Good career path for a Bugbear [Archive] - Wizards Community

Good career path for a Bugbear [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DyloniusFunk
05-26-07, 09:23 AM For my next game I've decided to play a Bugbear. My DM is pretty lenient and i figured since it's only a LA +1 i'd give it a try since i've never played a monster character. I was just looking for advice on how to build this character. I'll have 4 character levels since we're starting at level 5. I'm thinking of going Barbarian but any ideas on how to go from there is appreciated. As is any suggestions on role playing, good magic item selection, etc. Also i'm wondering about this...

Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot.

How many ranks does a monster with no class levels get? Do i consider it a first level character and use the regular level+3?
Doleth
05-26-07, 10:06 AM You'll only have 1 class level as a 5 level character if you make a bugbear, because of the 3 humanoid level, and you can have 7 rank in your skill like any level 4 character, since skill depend on the number of Hit Dice. Another thing, remember that bugbear are not less intelligent than human, so you don't have to play him dumber than you would if he was a human barbarian.
Kouk
05-26-07, 11:07 AM Racial Hit Dice: A bugbear begins with three levels of humanoid, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +1.

Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot.

So at minimum a Bugbear starts with 4 x (2 + Int) at level 1, plus 1 x (2 + Int) at level 2, plus 1 x (2 + Int) at level 3 for a total of 6 x (2 + Int).

The 3 HD plus the 1 LA make ECL 4, so yes you only have one character level available. ECL is LA + racial HD.
DyloniusFunk
05-26-07, 11:45 AM I forgot about the Humanoid HD. Do you think it's still worth playing? We don't really have a lot of optomisers in the group so i'm not worried about that i'm just wondering if i'll end up gimping myself. Well i should be ok since I'm not losing caster levels.
MCage
05-26-07, 02:48 PM "Gimped" is a moot point at these lvls, as long as you RP is well and have a fun time playing him it doesnt matter if you can huck a hellfire ball'o'doom
Apupunchau
05-26-07, 03:01 PM If you are using more then just the base book I think good Role Playing opportunity might be a bugbear spirit shaman. Also look into the ranger to animal lord PrC combo. Or if it's just base book a Bugbear Druid might be fun to play. With bugbears a lot of people go the aggressive fighter or barbarian route but something about a natural if slightly savage bugbear calls to me. You may also want to hink about a Bugbear monk or sorcerer.
MagicMouth
05-26-07, 04:19 PM A Rogue with a more brutish focus would also be a viable option. They do get bonuses to all physical ability scores, +4 Move Silently, and Natural Armor.

Then of course we have the classes from Tome of Battle, if you have access to that one. A nice detail about that system is that you count all other classes other than the main martial adepts as adding 1/2 to the effective initiator level.
A Bugbear Swordsage 1, for example, initiates maneuvers like a Level 2 Swordsage (IL = 1 for Swordsage + 1 for half the Bugbear HD, rounded down).
This makes it much easier and effective to multiclass ToB characters compared to spellcasters.
DyloniusFunk
05-26-07, 05:23 PM One thig i forgot to mention is the DM told us we can have one 18 and two 17's to sue to make our characters. So i was thinking of going 18 str 17 con and maybe 17 CHA for a barb who has practiced his diplomacy and leadership so as to take over his tribe one day.
Kouk
05-26-07, 08:23 PM Yeah... I would have to say a Barbarian won't get the most mileage out of CHA. You don't have to be diplomatic to run a tribe of savage humanoids; brains and/or brawn work best.
sabrewolf
05-26-07, 11:22 PM Considering that not rarely they reach a position of leader among lesser goblinoids, a raging barbarian is not the only choice (and i think not the best choice as well). Such characters would also be fighters or clerics (or sometimes druids)...

Of course one can allways begin one way and multiclass afterwards.. (reflex of a barbaric upbringing, maybe :P )

CHa is a good stat for a leader, but beyound that, hardly of use for fighters and barbarians.. ..In the end, the build is more a reflex of what your vision of this character is. You already got a bugbear who wishes to become a leader.. now just need to think on how...

