go to orc town? [Archive] - Wizards Community

go to orc town? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ericston
09-07-04, 07:40 AM im level 16 and i want to level
but my dm wont let me level unles i walk into an ork town.. ? how many orcs do i slay to gain level? im desperate, help!

~~ eric
Callista
09-07-04, 08:26 AM At level 16?! Uhm... do you even get any XP for an orc at that level?

Unless they have class levels, that is. Or crazy templates like Vampire or something. I dunno, it could be a clumsy attempt to get you caught up in the next story. Go with it, see what happens.

Oh, and, if your char's Good, s/he might have a bit of trouble with just walking into a town (orc or no) and slaughtering people. If your character would have a problem with it, then don't do it, or sneak in disguised without killing anything.
americanjay
09-08-04, 09:41 AM You always get XP for killing monsters. If they are too easy, you still get 1 experience point per Orc. This would mean you'd have to kill several thousand orcs! Ask your DM if he realizes this.

If he does and still tells you to go in I'd suggest you do so. Never question your DM's motives, he's even more in control of your character than you!
Bacon and Eggs
09-08-04, 11:12 AM How about an Orc with character levels.
Sildatorak
09-08-04, 02:20 PM You always get XP for killing monsters. If they are too easy, you still get 1 experience point per Orc. This would mean you'd have to kill several thousand orcs! Ask your DM if he realizes this.

If he does and still tells you to go in I'd suggest you do so. Never question your DM's motives, he's even more in control of your character than you!

That first bit is a house rule (not passing judgement on it, just observing that it is). By the rules as written you don't get any XP for an encounter with a CR that is significantly below your character level (can't remember the exact difference before the XP stops right now).

As for the DM being more in control of your character: bull:censored: (that is passing judgement on the statement). It is your character, and you have control over it unless there is a magical compulsion in place. That said, you (not your character) do have some obligation to the group to play nice if you want to play.

That doesn't mean that the DM should say "you go to orc town" and you do it automatically. It is up to the DM to put a hook out there that you will take. If he doesn't and still insists you go, talk to him out of character and tell him "I don't think that Natalia (or whatever your character's name is) would do this because x, y, and z." If he refuses to come up with another hook to motivate you, then sit the adventure out.
americanjay
09-09-04, 02:46 AM You're the arbiter of everything that happens in the game. Period.
DMG 3.0, page 17, under "Determining Outcomes"

So according to the Wizards otC. you are incorrect in your judgement.

Anyways, you don't get XP for single monsters of very low level (unless using that 'houserule'). But you do get XP for big problems with a big CR. And killing an entire town is a big encounter with a CR probably up to your level, even without orcs w/class levels!
For every doubling in the number of monsters, the CR goes up by 2. So 1 orc is CR 1/2, 2 orcs CR 1, 4 orcs CR 3, 8 orcs CR 5 .... about 250 orcs are CR 15. So it is true: you might have to kill several multiples of that, but your DM has surely thought of that problem. Maybe there are several orc towns?
Babs
10-27-04, 12:10 PM DMG 3.0, page 17, under "Determining Outcomes"

So according to the Wizards otC. you are incorrect in your judgement.

Anyways, you don't get XP for single monsters of very low level (unless using that 'houserule'). But you do get XP for big problems with a big CR. And killing an entire town is a big encounter with a CR probably up to your level, even without orcs w/class levels!
For every doubling in the number of monsters, the CR goes up by 2. So 1 orc is CR 1/2, 2 orcs CR 1, 4 orcs CR 3, 8 orcs CR 5 .... about 250 orcs are CR 15. So it is true: you might have to kill several multiples of that, but your DM has surely thought of that problem. Maybe there are several orc towns?

That is incorrect. You are confusing Encounter Level and Challenge rating. One Orc has an CR of 1/2 and if you encounter one the encounter is EL 1/2. If you encounter multiple, you grossly have to double the EL and not the CR ... thus about 250 Orcs have an EL of 15, but for the XP of killing them you get 250 times the Xp you would get for a CR 1/2 creature. 0 that is (or in the case of houserulling 1 for a total of 250 XP).

But you really *should* talk to your DM. D&D is not a game about killing creatures for XP. It has much more then that. Like roleplaying!

And Ericston you sound like you haven't played this game for long. I really suggest that if you're new to this game you start at level one. It'll then also be much easier to level since you only need to slay about 26.6 Orcs if you're in a party with three other characters. You do happen to be in a party? Do you?

