Post/Author/DateTime	Post
felinoel 09-15-05, 11:42 PM	what are the plusses of becoming a halfling rogue/druid?
20goingon1232 09-15-05, 11:44 PM	Umm... Sneak attack of death by a pigeon?
felinoel 09-15-05, 11:46 PM	Umm... Sneak attack of death by a pigeon? ummmmmm could you explain a bit more?
20goingon1232 09-15-05, 11:50 PM	Small birds in the MM does about 1 point of damage per hit. When you Wildshape into a bird, you get that kind of damage. However, everyone ignores little non-threatening birds like sparrows and pigeons. Rogue sneak attack should still work in pigeon form... Regardless of the mechanics, don't you think an orc dropping dead from a single pigeon attack kinda funny in a ludicrous way?
Vaelan 09-15-05, 11:53 PM	You could pounce into a flanking position and get multiple sneak attacks.
felinoel 09-16-05, 12:24 AM	You could pounce into a flanking position and get multiple sneak attacks. hmmmm interesting.... what bout the spells?
20goingon1232 09-16-05, 12:28 AM	What about them? They are worse than a full druid's, so they aren't exactly a plus...
felinoel 09-16-05, 12:33 AM	What about them? They are worse than a full druid's, so they aren't exactly a plus... lol i am wondering about druid spells
20goingon1232 09-16-05, 12:50 AM	Eh? What do you need to know about them? What spells to pick? Spell effects? Rules questions?
felinoel 09-16-05, 01:29 AM	Eh? What do you need to know about them? What spells to pick? Spell effects? Rules questions? i no nothing i am completly a nube but i would prefer water based spells
pangalactic 09-16-05, 08:36 AM	Just one question, spawned by your recent threads - have you actually read any of the rules, or played in a game?
felinoel 09-16-05, 11:48 AM	Just one question, spawned by your recent threads - have you actually read any of the rules, or played in a game? actually i read the player handbook version 3.0 (and i wanted to read the monsters guide but my DM wouldnt let me lol), also my first game is this Sunday
Doopliss 09-16-05, 12:23 PM	Entangle would help you get off some sneak attacks, (not confirmed, I seem to have misplaced my DMG) Obscuring mist would help with nondetection, Cat's grace also might help.(can't have too much dex) Gust of wind has near infinite uses, Spider Climb is invaluable for a rogue, and Tree shape is a perfect disguise while outside. Just a few low-level spell suggestions :)
felinoel 09-16-05, 12:58 PM	Entangle would help you get off some sneak attacks, (not confirmed, I seem to have misplaced my DMG) Obscuring mist would help with nondetection, Cat's grace also might help.(can't have too much dex) Gust of wind has near infinite uses, Spider Climb is invaluable for a rogue, and Tree shape is a perfect disguise while outside. Just a few low-level spell suggestions :) wow those all sound sweet i will definatly look into those!!!
eudas 09-16-05, 01:17 PM	rogue and druid aren't really classes that synergize well; a rogue is going to want high DEX, CON, INT and a druid is going to want high WIS, INT, and maybe CON. The druid's physical stats don't matter much when they're wildshaped because they take on the creature's physical stats. Additionally, their skills lists aren't completely synergistic; a Druid is going to want Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge(nature), etc, where as Rogue is going to want Move Silently, Hide, Search, Disable Device, etc. Any rogue levels that you take are going to put you "behind" on caster level progression for Druid spellcasting and wildshape capabilities, and any druid levels that you take are going to put you "behind" on advancing skill ranks and sneak attack damage. Now, there are a couple of classes that were made to help Druid/Rogue multiclass characters. One of these classes is the Daggerspell Shaper, which is a prestige class from Complete Adventurer, and it advances some of the capabilities of both rogue and druid, and mixes the two skill lists as well. eudas
felinoel 09-16-05, 01:22 PM	Entangle would help you get off some sneak attacks, (not confirmed, I seem to have misplaced my DMG) Obscuring mist would help with nondetection, Cat's grace also might help.(can't have too much dex) Gust of wind has near infinite uses, Spider Climb is invaluable for a rogue, and Tree shape is a perfect disguise while outside. Just a few low-level spell suggestions :)wow those all sound sweet i will definatly look into those!!! wait according to the 3.0 edition, cats grace is not a spell druids can use rogue and druid aren't really classes that synergize well; a rogue is going to want high DEX, CON, INT and a druid is going to want high WIS, INT, and maybe CON. The druid's physical stats don't matter much when they're wildshaped because they take on the creature's physical stats. Additionally, their skills lists aren't completely synergistic; a Druid is going to want Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge(nature), etc, where as Rogue is going to want Move Silently, Hide, Search, Disable Device, etc. Any rogue levels that you take are going to put you "behind" on caster level progression for Druid spellcasting and wildshape capabilities, and any druid levels that you take are going to put you "behind" on advancing skill ranks and sneak attack damage. Now, there are a couple of classes that were made to help Druid/Rogue multiclass characters. One of these classes is the Daggerspell Shaper, which is a prestige class from Complete Adventurer, and it advances some of the capabilities of both rogue and druid, and mixes the two skill lists as well. well i got lucky with the rolls i got high lvls in all stats u said were neccesary