Good luck on there.. and take care..
pres_man
05-27-07, 01:16 AM I would take barbarian for a few levels (to make up for the lost level hp wise) and then multiclass into rogue (thug type). I would avoid spellcaster classes, unless you are just wanting to get a few extra spells (considering you'll be four levels behind). You might also consider instead half-ogre (LA +2, no racial HD).
Otto the Bugbear
05-27-07, 08:59 PM For my next game I've decided to play a Bugbear. My DM is pretty lenient and i figured since it's only a LA +1 i'd give it a try since i've never played a monster character. I was just looking for advice on how to build this character. I'll have 4 character levels since we're starting at level 5. I'm thinking of going Barbarian but any ideas on how to go from there is appreciated. As is any suggestions on role playing, good magic item selection, etc. Also i'm wondering about this...

Good choice. :tie:

I forgot about the Humanoid HD. Do you think it's still worth playing?

If your choice is Bugbear, always.

One thig i forgot to mention is the DM told us we can have one 18 and two 17's to sue to make our characters. So i was thinking of going 18 str 17 con and maybe 17 CHA for a barb who has practiced his diplomacy and leadership so as to take over his tribe one day.

You will be a god among insects.

Take levels of Warblade or Crusader (Tome of Battle). For becoming the leader of your tribe, I'd go with Crusader so you can get White Raven Tactics. They also have full BAB, to help you out there.

If you don't have ToB, go with a class or some combination that nets you a good attack routine and stealth. I'd say go with a combination of ranger & rogue.

ECL 5
Str: 18 +4 racial = 23 (+6)
Dex: 17 +2 racial = 19 (+4)
Con: 17 +2 racial +1 level = 20 (+5)
Int: 2nd priority
Wis: 1st priority
Cha: 3rd priority

Don't worry about the Charisma. The other bugbears will respect and follow strength, stealth and murderous intent.
MagickHobo
05-27-07, 09:39 PM Don't worry about the Charisma. The other bugbears will respect and follow strength, stealth and murderous intent.

And you could always get one of those henchmen types to do all the talking for you.

Also, seconding Warblade if you have Tome of Battle, focus on Tigerclaw for the feral barbarian feel.
trapspringer
05-27-07, 09:51 PM I have a rule of thumb for character creation: 1 weird thing at a time.

Try not to overwhelm your DM or yourself with a hundred different variant classes and bizarre races. You're running a bugbear with a bunch of humanoid HD already. Keep it simple from there.

It's a very viable character, yes. As has been mentioned, rogue has good synergy with bugbear, especially if you focus on the killing part of killing and sneaking. The diverse skills and numerous skill points will land you in a position to lead effectively ('cause charisma doesn't mean jack **** when it comes to diplomacy. Everything has synergy there).

The humanoid hit die aren't as crippling as you may think. You've got good class skills and you still get to pick your feats for those levels. Depending on the direction you go in, you may find yourself an unusually adept secondary melee fighter.

You probably want to avoid spell casting classes because of the hit to caster level.
DyloniusFunk
05-28-07, 02:26 PM Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone. I think i might go witht e Wilderness Rouge variant. It seems like a good match with a bugbear character.

Rogue Variant: Wilderness Rogue

The wilderness rogue prefers to put her skills to use in the great outdoors, rather than in cramped alleys and dungeon corridors. In many ways, she is similar to the traditional ranger, though with less combat savvy and with none of the ranger's divine link to the natural world.
Class Skills

Remove the following rogue class skills from the wilderness rogue's class skill list: Appraise, Diplomacy, Decipher Script, Forgery, and Gather Information.

