Gothy familar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Gothy familar? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Another_Poet
10-09-06, 06:31 PM Okay, this is my first time posting. I've been playing D&D for about a year now. In a couple weeks we're starting a new campaign, and our DM has given me permission to make a character who is a "dread necromancer" (a class from the Heroes of Horror book).
The problem? The DM strictly forbids any PC's who are evil, which is fair enough. Dread necromancers can be neutral, but their familiars are not so flexible. The class description says that at a certain level I get to choose either an imp or some other type of low-level demon or devil as a familiar. DM won't allow it, because they're all evil.
He suggested I look at other CR 2 creatures to replace my familiar. Problem is, none of them look like anything that would interest a necromancer (except the evil ones). When I asked if he could suggest something "Gothy", he suggested a Mephit--which looks to me like a malnourished angel painted the colour of its element.
So, how do I respect the DM's wishes but also have a dark, gloomy familiar? Should I try to sell him on a backstory why my particular imp isn't evil? Is there some other CR 2 (or even CR3) creature I'm overlooking? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
BluEnigma
10-09-06, 06:35 PM Perhaps he'll let you have an undead, such as the skeleton familiar that a specialist necromancer can get in the Unearthed Arcana supplement.
Tempest Stormwind
10-09-06, 06:41 PM Dude, it doesn't get more gothic than a raven (classic familiar). To raise the CR to 2, look into templates -- Shadow comes to mind. You have a pitch-black bird capable of speaking perched on your shoulder, distilled out of pure shadow and darkness to serve you. This should put the CR at about 2, if I remember the template correctly. Lords of Madness has the 3.5 version of it. If you don't have access to this book, you should be able to look up a summary on CrystalKeep.
The_Normal_Anomaly
10-09-06, 07:09 PM Dude, it doesn't get more gothic than a raven (classic familiar). To raise the CR to 2, look into templates -- Shadow comes to mind. You have a pitch-black bird capable of speaking perched on your shoulder, distilled out of pure shadow and darkness to serve you. This should put the CR at about 2, if I remember the template correctly. Lords of Madness has the 3.5 version of it. If you don't have access to this book, you should be able to look up a summary on CrystalKeep.

...and we are talking that cool gothic, not the just random things that either dead or seen as disturbing.
Telhuine
10-09-06, 07:22 PM ...and we are talking that cool gothic, not the just random things that either dead or seen as disturbing.

Totally. Raven is the way to go, IMO. If you want to make it obscure and mysterious, you could have infernal as one of your languages and chose that as the language it knows when you call it.

My raven sits on my shoulders most of the time. He happens to like pecking the eyeballs from the skulls of dead enemies our group kills.

Fun stuff :)
PhaedrusXY
10-09-06, 08:31 PM The fact that ravens can speak also means that they can activate magic items.
Napoleon_the_Clown
10-09-06, 09:13 PM http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf

Look through the templates in there that can be applied to animals and pick one to add to a raven. Or just say you dress up an appropriate critter in goth clothing. ;)
Another_Poet
10-10-06, 12:19 AM Thanks for the suggestions so far. I will definitely check out the raven + template. I was hoping however that someone would have something a little more demon/gremlin/gargoyle-looking. I have access to the regular Monster Manual but not MM 2 or 3 etc. Does anyone know of any critters that have an impish appearancer but aren't always evil?

thanks again
ap
DragonDeadite
10-10-06, 12:38 AM There's a feat in the Libris Mortis called Stitched Flesh Familiar that makes your familiar an undead. Since you're all about the undead (and it gives you an addition 4HD of undead to control) that might be worth picking up. That way, your demon guy is an undead, and thus not evil, plus it'll look like a bunch of the things all stitched together... a very cool feat in my opinion.

If anyone argues about the undead being evil don't bother... the DM doesn't want evil but has no problem with a Dread Necromancer running around with undead following him, so that means an undead demon wouldn't be concidered evil either.
Another_Poet
10-10-06, 01:05 AM There's a feat in the Libris Mortis called Stitched Flesh Familiar that makes your familiar an undead. Since you're all about the undead (and it gives you an addition 4HD of undead to control) that might be worth picking up. That way, your demon guy is an undead, and thus not evil, plus it'll look like a bunch of the things all stitched together... a very cool feat in my opinion.

If anyone argues about the undead being evil don't bother... the DM doesn't want evil but has no problem with a Dread Necromancer running around with undead following him, so that means an undead demon wouldn't be concidered evil either.

