Going into the World's Biggest Dungeon (NO Spoilers) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Going into the World's Biggest Dungeon (NO Spoilers) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kialindo
09-27-04, 08:46 AM Ok, here goes .....

I will be starting in the World's Biggest Dungeon adventure. There will be a group of six of us going in and we will be generating our characters soon. We will probably be getting max starting gold for our class. Most of the Core WotC books will be allowed. No Forgotten Realms or Eberron books and no 3rd Party books (i.e. Mongoose, Green Ronin, etc.)

So WITHOUT giving any SPOILERS here is what I would like. Reccomendations on a team build (i.e. class and feat must haves), equipment that will be helpful, and any other general advice that you can give.

My general thoughts so far are as follows:
Cleric, Rogue, Wizard or Sorcerer, Paldin, Ranger, Barbarian or Fighter

As far as feats we are thinking some team feats from Complete Warrior and then class appropriate feats.

Thanks in advance and remember NO SPOILERS!!!
Archangel
09-27-04, 09:00 AM Firstly Complete Warrior is not a Core Book!

The best party would be: Barbarian or Ranger, Fighter or Paladin, Wizard (maybe Sorcerer), Cleric or Druid, Rogue, Bard or Monk.
My pick would be Barbarian, Fighter, Sorcerer, Druid, Rogue/Ranger, Bard!
Barbarian: Standard Greatsword power attack+cleave
Fighter: Spike Chain + Improved Trip
Sorcerer: A lot of attack spells!
Druid: A little healing with a lot of attack spells
Rogue/Ranger: Scout and archer
Bard: support and buffer, all the support spells the Sorcerer didn't take!
Kialindo
09-27-04, 09:05 AM Archangel true on the CW not being core ... but what I meant was non campaign specific WotC rule books....

Thanks for the suggestions
Kialindo
09-29-04, 11:24 AM :bump: anybody else have any ideas? basically I am looking for your thoughts on a well balanced, combat heavy party ... thanks in advance
Vradin
09-29-04, 12:10 PM Fighter - w/ defense heavy feats/gear
Ranger - w/ bow feats, multishot, rapid shot, etc
Cleric - geared for undead killin / healin
Cleric - geared for offensive spells (clerics w/ high con make good fighters too), lots of concentration / combat casting, etc
Wizard - high dmg obviously
Rogue - Dmg + all the roguely abilities the party will need for a good dungeon crawl

Vradin
tiercel
09-29-04, 08:59 PM Having been in another "big dungeon" campaign (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil), let me make a specific suggestion for your arcane caster:

Battlefield Control.

Sure, it's sexy to blast your enemies with missiles of force, gouts of acid, and fiery explosions, but in a party of six you shouldn't be hurting for ways to maim and dismember your enemies. Have your arcane caster concentrate on ways to make the battlefield the one you want. Glitterdust is awesome against a mob of Big Dumb Beasts (poor Will saves), grease disrupts a charging horde, web cuts off line of sight, physically blocks and entraps creatures within an area, stinking cloud cuts off line of sight and incapacitates, slow takes away scary full-round attacks and basically makes sure your foes won't be escaping without magic. Area of effect and barrier spells let your arcane caster determine the size and shape of the battlefield, and cut up enemy forces that outnumber you into nice, manageable chunks. Area of effect and barrier spells are particularly good in dungeons, since you can be sure your enemies will be nice and packed together, and a single spell can disrupt or seal off an entire hallway, intersection, or room. Fireballing the enemy archers might or might not kill them, but nailing them with stinking cloud will force them to move, even if they make their Fort saves -- and then they are on the other side of the cloud and out of the battle, or they are closer to you than they want to be with a nasty, debilitating barrier at their backs.

As for the rest of the party - I'd say you will want more than one source of healing in a party of six. If you only have one cleric, and no help from a bard/paladin/ranger/druid/another cleric, that poor priest is going to be nothing but cure, cure, cure. In fact - if you are going into the "biggest dungeon in the world," make sure somebody is at least reasonably good at turning undead, because I can't imagine you won't run into plenty of them at some point. Make sure you have some ranged damage; all your front-line fighters should have some kind of backup ranged weapon, and having a devoted archer character wouldn't be terrible.

So one of many possible good generic lineups:

Tank (big AC/hp): "Sword and board" fighter is the classic, barb also works (though hurting for AC) or paladin (though the mount will not be as useful in a dungeon, unless you are a gnomish paladin, say...)

Front-line-hitter #2: Possibly another Tank, though a THF damage machine (or even a TWF hitter), a battle-cleric, or the aforementioned Small paladin would do well

Rogue: Big piles of maxed-out dungeoneering skills, and heaps of sneak attack once your meat shields have engaged the enemy

Archer: Bard allows you to pick up all those "face" skills (in case not everything in the dungeon automatically wants to kill you), UMD (I can't imagine you won't need it at least once), a nice collection of support spells, bardsong really shines in parties of 5+, and bards make decent archers.... Alternatively, if you want a hardcore archer, ranger is probably a great bet (with better hp and BAB), not to mention he can keep your rogue company on recon missions. Both a ranger and a bard can use that most useful of Party Magical Items, the god-stick (wand of cure light wounds).

