Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wonton2006 06-04-07, 09:37 PM	I'm playing a solo campaign, where I am a Tiefling Rogue 5/Swashbuckler 1/Invisible Blade 4. My DM has introduced another PC into the game, who plays for the opposite side... he says that our actions will probably influence each other, but we're unlikely to meet that often. He then suggested that we might fight at some point. After which he asked me "what is your will save?" When I asked why, he said that the other player was playing a Mindbender class and could possibly try to enslave me. I looked up the class with the limited resources I have... And I'm scared already... Due to all that multiclassing, my Will save is only +3... I know that the other player is level 10, which means he has a maximum of 5 Mindbender levels... which is still enough to completely dominate me, probably. The other thing is... I have virtually ZERO magical equipment... and lack the money to buy any (for now, I'll probably acquire some later). I have approximately 600 gp on me at the moment... and owe 2000. What exactly can I do?... :confused:
RainerNader 06-04-07, 09:56 PM	Why do you have so little magical equipment? Well, the easy patch would be to spring for a Cloak of Resistance, but that probably isn't an option. So I think your only option is to multiclass into something else with a good Will save, and take Iron Will as soon as you can. Actually, do you have a good CHA? There is a feat called Force of Personality that lets you use your CHA for Will saves vs. mind-effecting effects. I believe Scorpion's Resolve is another good feat for Will saves vs mind-effecting effects, too.
Wonton2006 06-04-07, 10:03 PM	Umm... my Wisdom is 12, which is actually half-decent... my Charisma is 5... :embarrass Oh, and by the way... it's not a low-magic world or anything... quite the opposite. It's just that pretty much all my possessions, which includes equipment and gold, were lost in an accident... I know a Cloak of Resistance would be simple and would help a lot... but I just don't have the money... at level 10, yeah I know... :rolleyes:
Tempest Stormwind 06-04-07, 10:18 PM	If he's an intelligent player, he will only take one level of Mindbender. More than that is a complete and utter waste, due to the loss of caster levels. The difference? A Wiz 5 / Mindbender 5 can cast 4th level spells, while a Wiz 5 / OtherPRC 4 / Mindbender 1 can cast 5th level spells and will gain 6th level ones next level, and those spells are 2 levels better, last longer, and he's got more of them. No one ever takes more than 5 levels of Wizard, or possibly 3 if they're specialized (due to Master Specialist). However, that one level of Mindbender does open him up for Mindsight, which means he will be able to pinpoint you if you're within 100 feet of him, even if you're on a different floor in the dungeon, and can target you if he's got line of effect. He even knows your type and Intelligence score, which means he can probably figure out it's you in particular. It's also debatable as to whether or not this is actually a mind-affecting effect -- it doesn't work on mindless things but might work on things that have been Mind Blanked. In short, you're hosed. I note your magic equipment is kind of lacking; focus on getting things that let you reroll saves or on anything that can make you immune to mind-affecting things. I believe there's a feat that lets you use Constitution on Will saves in the PHB2 as well, but that's probably a troublesome idea for you. Another alternative is an adjusted Iron Heart Vest (Tome of Battle) priced for two manevuers - a prerequisite maneuver (Wall of Blades, say) and Iron Heart Surge. It's not perfect (since you have to be able to move, and aware you're under the effect of magic, and willing to remove that effect -- which means that if you're Dominated, it's right out), but it will let you do the Conan-Shakes-Off-The-Evil-Magic thing once per encounter, which could be the difference between life and death. If all else fails, find a way to make your party immune to your most lethal attacks, as you're likely to end up attacking them if he shows up.
Maekrix_Waere 06-04-07, 10:33 PM	If all else fails, find a way to make your party immune to your most lethal attacks, as you're likely to end up attacking them if he shows up. He's in a solo campaign. To the OP:Well, only advice I have is try and stay away from him...that's all I can possibly see saving you.
