Getting back into DnD - Lots to do! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Getting back into DnD - Lots to do! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Teamshibi
01-11-04, 09:09 PM Well, I have a long history with second edition DnD. I played for about 4 years 3-4 times a week. I had a level 17 theif and a level 15 Blade (bard classkit) as my mains over those years and loved the game dearly. Well, in '98 I moved to Arizona from Florida. Big transition and didnt know where to start so I stopped DnD. Infact I sold most of my books. Now I am getting RPG cravings again and my very rare games of Vampire the Masquerade arent working to satiate my cravings!

I need to get back into the saddle and start getting my new group of friends into some cooky and unfortunate situations through my own mistakes ^_^.

So now I ask this -
What books will I need to start out?
Is forgotten Realms still a great realm to play in?
How are the current rules?
- How are bards now?
- Theives?
With about a hundred or so dollars to spend for the group (I am buying our books... Kinda a gift to the group ^_^) what can I get and what will be left to be desired?

Thanks in advance.
Xychotic
01-11-04, 10:59 PM You'll probably drop your 100 into the core books. FR has never been even close to a good idea for me, so I won't go much further into it. It's setting book covers quite a bit of stuff, and I imagine that you'll want that if you want to continue in that setting.

From there, you might consider picking up a battle mat, because the newest rules embrace tactical combat. Then, you might consider buying minis, but you don't have to.

So, PHB, DMG, MM, FR Setting, Dice. You're good. But that's around $150+.

P.S. Bards are interesting but I never use them. Rogues, the new theives, are very cool.
bard_4_life
01-12-04, 12:18 AM Bards are still the jacks-of-all-trades. In 3.5 they are more focused around sound-orientated magic. Thieves are now called rogues (not rouges), but it's just tomato tomAto, potato potAto. I was never in to 2ed, so I can't really help you other than the classes.
Eldren
01-12-04, 02:50 AM In order, with the caveat of "in my opinion" placed before each answer I offer...

What books will I need to start out?

Get the Core Rulebooks, which are the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual (I, as there are now two Monster Manuals, as well as a Fiend Folio).

Everything else is optional. If all you're going to be is a player, all you really need is the Player's Handbook. However, having a copy of the Dungeon Master's Guide is nice for purchasing magic items and having some other basic rules knowledge that most players appreciate knowing.

Is forgotten Realms still a great realm to play in?

I personally have always been fond of the Forgotten Realms, dating all the way back to 1st Edition. I think that 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms are very fun, although they lean a bit more towards the high-powered side in an edition of the game that some claim already panders to the power gamers. 3rd Edition FR gave us our first taste of a first draft for the Epic rules (which can now be found in the Epic Level Handbook, something that I personally think ought to be Core Rulebook V (I think IV should be the Psionics Handbook)). The world is still well-developed, and there are 3rd Edition stat blocks for most major NPCs (i.e., characters from novels). However, those tend to be spread out amongst several FR supplements. Get the main book, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook, and you should be good. Plus, FR gave us a prestige class that in 3.0 was only in the Realms, but in 3.5 is now a Core prestige class: The Archmage. Well, as well the Red Wizard and Hierophant...

How are the current rules?

This is kind of an open-ended question. I can keep it short by saying that I think the 3rd Edition rules are the best written and most balanced of any edition of Dungeons & Dragons that's ever been published. 3rd Edition underwent a fairly major revision that's being called 3.5 (although some think it might as well have been 4th Edition), and while there are some things from 3.0 that I prefer more, I think that in general 3.5 was still an improvement. If you walk into most gaming stores, the copies of the Core Rulebooks you're going to find on the shelves are going to be 3.5, which is the current edition of the game (and the ruleset officially supported by WotC and assumed in most discussions on these boards that aren't pre-empted by a "this is for 3.0" caveat).

- How are bards now?

Bards are significantly more playable than they were in 2nd Edition, and definitely more playable than they were in 1st Edition. Some inconsistencies with their approach to magic were cleaned up in 3.5, and 3.5 in general fixed most of the problems the class was experiencing in terms of desirability in 3.0. However, they remain the quintessential support class. They aren't what you want to play if you want to have any spotlight.