Now we're talking! I don't have the Libris Mortis (it is on my to-buy list) but I'm sure the DM will want to see the whole text. I guess I'll have to borrow one and photocopy the page.

ap
Kethka
10-10-06, 01:37 AM How about an emo kitten?
http://www.makeoutclub.com/htdocs/profiles/images/boys/Emo_the_Cat.jpg
Molitor
10-10-06, 03:34 AM I really like the raven idea, but how about a honunculos?
Fireclave
10-10-06, 04:38 AM The Stiched Flesh familiar feat can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041001a)

You might also want to run the Animate Dead Familiar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011209a) by your DM.

Though I think standard familiar would work too. You just need to give your familiar a gothy personalty.
Seldriss
10-10-06, 11:08 AM If your DM refuses any evil character, talk with him (as a matter of fact, try to talk with your DM as much as possible, whatever the situation), arguing that an alignment is not enough to judge a character and the possible trouble he can bring in the game.
Or if it is, what about Chaotic Neutral psychopaths, bringing chaos and destruction in their path ?
Or about fanatic Lawful Good paladins who act like inquisitors ?

The simple fact a character is evil doesn't mean he is going to kill everybody around him.
Evil can be in his mind, not necessary his acts.
Maybe he is evil because he is using extreme methods, which are condemned by common morality.
From one point of view, things like sneak attacks and poison can be considered as evil. Hey, even pick-pocketing.

As examples, there are some characters in literature or fantasy classics which can be labelled as evil, and still don't always act like bloody criminals.
Raistlin. Elric. Siegfried. Boromir. Gollum.
Anti-heroes are often more interesting than pure goody-goody archetypes.
People shouldn't be judged on their appearance or their thoughts, but from their acts.

Evil characters can be very interesting in the game and a challenge for roleplaying. Of course, they can bring some complications in the group, but things can always be managed.
The important thing is to remember that you are playing with friends, so even if your character is evil, don't overplay him as such, and try to be useful in the group, and not just a pain. Even if you are not very objective in your roleplaying and you are too much collaborative, nobody will repproach that to you, as you are showing some effort to be constructive.

Good luck.
Another_Poet
10-10-06, 12:33 PM [QUOTE=Kethka]How about an emo kitten?
Best answer so far!!

lol
ap
Magus Gar Kan
10-10-06, 12:38 PM You could just ask to choose from the improved familiar list. Otherwise either a cat or raven would be best.

BTW just my 2cp but I normally disallow evil characters, but my players are the kind of people who would use evil alignment as an excuse to kill each other. An ounce of prevention for a ton of unessesary PVP. :)
Another_Poet
10-10-06, 01:06 PM Okay, I have suggested the stitched dead familar to him; we'll see what he says. If he says no then I will try to homunculus, but powered up with the shadow template that was suggested for the raven.

Thanks guys!

ap
Seldriss
10-10-06, 01:21 PM A shadow familiar ?
Hmmm
Thanks, that gives me some ideas... :D
The_Normal_Anomaly
10-10-06, 08:13 PM Tell me that this doen't sound awesome: The Ghost Raven.

The one thing creepier than having a large black bird on your shoulder, is having a large black bird that you can see through on your shoulder.

Either that or an Umbral Raven. I know it is agains the rules, but picture the caster's raven going out and killing those who killed his master if he would die. Starting small, getting some shadows from the easier kills of the enemy, eventually murdering his master's killer. The raven is left with a number of shadows and a goal of either bringing it's master back or doing something that the master was trying to do. Thas is a good plot device, I could use that for a campaign...
mvincent
10-11-06, 05:49 PM 1) A ghost familiar (of almost any creature type) sounds like a good idea (plus, they make great scouts).
2) Put a helm of opposite alignment on an imp or quasit
3) Use a Raven, crow, bat or Dire bat
4) Have polymorph other cast on a regular familiar to change it into something gothy (Dire Crow?)
Cifer
10-11-06, 06:23 PM Or just say you dress up an appropriate critter in goth clothing.
Won't work. A raven is a tiny animal with a strength score of 1 - not even nearly enough for flight with the several pounds of jewelry.
mvincent
10-11-06, 06:30 PM Maybe a Gauth?
Tempest Stormwind
10-11-06, 06:42 PM Won't work. A raven is a tiny animal with a strength score of 1 - not even nearly enough for flight with the several pounds of jewelry.
Easy solution: Female raven. And use lace instead of leather. ;)

Ghost Raven gets my vote in the end. Even over Shadow Raven. Particularly if it only speaks in backwards Latin or something.
mvincent
10-11-06, 06:52 PM Note that one other (core) non-evil undead is the shadow acquired by a 3rd level Shadowdancer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/shadowdancer.htm):
"At 3rd level, a shadowdancer can summon a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow’s alignment matches that of the shadowdancer, and the creature cannot create spawn."