Cheers
americanjay
10-29-04, 08:20 AM Deer Babs, what you are stating seems quite idiotic to me! Let's see:

If you have to kill 250 orcs, that's a challenge. Even for a lvl 16 fighter! Quite a challenge, I'd say. I wouldn't even dare bet on the fighter, good chances he will get his behind wooped by the orcs. So killing 250 orcs is a problem, a challenge. Because chances are about 50/50 I'd say the CR equals your level (which, not coincidentally, coincides with the CR I had calculated). I'm quite sure your DM will understand my point, so Ericston: go for it, but be careful!

Furthermore: D&D is a game. A game with dice. And apparently, Ericston's DM has chosen not to incorporate to much of that 'roleplaying'. Instead he understood that playing games, rolling dice and winning is something people actually care about.

Starting at level 1 might be a good suggestion. But not in this thread: it seems Ericston's DM chose level 16 and as I said before, "As the DM you're the arbiter of everything that happens in the game. Period."
Phrennzy
10-29-04, 10:13 AM According to the EL calculator 250 orcs are only a EL of 13.9, and the single 16th level fighter has an Effective Party Level of 12 - so it would actually be a balanced fight.

A 16th level fighter can do amazing things.
Callista
10-29-04, 12:36 PM You can kill a 16th level character with a group of ten orcs... if the orcs are prepared, and/or have some high-level allies.

A little underestimation of the enemy goes a long way.

*evil grin*
Babs
10-30-04, 08:36 PM If you have to kill 250 orcs, that's a challenge. Even for a lvl 16 fighter! Quite a challenge, I'd say. I wouldn't even dare bet on the fighter, good chances he will get his behind wooped by the orcs. So killing 250 orcs is a problem, a challenge. Because chances are about 50/50 I'd say the CR equals your level (which, not coincidentally, coincides with the CR I had calculated). I'm quite sure your DM will understand my point, so Ericston: go for it, but be careful!

Well, I never stated that killing 250 orcs isn't a challenge for a level 16 fighter, I just stated that according to the rules given for experience rewards as stated on page 36-38 of the DMG v3.5 a Lvl 16 Fighter should not recieve any experience for this. (Unless the Orcs had character levels)
But of course if you do not like these rules you are free, as a DM, to change them to you're liking.

Furthermore: D&D is a game. A game with dice. And apparently, Ericston's DM has chosen not to incorporate to much of that 'roleplaying'. Instead he understood that playing games, rolling dice and winning is something people actually care about.

Of course, as ever, you're free to play D&D the way you like it, so if you like to 'roll-play' you should do that since the main thing about playing games is to simply have fun and if one haves most fun rolling die one should do that. (Of course the question then is why they play D&D and not Yahtzee instead)

Starting at level 1 might be a good suggestion. But not in this thread: it seems Ericston's DM chose level 16 and as I said before, "As the DM you're the arbiter of everything that happens in the game. Period."
Ericston's DM is indeed the arbiter of Ericston's game, but if it ain't fun for one who doesn't know D&D too well I doubt it if one can have fun as a 16th level character. And it is all about fun is it?

According to the EL calculator 250 orcs are only a EL of 13.9, and the single 16th level fighter has an Effective Party Level of 12 - so it would actually be a balanced fight.

A 16th level fighter can do amazing things.

Well it is probably more likely that among the 250 orcs there are some leaders and other baddies-with-character-levels (SHAMANS!!!!!) around. So the question of the EL will mostly depend on the CR of these. Of course if theirs a few high CR leaders in the warband one would also recieve some XP and some nice magic items, just to make everybody happy. :D

Cheers
Bringslite
10-30-04, 09:40 PM It is important to remmeber that in these boards the best way to answer a question or make a statement is to use the RAW. The exception to this is if you are asked what your house rules are, or what you think the rules should be. Otherwise, getting answers here would be nothing more than getting 1,000,000 different opinions. Not much help.

By the RAW, defeating 250 regular orcs would net a character 0 exp. Yes the final exp reward is up to the DM, but that is not RAW.