- Theives?

Now called Rogues, since they aren't all actually thieves any longer. They're the skill-:censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored:s of the game now. They get more skill points to spread around than any other class. You can now have a Rogue who's the "traditional" thief, who steals things, can break into other peoples' locked areas, etc., or you can play a scout-type who doesn't focus as much on picking locks as they do on finding traps and disarming them, or tracking someone through dungeons. There's quite a bit that can be done with Rogues. They have the potential to be the major damage-dealers in the right situations in 3rd Edition, as their Sneak Attack (previously called "Backstab" in the previous two editions) damage is now measured in additional dice, and not just a multiple of the one damage die you roll for your weapon. That damage adds up nicely; at higher levels, when Rogues can make three attacks a round with the "Two-Weapon Fighting" feat, they're dealing +10d6 of Sneak Attack damage per round. +30d6 of damage in a single round is nothing to sneeze at.

With about a hundred or so dollars to spend for the group (I am buying our books... Kinda a gift to the group ^_^) what can I get and what will be left to be desired?

You're going to likely drop $90 on the Core Rulebooks, plus sales tax, unless you find them cheaper (WalMart, if there's one in your area, tends to sell them for about $12 off the cover price of each book).

As for what will be left being desired, that depends on your group. If they want a lot of options for their characters, you're going to want to look into purchasing the "splatbooks", which are class-based accessories with additional spells, feats, and prestige classes. There's Sword & Fist (which is for Fighters and Monks), Tome & Blood (for Wizards and Sorcerors), Defenders of the Faith (for Paladins and Clerics), Song & Silence (for Rogues and Bards), and Masters of the Wild (for Rangers, Barbarians and Druids).

For more options, if you allow psionics (and psionics have changed quite a bit since 2nd Edition), you're going to want to purchase the Psionics Handbook.

For me personally, the true "must have" books outside of the Core Rulebooks are the Epic Level Handbook (for characters above 20th level), the Psionics Handbook, the Book of Vile Darkness (for excellent treatises on evil, and prestige classes and new spells to plague your players with) and the Book of Exalted Deeds (the good counterpart to the BoVD). The latter two books are for Mature Audiences, part of a new line of Mature products from Wizards of the Coast. The Book of Vile Darkness earns its designation as a "mature product". I don't really think the Book of Exalted Deeds does. They're both, however, excellent resources.

If you're going to look into the Forgotten Realms, you're going to want to purchase the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook (a honkin' thick book weighing in at $40 to purchase), Magic of Faerun (tons of spells, magic items, feats, etc. for spellcasters in Faerun, and not just arcane spellcasters; there's plenty in there for divine casters as well), and Faiths & Pantheons, which is a detailed rundown of the Faerunian pantheon of Powers.

Hope this has helped!
Teamshibi
01-12-04, 08:34 AM Wow... Sounds like things have changed for the better! Bards actually being bards? Never in a million years had I thought that'd happen! And although I prefer a traditional theif (all hail Tincan Tinkertoes, the womanzing, drunken gnome theif!) but it sounds like they've been beefed up significantly. That damage looks amazing!

So I should look at PHB, MM, DMG, and then maybe Forgotten Realms book from there? Hrm... I might also pick up the splat book for rogues and bards. Cant resist checking out everything I can on my 2 prefered classes ^_^.

How much freedom does the DM have this time around? I recall when transfering from 1st edition to 2nd the DM was amazed at just how much more he could do. Is it the same here?
Gothic_Demon
01-12-04, 08:58 AM Monsters with class levels (Mind Flayer Wizards are awesome!), templates, prestige classes...

I don't think DMs have ever had it so good!
Teamshibi
01-12-04, 09:06 PM Ah, I have just purchased the PHB, MM1, and DMG. Thanks for all the help thus far.

Whats the largest a party should be with this edition? 5 used to work reasonably well...
Xychotic
01-12-04, 09:46 PM The general advised party is 4 to 6. Less than that and certain skill sets will be missing. More than that, and the DM gets headaches and there isn't enough spotlight to go around.