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Another_Poet 10-09-06, 06:31 PM	Okay, this is my first time posting. I've been playing D&D for about a year now. In a couple weeks we're starting a new campaign, and our DM has given me permission to make a character who is a "dread necromancer" (a class from the Heroes of Horror book). The problem? The DM strictly forbids any PC's who are evil, which is fair enough. Dread necromancers can be neutral, but their familiars are not so flexible. The class description says that at a certain level I get to choose either an imp or some other type of low-level demon or devil as a familiar. DM won't allow it, because they're all evil. He suggested I look at other CR 2 creatures to replace my familiar. Problem is, none of them look like anything that would interest a necromancer (except the evil ones). When I asked if he could suggest something "Gothy", he suggested a Mephit--which looks to me like a malnourished angel painted the colour of its element. So, how do I respect the DM's wishes but also have a dark, gloomy familiar? Should I try to sell him on a backstory why my particular imp isn't evil? Is there some other CR 2 (or even CR3) creature I'm overlooking? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
BluEnigma 10-09-06, 06:35 PM	Perhaps he'll let you have an undead, such as the skeleton familiar that a specialist necromancer can get in the Unearthed Arcana supplement.
Tempest Stormwind 10-09-06, 06:41 PM	Dude, it doesn't get more gothic than a raven (classic familiar). To raise the CR to 2, look into templates -- Shadow comes to mind. You have a pitch-black bird capable of speaking perched on your shoulder, distilled out of pure shadow and darkness to serve you. This should put the CR at about 2, if I remember the template correctly. Lords of Madness has the 3.5 version of it. If you don't have access to this book, you should be able to look up a summary on CrystalKeep.
The_Normal_Anomaly 10-09-06, 07:09 PM	Dude, it doesn't get more gothic than a raven (classic familiar). To raise the CR to 2, look into templates -- Shadow comes to mind. You have a pitch-black bird capable of speaking perched on your shoulder, distilled out of pure shadow and darkness to serve you. This should put the CR at about 2, if I remember the template correctly. Lords of Madness has the 3.5 version of it. If you don't have access to this book, you should be able to look up a summary on CrystalKeep. ...and we are talking that cool gothic, not the just random things that either dead or seen as disturbing.
Telhuine 10-09-06, 07:22 PM	...and we are talking that cool gothic, not the just random things that either dead or seen as disturbing. Totally. Raven is the way to go, IMO. If you want to make it obscure and mysterious, you could have infernal as one of your languages and chose that as the language it knows when you call it. My raven sits on my shoulders most of the time. He happens to like pecking the eyeballs from the skulls of dead enemies our group kills. Fun stuff :)
PhaedrusXY 10-09-06, 08:31 PM	The fact that ravens can speak also means that they can activate magic items.
Napoleon_the_Clown 10-09-06, 09:13 PM	http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Templates.pdf Look through the templates in there that can be applied to animals and pick one to add to a raven. Or just say you dress up an appropriate critter in goth clothing. ;)
Another_Poet 10-10-06, 12:19 AM	Thanks for the suggestions so far. I will definitely check out the raven + template. I was hoping however that someone would have something a little more demon/gremlin/gargoyle-looking. I have access to the regular Monster Manual but not MM 2 or 3 etc. Does anyone know of any critters that have an impish appearancer but aren't always evil? thanks again ap
DragonDeadite 10-10-06, 12:38 AM	There's a feat in the Libris Mortis called Stitched Flesh Familiar that makes your familiar an undead. Since you're all about the undead (and it gives you an addition 4HD of undead to control) that might be worth picking up. That way, your demon guy is an undead, and thus not evil, plus it'll look like a bunch of the things all stitched together... a very cool feat in my opinion. If anyone argues about the undead being evil don't bother... the DM doesn't want evil but has no problem with a Dread Necromancer running around with undead following him, so that means an undead demon wouldn't be concidered evil either.
Another_Poet 10-10-06, 01:05 AM	There's a feat in the Libris Mortis called Stitched Flesh Familiar that makes your familiar an undead. Since you're all about the undead (and it gives you an addition 4HD of undead to control) that might be worth picking up. That way, your demon guy is an undead, and thus not evil, plus it'll look like a bunch of the things all stitched together... a very cool feat in my opinion. If anyone argues about the undead being evil don't bother... the DM doesn't want evil but has no problem with a Dread Necromancer running around with undead following him, so that means an undead demon wouldn't be concidered evil either. Now we're talking! I don't have the Libris Mortis (it is on my to-buy list) but I'm sure the DM will want to see the whole text. I guess I'll have to borrow one and photocopy the page. ap