Add the following skills to the wilderness rogue's class skill list: Handle Animal, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Ride, and Survival.
Class Features

The wilderness rogue has all the standard rogue class features, except as noted below.
Special Abilities

Add woodland stride (as the 7th-level ranger ability), camouflage (as the 13th-level ranger ability) and hide in plain sight (as the 17th-level ranger ability, requires the rogue to already have the camouflage ability) to the list of special abilities that can be chosen by the wilderness rogue.

I thought there was a spell-less Ranger variant but it wasn't in the SRD. But i like this idea, a rouge who lives in the outdoors. But i still have a couple of mechanical issues.

1.Do the 6 (2+Int Mod) skill points i get for my racial HD have to be spent on racial class skills or can i spend them on any skill?

2. How do i calculate my starting wealth? Will i have the wealth of a first level character?
Drag0nUL
05-28-07, 02:50 PM To answer your questions:
1. You can spend those skill points on any skills you want, but only your racial skills are 'class skills' for you(the rest would cost you 2 points to advance the skill with 1 point).
2. Your character is ECL 5, so he has the same wealth of any 5th level character.
As a suggestion: I think the idea of wilderness rogue fits the character's theme very well, but you might consider adding a few levels of barbarian of other more melee oriented class.
MagickHobo
05-28-07, 03:02 PM I thought there was a spell-less Ranger variant but it wasn't in the SRD. But i like this idea, a rouge who lives in the outdoors. But i still have a couple of mechanical issues.

The spell-less ranger variant is in the complete warrior.
Johnny_Angel
05-28-07, 03:05 PM Bugbear Bard

...with ranks in "perform: professional wrestling promos"
trapspringer
05-28-07, 07:36 PM The spell-less ranger variant is in the complete warrior.

That's the good one. There's another one in dungeonscape that's also pretty workable.

The former grants you some movement bonuses IIRC. The latter will hook you up with some feats.

