Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grod_The_Giant 12-17-06, 09:02 PM	ok, my next game is going to be a gestalt game. I was thinking about being a human Warmage/Barbarian combo. Is this a decent combo? first level feats: combat casting and that feat from CArc that lets you ignore ASF from heavier armor.
Merryadocc 12-17-06, 09:22 PM	You can't cast spells while raging. There is a feat in Dragon 310 that allows you to cast quickened spells while raging but only quickened spells. I personally think that Wizard/Ranger is a good Gestalt combo, especially if you are an elf who takes the elf ranger and elf wizard racial substitution levels from Races of the Wild. Lots of skill points and good places to spend them. All saves are good and full base atack bonus. Other wise if you have your heart set on your build go for it! :)
claypigeons 12-17-06, 10:15 PM	ok, my next game is going to be a gestalt game. I was thinking about being a human Warmage/Barbarian combo. Is this a decent combo? first level feats: combat casting and that feat from CArc that lets you ignore ASF from heavier armor. I'd say no. Unless you can start with amazing stats. A barbarian (generally) needs decent str, good con, a respectable dex... at the cost (usually) of the mental stats. With warmage, you need a good charisma, and at least some intelligence if you want to make use of warmage edge... wisdom is still a dump stat. And, as stated before, you cant cast spells while raging.
periscope 12-17-06, 10:33 PM	I got a crusader/incarnate (the dm ruled that you dont have to be neutral and you pick a path that doesnt conflict with your alignment so if you chaotic good you cant take the path of destruction or precision). The one that lets me spit acid removed the need for a ranged weapon in most cases, you have a full bab and good hit die, 2 good saves, maneuvers that rock (I swear my dm almost started crying when he understood that my aura [path of protection]+magic full plate and extreme shield+incarnate avatar+crusader healiness= juggernaught:D ). I swear I never killed so many enemies in one session. It was hilarious! :D the airstep sandals keep my maneuverability up and all other sorts of good stuff. Try a barbarian/incarnate. Watch the look on the DMs face when your barbarian runs up with the airstep sandals to the flying drow wizard:D . If you dont have access to the MoI book, try a barbarian/druid. really tough on the alignment but mighty+changeshape into the tarrasque=good times;). A barbarian/cleric or druid could act as the shaman of the tribe so you have fluff there and wisdom is the mental stat that barbarians tend to put the most stock in. Barbarian/bard could be good since I think they ruled that you can use inspire courage or heroics while raging. Take perform warcry and have an excuse to roar at the DM! If you have access to BoED, take the words of creation feat and you have a holy avenger deal going.
Animae_Draconum 12-17-06, 11:14 PM	Rightous Rage from BoED will let you retain your mental faculties AKA spellcasting even while raging. other than that DO NOT GO WARMAGE!!!! Sorcerer or Wizard (if you relaly know what youre doing) are better choices for blaster characters That being said blasters are usually weak anyhow. having a few evocation spells is ok but dont limit yourself to beign a 1 trick pony. Wizard will allow for more versatility but I think sorcerer will fit the character concept more and overall aid you to greater benefit if you have a few choice spells on your list... These are in no particular order Truestrike Wraithstrike Nerveskitter Heroics Ruin Delver's Fortune Tenser's Transformation Orb of *insert element/sound/force* Benign Transposition Bite of the Were*insert animal* Translocation Trick Starmantle Arcane Fusion Greater Arcane Fusion A_D
danielinthewolvesden 12-18-06, 02:27 AM	Here's something fun- pick two of the weaker, less played classes. Ninja/Samurai. Healer/Scout. Spirit Shaman/Bbn. And so forth. Have some fun with it.
claypigeons 12-18-06, 04:38 AM	Here's something fun- pick two of the weaker, less played classes. Ninja/Samurai. Healer/Scout. Spirit Shaman/Bbn. And so forth. Have some fun with it. It's not really fun though. In a normal campaign, just one of the above classes has enough suck for everyone. In a gestalt game, these guys dont bring double the suck. They probably bring like 4 times the suck... that's a lotta suck.... Gestalt is supposed to raise your power a bit over what a regular campaign would be (it doesnt double it.. you still only have a set amount of actions.. it's just that with gestalt, you can do a variety of things, or you can specialize and do that one thing way better)**. Combining 2 weak classes is basically the opposite of what you would want to do. If you wouldnt play it by itself, dont play it in gestalt... ** Also remember that unless your DM is throwing balance to the wind, your enemies will be gestalted as well.