Wonton2006 06-04-07, 10:52 PM	Well, the only real thing I think I have going for me in combat is that all of his hit dice are probably d4s.... so, if I can make it into melee, I can slaughter him in a few successful sneak attacks (I have feint as a move action...) Yeah, avoiding conflict seems the best idea so far though.. :P Or at least I can actually get some decent magical equipment...
MerlintheTuna 06-05-07, 12:58 AM	A Wiz 5 / Mindbender 5 can cast 4th level spells, while a Wiz 5 / OtherPRC 4 / Mindbender 1 can cast 5th level spells and will gain 6th level ones next level, and those spells are 2 levels better, last longer, and he's got more of them.While this is certainly true, it also misses the fact that a Wizard 10 (which, as mentioned, doesn't really exist these days) is better at bending minds than a Wiz 5/Mindbender 5.
Yokomohoyo 06-05-07, 01:17 AM	Try to get an item of Disobediance from the Complete Scoundral. Its a 3rd or 4th level spell (if I remember correctly). So the cost of the item won't be that much. You could get it on a scroll (25gp X 3rd level spell X 5th level caster = 375gp) or a permanate item (a bit more expensive but it will last you more). Anyways the spell makes it so that you can not be the target of a dominate more or less... I hope that helps.
Tempest Stormwind 06-05-07, 01:59 AM	While this is certainly true, it also misses the fact that a Wizard 10 (which, as mentioned, doesn't really exist these days) is better at bending minds than a Wiz 5/Mindbender 5. I accounted for that in the second part, but yours was more explicit. Wiz 5 / OtherPRC 4 / Mindbender 1 = Wiz 10 in casting, but has higher Fortitude/Will saves, a broader selection of class skills... oh, and 100' telepathy, plus whatever else the other caster PrC provides (which is likely an even higher Will save and gobsmacking class features). The reason that no one ever goes beyond Wiz 5 (or possibly even 3, if you're specialized, though specialist wizards up to 5 do exist) is because until Complete Mage, virtually every wizard PrC published in most sources a wizard would be interested in had full spellcasting progression. In fact, full-casting PrC progression was a no-brainer part of design until the XPH (which made sure every PrC lost at least one caster level, typically at first level, in exchange for the gobsmacking class features). From there, the good idea seemed to propogate throughout the rest of the system, and now most wizard PrCs lose a caster level. But all the old ones are still out there... and several are just plain ol' too good (Incantrix, I'm lookin' at you).
Potato Weasel 06-05-07, 09:22 AM	well, it's very cheap and easy actually. Buy potions of protection from evil. (or good, or lawfaull, whatever you come up against most) Note that whatever flavor you buy (I imagine prot from good is dark chocolate flavored) you are protected from mind controlling effects for the duration, they'll come back into play once its over, and you have to save against em if he casts em, but they arent active till your potion runs out. Means if he tries to dominate you while you talk to him, you have to stab him multiple times, very quickly.
goawayugh 06-05-07, 09:43 AM	I can slaughter him in a few successful sneak attacks (I have feint as a move action...) One of the requirements for Mindbender is Sense Motive 4 ranks. You better hope he hasn't maxed that out, or your just done. If he has that feat from LoM (mindsight I think?), then there is no sneaking up on him either. Like someone said earlier, he will know where you are within 100'. This is why I LOVE mind-affecting stuff.
bob_the_great 06-05-07, 09:44 AM	like the above poster said, you always have "protection from evil and kill him fast" as an option. this is a situation where 1v1 isn't really fair. if you were a cleric the mindbender would be useless against you. your best bet would be an ally who can protect you from the mindbender's powers.
northern_bear 06-05-07, 09:45 AM	What exactly can I do? So, let me see if I got this straight. You met the other character in game. He said "hello, I'm George the mind bender". And then your PC realised there was a really good chance he would have to fight George. So the PC imediately ran to the local library of obscure wizardl deviations. The character realised that mindbenders have the power to mentally control people. Your character is well aware that he is extremely vulnerable to mind control, so he is now on a quest to figure out how to protect himself from mind control, wo that when he has to fight George, he'll be ready for it. Is that what happened? No? Then stop metagaming. This may be difficult, but try to play your character as though the character doesn't know any of the things that he doesn't know.