Incidentally wilderness rogue would be a lot more fun to play 'cause he'd be packin' some diverse abilities. It sucks to say "Ok, y'all, I'll just sit this one out 'cause all I can do is kill stuff and follow footprints in the mud."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DyloniusFunk 05-26-07, 09:23 AM	For my next game I've decided to play a Bugbear. My DM is pretty lenient and i figured since it's only a LA +1 i'd give it a try since i've never played a monster character. I was just looking for advice on how to build this character. I'll have 4 character levels since we're starting at level 5. I'm thinking of going Barbarian but any ideas on how to go from there is appreciated. As is any suggestions on role playing, good magic item selection, etc. Also i'm wondering about this... Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot. How many ranks does a monster with no class levels get? Do i consider it a first level character and use the regular level+3?
Doleth 05-26-07, 10:06 AM	You'll only have 1 class level as a 5 level character if you make a bugbear, because of the 3 humanoid level, and you can have 7 rank in your skill like any level 4 character, since skill depend on the number of Hit Dice. Another thing, remember that bugbear are not less intelligent than human, so you don't have to play him dumber than you would if he was a human barbarian.
Kouk 05-26-07, 11:07 AM	Racial Hit Dice: A bugbear begins with three levels of humanoid, which provide 3d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +2, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +1, Ref +3, and Will +1. Racial Skills: A bugbear’s humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 6 × (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot. So at minimum a Bugbear starts with 4 x (2 + Int) at level 1, plus 1 x (2 + Int) at level 2, plus 1 x (2 + Int) at level 3 for a total of 6 x (2 + Int). The 3 HD plus the 1 LA make ECL 4, so yes you only have one character level available. ECL is LA + racial HD.
DyloniusFunk 05-26-07, 11:45 AM	I forgot about the Humanoid HD. Do you think it's still worth playing? We don't really have a lot of optomisers in the group so i'm not worried about that i'm just wondering if i'll end up gimping myself. Well i should be ok since I'm not losing caster levels.
MCage 05-26-07, 02:48 PM	"Gimped" is a moot point at these lvls, as long as you RP is well and have a fun time playing him it doesnt matter if you can huck a hellfire ball'o'doom
Apupunchau 05-26-07, 03:01 PM	If you are using more then just the base book I think good Role Playing opportunity might be a bugbear spirit shaman. Also look into the ranger to animal lord PrC combo. Or if it's just base book a Bugbear Druid might be fun to play. With bugbears a lot of people go the aggressive fighter or barbarian route but something about a natural if slightly savage bugbear calls to me. You may also want to hink about a Bugbear monk or sorcerer.
MagicMouth 05-26-07, 04:19 PM	A Rogue with a more brutish focus would also be a viable option. They do get bonuses to all physical ability scores, +4 Move Silently, and Natural Armor. Then of course we have the classes from Tome of Battle, if you have access to that one. A nice detail about that system is that you count all other classes other than the main martial adepts as adding 1/2 to the effective initiator level. A Bugbear Swordsage 1, for example, initiates maneuvers like a Level 2 Swordsage (IL = 1 for Swordsage + 1 for half the Bugbear HD, rounded down). This makes it much easier and effective to multiclass ToB characters compared to spellcasters.
DyloniusFunk 05-26-07, 05:23 PM	One thig i forgot to mention is the DM told us we can have one 18 and two 17's to sue to make our characters. So i was thinking of going 18 str 17 con and maybe 17 CHA for a barb who has practiced his diplomacy and leadership so as to take over his tribe one day.
Kouk 05-26-07, 08:23 PM	Yeah... I would have to say a Barbarian won't get the most mileage out of CHA. You don't have to be diplomatic to run a tribe of savage humanoids; brains and/or brawn work best.
sabrewolf 05-26-07, 11:22 PM	Considering that not rarely they reach a position of leader among lesser goblinoids, a raging barbarian is not the only choice (and i think not the best choice as well). Such characters would also be fighters or clerics (or sometimes druids)... Of course one can allways begin one way and multiclass afterwards.. (reflex of a barbaric upbringing, maybe :P ) CHa is a good stat for a leader, but beyound that, hardly of use for fighters and barbarians.. ..In the end, the build is more a reflex of what your vision of this character is. You already got a bugbear who wishes to become a leader.. now just need to think on how... Good luck on there.. and take care..
pres_man 05-27-07, 01:16 AM	I would take barbarian for a few levels (to make up for the lost level hp wise) and then multiclass into rogue (thug type). I would avoid spellcaster classes, unless you are just wanting to get a few extra spells (considering you'll be four levels behind). You might also consider instead half-ogre (LA +2, no racial HD).