But, it is my belief that a talented and competent DM can handle up to 8 players.
Eldren
01-13-04, 12:08 AM In terms of the number of members in a party (in other words, the number of players in your group), it's ultimately up to Dungeon Master preference. How many people do you think you can handle and keep the game moving at a reasonable pace while insuring that most everyone is having fun most of the time? That number would then be the "correct" answer to your question.

This being said, the Challenge Rating system that's used in Dungeons & Dragons now to determine XP awards (the rules are in the Dungeon Master's Guide; the Monster Manual doesn't have set XP values for creatures any longer, just a CR) assumes a party of four characters. If there are more, you should lower the CR of any given creature/encounter, and if there are less, you should raise the CR.

Dungeon Masters have about as much freedom as they've ever had, no matter which edition of the game you're playing. You have the ability to change whatever rules you don't like, implement rules you like that the Core Rulebooks didn't mention, etc. You can approve or disapprove of any given prestige class, spell, character class, class ability, etc., at your whim, and you're ultimately the final arbiter of everything in the game. Obviously you have to keep in mind the desires of your players, but for the most part, DMs have no more or less power than they've had in previous editions.

The Dungeon Master's Guide presents some great tips on running games, on how to keep them "balanced", how to insure that a wide variety of role playing styles are encountered, etc. The 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, which is probably the one you purchased (does it have a big blue world on the front, or a lock?), also incorporates some material from previously-published 3.0 books, such as bits of material from the Epic Level Handbook and the Manual of the Planes. It also makes Core some prestige classes which previously appeared in non-Core 3.0 supplements (for instance, the Dragon Disciple originally appeared in the book for Wizards and Sorcerors, "Tome & Blood", and the Archmage originally appeared in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook).

Enjoy getting into 3rd Edition! It's an exciting time. Feel free to PM me if you've got any questions; I love talking with people new to 3rd Edition, and I generally try to keep most of my rampant editorializing to a minimum. ;)
Teamshibi
01-13-04, 01:22 AM Yes, thanks for all the help!

So far we are working out the innerworkings of our group as we speak. Char sheets will be this weekend but concept should always come first. Numbers are a trivial side note compared to personality and background and such.

For me, I am off to start on the background of my Satyr bard. I will post some moer questions as they come ^_^

