Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Elemental_Elf 12-29-05, 04:59 AM	Due to some weird circumstances, my group of 5 players and 1 DM has been cut to 2 players and a DM. Well, we that remain decided that having multiple characters for each player is kinda klunky and rather time consuming. So to counter this, we decided to implement Gestalt characters. Now I fell in love with the Ranger class in a mini-dungeon we played today, so I really want to continue to use that class. But the question arises as to what class my second class should be? I'm going to focus my Ranger skills on 2 weapon style and stealthiness. My fellow player will prolly use a stealthy Ninja with a Cleric or a Mage combo (dunno which yet). My DM will also be using a Paladin of Honor and something else NPC to help us out. So I really have no clue what my second class should be. I know I don't want to have anything to do with a favored soul or a cleric because I'm bored with those 2 classes. I'm looking for synergy with the Ranger but perhaps with more spells or nifty abilities. :D Alignment wise I was thinking either C/G or C/E (and hide the fact that I am from the rest of teh party, lol). So yeah definately Chaotic but good or evil, I'm still debating. Pretty much any base class is open except for Psions. Thanx for any advice you can render! :D P.S. Any advice you can lend me on how to effectivly play a gesalt character would be very much appreciated. :D
Vedic Cold 12-29-05, 09:49 AM	Have you considered Warlock? With a Chaotic ranger, you could play it off as having your warlock powers granted by fey creatures, and turn him into a forest-loving mystic warrior. Some of the invocations a warlock can learn can really augment a ranger's stealth, having high Dex is important for both classes because both want to remain in light armor, the ranger's better BAB compliments the eldritch blast really well, and you'd be a force to be reckoned with in either melee or at range.
ksbsnowowl 12-29-05, 10:05 AM	Are you looking to go straight Ranger 20/Other Class 20? Are you allowed PrC's? What books do you have? What books are you allowed to use? Any Race, or only the Core Races? Just off the top of my head, this is what I'd do (it slightly changes your ranger flavor, but still provides it): One side is straight Druid 20 The other side is Rogue 2/Ranger 1/Barbarian 2/Fighter 2/Tactical Soldier 1/Some Appropriate Rangery-PrC 10 You could add another Ranger level in there to get TWF, but Wildshape would be more powerful in the end. And don't necessarily take the classes in that order (but take Rogue at first level - insane skill points.) Some good choices for PrC's would include Dread Commando (Heroes of Battle), Nature's Warrior, and Warshaper (both in Complete Warrior) Here are the feats you really want:Craven - (Champions of Ruin) Gives you a bonus to sneak attack damage equal to your character level, meaning at 6th level your sneak attacks do +1d6+6 points of bonus damage. The feat does also impose a -4 penalty to saves vs. fear (we'll deal with that in a moment) Snow Tiger Berserker - (Unapproachable East) Allows you to make a full attack after a charge, so long as you are wielding light weapons. Luckily for you all Natural Attacks are light weapons, meaning you essentially gain the Pounce ability in all your wildshape forms. Neraph Charge - (Planar Handbook) Allows you to charge one opponent each round (though each opponent can only be subjected to this ability once per encounter) and automatically, without fail, deny them their Dex bonus to AC. This means free sneak attack. And with Snow Tiger Berserker it means a full attack of free sneak attack - with a huge damage bonus, thanks to Craven. It requires 5 ranks in Knowledge (the Planes) [and a Wis score of 15, but with your druid casting, that should be taken care of], which means you can't get it before 7th level, unless you dip a level of Bard or Wizard (Wiz might not be a bad idea for the few low-level spells without somatic components, such as True Stike and Feather Fall). In addition to those feats, you may want to look into a feat from Sandstorm (I don't recall its name exactly; Scorpion R...something) that gives you a +4 bonus on saves Vs. fear effects (thus counteracting the drawback of Craven). The only other feat I know of that does so is Battle Hardened from Races of Stone (and in addition it gives you a +2 bonus to initiative), but it doesn't combine well with wildshape, since it is a dwarven racial feat (that presumably you do not qualify for while wildshaped into another creature.) You can now gain a large damage bonus from Sneak Attack fairly easily, both on your own (via Neraph Charge), or with the help of a flanking buddy (which you have via your full-strength animal companion), and flanking has been made easier due to the first level Flanker ability of Tactical Soldier. Also, as I alluded to, your small party is aided in number by the fact that you have a full-strength druid animal companion.