bob_the_great 06-05-07, 10:09 AM	So, let me see if I got this straight. You met the other character in game. He said "hello, I'm George the mind bender". And then your PC realised there was a really good chance he would have to fight George. So the PC imediately ran to the local library of obscure wizardl deviations. The character realised that mindbenders have the power to mentally control people. Your character is well aware that he is extremely vulnerable to mind control, so he is now on a quest to figure out how to protect himself from mind control, wo that when he has to fight George, he'll be ready for it. Is that what happened? No? Then stop metagaming. This may be difficult, but try to play your character as though the character doesn't know any of the things that he doesn't know. I look at it this way: The DM is incorporating 1v1, which is not standard D&D. The DM is allowing a caster to oppose a fighter. The DM knows that the fighter is basically dead before things start, so he is giving the player advance knowledge as to give him a semblance of a chance. If the OP doesn't metagame he stands no chance. With metagaming he stands little chance anyway. Lay off the player, the DM has presented this information for a reason.
Leo 06-05-07, 11:18 AM	Become a vampire. NOW. Or other kind of undeatha and laugh as you become immune to 90% of the dirty tricks out there. Or become an half golem(fiend folio). Get a wizard to implant you an atifical limb, fail the recquired will save, and become a mindless killing machine. Your int and cha will suck(-6 penalty to each), but construct traits and obscene bouns to str, plus some special abilities and nat armor bonus are good for any golem. The implant costs around 500 GP, wich is around what you have. it's kinda desesperate measure, but there isn't any easy way out of this.
solbergb 06-05-07, 01:37 PM	Potion of prot evil. Don't leave home without it. Hope you win initiative, and then that you win the fight before its duration expires. Forget metagaming. This should be among the first thing any warrior-type buys, right along with his first potion of clw, magic weapon and bless weapon.
DyloniusFunk 06-05-07, 02:04 PM	Sounds like the other guy is metagaming, he made PC specifically top screw with the OP's one weakness.
Tenadros 06-05-07, 02:20 PM	You could always buy a helm made of a thin sheet of lead. Pretty heavy, and probably lethal in the long run due to carcinogens or something simillar, but sometimes you have to make the little sacrifices in life.
Tempest Stormwind 06-05-07, 02:32 PM	Sounds like the other guy is metagaming, he made PC specifically top screw with the OP's one weakness. One weakness? Dude's got several. That's just the flashiest. And to be honest, in any 1v1 game, I'd always take a caster, even without knowledge of what the enemy was. Mindbender 1 / Mindsight is a sound choice for any wizard who can spare the skill points and the single feat needed to pull it off, as it means you'll never be surprised by melee characters and you get a free boost to your Fortitude save (see why I complain about mage PrCs?). He could easily have build that character without knowing he's going up against a rogue.
psionichamster 06-05-07, 02:35 PM	I'm playing a solo campaign, where I am a Tiefling Rogue 5/Swashbuckler 1/Invisible Blade 4. My DM has introduced another PC into the game, who plays for the opposite side... he says that our actions will probably influence each other, but we're unlikely to meet that often. He then suggested that we might fight at some point.<snip> What exactly can I do?... :confused: change sides...is there a reason ur in a solo game, other than unavailabiity of players? if so, get the mindbender PC's player in w/ you and the DM, and go sick. he gets some meat shieldy goodness, you get some mind-controlly goodness, and his thrall, and the DM gets some semblance of a party. if you take leadership, get a cleric, you are all set. -the hamster (seriously, you're a rogue/swash/invisible blade....think pirate, not PC)
Leo 06-05-07, 03:13 PM	Well, I went to checkbetter and the half golem is from MMII, and also much more expensive than I first tought(around 10000 gold plus ep just for the cheapest). Too bad. Only way I see you're geting out of this is finding a vampire and have him bite you or offering yourself as wizard as a test subject so he makes you an half goem for free, either gaining undead or construct traits and becoming mind affecting immune. Or burn up you gold in potions oof protection from evil like the guy above said.
bobothechimp 06-05-07, 04:50 PM	Play to your strengths in a way that will not allow him to access your weaknesses. Cut his throat while he sleeps.
