Getting the most out of a level-adjusted character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Getting the most out of a level-adjusted character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tumbling_chameleon
02-23-07, 02:24 AM I'm about to draw up a new character, and I'm interested in playing a Half-Nymph or Half-Celestial. I was wondering what the best classes would be for these, considering the level adjustments that both have.
draco1119
02-23-07, 03:27 AM Barbarian or Fighter/Paladin/Ranger. Remember that the Favored class is by base creature. If you're starting off at level 5, you're pretty well screwed. If you're starting at level 10, you're set. :) I'm playing a Half-Dragon Human in one of my campaigns. See if your DM will let you buy off at least a little bit of the LA at level 12 for a LA +4 (there are rules for that in Unearthed Arcana).
Yokomohoyo
02-23-07, 04:53 AM If your making a level +10 game then make a Half Dragon/Troll Monk or Barbarian and make sure its a half black or half red dragon, then all you have to worry about is getting a ring of X element immunity for the other half hahahahaha...

You'll have a +9 Natural armor class, health regen of +5, 6d8 racial hit die (which get bumped up to d10's due to half dragon), wings with a 120 flight due to size, 1d6 claw attacks, 1d8 bite attack, range of 10', breath weapon of 6d8, +20str, +4 Dexterity, +14 con, -2 int, -2 wis, -2cha
bob_the_great
02-23-07, 01:04 PM I've been tossing around the idea of a half-celestial monk. with their moderate bonuses to every score you're best going with a class that suffers from MAD rather than classes which focus on one or two good scores. With their wings you're looking to avoid medium and heavy armor. maybe a half-celestial bard could be a fun and versatile (and maybe a little weak) character. Scouts typically only do only 1 attack a round anyway so the loss of bab (delaying your access to extra attacks) might not hurt so much.

the annoying thing is that light armor, fewer hit dice, and flying just scream "archery" to me while a +2 dex, four levels of lost bab, and fewer feats makes that less attractive. maybe others more intelligent than I can think of better uses of half-celestials, but they're a race that while they'll always intrigue me I'll likely never play one.
Zoycitenega
02-23-07, 01:45 PM Warmage for either; You get all the best spells by 10th level, with Scorching Ray at 4th dealing serious damage. As a celestial and a half-nymph you up or Charisma and, I believe, your Intelligence.
Comus
02-23-07, 02:23 PM Okay. Here are the basics:

1 : Don't play anything with LA unless you have a compelling reason. Think to yourself "Are these stat bonuses really better than what I'd get for X levels of a class?" A +4 to strength might look as good as +2 BAB, but remember that it slows down when you get additional attacks.

2 : If you're still going to use something with LA... NEVER EVER PLAY A FULL CASTER. Delaying access to spells by even a single level can make a caster feel useless. Being able to cast Magic Missile is good. Having Magic Missile as your best spell at level 5 is not good.

3 : Keep the LA as low as possible. Don't stack templates. It destroys your HP base, your BAB goes to ****, and you lose access to class abilities.

4 : Play a fighting class. Some builds can make use of skills, but you'll be pretty far behind on the number of ranks you can take. With a fighting class, you can at least hit things.

5 : Expect to be the weakest party member. WotC subtly discourages using nonstandard races by making them nearly always a bad choice.
Nathreet
02-23-07, 06:13 PM I recently compiled a list of playable races. Yeah, most suck. But here are some good ones:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie
Pixies are LA 4 but with ridiculously good niceties to counterbalance. Pixie rogues rock.

PIXIE ROGUE BUILD
Magic long bow, 24/7 greater invis. SRD only.
ECL = rogue level + 4 (pixie = LA 4).
Uses standard starting gold minus 8000gp (hence not enough money for ECL 5-7).
Sorry, ability score and AC boosting items not shown.
Unmodified ability score array: 16,14,12,10,any,any
Benefits of rogue special abilities not included.
Designed for party use. Solo characters should focus more on AC & HP.