Bob Loblaw 12-29-05, 10:09 AM	Barbarian could be nice. Combining Rage with your Two-Weapon Fighting would make for a dangerous character. Since you are using Unearthed Arcana, the Whirling Frenzy variant of Rage could be fun since you'll get another attack and a bonus to your AC. I would also consider the Boar Totem since you would get Die Hard and an increase in Damage Reduction. If you went Fighter you could get a ton of feats. You would be able to do quite a few nifty things. Rogue would give you sneak attack with all your attacks. Getting a ton of sneak attacks each round is a rogue's wet dream. Plus, you will have almost every skill as a class skill. Scout might be interesting but there will be some cross-over of class abilities.
TalonofTiamat 12-29-05, 10:54 AM	As stated above, Druid might be a nice choice. You get full spellcasting and some sweet abilities. Only problem is the restriction on metal, but you can get around that with dragonhide armor.
DrMorganes 12-29-05, 10:59 AM	I'm going to focus my Ranger skills on 2 weapon style and stealthiness . . . I'm looking for synergy with the Ranger but perhaps with more spells or nifty abilities . . . Alignment wise I was thinking either C/G or C/E (and hide the fact that I am from the rest of teh party, lol). So yeah definately Chaotic but good or evil, I'm still debating.Based on what you've said above, I'd say a Rogue/Ranger gestalt is right up your alley. Both get the most from light armor. TWF as a bonus feat goes well with sneak attacks any way you look at it. When you combine that in a gestalt for full SA progression AND full BAB progression, your PC becomes very dangerous in close combat. Add in a ranger's spells and you can conceivably get SA damage on nearly every attack at least once per day. As far as aligment goes, stick with Good. Mixing good and evil PCs almost never works. It's easier on you, easier on the DM, and easier on your fellow player(s) if you all have at least a common moral worldview (Good) and don't have to worry about PCs betraying one another.
psionichamster 12-29-05, 04:24 PM	convice your DM to let you play a shifter ranger/fighter combo one side, barbarian/monk the other side hear me out. full bab, perfect saves, speed increase, unarmed damage (even when not shifting), and when you get high enough, drop out the monk for weretouched master (basically mini-lycanthrope) you'd be a claw-sprouting, super-sensing, tough-as-nails, hard-to-hit grappler/tripper/climber/runner. in short, Wolverine. or Sabertooth, if you're set on the whole evil thing. if that's not up your alley, perhaps ranger/paladin. again, hear me out. LG elven paladin-ranger of the woods, dropping from the trees and smiting evil doers w/ flurries of TWF strikes again, superb saves (boost Cha a bit), healing, a companion AND a mount (so you can have a better than average ride, as well as some combat punch) of course, you can't possibly go wrong w/ Ranger-Cleric (especially if you take nature, life, animal, plant, or elemental domains) full bab, good ref. save, and good skills, overlaid onto a cleric? who can top that? (well, besides the druid/wizard or the cleric/wizard...or the even weirder sorcerer/wizard) ranger-rogue nets you bad-ass-ery in combat and skills, but weak in spells. (and i love my spells) namaste' the hamster
green_yawgmoth 12-29-05, 04:24 PM	Seconding the rogue bit, since you're going for stealth. SA + TWF is so sick it's funny, especially with full BaB. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Natasha_Starsong 12-29-05, 05:01 PM	Well, you could actually forget the whole ranger thing and go scout-barbarian. It gives you sneakiness, rage, fast movement, great HD, and DR. Basically, it's all a ranger ought to be, without the ranger class.
ksbsnowowl 12-29-05, 05:42 PM	ranger/fighter combo one side, barbarian/monk the other sideUnless he wants to abandon his Chaotic desires, explain an alignment shift mid-campaign, and lose all his barbarian rage abilities, this one isn't going to fly.