Tempest Stormwind 06-05-07, 05:05 PM	Play to your strengths in a way that will not allow him to access your weaknesses. Cut his throat while he sleeps. Mindsight. Even if he's asleep, it's still functioning, much like his ears. Unlike Listen, however, he doesn't need to make a check to notice something within the range -- he automatically does. The rules don't cover this situation, but it certainly seems like if he took mindsight, he's be woken up by your approach just as if he'd made the listen check to detect you. (Leo: For the record, the cheapest way to become undead is the necropolitan (Libris Mortis). It also doesn't come with some harsh level adjustment, although you do lose a level when you first become one.)
Archtyrant Terevoth 06-05-07, 05:09 PM	Mindsight. Even if he's asleep, it's still functioning, much like his ears. Unlike Listen, however, he doesn't need to make a check to notice something within the range -- he automatically does. The rules don't cover this situation, but it certainly seems like if he took mindsight, he's be woken up by your approach just as if he'd made the listen check to detect you. Well first, do we even know if he has mindsight? I never saw the OP actually confirm that he does. Second, whether mindsight works while asleep is arguable, as you can't use telepathy in your sleep, so one could easily say that you no longer fulfill the feat prereqs while sleeping.
Wonton2006 06-05-07, 07:18 PM	Hey, thanks for the numerous responses... Protection from Evil is simple, cheap, and effective... I like that. A lot. I'll have to look into it. The Disobedience spell from CS is also quite nice... if I can somehow get it cast on me, that'd be amazing. I liked the idea about changing sides... simple, yet effective. And I really don't see why not. :D Except, of course, if he permanently enslaves me, in which case I can be on his side AND under his complete control. :( I'm also curious as to why everyone is referring to me as the 'meat shield'. With 57 hit points, and AC 18, I'm not exactly a TANK for ECL 11. I might be able to secure an NPC to aid me... he might even be a wizard or something. So, I guess, with my complete lack of knowledge as to what's gonna happen next, there's not much I can do until I actually know the situation better... we were supposed to play today... but I guess that got lost in translation.
NightBreeze 06-05-07, 07:55 PM	Potions of protection from blahblah. No compulsion effects.
Guardian Phoenix 06-05-07, 08:48 PM	Hey, thanks for the numerous responses... Protection from Evil is simple, cheap, and effective... I like that. A lot. I'll have to look into it. The Disobedience spell from CS is also quite nice... if I can somehow get it cast on me, that'd be amazing. I liked the idea about changing sides... simple, yet effective. And I really don't see why not. :D Except, of course, if he permanently enslaves me, in which case I can be on his side AND under his complete control. :( Make it gosh darn clear to the DM that if that happens, you consider the character to no longer be your PC. It is at that point an NPC cohort of the other character. Maybe top it off by giving the other guy a firm handshake and congratulate him on his victory then ask if you could have a rematch or if he'd like to play again in some other game.
Dawnshadow 06-05-07, 08:55 PM	When permanently enslaved, the correct response is to hand over the character sheet, and make a new one. With a high will save and short temper with regards to losing control of your character. I personally recommend knowing disintegrate for those occurrences, or paying a caster to create an item with contingent "Someone casts an enchantment(charm) spell on me-- disintegrate them". No, I have no idea if that's technically legal. It's about as fair as charming/dominating a PC though.