Wizard: heavy on the conjuration, though not necessarily a specialist wizard. Check with your DM for hints on the availability of looting spellbooks, and downtime for finding/learning new spells, scribing scrolls, and crafting items -- if these are likely to be in short supply, a sorc may be your best bet instead.

Cleric: how many non-healing spells he will get to actually use depends on how much help he has. If he has another cleric, or a bard+paladin, in the party, he will get to unleash a lot more in terms of magic, as well as entering melee. If he doesn't have much help, don't even really try to make him a big war-cleric; he will be too busy healing.

In the end, though, you should play what you want to play. An "unbalanced" party including four arcane casters or a holy crusade of three clerics, a druid, a paladin, and a monk will break with conventional wisdom but will be more fun than playing a "balanced" party if everybody gets to be a character they really want. If you do go unbalanced, just make sure that everyone is able to work together to use whatever unusual strengths you have to make up for the gaps left by missing roles.
Daydreamer
09-30-04, 01:31 AM Have you started yet? what did your party end up being?
Because some friends of mine started pcing in this exact dungeon.
Personally given the makeup of the dungeon i would like a sorceror or a nuke heavy wizard. AT least 1 cleric with healing magic. A rogue (in the group of my friends rogue+illusionist=deadly). A fighter or barbarian for sure.
The entire group of my friends is
barb
1xfight
1xbarb
1cleric
2rogue
1wiz
1sorc
which is 8 members and classes piked on what thtye want not for optimization. But from what i hear they are doing well.
R-man
09-30-04, 07:27 AM Don't play a Wizard, there are problems with the character being effective in the dungeon.

Sorcerer is good, Psion is good, Bard is good though possibly weak due to the amount of combat. There is plenty of Roleplaying oportunities in the Dungeon.