Thorak 12-29-05, 07:32 PM	Here's a possibility noone else has mentioned. Druid/Rogue. One gives you all the naturey goodness, the other the stealthiness. This would mean you'd actually need to invest in the TWF feats, but I'd consider that a decent trade for a full-casting, full-power animal companion, sneak attack, etc, combo. The druid/ranger and rogue/ranger combos work, but overlap a bit. With a druid/rogue, there's little to no overlap, and the synergy ends up fairly similar.
stabs 12-29-05, 08:40 PM	If you do go Rogue/Ranger, take favoured enemies that are immune to crits. That way you can make up for a lack of sneak attacking when you come across undead with a small damage bonus.
april151978 12-30-05, 02:58 PM	Here are my :twocents:... if combat is your thing, you can go fighter, rogue, swashbuckler, or barbarian if you want to spice up your stealth/TWF combo, try scout and/or rogue... if you want to really do something different, try sorcerer, warlock, hexblade, or about any other class out there... if your DM allows it, you could use one of the variant classes in Unearthed Arcana and do a whirling frenzy barbarian, or a totem barbarian, a battle sorcerer, etc... Druid would fit as a logical choice too if you stay in the wilderness- wild shapes should enchance either movement or combat beyond TWF... As for PrCs, I would have to know more about where you want to go with this character...
Natasha_Starsong 12-30-05, 04:44 PM	Here's a possibility noone else has mentioned. Druid/Rogue. One gives you all the naturey goodness, the other the stealthiness. This would mean you'd actually need to invest in the TWF feats, but I'd consider that a decent trade for a full-casting, full-power animal companion, sneak attack, etc, combo. The druid/ranger and rogue/ranger combos work, but overlap a bit. With a druid/rogue, there's little to no overlap, and the synergy ends up fairly similar. That's fine, but he wanted a more fighter-y sort of character, and that combo has a big weakness, especially in a gestalt game, for such a fighter - average bab.
RogerWilco 12-30-05, 05:04 PM	I'll second Druid/rogue
Dakron_Tundrick 12-30-05, 05:19 PM	The druid/rouge combo is a good one. I did it once, yes you give up full BAB but SA while in different animal forms can be quite deadly. And if I remember right, you pretty much have every skill as a class skill.
MJ the Prophet 12-30-05, 05:23 PM	I actually have a druid/rogue in my current campaign. With the amazingly good druid spells he's picked up thanks to the Spell Compendium, he's doing very well. And there's always the animal companion to help flank and get that SA going.
Elemental_Elf 12-31-05, 04:51 PM	Thanx for all the help guys/gals! <3! Ok I don't really want to be a Barbarian. Dunno, they just don't fit my style of play. I like tactics other then bash down the door and slaughter all those who live inside. Druid is cool and I really like them BUT can I use Axes? I really want my guy to use a Big axe and a throwing axe/short sword. So I don't think I can be a druid. :weep: I guess I could just use a Scimitar(sp?) and some other Druid weapon... Actually I'm leaning towards Shugenja, Warlock, Sorcerer, Battle Sorcerer, Rogue, Spirit Shaman, Scout, Bard and Fighter. These classes are all interesting and have some interesting spells/abilities. Are any of these good calls? Are any really bad?
Asciiman 12-31-05, 05:00 PM	A druid can use any weapon without penalty that they are proficient with. It says in the PHB and the SRD.
Surgo 12-31-05, 06:22 PM	Ranger/Rogue. Like others said before me, it actually has synergy. The only downside to this is not having a full casting/manifesting class on one side.
ksbsnowowl 12-31-05, 07:29 PM	Ok I don't really want to be a Barbarian. Dunno, they just don't fit my style of play. I like tactics other then bash down the door and slaughter all those who live inside. Barbarians only act that way if you choose to role play it that way. But just because you have a level or two of barb does not make you a savage beast hell-bend on wonton destruction.Druid is cool and I really like them BUT can I use Axes?As others have pointed out, yes, you can use any weapon with a druid. The restriction of Druidic use of other weapons was from 3.0 (and often house-ruled to the 3.5 change even then); now their weapon list is merely their starting proficiencies. They can gain proficiency and freely use any weapon. It is only armors that are restricted amongst druids in 3.5, and even that isn't much of a big deal given all the options for varient materials.