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Teamshibi 01-11-04, 09:09 PM	Well, I have a long history with second edition DnD. I played for about 4 years 3-4 times a week. I had a level 17 theif and a level 15 Blade (bard classkit) as my mains over those years and loved the game dearly. Well, in '98 I moved to Arizona from Florida. Big transition and didnt know where to start so I stopped DnD. Infact I sold most of my books. Now I am getting RPG cravings again and my very rare games of Vampire the Masquerade arent working to satiate my cravings! I need to get back into the saddle and start getting my new group of friends into some cooky and unfortunate situations through my own mistakes ^_^. So now I ask this - What books will I need to start out? Is forgotten Realms still a great realm to play in? How are the current rules? - How are bards now? - Theives? With about a hundred or so dollars to spend for the group (I am buying our books... Kinda a gift to the group ^_^) what can I get and what will be left to be desired? Thanks in advance.
Xychotic 01-11-04, 10:59 PM	You'll probably drop your 100 into the core books. FR has never been even close to a good idea for me, so I won't go much further into it. It's setting book covers quite a bit of stuff, and I imagine that you'll want that if you want to continue in that setting. From there, you might consider picking up a battle mat, because the newest rules embrace tactical combat. Then, you might consider buying minis, but you don't have to. So, PHB, DMG, MM, FR Setting, Dice. You're good. But that's around $150+. P.S. Bards are interesting but I never use them. Rogues, the new theives, are very cool.
bard_4_life 01-12-04, 12:18 AM	Bards are still the jacks-of-all-trades. In 3.5 they are more focused around sound-orientated magic. Thieves are now called rogues (not rouges), but it's just tomato tomAto, potato potAto. I was never in to 2ed, so I can't really help you other than the classes.
Eldren 01-12-04, 02:50 AM	In order, with the caveat of "in my opinion" placed before each answer I offer... What books will I need to start out? Get the Core Rulebooks, which are the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual (I, as there are now two Monster Manuals, as well as a Fiend Folio). Everything else is optional. If all you're going to be is a player, all you really need is the Player's Handbook. However, having a copy of the Dungeon Master's Guide is nice for purchasing magic items and having some other basic rules knowledge that most players appreciate knowing. Is forgotten Realms still a great realm to play in? I personally have always been fond of the Forgotten Realms, dating all the way back to 1st Edition. I think that 3rd Edition Forgotten Realms are very fun, although they lean a bit more towards the high-powered side in an edition of the game that some claim already panders to the power gamers. 3rd Edition FR gave us our first taste of a first draft for the Epic rules (which can now be found in the Epic Level Handbook, something that I personally think ought to be Core Rulebook V (I think IV should be the Psionics Handbook)). The world is still well-developed, and there are 3rd Edition stat blocks for most major NPCs (i.e., characters from novels). However, those tend to be spread out amongst several FR supplements. Get the main book, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook, and you should be good. Plus, FR gave us a prestige class that in 3.0 was only in the Realms, but in 3.5 is now a Core prestige class: The Archmage. Well, as well the Red Wizard and Hierophant... How are the current rules? This is kind of an open-ended question. I can keep it short by saying that I think the 3rd Edition rules are the best written and most balanced of any edition of Dungeons & Dragons that's ever been published. 3rd Edition underwent a fairly major revision that's being called 3.5 (although some think it might as well have been 4th Edition), and while there are some things from 3.0 that I prefer more, I think that in general 3.5 was still an improvement. If you walk into most gaming stores, the copies of the Core Rulebooks you're going to find on the shelves are going to be 3.5, which is the current edition of the game (and the ruleset officially supported by WotC and assumed in most discussions on these boards that aren't pre-empted by a "this is for 3.0" caveat). - How are bards now? Bards are significantly more playable than they were in 2nd Edition, and definitely more playable than they were in 1st Edition. Some inconsistencies with their approach to magic were cleaned up in 3.5, and 3.5 in general fixed most of the problems the class was experiencing in terms of desirability in 3.0. However, they remain the quintessential support class. They aren't what you want to play if you want to have any spotlight. - Theives? Now called Rogues, since they aren't all actually thieves any longer. They're the skill-:censored::censored::censored::censored: :censored:s of the game now. They get more skill points to spread around than any other class. You can now have a Rogue who's the "traditional" thief, who steals things, can break into other peoples' locked areas, etc., or you can play a scout-type who doesn't focus as much on picking locks as they do on finding traps and disarming them, or tracking someone through dungeons. There's quite a bit that can be done with Rogues. They have the potential to be the major damage-dealers in the right situations in 3rd Edition, as their Sneak Attack (previously called "Backstab" in the previous two editions) damage is now measured in additional dice, and not just a multiple of the one damage die you roll for your weapon. That damage adds up nicely; at higher levels, when Rogues can make three attacks a round with the "Two-Weapon Fighting" feat, they're dealing +10d6 of Sneak Attack damage per round. +30d6 of damage in a single round is nothing to sneeze at. With about a hundred or so dollars to spend for the group (I am buying our books... Kinda a gift to the group ^_^) what can I get and what will be left to be desired? You're going to likely drop $90 on