Wonton2006 06-05-07, 11:22 PM	It's not that the DM's a jackass... He's just fairly inexperienced, which means he often thinks I have what it takes to overcome a certain challenge, when I really don't. Though in this case I guess even he can see I'm kind of screwed. The other player, though... I honestly don't really know him, so... I have no clue as to how morally he plays the game. I know that if the worst DOES happen, though, I'll probably end that campaign for good. Then again, it's likely that realizing his mistake post-factum, the DM will just pull a deus ex machina and somehow make me free again. :rolleyes:
Taureus_Drakken 06-06-07, 01:22 AM	If this guy does end up with your character, PM me and I can send you a nice character concept. If nothing else, get a potion of Protection from XXXX...seems like evil would make the most sense.
Genetic 06-06-07, 02:00 PM	Mindsight? Doesn't that only really work like blindsense? He'd still have to roll a miss chance with a spell wouldn't he? At least spells requiring touch attacks or ones that require a specific target.
Tempest Stormwind 06-06-07, 02:21 PM	Mindsight? Doesn't that only really work like blindsense? He'd still have to roll a miss chance with a spell wouldn't he? At least spells requiring touch attacks or ones that require a specific target. It's more useful as a detector than a precision targeting system ("Someone is within 100' feet of me, prepare for battle. It's an outsider with 15 Intelligence right THERE, although I can't see him.") . He can tell exactly where you are but since he can't see you (without using other spells to help with that) he'll suffer a miss chance on all attack rolls.
Yokomohoyo 06-07-07, 02:30 AM	It's more useful as a detector than a precision targeting system ("Someone is within 100' feet of me, prepare for battle. It's an outsider with 15 Intelligence right THERE, although I can't see him.") . He can tell exactly where you are but since he can't see you (without using other spells to help with that) he'll suffer a miss chance on all attack rolls. And that is resolved with AOE attacks... Fireball!!
Varia 06-07-07, 07:05 AM	Not that its in your current career plans or anything, but a church inquisitor is immune to charms and compulsions by lvl 5... :P And I'd agree that the mindsight thing doesnt work while the character is asleep. If it automatically woke the guy up every time someone approached within 100' then you could deal with him easily by just hiring bums and street urchins to walk past the inn where he's sleeping every 15 minutes or so till his head explodes from fatigue. :P Even without someone deliberately setting something like that up, in even a modestly sized village he'd get woken up too often by the normal passing nighttime traffic to get any real sleep. No sleep till the bar is closed for the night, woken early by the farmers bringing produce in to market, the bakers making the mornings bread etc, and all through the night by streetcleaners, guard patrols, miscellaneous people out late, owls, raccoons, skunks, stray dogs, stray cats, mice, and even the occasional naughty people out on naughty business. Nope, it seems obvious to me that mindsight cant work while asleep.
TheDragonmaster 06-07-07, 08:04 AM	Get a Continuous item of Mind Blank (Costs a couple of hundreds of thousands of gold)... Get the money by doing either mongo-tricks like the Flesh to Salt/Cow trick; buying iron pots, melting them, and selling them back; or by doing some serious heists, like this classic one: Walk into a bar, approach a (rich) group at a table, and present this wager: "I bet you [X gp] that I can pis* all over the bar, and not only will the bartender not be angry, he will actually laugh at me!" Then, if they accept it (and your DM is either not aware of the idea, or goes on with it) approach the bartender with this offer: "I bet you [X/2 gp] that I can place this glass on the bardisk, walk three steps away from it, pis* in it and not spill a single drop." Seriously, if your offer is large enough, he will go for it. It's the barwench who will clean it all up, so, hey! You have no chance to win that bet (be a bit drunk as well). Now, place the glass on the bardisk, pis* all over the bar, on the floor, bardisk, even the bartender if he is in a good mood, and admit your failure. Then go to the table where you presented your first bet, collect your money, split it with the bartender, and walk out. If your approached party of rich people was rich enough, even they will be happy, for the cheap entertainment. Be creative, get the cash, and hopefully, you won't encounter the Mindbender until you have the Mind Blank.
Potato Weasel 06-07-07, 08:21 AM	Do one of the more usefull classes for fighter types with low will saves- occult slayer.