solbergb 09-16-05, 02:28 PM	Druids make very good scouts and have most of the scout skills on their list. If you have enough intelligence, you can manage all of spot, listen, move silent, hide, survival and maybe even search crossclass (but maxed, because on rogue list). The first four are greatly enhanced by various animal forms (core - +4 to various skills is typical, sometimes +8 plus climb speeds, fly speeds or swim speeds) and various spells (see Races of Wild, Complete adventurer) Raptor Sight (RW) +5 spot, Embrace the Wild (CV) your choice of animal senses, go with scent/low light if you also use listening lorecall, otherwise blindsense is good, Listening lorecall (CV) (+4 to listen plus blindsense and later blindsight if you have enough spot ranks) For stealth, the L1 camoflauge spell (CD or CV, can't remember) is +10 to hide, and the CV "Nature's Favor" (L4 spell) is +20 to move silent and hide if you stick to one terrain type. Animal forms with many attacks, especially the pouncing cats have big synergy with sneak attack. The very small animals are very hard to see, so they also have synergy with sneak attack. Touch based spells (especially produce flame, but flame blade also has its points) can also have nice synergy with sneak attack. Tumble, jump and balance can be nice too for charging-oriented animal forms. Woodland stride is fantastic for a rogue (no circumstance penalties for crackling leaves or thorn bushes) and trackless step can make a quick escape if you get spotted while scouting a lot easier, even in urban settings. The trick is to remember you are a rogue or scout, not a divine caster. Your spellcasting will fall behind, and your spell slots will be tied up with stuff that makes you a better skillmonkey. Also if you scout in animal form, you will have trouble communicating with the party. Someone in the party who has speak with animals or rary's telepathic bond can really help, otherwise you're limited to Charades and drawing in the dirt with your claw. Disable device can be problematic in animal form too, however if you can tell the trap is there, burning a L1 slot to summon a monkey can usually "disable" it by springing the trap. Natural spell is a must if you want to wildshape and get the most out of your spell synergy. Rogue1/druid8 or scout1/druid8 is pretty good. More than 8 levels of druid you get diminishing returns - once you can wildshape large, and wildshape 3 times a day for 8 hours a day, and have your L4 spell slots you are starting to feel the pinch of the smaller skill list and lack of sneak improvement and may want to go back to Rogue or a rogue PRC to reinforce all the druid goodness with core skills and class features. The hardest period for the rogue/druid is levels 2-5 (no wildshape yet) but in that level your animal companion is pretty strong if you go with riding dog, so it will pick up some of the slack in combat until you can wildshape and cast GMF. Also note that you don't need good physical stats (key are wisdom and intelligence) if you intend to do most "sneaky stuff" in animal form. However if you really want to play from 1-9, you will just hate the first 5 levels if you don't have adequate dex and constitution - and str is nice too (weapon finesse is wasted on a druid rogue, you don't have enough feats to waste on it) So: Skills - you can keep up if you are the kind of rogue who does stealth and alertness, and with a good int and human base form you can also keep up with search/disable device. Tracking is also an option if you spend a feat on it, you'll be very good at it. All the mobility stuff rogues do is easily simulated by animals with flight, climb or swim skills, post level 5. Choosing your favorite animal form is important though, since that choice is locked in for a number of hours. Sneak attack - in a surprise round a L9 rogue gets weapon+5d6+strength. The same character as rogue1/druid8 wildshaped into a dire lion gets a much bigger weapon+strength damage, +5d6 (1d6 plus five limbs). Generally you are a little behind the rogue in damage output in a full attack, but the touch attacks (level 2-5) and the animal forms (levels 6+) tend to even out to similar damage, with similar awkwardness in setting it up. Druid stuff - you only lose one level on that from 1-9, and after that you're such a good rogue it doesn't matter that the divine caster role sluffs off. you use the druid role in lower levels to make up for the fact that the synergy isn't there yet (still human most of the time with medeocre attributes and limited and short duration spell slots).