ECL HP AC AB Dmg Dmg per Round
8 28 23 14/14 8 9.6 vs. AC 23
9 34 24 15/15/15 11.5 20.7 vs. AC 24
10 45 23 17/17/17 15 29.3 vs. AC 25
11 54 24 19/19/19 22 46.2 vs. AC 26
12 55 24 22/22/22/17 25.5 75.2 vs. AC 27
13 71 24 22/22/22/17 32.5 89.4 vs. AC 28
14* 79.5 23 24/24/24/19 36 106.2 vs. AC 29
15 88 25 26/26/26/21 44.5 140.2 vs. AC 30
16 96.5 26 28/28/28/23 48.5 162.5 vs. AC 31
17* 105 26 28/28/28/23 59.5 187.4 vs. AC 32
18 99.5 26 31/31/31/26 60 213.0 vs. AC 33
19 122 28 32/32/32/27/22 64 227.2 vs. AC 34
20* 146.5 29 34/34/34/29/24 64.5 270.9 vs. AC 35
* Rogue special ability

Cloak of
ECL Weapon resistance Special
8 +1 -
9 +1 - Boots of Speed
10 +1 +1d6 -
11 +1 +2d6 +1 Bracers of Archery
12 +1 +3d6 +1
13 +1 +4d6 +1
14 +1 +3d6 W +1
15 +1 +4d6 W +1 Greater Bracers of Archery, Luckstone
16 +1 +5d6 W +1 silent moves (armor)
17 +1 +7d6 W +1 improved silent moves
18 +1 +7d6 W +1
19 +1 +7d6 W +2
20 +1 +7d6 W +4 greater silent moves
W = wounding
Xd6 = energy damage (holy, flaming, merciful, etc.)

Lizardfolk make excellent meatshields thanks to their high natural armor and decent stats. LA 1 plus 2 monster HD.
Grimlock: +2 LA, 2 monster HD. Totally blind, but you get perfect blindsight out to 40' through smell/sound/vibrations. Great against invisi-baddies. And uber cool style-wise. Also has a 40' movement rate and +10 to hide checks while underground... which for my party is ALWAYS. Seems like a great rogue or fighter.
Aranea: LA 4, 3 monster HD. the werewolf of spiders. Spend your time in hybrid form as a humanoid w/ fangs and spinnerets. Or transform into a monstrous spider or 100% human look-alike as needed. Gets "web" 6/day, which is essentially a thrown net. Sure, higher level baddies will break free, but it'll take them a round. Also has a climb speed. Casts spells as a 3rd level sorceror (which you may continue to raise... or not). And all his spidey powers are usable in hybrid "spiderman" form.
Merfolk: LA 1. Their stats would be overpowered, were it not for the absence of legs. Can breath air, 5' move when on land.
Sahuagin, four-armed: LA 3, 2 monster HD. Great for 4 weapon fighting. Must return to water every con/2 hours, though, or suffocate.
Rillek_Denar
02-23-07, 06:31 PM Why play a Sahuagin when you could be playing a Thri-Kreen? Same arms, less monster levels, and BONUS no dependency on water.
Archangel_Tyrael
02-23-07, 06:35 PM Gnolls ARE the pimp-shiz.

* Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2.
* Size Medium.
* A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet.
* Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* Racial Hit Dice: A gnoll begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +0, and Will +0.
* Racial Skills: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Listen and Spot.
* Racial Feats: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it one feat.
*+1 natural armor bonus.
* Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.
* Favored Class: Ranger.
* Level adjustment +1.

No comparison if you want something a little to the side of normal. Usually chaotic evil is what the descriptor says, but that's DM's discretion.
Nathreet
02-23-07, 07:10 PM Meh, gnolls are LA +1 and they get 2 lousy monster HD, for a total of 3. And only 1 BAB from the 2 HD. That means: -2 BAB (less attacks), +0 AB (-2 + 2 = 0), +2 damage, +1 AC, +1HP per level but -5.5HP at level 1 thanks to LA and d8 racial HD. I'd rather be a dwarf or an orc (+2 AB, +2 damage, none of those lousy penalties). Or a lizardfolk has the same LA & HD, and 2 less strength, but FIVE points of natural armor. If only gnolls were 1HD so you could replace the 1HD with a class level, then they'd be good.