Elemental_Elf 12-31-05, 10:53 PM	Well if I go with Barb./Rogue, I will completly forgo spell casting, which is something I'm not willing to give up. My personal style has always been to be a good all around character. Meaning I like to be good in combat, but perhaps not on par with the Barbarian, while having acess to spells but perhaps not as devoted to magic as a Wizard. Non-Gesalt class wise, the Ranger is one of the best classes to fit my style. It has everything - Spells, Speed, Special Abilities and good martial abilities. So obviously I want to use the Ranger class. Now we must also take into account that the campaign I will in will be semi-stealth oriented. Thus I have to have Move Silently and Hide as class abilities, for with out them I may become inept and useless. Now taking this into account, my choice in the use of the class Ranger also helps aliviate my need for a dedicated stealthy second class. Now I need to decide what my second class should focus on. Should I go with spells or Fighting or Stealth? Or perhaps a balance of the 3? For a Balance I could go with Bard, which would garner some special abilities that will ultimatly help my party succeed. For fighting I could go with Fighter, whcih would give me a Orgy of Feats, but Feats aren't everything. For Stealth I could go with Rogue, which would give me SA's, which compliment ,my Ranger's ability very nicely. Speaking of complimenting, the Scouts Skirmish ability is awesome, so is the extra speed. But seeing as how I have the best BAB and the weapons to back it up, I'd prefer it if I could get some extra spells from my second class. Preferably I would want to get spells that can enhance my abilities as well as attack my foes. So Transmutation and Evocation and possibly Conjuration. Also I despise having to prepare my spells in advance. I don't know why but it's always seemed so hard to choose how many to prepare and what to prepare. I would much rather just have a set list of spells and go with the flow. So with that in mind, my choices are widdled down to Spirit Shamen, Sorcerer, Bard, Battle Sorcerer, Spell Thief, Shungenja, Warmage, Hexblade, Dread Necromancer and that other class from HoH. Now out of those which do you guys think would be the best class to use with my Ranger? Ohh and Thank you all so much for helping me, I really appreciate it! :D :D
ramzafft1 12-31-05, 11:16 PM	But seeing as how I have the best BAB and the weapons to back it up, I'd prefer it if I could get some extra spells from my second class. Preferably I would want to get spells that can enhance my abilities as well as attack my foes. So Transmutation and Evocation and possibly Conjuration. Also I despise having to prepare my spells in advance. I don't know why but it's always seemed so hard to choose how many to prepare and what to prepare. I would much rather just have a set list of spells and go with the flow. So with that in mind, my choices are widdled down to Spirit Shamen, Sorcerer, Bard, Battle Sorcerer, Spell Thief, Shungenja, Warmage, Hexblade, Dread Necromancer and that other class from HoH. Now out of those which do you guys think would be the best class to use with my Ranger? I don't know much about some of them, but make sure you pick a spell casting class that can WEAR ARMOR!!! Otherwise, unless you have an ungodly high dex, you're not much of a melee man. On that note, I reccomend Warmage. It's got the damage-dealing spells you need to break open the enemy lines and charge in a storm of whirling death! Plus, if those pesky enemies try to surround you, you can launch some nifty area emanation spells such as Ring of Blades and Flameburst. Best of all, if you have the warmage spell list your good to go! No memorizing spells or preping in advance! The only ctach to this combo is that concentration quickly becomes your best friend, and you can't really boost your combat abilities, but, after all, isn't that what the cleric's for?
ChimericalWolf 12-31-05, 11:47 PM	Ranger/PsyWar. Average Wis'll take you pretty far in that one.
Elemental_Elf 12-31-05, 11:59 PM	Ranger/PsyWar. Average Wis'll take you pretty far in that one. I don't know if my DM will allow Psions. So let's just go under the assumption that he won't :weep: .