of us. In this case the Player probably wanted to try something different or may wannted to just test the boundaries. Either way the DM allowed this because of backstories and what not. Well this clearly is a made bed and now the DM, nay, the group, must lie in it. In conclusion, I believe we D&Ders should strive for clearer lines of communications. We game because we like too and that should never be forgotten. However with a clear set of pre-established rules, including houserules, we can strive for a smoother gaming experience, more fun and lasting friendships. This is Board Rider saying take care of yourselfs; and each other..... *shakes head and blinks* Whoa...kinda blacked out there what happened?
aleph_woodenglenn 04-25-05, 04:06 PM	*sniff*sniff* I guess I just...you know... had to say it out loud for me to REALLY understand. thanks guys.
Draco Strang 04-25-05, 04:06 PM	"Different" and "cool" is what many try to be in society today. So I think that, naturally, the Players themselves tend to follow suit in game. Natural course and what not. Too be sure the occassional "BoyScout, good, campaign thingy" can be welcomed but some just want to let go and be "evil". It is in this way that a person can exude a different persona that differs with his real life personality. And, this being a fantasy game and all, this should not be discouraged....but it is. Sure, there is a good reason for this (as shown by this example) but in the end, it is a game. Oh, sure man. Everyone wants to be the uber-powerful blackguard baby killer every now and again. No denying it. I've played diabolical, nasty campaigns before, and totally screwing over the guy who sits next to you every day in Calculus can be a whole lot of fun. But, in the case aleph is giving, I interpreted it as the group as a whole had not arrived at a concensus of which way the campaign should go. In conclusion, I believe we D&Ders should strive for clearer lines of communications. We game because we like too and that should never be forgotten. However with a clear set of pre-established rules, including houserules, we can strive for a smoother gaming experience, more fun and lasting friendships. Beautifully said. I might cry....wait.......ok, I'm crying. *shakes head and blinks* Whoa...kinda blacked out there what happened? Beats me......you been taking your lithium?
Board_Rider 04-25-05, 04:13 PM	Beats me......you been taking your lithium? I don't know...these multiple personalities confuse who? Where am us? I you are confused we think.
Ut-Napishtim 04-26-05, 04:11 AM	Revenge is a dish best served cold. You're the intelligent character, bide your time and strike when he is weakened. "Accidentally" slipping him some poison instead of a potion of Cure Light Wounds when he's down would be ideal. If the Fighter decides to louse that up by attacking him sooner then go with it and back him up. I seriously doubt the Half-Orc can take out both of you, and you can repay your debt that way.
weasel fierce 04-26-05, 04:12 AM	Why would the evil character betray the party in the middle of a dungeon ? Evil does not mean retarded
Board_Rider 04-26-05, 12:11 PM	Revenge is a dish best served cold. And with a sprig of garnish so the package is presented in such a way that the consumer is impressed. A nice Chianti is good as well. Might I also reccomend the Veal Picatta?
Draco Strang 04-26-05, 12:15 PM	And with a sprig of garnish so the package is presented in such a way that the consumer is impressed. A nice Chianti is good as well. Might I also reccomend the Veal Picatta? Ah....Board Rider is posting some sarcasm. It must be a slow morning in the BioHazard field? I've had Chianti a few times. Dr. Lecter served it to me with a curious dish he called minced kidneys.
Board_Rider 04-26-05, 01:58 PM	Ah....Board Rider is posting some sarcasm. It must be a slow morning in the BioHazard field? Well Draco buddy like I always say...many listen..... "Everyday it's a-gettin' closer Goin' faster than a roller coaster Love like yours will surely come my way A-hey, a-hey-hey Everyday it's a-gettin' faster Everyone said, go ahead and her A-hey, a-hey-hey Everyday seems a little longer Every way love's a little stronger Come what may" and damn if that don't pick me up!
Draco Strang 04-26-05, 02:29 PM	Well Draco buddy like I always say...many listen..... "Everyday it's a-gettin' closer Goin' faster than a roller coaster Love like yours will surely come my way A-hey, a-hey-hey Everyday it's a-gettin' faster Everyone said, go ahead and her A-hey, a-hey-hey Everyday seems a little longer Every way love's a little stronger Come what may" and damn if that don't pick me up! Well, and damn if I don't know what that is!
DM Denubis 04-26-05, 02:45 PM	Well, There's been a lot of good advice here. I think we should all give Fixxxer a round of applause. ^^
Board_Rider 04-26-05, 03:58 PM	Well, There's been a lot of good advice here. I think we should all give Fixxxer a round of applause. ^^ If by "Fixxxer" you meant "Board Rider" but your keyboard got in the way, well, thanks buddy. If not, then go @!%k yourself! Draco...keep guessing.....
DM Denubis 04-26-05, 04:08 PM	Ah, sorry if I offended. It's a bit of an ongoing joke. See, for some reason, Fixxxer usually gets credit for things he barely, or sometimes not at all, contributes to. So I just threw it in as a laugh.
Board_Rider 04-26-05, 04:13 PM	Ah, sorry if I offended. It's a bit of an ongoing joke. See, for some reason, Fixxxer usually gets credit for things he barely, or sometimes not at all, contributes to. So I just threw it in as a laugh. Oh yeah I know......that was my way of joking too. No offense on me and hopefully towards you. Actually I was thinking of the joke during "Catch Me if You Can" when Tom Hanks tells that Knock,Knock joke. I must burn that pesky Illithid.
Draco Strang 04-26-05, 08:23 PM	Well, There's been a lot of good advice here. I think we should all give Fixxxer a round of applause. ^^ Denubis: My sentiments exactly. *Claps* If by "Fixxxer" you meant "Board Rider" but your keyboard got in the way, well, thanks buddy. If not, then go @!%k yourself! Draco...keep guessing..... No flippin' idea man. I'm more stumped than a post-Paul Bunyan rainforest. And no, he wasn't referring to you......despite your multiple personality disorder, you full well know that you and Fixxxer are not the same guy. :teach: I must burn that pesky Illithid. Yea, where is that palm tree-lovin' mini-van buying hippy squid?
aleph_woodenglenn 04-26-05, 08:42 PM	Why would the evil character betray the party in the middle of a dungeon ? Evil does not mean retardedhate to hijack this thread ;) the evil character and the rest of the party got captured. the captor requested the coup de gras (the fighter was unconscious when he got finished off by the half-orc) as a means for the evil cleric to prove her goodwill to her captors. Now here's the funny part. I doubt the resurrected fighter would be smart enough (or not upset about the whole dying thing enough) not to attack the evil cleric if he finds out she did it. I am fairly sure the sorc would understand this, but not telling his buddy the story of how he died?...hmm...might have to make up some story. and the LG character has a notoriously big mouth...erg I hope the DM set this whole thing up to stretch our roleplaying ability....
Fixxxer 04-26-05, 11:44 PM	Yea, where is that palm tree-lovin' mini-van buying hippy squid? I'm sitting back, basking in the credit due to me for solving the mystery of this thread. :D
Board_Rider 04-26-05, 11:47 PM	I'm sitting back, basking in the credit due to me for solving the mystery of this thread. :D By basking I hope you mean burning your tentacles....
Draco Strang 04-27-05, 01:32 AM	I'm sitting back, basking in the credit due to me for solving the mystery of this thread. :D Fan-freakin 'tastic. Fixxxer and his ego have entered the room. Who turned him onto this thread anyway? Board Rider....you got some 'splainin to do! By basking I hope you mean burning your tentacles.... Dude, get the fire-irons, I'm packing restraints as we speak. P.S.-Why hasn't Dash gotten in on this?