the Core Rulebooks, plus sales tax, unless you find them cheaper (WalMart, if there's one in your area, tends to sell them for about $12 off the cover price of each book). As for what will be left being desired, that depends on your group. If they want a lot of options for their characters, you're going to want to look into purchasing the "splatbooks", which are class-based accessories with additional spells, feats, and prestige classes. There's Sword & Fist (which is for Fighters and Monks), Tome & Blood (for Wizards and Sorcerors), Defenders of the Faith (for Paladins and Clerics), Song & Silence (for Rogues and Bards), and Masters of the Wild (for Rangers, Barbarians and Druids). For more options, if you allow psionics (and psionics have changed quite a bit since 2nd Edition), you're going to want to purchase the Psionics Handbook. For me personally, the true "must have" books outside of the Core Rulebooks are the Epic Level Handbook (for characters above 20th level), the Psionics Handbook, the Book of Vile Darkness (for excellent treatises on evil, and prestige classes and new spells to plague your players with) and the Book of Exalted Deeds (the good counterpart to the BoVD). The latter two books are for Mature Audiences, part of a new line of Mature products from Wizards of the Coast. The Book of Vile Darkness earns its designation as a "mature product". I don't really think the Book of Exalted Deeds does. They're both, however, excellent resources. If you're going to look into the Forgotten Realms, you're going to want to purchase the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook (a honkin' thick book weighing in at $40 to purchase), Magic of Faerun (tons of spells, magic items, feats, etc. for spellcasters in Faerun, and not just arcane spellcasters; there's plenty in there for divine casters as well), and Faiths & Pantheons, which is a detailed rundown of the Faerunian pantheon of Powers. Hope this has helped!
Teamshibi 01-12-04, 08:34 AM	Wow... Sounds like things have changed for the better! Bards actually being bards? Never in a million years had I thought that'd happen! And although I prefer a traditional theif (all hail Tincan Tinkertoes, the womanzing, drunken gnome theif!) but it sounds like they've been beefed up significantly. That damage looks amazing! So I should look at PHB, MM, DMG, and then maybe Forgotten Realms book from there? Hrm... I might also pick up the splat book for rogues and bards. Cant resist checking out everything I can on my 2 prefered classes ^_^. How much freedom does the DM have this time around? I recall when transfering from 1st edition to 2nd the DM was amazed at just how much more he could do. Is it the same here?
Gothic_Demon 01-12-04, 08:58 AM	Monsters with class levels (Mind Flayer Wizards are awesome!), templates, prestige classes... I don't think DMs have ever had it so good!
Teamshibi 01-12-04, 09:06 PM	Ah, I have just purchased the PHB, MM1, and DMG. Thanks for all the help thus far. Whats the largest a party should be with this edition? 5 used to work reasonably well...
Xychotic 01-12-04, 09:46 PM	The general advised party is 4 to 6. Less than that and certain skill sets will be missing. More than that, and the DM gets headaches and there isn't enough spotlight to go around. But, it is my belief that a talented and competent DM can handle up to 8 players.
Eldren 01-13-04, 12:08 AM	In terms of the number of members in a party (in other words, the number of players in your group), it's ultimately up to Dungeon Master preference. How many people do you think you can handle and keep the game moving at a reasonable pace while insuring that most everyone is having fun most of the time? That number would then be the "correct" answer to your question. This being said, the Challenge Rating system that's used in Dungeons & Dragons now to determine XP awards (the rules are in the Dungeon Master's Guide; the Monster Manual doesn't have set XP values for creatures any longer, just a CR) assumes a party of four characters. If there are more, you should lower the CR of any given creature/encounter, and if there are less, you should raise the CR. Dungeon Masters have about as much freedom as they've ever had, no matter which edition of the game you're playing. You have the ability to change whatever rules you don't like, implement rules you like that the Core Rulebooks didn't mention, etc. You can approve or disapprove of any given prestige class, spell, character class, class ability, etc., at your whim, and you're ultimately the final arbiter of everything in the game. Obviously you have to keep in mind the desires of your players, but for the most part, DMs have no more or less power than they've had in previous editions. The Dungeon Master's Guide presents some great tips on running games, on how to keep them "balanced", how to insure that a wide variety of role playing styles are encountered, etc. The 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide, which is probably the one you purchased (does it have a big blue world on the front, or a lock?), also incorporates some material from previously-published 3.0 books, such as bits of material from the Epic Level Handbook and the Manual of the Planes. It also makes Core some prestige classes which previously appeared in non-Core 3.0 supplements (for instance, the Dragon Disciple originally appeared in the book for Wizards and Sorcerors, "Tome & Blood", and the Archmage originally appeared in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook). Enjoy getting into 3rd Edition! It's an exciting time. Feel free to PM me if you've got any questions; I love talking with people new to 3rd Edition, and I generally try to keep most of my rampant editorializing to a minimum. ;)
Teamshibi 01-13-04, 01:22 AM	Yes, thanks for all the help! So far we are working out the innerworkings of our group as we speak. Char sheets will be this weekend but concept should always come first. Numbers are a trivial side note compared to personality and background and such. For me, I am off to start on the background of my Satyr bard. I will post some moer questions as they come ^_^