Why play a Sahuagin when you could be playing a Thri-Kreen? Same arms, less monster levels, and BONUS no dependency on water.
Well, there you go. I hadn't heard of Thri-keen.
Elemental_Elf
02-24-07, 12:39 AM Half-Dragon, Half-Celestial Gnoll for the win! What's that, a +8 LA with 2 Racial Hit Dice for an ECL of +10? The back story on that creature would and should be amazing, or at the very least interesting.

If you want something realistic, be a Half-Dragon Kobold. :D
MongooseFamiliar
02-24-07, 01:02 PM There are level breakdowns for half-celestials in the Anger of Angels book put out by Malhavoc press that might be useful. If your DM allows it, you wouldn't have to take your LA all at once.
Rillek_Denar
02-25-07, 02:12 AM Yeah Nath, they're in Expanded Psionics Handbook. The especially fun thing is their +30 racial jump bonus. Get a bonus like that, you start finding ways to up your base speed, and how much damage falling PCs can do.
trapspringer
02-25-07, 08:44 PM As has already been mentioned, the best classes for a high-LA race are those with big hit die. You're gunna' be sore for HP.

The trick is most classes with big hit die are also big on close-quarters stuff, so you will need to find some way to use their close-quarters fighting to create a secondary melee class.

Fighter is the easiest for this purpose because all his "power" (and I use the term loosely) is very customizable. You can sculpt your role to fit your character.

Barbarian is also a good choice if you have access to UA. That big HD coupled with an archery build would make an excellent toon.
User5127
02-25-07, 09:29 PM I disagree with the LA killing casters.

a smart caster will easily be able to get alot of fire power and mileage out of his LA and regain the lost CL due to the LA boost.