Doopliss 09-16-05, 02:39 PM	wait according to the 3.0 edition, cats grace is not a spell druids can use Ah, it's a 3.0 campaign. I was just browsing through his 3.5 spell list :) I tend to find all rogues can benefit from some spellcasting ability.(used to play a rogue/sorceror)
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 09-16-05, 02:45 PM	Ah, it's a 3.0 campaign. I was just browsing through his 3.5 spell list :) I tend to find all rogues can benefit from some spellcasting ability.(used to play a rogue/sorceror) I can't seem to make a Rogue or a Sorceror without being both these days. :D
felinoel 09-16-05, 03:12 PM	Ah, it's a 3.0 campaign. I was just browsing through his 3.5 spell list :) I tend to find all rogues can benefit from some spellcasting ability.(used to play a rogue/sorceror) oh so it is for druids with 3.5?
Fanged Fremont 09-16-05, 03:15 PM	I can't seem to make a Rogue or a Sorceror without being both these days. :D We play gestalt and thats all I ever play. (with a few levels in prestige classes and fighter for feats)
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 09-16-05, 03:29 PM	Yeah, when I'm going Gestalt, that's the only way to go 1 Rogue/Sorceror 2 Rogue/Sorceror 3 Rogue/Fighter 4 Fighter/Soceror Then pretty much 5-20 Rogue/Sorceror
felinoel 09-17-05, 01:29 PM	so is that all the plusses? what bout the familiar? can someone explain a druid's familiar? EDIT: i was thinkin of gettin a cat but is ther any way to teach a cat to swim, cuz i no ther is a way in real life but idk bout D&D
JD 09-17-05, 01:52 PM	Domestic cats can swim, they just generally don't like to (it must be something about the incompatibility of water and glamour). There's no reason why your cat shouldn't be able to swim in D&D (as far as I'm aware) but your DM may make it reluctant to enter the water.
High Octane 09-17-05, 02:37 PM	I cant tell you off the top of my head anything, but just remember your strangths as a rogue and how druid can accentuate them. For example, as a druid, you have an animal companion. Order your companion to help you flank the enemy. You each get +2 PLUS you get your sneak attack. Use your druid spells to cause your opponents to lose their dex bonus to AC allowing MORE sneak attack. Use druidic spell divinations to help you find traps and use protection spells when you try to disarm them. Also, multiclassing these 2 classes should give you decent all around saving throws (druid giving fort and will, rogue giving reflex). The rogues evasion will help you avoid Area of Effect spells cast, including your own, so you don't have to fear too much about casting fire spells around yourself. Uncanny dodge is a nice touch. Your woodland stride will help you get into flanking position quicker too. Trackless step helps you avoid being followed if you go scouting.
felinoel 09-17-05, 03:18 PM	Domestic cats can swim, they just generally don't like to (it must be something about the incompatibility of water and glamour). There's no reason why your cat shouldn't be able to swim in D&D (as far as I'm aware) but your DM may make it reluctant to enter the water. well my cat at home can swim and so i hope my DM lets mine in D&D swim cuz i am planning on having a water based halfling druid/rogue I cant tell you off the top of my head anything, but just remember your strangths as a rogue and how druid can accentuate them. For example, as a druid, you have an animal companion. Order your companion to help you flank the enemy. You each get +2 PLUS you get your sneak attack. Use your druid spells to cause your opponents to lose their dex bonus to AC allowing MORE sneak attack. Use druidic spell divinations to help you find traps and use protection spells when you try to disarm them. Also, multiclassing these 2 classes should give you decent all around saving throws (druid giving fort and will, rogue giving reflex). The rogues evasion will help you avoid Area of Effect spells cast, including your own, so you don't have to fear too much about casting fire spells around yourself. Uncanny dodge is a nice touch. Your woodland stride will help you get into flanking position quicker too. Trackless step helps you avoid being followed if you go scouting. yes that ius why i chose a cat and that is also why i chose to add on druid to my halfling rogue