Elemental_Elf 12-18-06, 05:00 AM	I always liked the idea of being a True Neutral Warmage/Dread Necromancer with the Arcane Disciple Feat, taking the Stone Giant God and his Healing domain for a whirl. It’s not really a super uber awesome combination but it fills many different needs and, IMO, wouldn't become boring as you could simple change your style of play at the drop of a hat. One minute you could be healing your allies, the next rebuking Undead in an attempt to forge an army and the next incinerating each rebuked undead simply because you can. :D Versatility breeds fun! :D
Hack and Smasher 12-18-06, 08:37 AM	anything/cleric is usally recommended for gestalt since cleric is unverisally good and useful. If you can't find a god which you like make one up and claim it's local deity.
xaqariah 12-18-06, 08:47 AM	:cheer: I'm rooting for the Paladin/Monk! :angel: :cheer: (or maybe Ranger/Monk? :angelhide)
OravennasBrother 12-18-06, 09:33 AM	IF you are primarily interested in the d12 HD and good fortitude saves from the barbarian, then it might be decent (as long as you can maintain a chaotic alignment). But without an impressive array of attributes using Rage/melee and Warmage spells effectively could prove difficult.
Kitaki 12-18-06, 01:05 PM	You want something that will give you all 3 saves a good progression (preferred) and use mostly the same abilities (Srt, Dex, etc)
green_yawgmoth 12-18-06, 01:11 PM	Druid/monk. Wis bonus to AC, which is your spellcasting stat, and going bear form with flurry is just sick. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Archmage Atrus 12-18-06, 03:24 PM	Druid/monk. Wis bonus to AC, which is your spellcasting stat, and going bear form with flurry is just sick. I'm pretty sure you can't flurry with non-unarmed strike natural weapons. (IE, you don't get five different Bite attacks as a bear.) I researched this the other day 'cause I had the same thought, though. I did come up with Monk/Cleric as the greatest AC combo in the history of Gestalt though. Unless your campaign allows Psionics, in which case you should see if you can squeeze some Psion levels in there.
Fargren 12-18-06, 04:55 PM	I'm pretty sure you can't flurry with non-unarmed strike natural weapons. (IE, you don't get five different Bite attacks as a bear.) No, but you can do all your normal attacks, and then an extra bite/claw/wathever.
green_yawgmoth 12-18-06, 05:07 PM	I'm pretty sure you can't flurry with non-unarmed strike natural weapons. (IE, you don't get five different Bite attacks as a bear.) I researched this the other day 'cause I had the same thought, though. I did come up with Monk/Cleric as the greatest AC combo in the history of Gestalt though. Unless your campaign allows Psionics, in which case you should see if you can squeeze some Psion levels in there.I was thinking more along the lines of "hey bears have a 27 str, that's a pretty nice start for a beatdown". http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
zzakk2to2 12-19-06, 04:52 PM	half-dragon (insert spellcaster of choice)/monk the half-dragon part has claws for the flurry and the spellcaster to add enhancements. a good one is sorcerer because it has spontanius casting and with spells like bear strength or such to back up your attacks. the H-D would provide a breath attack wings and some resistence to a certain energy type
Hella_Tellah 12-19-06, 05:38 PM	The greatest gestalt combo is Warblade/Beguiler. Thread over.
zzakk2to2 12-19-06, 05:52 PM	thread open! why is it the best? explane to us so we can tear it apart.
ravenshrike 12-21-06, 01:00 PM	It gives you a reason to take Combat expertise and improved feint. Feint as a swift action, cast at extra DC and spell resistance bonus, use displacement, Mirror image, greater, glibness, and see invisiblity and you have a melee who can pwn anything except a 4-7 level higher caster by about 4th level. Facing your average monster, forget it. Once you hit epic levels, take whatever feat allows you 10th level spells, cast a heightened shades and you can with Miracle, a 9th level evocation spell, cast any spell in the game as a shadow version. Other good combos, Duskblade/Wizard Duskblade/Scout Duskblade/Beguiler. Warblade/Scout works as well.