Yes, the DM is the final arbiter (or judge) of what happens in his campaign. However, you seem to be taking that rule out of context. A "game" is a contest between 2 or more participants. The players tell the DM what they do or try to do and the DM is the final arbiter of what happens when they try this. There is nothing wrong with a player refusing to enter an orc town if he is not magically compelled to. I would not consider it a very good game if the DM just told me "You enter the orc town, you do this and this happens, etc. etc." That would be a book not a game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ericston 09-07-04, 07:40 AM	im level 16 and i want to level but my dm wont let me level unles i walk into an ork town.. ? how many orcs do i slay to gain level? im desperate, help! ~~ eric
Callista 09-07-04, 08:26 AM	At level 16?! Uhm... do you even get any XP for an orc at that level? Unless they have class levels, that is. Or crazy templates like Vampire or something. I dunno, it could be a clumsy attempt to get you caught up in the next story. Go with it, see what happens. Oh, and, if your char's Good, s/he might have a bit of trouble with just walking into a town (orc or no) and slaughtering people. If your character would have a problem with it, then don't do it, or sneak in disguised without killing anything.
americanjay 09-08-04, 09:41 AM	You always get XP for killing monsters. If they are too easy, you still get 1 experience point per Orc. This would mean you'd have to kill several thousand orcs! Ask your DM if he realizes this. If he does and still tells you to go in I'd suggest you do so. Never question your DM's motives, he's even more in control of your character than you!
Bacon and Eggs 09-08-04, 11:12 AM	How about an Orc with character levels.
Sildatorak 09-08-04, 02:20 PM	You always get XP for killing monsters. If they are too easy, you still get 1 experience point per Orc. This would mean you'd have to kill several thousand orcs! Ask your DM if he realizes this. If he does and still tells you to go in I'd suggest you do so. Never question your DM's motives, he's even more in control of your character than you! That first bit is a house rule (not passing judgement on it, just observing that it is). By the rules as written you don't get any XP for an encounter with a CR that is significantly below your character level (can't remember the exact difference before the XP stops right now). As for the DM being more in control of your character: bull:censored: (that is passing judgement on the statement). It is your character, and you have control over it unless there is a magical compulsion in place. That said, you (not your character) do have some obligation to the group to play nice if you want to play. That doesn't mean that the DM should say "you go to orc town" and you do it automatically. It is up to the DM to put a hook out there that you will take. If he doesn't and still insists you go, talk to him out of character and tell him "I don't think that Natalia (or whatever your character's name is) would do this because x, y, and z." If he refuses to come up with another hook to motivate you, then sit the adventure out.
americanjay 09-09-04, 02:46 AM	You're the arbiter of everything that happens in the game. Period. DMG 3.0, page 17, under "Determining Outcomes" So according to the Wizards otC. you are incorrect in your judgement. Anyways, you don't get XP for single monsters of very low level (unless using that 'houserule'). But you do get XP for big problems with a big CR. And killing an entire town is a big encounter with a CR probably up to your level, even without orcs w/class levels! For every doubling in the number of monsters, the CR goes up by 2. So 1 orc is CR 1/2, 2 orcs CR 1, 4 orcs CR 3, 8 orcs CR 5 .... about 250 orcs are CR 15. So it is true: you might have to kill several multiples of that, but your DM has surely thought of that problem. Maybe there are several orc towns?
Babs 10-27-04, 12:10 PM	DMG 3.0, page 17, under "Determining Outcomes" So according to the Wizards otC. you are incorrect in your judgement. Anyways, you don't get XP for single monsters of very low level (unless using that 'houserule'). But you do get XP for big problems with a big CR. And killing an entire town is a big encounter with a CR probably up to your level, even without orcs w/class levels! For every doubling in the number of monsters, the CR goes up by 2. So 1 orc is CR 1/2, 2 orcs CR 1, 4 orcs CR 3, 8 orcs CR 5 .... about 250 orcs are CR 15. So it is true: you might have to kill several multiples of that, but your DM has surely thought of that problem. Maybe there are several orc towns? That is incorrect. You are confusing Encounter Level and Challenge rating. One Orc has an CR of 1/2 and if you encounter one the encounter is EL 1/2. If you encounter multiple, you grossly have to double the EL and not the CR ... thus about 250 Orcs have an EL of 15, but for the XP of killing them you get 250 times the Xp you would get for a CR 1/2 creature. 0 that is (or in the case of houserulling 1 for a total of 250 XP). But you really should talk to your DM. D&D is not a game about killing creatures for XP. It has much more then that. Like roleplaying! And Ericston you sound like you haven't played this game for long. I really suggest that if you're new to this game you start at level one. It'll then also be much easier to level since you only need to slay about 26.6 Orcs if you're in a party with three other characters. You do happen to be in a party? Do you? Cheers