Otto the Bugbear 05-27-07, 08:59 PM	For my next game I've decided to play a Bugbear. My DM is pretty lenient and i figured since it's only a LA +1 i'd give it a try since i've never played a monster character. I was just looking for advice on how to build this character. I'll have 4 character levels since we're starting at level 5. I'm thinking of going Barbarian but any ideas on how to go from there is appreciated. As is any suggestions on role playing, good magic item selection, etc. Also i'm wondering about this... Good choice. :tie: I forgot about the Humanoid HD. Do you think it's still worth playing? If your choice is Bugbear, always. One thig i forgot to mention is the DM told us we can have one 18 and two 17's to sue to make our characters. So i was thinking of going 18 str 17 con and maybe 17 CHA for a barb who has practiced his diplomacy and leadership so as to take over his tribe one day. You will be a god among insects. Take levels of Warblade or Crusader (Tome of Battle). For becoming the leader of your tribe, I'd go with Crusader so you can get White Raven Tactics. They also have full BAB, to help you out there. If you don't have ToB, go with a class or some combination that nets you a good attack routine and stealth. I'd say go with a combination of ranger & rogue. ECL 5 Str: 18 +4 racial = 23 (+6) Dex: 17 +2 racial = 19 (+4) Con: 17 +2 racial +1 level = 20 (+5) Int: 2nd priority Wis: 1st priority Cha: 3rd priority Don't worry about the Charisma. The other bugbears will respect and follow strength, stealth and murderous intent.
MagickHobo 05-27-07, 09:39 PM	Don't worry about the Charisma. The other bugbears will respect and follow strength, stealth and murderous intent. And you could always get one of those henchmen types to do all the talking for you. Also, seconding Warblade if you have Tome of Battle, focus on Tigerclaw for the feral barbarian feel.
trapspringer 05-27-07, 09:51 PM	I have a rule of thumb for character creation: 1 weird thing at a time. Try not to overwhelm your DM or yourself with a hundred different variant classes and bizarre races. You're running a bugbear with a bunch of humanoid HD already. Keep it simple from there. It's a very viable character, yes. As has been mentioned, rogue has good synergy with bugbear, especially if you focus on the killing part of killing and sneaking. The diverse skills and numerous skill points will land you in a position to lead effectively ('cause charisma doesn't mean jack **** when it comes to diplomacy. Everything has synergy there). The humanoid hit die aren't as crippling as you may think. You've got good class skills and you still get to pick your feats for those levels. Depending on the direction you go in, you may find yourself an unusually adept secondary melee fighter. You probably want to avoid spell casting classes because of the hit to caster level.
DyloniusFunk 05-28-07, 02:26 PM	Thanks for all the helpful advice everyone. I think i might go witht e Wilderness Rouge variant. It seems like a good match with a bugbear character. Rogue Variant: Wilderness Rogue The wilderness rogue prefers to put her skills to use in the great outdoors, rather than in cramped alleys and dungeon corridors. In many ways, she is similar to the traditional ranger, though with less combat savvy and with none of the ranger's divine link to the natural world. Class Skills Remove the following rogue class skills from the wilderness rogue's class skill list: Appraise, Diplomacy, Decipher Script, Forgery, and Gather Information. Add the following skills to the wilderness rogue's class skill list: Handle Animal, Knowledge (geography), Knowledge (nature), Ride, and Survival. Class Features The wilderness rogue has all the standard rogue class features, except as noted below. Special Abilities Add woodland stride (as the 7th-level ranger ability), camouflage (as the 13th-level ranger ability) and hide in plain sight (as the 17th-level ranger ability, requires the rogue to already have the camouflage ability) to the list of special abilities that can be chosen by the wilderness rogue. I thought there was a spell-less Ranger variant but it wasn't in the SRD. But i like this idea, a rouge who lives in the outdoors. But i still have a couple of mechanical issues. 1.Do the 6 (2+Int Mod) skill points i get for my racial HD have to be spent on racial class skills or can i spend them on any skill? 2. How do i calculate my starting wealth? Will i have the wealth of a first level character?
Drag0nUL 05-28-07, 02:50 PM	To answer your questions: 1. You can spend those skill points on any skills you want, but only your racial skills are 'class skills' for you(the rest would cost you 2 points to advance the skill with 1 point). 2. Your character is ECL 5, so he has the same wealth of any 5th level character. As a suggestion: I think the idea of wilderness rogue fits the character's theme very well, but you might consider adding a few levels of barbarian of other more melee oriented class.
MagickHobo 05-28-07, 03:02 PM	I thought there was a spell-less Ranger variant but it wasn't in the SRD. But i like this idea, a rouge who lives in the outdoors. But i still have a couple of mechanical issues. The spell-less ranger variant is in the complete warrior.
Johnny_Angel 05-28-07, 03:05 PM	Bugbear Bard ...with ranks in "perform: professional wrestling promos"
trapspringer 05-28-07, 07:36 PM	The spell-less ranger variant is in the complete warrior. That's the good one. There's another one in dungeonscape that's also pretty workable. The former grants you some movement bonuses IIRC. The latter will hook you up with some feats. Incidentally wilderness rogue would be a lot more fun to play 'cause he'd be packin' some diverse abilities. It sucks to say "Ok, y'all, I'll just sit this one out 'cause all I can do is kill stuff and follow footprints in the mud."