danielinthewolvesden 12-21-06, 02:38 PM	It's not really fun though. In a normal campaign, just one of the above classes has enough suck for everyone. In a gestalt game, these guys dont bring double the suck. They probably bring like 4 times the suck... that's a lotta suck.... Gestalt is supposed to raise your power a bit over what a regular campaign would be (it doesnt double it.. you still only have a set amount of actions.. it's just that with gestalt, you can do a variety of things, or you can specialize and do that one thing way better)**. Combining 2 weak classes is basically the opposite of what you would want to do. If you wouldnt play it by itself, dont play it in gestalt... ll. Well, let's remember a few things- comparitive "power" is often (at least around here) based upon highly artifical "one on one, one off, unlimited time to buff, arena battles". :rolleyes: These comparisons show the Druid to be #1,with the Cleric running a close second. IRL, no one wants to play a cleric.:weep: Have you actually played any of those "suck" classes for 10 levels? Oddly, I am now into my 19th level as a Healer (MH). Likely rated as the very worst "suck" class of all time. Everyone in my campaign- including the DM- considers my little halfling healer to be the most effective PC in the game. A campaign chock full of power gamers, and 8 or so players. Sure, some of those classes have a weakness- which can be counterbalanced by a strength from another class. In another campaign we found one combo to be very good- the Bbn/Rogue. Makes for a super-rogue that can afford to melee. We also found including a class that can heal makes the combo extra powerful. The question for the OP is thus: what form do you enjoy doing damage? Spells, archery, or melee?
Comus 12-21-06, 02:58 PM	Hm. I've never played Gestalt, but I suggest... Crusader/Cleric. Solves the old problem of finding time to heal allies in between smacking the enemies around, gives full BAB, and you've got all those nice buffs. Plus the two fit together well, roleplay-wise. Or... Druid/Psychic Warrior. Lots of feats, manifesting works when you're a bear (unless I'm mistaken), and you still get all the druid goodness. Or... Incarnate/Warlock. The ultimate in self-reliance. I'd suggest being Chaotic. Be a warforged, if possible.
Hella_Tellah 12-21-06, 03:24 PM	Beguiler gets you trapfinding, more spells known than a sorceror, full Int-based casting to ninth level, casting in light armor, 6+Int skills, and the two best stealth casting feats. Warblade is the best melee class, with full BAB, a d12 hit die, fighter feats, wonderful Int-based bonuses (synergy!) and the largest range of maneuvers. At level one, you can cast expeditious retreat on yourself for the buff to jump, then use the maneuver that allows you to use a jump check in lieu of an attack roll. You will be able to hit almost anything, and with a bonus to damage. You'll also have all the mind-controlling, charming-type spells, which are useful in combat and wonderful in social situations. Dominate Person alone will allow you to break your DM's game. Combining Beguiler and Warblade in a gestalt character will thus fulfill your party's needs for front-line damage dealer, skill/trapmonkey, and NPC interaction master. Later on, you may be able to take the Jade Phoenix prestige class to really get the most mileage out of the combo. The only difficulty will be convincing your DM to allow you to do something so horrifically broken.
claypigeons 12-21-06, 05:58 PM	Beguiler gets you trapfinding, more spells known than a sorceror, full Int-based casting to ninth level, casting in light armor, 6+Int skills, and the two best stealth casting feats. Warblade is the best melee class, with full BAB, a d12 hit die, fighter feats, wonderful Int-based bonuses (synergy!) and the largest range of maneuvers. Swordsage gets more manuevers known and readied. The warblade's recovery mechanic kicks the crap out of the swordsage's though. Combining Beguiler and Warblade in a gestalt character will thus fulfill your party's needs for front-line damage dealer, skill/trapmonkey, and NPC interaction master. Later on, you may be able to take the Jade Phoenix prestige class to really get the most mileage out of the combo. The only difficulty will be convincing your DM to allow you to do something so horrifically broken. I'd consider the Jade Phoenix mage a dual progression PrC (like eldritch knight), and thus disallow it. But if you can get your DM to go for, go right ahead. It would be amazing. :D
zzakk2to2 12-22-06, 07:36 PM	if you want magic and psi these are combinations based on what they get bonus spells/power points (i only have the core books) Psion/wizard inteligent psychic warrior/cleric wisdom psychic warrior/druid psychic warrior/paladin psychic warrior/ranger wilder/sorcer charisma wilder/bard i like the wild/sorc and the psion/wiz. i wish that the psion was charisma because the sorc and the psion are my favorites but unless i get a double 18 roll i would have to down play one of them.