and If your DM is willing let him/her include LA buy off. it makes nonstandard casters seem more interesting and alot easier to manage in the long run.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tumbling_chameleon 02-23-07, 02:24 AM	I'm about to draw up a new character, and I'm interested in playing a Half-Nymph or Half-Celestial. I was wondering what the best classes would be for these, considering the level adjustments that both have.
draco1119 02-23-07, 03:27 AM	Barbarian or Fighter/Paladin/Ranger. Remember that the Favored class is by base creature. If you're starting off at level 5, you're pretty well screwed. If you're starting at level 10, you're set. :) I'm playing a Half-Dragon Human in one of my campaigns. See if your DM will let you buy off at least a little bit of the LA at level 12 for a LA +4 (there are rules for that in Unearthed Arcana).
Yokomohoyo 02-23-07, 04:53 AM	If your making a level +10 game then make a Half Dragon/Troll Monk or Barbarian and make sure its a half black or half red dragon, then all you have to worry about is getting a ring of X element immunity for the other half hahahahaha... You'll have a +9 Natural armor class, health regen of +5, 6d8 racial hit die (which get bumped up to d10's due to half dragon), wings with a 120 flight due to size, 1d6 claw attacks, 1d8 bite attack, range of 10', breath weapon of 6d8, +20str, +4 Dexterity, +14 con, -2 int, -2 wis, -2cha
bob_the_great 02-23-07, 01:04 PM	I've been tossing around the idea of a half-celestial monk. with their moderate bonuses to every score you're best going with a class that suffers from MAD rather than classes which focus on one or two good scores. With their wings you're looking to avoid medium and heavy armor. maybe a half-celestial bard could be a fun and versatile (and maybe a little weak) character. Scouts typically only do only 1 attack a round anyway so the loss of bab (delaying your access to extra attacks) might not hurt so much. the annoying thing is that light armor, fewer hit dice, and flying just scream "archery" to me while a +2 dex, four levels of lost bab, and fewer feats makes that less attractive. maybe others more intelligent than I can think of better uses of half-celestials, but they're a race that while they'll always intrigue me I'll likely never play one.
Zoycitenega 02-23-07, 01:45 PM	Warmage for either; You get all the best spells by 10th level, with Scorching Ray at 4th dealing serious damage. As a celestial and a half-nymph you up or Charisma and, I believe, your Intelligence.
Comus 02-23-07, 02:23 PM	Okay. Here are the basics: 1 : Don't play anything with LA unless you have a compelling reason. Think to yourself "Are these stat bonuses really better than what I'd get for X levels of a class?" A +4 to strength might look as good as +2 BAB, but remember that it slows down when you get additional attacks. 2 : If you're still going to use something with LA... NEVER EVER PLAY A FULL CASTER. Delaying access to spells by even a single level can make a caster feel useless. Being able to cast Magic Missile is good. Having Magic Missile as your best spell at level 5 is not good. 3 : Keep the LA as low as possible. Don't stack templates. It destroys your HP base, your BAB goes to ****, and you lose access to class abilities. 4 : Play a fighting class. Some builds can make use of skills, but you'll be pretty far behind on the number of ranks you can take. With a fighting class, you can at least hit things. 5 : Expect to be the weakest party member. WotC subtly discourages using nonstandard races by making them nearly always a bad choice.
Nathreet 02-23-07, 06:13 PM	I recently compiled a list of playable races. Yeah, most suck. But here are some good ones: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/sprite.htm#pixie Pixies are LA 4 but with ridiculously good niceties to counterbalance. Pixie rogues rock. PIXIE ROGUE BUILD Magic long bow, 24/7 greater invis. SRD only. ECL = rogue level + 4 (pixie = LA 4). Uses standard starting gold minus 8000gp (hence not enough money for ECL 5-7). Sorry, ability score and AC boosting items not shown. Unmodified ability score array: 16,14,12,10,any,any Benefits of rogue special abilities not included. Designed for party use. Solo characters should focus more on AC & HP. ECL HP AC AB Dmg Dmg per Round 8 28 23 14/14 8 9.6 vs. AC 23 9 34 24 15/15/15 11.5 20.7 vs. AC 24 10 45 23 17/17/17 15 29.3 vs. AC 25 11 54 24 19/19/19 22 46.2 vs. AC 26 12 55 24 22/22/22/17 25.5 75.2 vs. AC 27 13 71 24 22/22/22/17 32.5 89.4 vs. AC 28 14* 79.5 23 24/24/24/19 36 106.2 vs. AC 29 15 88 25 26/26/26/21 44.5 140.2 vs. AC 30 16 96.5 26 28/28/28/23 48.5 162.5 vs. AC 31 17* 105 26 28/28/28/23 59.5 187.4 vs. AC 32 18 99.5 26 31/31/31/26 60 213.0 vs. AC 33 19 122 28 32/32/32/27/22 64 227.2 vs. AC 34 20* 146.5 29 34/34/34/29/24 64.5 270.9 vs. AC 35 * Rogue special ability Cloak of ECL Weapon resistance Special 8 +1 - 9 +1 - Boots of Speed 10 +1 +1d6 - 11 +1 +2d6 +1 Bracers of Archery 12 +1 +3d6 +1 13 +1 +4d6 +1 14 +1 +3d6 W +1 15 +1 +4d6 W +1 Greater Bracers of Archery, Luckstone 16 +1 +5d6 W +1 silent moves (armor) 17 +1 +7d6 W +1 improved silent moves 18 +1 +7d6 W +1 19 +1 +7d6 W +2 20 +1 +7d6 W +4 greater silent moves W = wounding Xd6 = energy damage (holy, flaming, merciful, etc.) Lizardfolk make excellent meatshields thanks to their high natural armor and decent stats. LA 1 plus 2 monster HD. Grimlock: +2 LA, 2 monster HD. Totally blind, but you get perfect blindsight out to 40' through smell/sound/vibrations. Great against invisi-baddies. And uber cool style-wise. Also has a 40' movement rate and +10 to hide checks while underground... which for my party is ALWAYS. Seems like a great rogue or fighter. Aranea: LA 4, 3 monster HD. the werewolf of spiders. Spend your time in hybrid form as a humanoid w/ fangs and spinnerets. Or transform into a monstrous spider or 100% human look-alike as needed. Gets "web" 6/day, which is essentially a thrown net. Sure, higher level baddies will break free, but it'll take them a round. Also has a climb speed. Casts spells as a 3rd level sorceror (which you may continue to raise... or not). And all his spidey powers are usable in hybrid "spiderman" form. Merfolk: LA 1. Their stats would be overpowered, were it not for the absence of legs. Can breath air, 5' move when on land. Sahuagin, four-armed: LA 3, 2 monster HD. Great for 4 weapon fighting. Must return to water every con/2 hours, though, or suffocate.
Rillek_Denar 02-23-07, 06:31 PM	Why play a Sahuagin when you could be playing a Thri-Kreen? Same arms, less monster levels, and BONUS no dependency on water.
Archangel_Tyrael 02-23-07, 06:35 PM	Gnolls ARE the pimp-shiz. * Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2. * Size Medium. * A gnoll’s base land speed is 30 feet. * Darkvision out to 60 feet. * Racial Hit Dice: A gnoll begins with two levels of humanoid, which provide 2d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, Ref +0, and Will +0. * Racial Skills: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Listen and Spot. * Racial Feats: A gnoll’s humanoid levels give it one feat. +1 natural armor bonus. Automatic Languages: Gnoll. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc. * Favored Class: Ranger. * Level adjustment +1. No comparison if you want something a little to the side of normal. Usually chaotic evil is what the descriptor says, but that's DM's discretion.
Nathreet 02-23-07, 07:10 PM	Meh, gnolls are LA +1 and they get 2 lousy monster HD, for a total of 3. And only 1 BAB from the 2 HD. That means: -2 BAB (less attacks), +0 AB (-2 + 2 = 0), +2 damage, +1 AC, +1HP per level but -5.5HP at level 1 thanks to LA and d8 racial HD. I'd rather be a dwarf or an orc (+2 AB, +2 damage, none of those lousy penalties). Or a lizardfolk has the same LA & HD, and 2 less strength, but FIVE points of natural armor. If only gnolls were 1HD so you could replace the 1HD with a class level, then they'd be good. Why play a Sahuagin when you could be playing a Thri-Kreen? Same arms, less monster levels, and BONUS no dependency on water. Well, there you go. I hadn't heard of Thri-keen.
Elemental_Elf 02-24-07, 12:39 AM	Half-Dragon, Half-Celestial Gnoll for the win! What's that, a +8 LA with 2 Racial Hit Dice for an ECL of +10? The back story on that creature would and should be amazing, or at the very least interesting. If you want something realistic, be a Half-Dragon Kobold. :D
MongooseFamiliar 02-24-07, 01:02 PM	There are level breakdowns for half-celestials in the Anger of Angels book put out by Malhavoc press that might be useful. If your DM allows it, you wouldn't have to take your LA all at once.
Rillek_Denar 02-25-07, 02:12 AM	Yeah Nath, they're in Expanded Psionics Handbook. The especially fun thing is their +30 racial jump bonus. Get a bonus like that, you start finding ways to up your base speed, and how much damage falling PCs can do.
trapspringer 02-25-07, 08:44 PM	As has already been mentioned, the best classes for a high-LA race are those with big hit die. You're gunna' be sore for HP. The trick is most classes with big hit die are also big on close-quarters stuff, so you will need to find some way to use their close-quarters fighting to create a secondary melee class. Fighter is the easiest for this purpose because all his "power" (and I use the term loosely) is very customizable. You can sculpt your role to fit your character. Barbarian is also a good choice if you have access to UA. That big HD coupled with an archery build would make an excellent toon.
User5127 02-25-07, 09:29 PM	I disagree with the LA killing casters. a smart caster will easily be able to get alot of fire power and mileage out of his LA and regain the lost CL due to the LA boost. and If your DM is willing let him/her include LA buy off. it makes nonstandard casters seem more interesting and alot easier to manage in the long run.