It is a very good module, albeit very expensive to purchase.
Kialindo
09-30-04, 08:46 AM The game is being run at my FLGS Battleground Games (http://battlegroundgames.com/) there are to be 4 groups of 6 and we will be all going into the dungeon in a round robin type of setup .... I am not totally unsure of the story behind the game but we will be getting it soon .... character generation starts in Oct and I think the game will actually kick off in early November.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kialindo 09-27-04, 08:46 AM	Ok, here goes ..... I will be starting in the World's Biggest Dungeon adventure. There will be a group of six of us going in and we will be generating our characters soon. We will probably be getting max starting gold for our class. Most of the Core WotC books will be allowed. No Forgotten Realms or Eberron books and no 3rd Party books (i.e. Mongoose, Green Ronin, etc.) So WITHOUT giving any SPOILERS here is what I would like. Reccomendations on a team build (i.e. class and feat must haves), equipment that will be helpful, and any other general advice that you can give. My general thoughts so far are as follows: Cleric, Rogue, Wizard or Sorcerer, Paldin, Ranger, Barbarian or Fighter As far as feats we are thinking some team feats from Complete Warrior and then class appropriate feats. Thanks in advance and remember NO SPOILERS!!!
Archangel 09-27-04, 09:00 AM	Firstly Complete Warrior is not a Core Book! The best party would be: Barbarian or Ranger, Fighter or Paladin, Wizard (maybe Sorcerer), Cleric or Druid, Rogue, Bard or Monk. My pick would be Barbarian, Fighter, Sorcerer, Druid, Rogue/Ranger, Bard! Barbarian: Standard Greatsword power attack+cleave Fighter: Spike Chain + Improved Trip Sorcerer: A lot of attack spells! Druid: A little healing with a lot of attack spells Rogue/Ranger: Scout and archer Bard: support and buffer, all the support spells the Sorcerer didn't take!
Kialindo 09-27-04, 09:05 AM	Archangel true on the CW not being core ... but what I meant was non campaign specific WotC rule books.... Thanks for the suggestions
Kialindo 09-29-04, 11:24 AM	:bump: anybody else have any ideas? basically I am looking for your thoughts on a well balanced, combat heavy party ... thanks in advance
Vradin 09-29-04, 12:10 PM	Fighter - w/ defense heavy feats/gear Ranger - w/ bow feats, multishot, rapid shot, etc Cleric - geared for undead killin / healin Cleric - geared for offensive spells (clerics w/ high con make good fighters too), lots of concentration / combat casting, etc Wizard - high dmg obviously Rogue - Dmg + all the roguely abilities the party will need for a good dungeon crawl Vradin
tiercel 09-29-04, 08:59 PM	Having been in another "big dungeon" campaign (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil), let me make a specific suggestion for your arcane caster: Battlefield Control. Sure, it's sexy to blast your enemies with missiles of force, gouts of acid, and fiery explosions, but in a party of six you shouldn't be hurting for ways to maim and dismember your enemies. Have your arcane caster concentrate on ways to make the battlefield the one you want. Glitterdust is awesome against a mob of Big Dumb Beasts (poor Will saves), grease disrupts a charging horde, web cuts off line of sight, physically blocks and entraps creatures within an area, stinking cloud cuts off line of sight and incapacitates, slow takes away scary full-round attacks and basically makes sure your foes won't be escaping without magic. Area of effect and barrier spells let your arcane caster determine the size and shape of the battlefield, and cut up enemy forces that outnumber you into nice, manageable chunks. Area of effect and barrier spells are particularly good in dungeons, since you can be sure your enemies will be nice and packed together, and a single spell can disrupt or seal off an entire hallway, intersection, or room. Fireballing the enemy archers might or might not kill them, but nailing them with stinking cloud will force them to move, even if they make their Fort saves -- and then they are on the other side of the cloud and out of the battle, or they are closer to you than they want to be with a nasty, debilitating barrier at their backs. As for the rest of the party - I'd say you will want more than one source of healing in a party of six. If you only have one cleric, and no help from a bard/paladin/ranger/druid/another cleric, that poor priest is going to be nothing but cure, cure, cure. In fact - if you are going into the "biggest dungeon in the world," make sure somebody is at least reasonably good at turning undead, because I can't imagine you won't run into plenty of them at some point. Make sure you have some ranged damage; all your front-line fighters should have some kind of backup ranged weapon, and having a devoted archer character wouldn't be terrible. So one of many possible good generic lineups: Tank (big AC/hp): "Sword and board" fighter is the classic, barb also works (though hurting for AC) or paladin (though the mount will not be as useful in a dungeon, unless you are a gnomish paladin, say...) Front-line-hitter #2: Possibly another Tank, though a THF damage machine (or even a TWF hitter), a battle-cleric, or the aforementioned Small paladin would do well Rogue: Big piles of maxed-out dungeoneering skills, and heaps of sneak attack once your meat shields have engaged the enemy Archer: Bard allows you to pick up all those "face" skills (in case not everything in the dungeon automatically wants to kill you), UMD (I can't imagine you won't need it at least once), a nice collection of support spells, bardsong really shines in parties of 5+, and bards make decent archers.... Alternatively, if you want a hardcore archer, ranger is probably a great bet (with better hp and BAB), not to mention he can keep your rogue company on recon missions. Both a ranger and a bard can use that most useful of Party Magical Items, the god-stick (wand of cure light wounds). Wizard: heavy on the conjuration, though not necessarily a specialist wizard. Check with your DM for hints on the availability of looting spellbooks, and downtime for finding/learning new spells, scribing scrolls, and crafting items -- if these are likely to be in short supply, a sorc may be your best bet instead. Cleric: how many non-healing spells he will get to actually use depends on how much help he has. If he has another cleric, or a bard+paladin, in the party, he will get to unleash a lot more in terms of magic, as well as entering melee. If he doesn't have much help, don't even really try to make him a big war-cleric; he will be too busy healing. In the end, though, you should play what you want to play. An "unbalanced" party including four arcane casters or a holy crusade of three clerics, a druid, a paladin, and a monk will break with conventional wisdom but will be more fun than playing a "balanced" party if everybody gets to be a character they really want. If you do go unbalanced, just make sure that everyone is able to work together to use whatever unusual strengths you have to make up for the gaps left by missing roles.
Daydreamer 09-30-04, 01:31 AM	Have you started yet? what did your party end up being? Because some friends of mine started pcing in this exact dungeon. Personally given the makeup of the dungeon i would like a sorceror or a nuke heavy wizard. AT least 1 cleric with healing magic. A rogue (in the group of my friends rogue+illusionist=deadly). A fighter or barbarian for sure. The entire group of my friends is barb 1xfight 1xbarb 1cleric 2rogue 1wiz 1sorc which is 8 members and classes piked on what thtye want not for optimization. But from what i hear they are doing well.
R-man 09-30-04, 07:27 AM	Don't play a Wizard, there are problems with the character being effective in the dungeon. Sorcerer is good, Psion is good, Bard is good though possibly weak due to the amount of combat. There is plenty of Roleplaying oportunities in the Dungeon. It is a very good module, albeit very expensive to purchase.
Kialindo 09-30-04, 08:46 AM	The game is being run at my FLGS Battleground Games (http://battlegroundgames.com/) there are to be 4 groups of 6 and we will be all going into the dungeon in a round robin type of setup .... I am not totally unsure of the story behind the game but we will be getting it soon .... character generation starts in Oct and I think the game will actually kick off in early November.