jennibert 12-22-06, 07:50 PM	The gestalt game I'm in features a warlock/scout who took feats to allow him to tack his skirmish onto his Eldritch blast. The damage levels are just insane as long as he moves....which he always does. He doesn't even bother to carry weapons, and with fell flight has great ease of movement. I've been having fun with my favored soul/sorceror also. Spells out the wazoo, and as long as you don't take any favored soul spells that require DCs, they rely on the same stats. Our wilder/knight and bard/paladin have been enjoying their characters too....
Tenebrous_Sage 12-22-06, 09:09 PM	When in doubt, check the CharOp boards.
hunterc311 12-22-06, 09:56 PM	ok, my next game is going to be a gestalt game. I was thinking about being a human Warmage/Barbarian combo. Is this a decent combo? first level feats: combat casting and that feat from CArc that lets you ignore ASF from heavier armor. Not to stray from your initial question, like most everyone else did in this thread, Warmage/Barbarian is in fact a good combo, because while you can't cast spells while raging for your first 4 levels, you can then start the Rage Mage PrC and have the best of both worlds in a big and explosive way. It's not an amazing combo, but I'm sure you're not looking to optimize it into the ground. I say go for it and have fun with it.
Tyraxus 12-23-06, 03:42 AM	*re-hijacks thread* I think Warblade/Swordsage would be pretty good. Best BAB, all good saves, lotsa maneuvers known and readied from SS, but use the WB's recovery method, and you get access to every discipline except Devoted Spirit, you get the SS's 6 skillpts/lvl... If you want to take advantage of every class skill and still be good in a fight you're gonna be MAD, but then you're looking at MAD for lots of fun gestalt combos anyway.
High Octane 12-23-06, 11:33 AM	I would imagine a good gestalt combo would be a wizard/Ranger. All good saves, full BAB, Full arcane spell progression, all martial weapon proficient, bonus metamagic feats, 6 + int skill points a level and a famailiar and an animal companion. Otherwise, A rogue/Druid.
zzakk2to2 12-23-06, 06:17 PM	werebear/half-dragon they have 3 levels each. then go with Brown Bear (Lycanthrope)/Barbarian for the bears 6 levels and at the 6th bear level in hybrid form and bear form you are large size. in the hybrid you would have wings and be large thus could fly and you would have these improvements: 1st Str +2, Dex +2, natural armor +2, bear abilities, bite 2nd Str +2, Con +2, scent 3rd Str +2, Con +2, natural armor +2, 2 claws 4th Str +2, Con +2, improved grab, Track 5th Str +4, Con +2, natural armor +1 6th Str +4, Large Natural Armor Improvements: At 1st level, the character's natural armor bonus increases by +2. A character that does not normally have a natural armor bonus (such as a human) is considered to have an initial natural armor bonus of +0 for the purpose of this ability. Thus, a human's natural armor bonus would increase to +2 at 1st level. These changes are cumulative. Bear Abilities (Ex): Upon taking a level in the brown bear animal class, the character gains the animal's Hit Dice (in all forms), base attack bonus (in all forms), base saving throw bonuses (in all forms), ability score modifiers (in hybrid and animal forms), skill points (in all forms), and natural armor bonus (in hybrid and animal forms), as well as the special abilities indicated on Table SP-11. In brown bear form, the werebear's speed changes to 40 feet, and he gains a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks in brown bear form. Class skills for the brown bear racial Hit Dice are Control Shape, Listen, Spot, and Swim. Bite: The brown bear animal class gives the werebear a bite attack in his animal and hybrid forms. The bite is a natural weapon that deals 1d8 points of damage. Scent (Ex): As a 1st-level brown bear, a werebear in any form gains the scent ability. Claws: Upon reaching 3rd level in the brown bear class, a werebear gains two claw attacks in his animal and hybrid forms. His claws are natural weapons, each dealing 1d6 points of damage. Improved Grab (Ex): At 4th level in the brown bear class, the werebear gains the improved grab ability. To use it, he must hit a creature at least one size category smaller than himself with a claw attack. He can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Track: At 4th level in brown bear class, the werebear gains Track as a bonus feat. Large (Ex): When a werebear reaches 6th level in the brown bear class, his animal and hybrid forms become Large size. In either of those forms, he takes a -1 penalty to AC and attack rolls because of his size, and his Space/Reach changes to 10 ft./10 ft. His bite damage increases to 2d6 points, and his claw damage increases to 1d8 points. His ability scores change as indicated on Table SP-11.