americanjay 10-29-04, 08:20 AM	Deer Babs, what you are stating seems quite idiotic to me! Let's see: If you have to kill 250 orcs, that's a challenge. Even for a lvl 16 fighter! Quite a challenge, I'd say. I wouldn't even dare bet on the fighter, good chances he will get his behind wooped by the orcs. So killing 250 orcs is a problem, a challenge. Because chances are about 50/50 I'd say the CR equals your level (which, not coincidentally, coincides with the CR I had calculated). I'm quite sure your DM will understand my point, so Ericston: go for it, but be careful! Furthermore: D&D is a game. A game with dice. And apparently, Ericston's DM has chosen not to incorporate to much of that 'roleplaying'. Instead he understood that playing games, rolling dice and winning is something people actually care about. Starting at level 1 might be a good suggestion. But not in this thread: it seems Ericston's DM chose level 16 and as I said before, "As the DM you're the arbiter of everything that happens in the game. Period."
Phrennzy 10-29-04, 10:13 AM	According to the EL calculator 250 orcs are only a EL of 13.9, and the single 16th level fighter has an Effective Party Level of 12 - so it would actually be a balanced fight. A 16th level fighter can do amazing things.
Callista 10-29-04, 12:36 PM	You can kill a 16th level character with a group of ten orcs... if the orcs are prepared, and/or have some high-level allies. A little underestimation of the enemy goes a long way. evil grin
Babs 10-30-04, 08:36 PM	If you have to kill 250 orcs, that's a challenge. Even for a lvl 16 fighter! Quite a challenge, I'd say. I wouldn't even dare bet on the fighter, good chances he will get his behind wooped by the orcs. So killing 250 orcs is a problem, a challenge. Because chances are about 50/50 I'd say the CR equals your level (which, not coincidentally, coincides with the CR I had calculated). I'm quite sure your DM will understand my point, so Ericston: go for it, but be careful! Well, I never stated that killing 250 orcs isn't a challenge for a level 16 fighter, I just stated that according to the rules given for experience rewards as stated on page 36-38 of the DMG v3.5 a Lvl 16 Fighter should not recieve any experience for this. (Unless the Orcs had character levels) But of course if you do not like these rules you are free, as a DM, to change them to you're liking. Furthermore: D&D is a game. A game with dice. And apparently, Ericston's DM has chosen not to incorporate to much of that 'roleplaying'. Instead he understood that playing games, rolling dice and winning is something people actually care about. Of course, as ever, you're free to play D&D the way you like it, so if you like to 'roll-play' you should do that since the main thing about playing games is to simply have fun and if one haves most fun rolling die one should do that. (Of course the question then is why they play D&D and not Yahtzee instead) Starting at level 1 might be a good suggestion. But not in this thread: it seems Ericston's DM chose level 16 and as I said before, "As the DM you're the arbiter of everything that happens in the game. Period." Ericston's DM is indeed the arbiter of Ericston's game, but if it ain't fun for one who doesn't know D&D too well I doubt it if one can have fun as a 16th level character. And it is all about fun is it? According to the EL calculator 250 orcs are only a EL of 13.9, and the single 16th level fighter has an Effective Party Level of 12 - so it would actually be a balanced fight. A 16th level fighter can do amazing things. Well it is probably more likely that among the 250 orcs there are some leaders and other baddies-with-character-levels (SHAMANS!!!!!) around. So the question of the EL will mostly depend on the CR of these. Of course if theirs a few high CR leaders in the warband one would also recieve some XP and some nice magic items, just to make everybody happy. :D Cheers
Bringslite 10-30-04, 09:40 PM	It is important to remmeber that in these boards the best way to answer a question or make a statement is to use the RAW. The exception to this is if you are asked what your house rules are, or what you think the rules should be. Otherwise, getting answers here would be nothing more than getting 1,000,000 different opinions. Not much help. By the RAW, defeating 250 regular orcs would net a character 0 exp. Yes the final exp reward is up to the DM, but that is not RAW. Yes, the DM is the final arbiter (or judge) of what happens in his campaign. However, you seem to be taking that rule out of context. A "game" is a contest between 2 or more participants. The players tell the DM what they do or try to do and the DM is the final arbiter of what happens when they try this. There is nothing wrong with a player refusing to enter an orc town if he is not magically compelled to. I would not consider it a very good game if the DM just told me "You enter the orc town, you do this and this happens, etc. etc." That would be a book not a game.