Kethka 10-10-06, 01:37 AM	How about an emo kitten? http://www.makeoutclub.com/htdocs/profiles/images/boys/Emo_the_Cat.jpg
Molitor 10-10-06, 03:34 AM	I really like the raven idea, but how about a honunculos?
Fireclave 10-10-06, 04:38 AM	The Stiched Flesh familiar feat can be found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20041001a) You might also want to run the Animate Dead Familiar (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011209a) by your DM. Though I think standard familiar would work too. You just need to give your familiar a gothy personalty.
Seldriss 10-10-06, 11:08 AM	If your DM refuses any evil character, talk with him (as a matter of fact, try to talk with your DM as much as possible, whatever the situation), arguing that an alignment is not enough to judge a character and the possible trouble he can bring in the game. Or if it is, what about Chaotic Neutral psychopaths, bringing chaos and destruction in their path ? Or about fanatic Lawful Good paladins who act like inquisitors ? The simple fact a character is evil doesn't mean he is going to kill everybody around him. Evil can be in his mind, not necessary his acts. Maybe he is evil because he is using extreme methods, which are condemned by common morality. From one point of view, things like sneak attacks and poison can be considered as evil. Hey, even pick-pocketing. As examples, there are some characters in literature or fantasy classics which can be labelled as evil, and still don't always act like bloody criminals. Raistlin. Elric. Siegfried. Boromir. Gollum. Anti-heroes are often more interesting than pure goody-goody archetypes. People shouldn't be judged on their appearance or their thoughts, but from their acts. Evil characters can be very interesting in the game and a challenge for roleplaying. Of course, they can bring some complications in the group, but things can always be managed. The important thing is to remember that you are playing with friends, so even if your character is evil, don't overplay him as such, and try to be useful in the group, and not just a pain. Even if you are not very objective in your roleplaying and you are too much collaborative, nobody will repproach that to you, as you are showing some effort to be constructive. Good luck.
Another_Poet 10-10-06, 12:33 PM	[QUOTE=Kethka]How about an emo kitten? Best answer so far!! lol ap
Magus Gar Kan 10-10-06, 12:38 PM	You could just ask to choose from the improved familiar list. Otherwise either a cat or raven would be best. BTW just my 2cp but I normally disallow evil characters, but my players are the kind of people who would use evil alignment as an excuse to kill each other. An ounce of prevention for a ton of unessesary PVP. :)
Another_Poet 10-10-06, 01:06 PM	Okay, I have suggested the stitched dead familar to him; we'll see what he says. If he says no then I will try to homunculus, but powered up with the shadow template that was suggested for the raven. Thanks guys! ap
Seldriss 10-10-06, 01:21 PM	A shadow familiar ? Hmmm Thanks, that gives me some ideas... :D
The_Normal_Anomaly 10-10-06, 08:13 PM	Tell me that this doen't sound awesome: The Ghost Raven. The one thing creepier than having a large black bird on your shoulder, is having a large black bird that you can see through on your shoulder. Either that or an Umbral Raven. I know it is agains the rules, but picture the caster's raven going out and killing those who killed his master if he would die. Starting small, getting some shadows from the easier kills of the enemy, eventually murdering his master's killer. The raven is left with a number of shadows and a goal of either bringing it's master back or doing something that the master was trying to do. Thas is a good plot device, I could use that for a campaign...
mvincent 10-11-06, 05:49 PM	1) A ghost familiar (of almost any creature type) sounds like a good idea (plus, they make great scouts). 2) Put a helm of opposite alignment on an imp or quasit 3) Use a Raven, crow, bat or Dire bat 4) Have polymorph other cast on a regular familiar to change it into something gothy (Dire Crow?)
Cifer 10-11-06, 06:23 PM	Or just say you dress up an appropriate critter in goth clothing. Won't work. A raven is a tiny animal with a strength score of 1 - not even nearly enough for flight with the several pounds of jewelry.
mvincent 10-11-06, 06:30 PM	Maybe a Gauth?
Tempest Stormwind 10-11-06, 06:42 PM	Won't work. A raven is a tiny animal with a strength score of 1 - not even nearly enough for flight with the several pounds of jewelry. Easy solution: Female raven. And use lace instead of leather. ;) Ghost Raven gets my vote in the end. Even over Shadow Raven. Particularly if it only speaks in backwards Latin or something.
mvincent 10-11-06, 06:52 PM	Note that one other (core) non-evil undead is the shadow acquired by a 3rd level Shadowdancer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/shadowdancer.htm): "At 3rd level, a shadowdancer can summon a shadow, an undead shade. Unlike a normal shadow, this shadow’s alignment matches that of the shadowdancer, and the creature cannot create spawn."