Hariman 12-25-06, 12:26 AM	Fighter Warmage would be better than Barbarian Warmage. As has been said before, Barbarians can't cast during Rage. But a Fighter has the bonus feats to burn on taking Battlecaster three times. That way, you could get Fullplate, cast spells, use fighter feats on either increasing your character's Martial or Spellcasting Prowess. Hariman
Onikani 12-25-06, 11:52 AM	i agree, fighter warmage is better than barbarian warmage, don't take battle caster more than once though, since you autmaotically get it at 8th level as a warmage, so you can run around in medium until 8th, then automatically switch up to heavy. For your feats take the suddens, and take them early. My human warmage took sudden silent and sudden empower at first level. At third level i took sudden maximize. At 4th level i could throw out maximized and empowered scorching rays. :) For your fighter feats take whatever - battle caster may be good for 1st or 2nd level, and from then on, go with whatever. Weapon focus: Ranged Touch Spells is always a good choice. ;)
angryman 12-31-06, 01:29 AM	Sorcerer/Paladin is good. Pure caster, full BAB, d10 HD and charisma becomes spectacularly useful. Cleric/Wizard is just wonderful, for obvious reasons. Your only real downside is that you need to have a decent DEX to offset your lack of armour. Or play a druid/wizard. Rogue/Fighter looks nice too- skills, sneak attack, D10 HD, feats...
EyeontheMountain 12-31-06, 02:14 AM	Combining 2 weak classes is basically the opposite of what you would want to do. If you wouldnt play it by itself, dont play it in gestalt... . I totally disagree. Gestalt is THE time to take a class you would otherwise never play. Of course do not take a second weak or underplayed classs, and make sure there is god synergy, but gestalt is a great tiem for underused classes.
angryman 12-31-06, 03:24 AM	I totally disagree. Gestalt is THE time to take a class you would otherwise never play. Of course do not take a second weak or underplayed classs, and make sure there is god synergy, but gestalt is a great tiem for underused classes. Druid/Cleric is an underpowered combination. Honestly. :D I promise never to turn into a dire bear, cast Righteous Might, use Divine Metamagic to cast a quickened Divine Power and...ohh that's a disgusting class combo...
Toxic_Shaman 12-31-06, 10:20 AM	When I play in a Gestalt game I like to pick a theme and stick to it. It can be tempting to try to do too many things at once, but keep in mind that you still have the Feats of a Single Class Character, so if you try to do too many things, you'll be splitting the benefits up. I prefer to pick one thing that the character will be good at, and use the other side for complimentary abilities. From a number crunching standpoint there are also some great classes that make good filler for the second side: Feat Rogue varient from UA: 8 skill points/level, plus fighter Feats instead of Sneak Attack Dragon Disciple: d12HD, big stat bonuses, bonus spells Paragon Human/Elf etc...: Stat bonuses, advances spellcasting Chameleon: Crazy good in a non-gestalt game, it can be even better in a Gestalt game if your DM will allow it. Floating Bonus Feat at level two, +6 to one Stat that can change on a daily basis, Divine and Arcane spellcasting....When I DM a Gestalt game, this one is banned. Monk: Great Saves, Movement, Feats, goes well with Casters of any stripe. Incarnate: Good class to provide buffs that don't require actions to initiate.
Magetastic 01-01-07, 01:18 PM	How about wizard/swash buckler ,all good saves, d8 hit dice, int to AC up to your level, +6 int skill points, full caster, no need for armor, doesn't suffer from MAD (all you need is dex and int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Spellcraft (Int). and Use Rope (Dex). bonus caster AND fighter feats, evasion (9th level), canny defense, and fast movement. not bad eh?