Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arturius1 11-20-07, 12:10 AM	I recently got into a new game. Core classes only. I run a VoP Monk alongside a paladin, and cleric of Pelor. We just hit level 2 and I already see problems down the road. Since before the characters were rolled, I informed the DM about my intentions with my character. That being, will multiclass into paladin later on. The cleric of the group has never run a cleric, or anything other than warlock. He doesn't get the concept of being good and following Pelor's ideals since he's suggested using torture on a prisoner, and didn't even attempt to free a house that caught on fire with children locked inside. The paladin (OOC) has openly expressed a desire to become a blackguard. These two (in a group of five) seem like they're gonna rip the party in half, if not force a TPK. Should I just roll with it and see what happens, or ask the players to tone it down and work together?
metalmayhem80110 11-20-07, 01:58 AM	You're running VoP, well unless they're optimized you should be able to pummel them... Just take all of the other vows, every one of them. Make it clear that your intrest is in a heroic campaign. Lets say they do go evil. With all of your vows just beat the holy non-lethal hell out of them. Than turn them intot he authorities :D
Exposed_Wires 11-20-07, 03:27 AM	Don't go with it. Play a character with dimension. If you willingly let them go evil without objecting or leaving the group, it'll just feel cheap later. The game will feel fake and lame. The evil people will commit a couple of horrible atrocities and get bored. I did.
Puritan13 11-20-07, 07:15 AM	Just to play devils advocate here: Maybe you should get with the program and plan some sort of downfall/corruption for your character as well. Seems the rest of the group is interested in playing evil, so join them in their reindeer games.
Belkar 11-20-07, 09:51 AM	Just to play devils advocate here: Maybe you should get with the program and plan some sort of downfall/corruption for your character as well. Seems the rest of the group is interested in playing evil, so join them in their reindeer games. yeah.... but if he does his character is toast. VoP forbids it. He'll lose everything and I mean everything - irrevocably. You become a simple monk with two wasted feat slots. Might as well die fighting them... if it comes to that... and have your new blackguard rolled up! ;)
Feather 11-20-07, 10:42 AM	2 against one. I suggest you plot a similar descent into darkness for your character and use the retraining rules from pHB2 to make a new, evil monk.
Etarnon 11-22-07, 04:31 AM	Do the heroic thing, and challenge them at every turn. And hire help from your local temple. Always do the right thing.
Dei 11-22-07, 08:43 AM	2 against one. I suggest you plot a similar descent into darkness for your character and use the retraining rules from pHB2 to make a new, evil monk. Actually no, it's two against three. He said that these are the only two out of a group of five interested in an evil campaign and since the group started with a cleric of pelor, an exalted monk and a paladin it's pretty obvious that the tone was heroic/good. If anything the two players planning to go evil are the ones that should think about redirecting their characters . Edit: And I agree with the those who said play true to your character. If they perform an evil act call them up on it and play your character as outraged and angry as he would have every right to be. If they attack you for it, you're a VOP monk, beat them until candy comes out.
aotrscommander 11-22-07, 09:46 AM	Edit: And I agree with the those who said play true to your character. If they perform an evil act call them up on it and play your character as outraged and angry as he would have every right to be. If they attack you for it, you're a VOP monk, beat them until candy comes out. But don't start the fight yourself for cryin' out loud, since you're Exalted, so pummeling your supposed friends is really, really not exceptable. Be aghast, horrified and demand, shocked (maybe weeping if you can pull it off) why they did such a terrible thing. Make a massive deal about it (nonviolently) and see if you can't make the players and/or characters actually feel really guilty about it. And if they then go all PvP on you, assuming the DM doesn't slap them (i.e. the players) down hard (and he bloody well should be doing if he's set this campaign up like this), punch them out nonlethal, fully justified. Then, drag them off to the nearest temple of Pelor under the unshakable conviction they have been cursed or something (since obviously no paragons of virtue would fall so quickly). Ham it up. Forgive them, keep telling them as your friend you'll stick by them and help them through this tragedy and see the error of their ways. Get the other two players to help you in this. Keep pestering the characters for why they did it. Which should either get you some good roleplaying points or the players saying '"just felt like it" which should earn them the DM's displeasure for not trying to roleplay, messing the game up or both. Try and make them feel really guilty. For extra points, blame yourself for not being able to forsee this or stop it happening and all the other crap heroes do in this sort of situation (try not to go overboard though, since if you take into emo territory, the other players will probably set you bowels on fire.) Either you'll succeed, in which case, good, game back on track (and probably a well-chuffed DM), or you'll at least come out of the ensuing party split smelling of roses, having tried your damnedest to prevent it and having done some good roleplaying to boot. If the entire party decides to go evil against you, though, talk to the DM and explain that as you were expecting a good aligned campaign and since your character is inapporpirate for that now, you will need a new character. (Unless the other players do in reverse to you what I suggested you do to them, in which case go with it and con the DM into giving you some Vile feats in exchange for your Exalted ones (fair's fair, Paladin to Blackguard get replacements, right? You, Mr I'm-Holier-than-most-Paladins, ought to get even more reward from the Dark Powers!)
temparus2000 11-22-07, 10:41 AM	He doesn't get the concept of being good and following Pelor's ideals since he's suggested using torture on a prisoner, and didn't even attempt to free a house that caught on fire with children locked inside. The paladin (OOC) has openly expressed a desire to become a blackguard. :eek: how are these 2 still getting support from their gods? i have a paladin of heironeous in my group. If he ever said to the group "ya know, I'm thinking of becoming evil", Heironeous wold send down a planetar to smack the holy crap out of him in a hearbeat. After sufficently smacking the holy crap out of him, the planetar would take all of his paladin powers with a "see ya, chump." Then the holy crap-smacking planetar would administer a few righteous bit**-slaps to the torture-endorsing, child-burning cleric of Pelor as well, just for good measure. In seriousness, I suggest you just go with it and try to have as much fun as you can. The DM obviously lets them ignore alignment whenever they want without penalty. So the DM probably likes them (or dosen't understand how alignment works). Openly defying them will only bring wrath down on your head.
FrostWolf 11-23-07, 10:13 AM	Talk with the Pally and show him the Grey Guard. See if he wants to try that instead. Get your hands on Complete Mage and show the Cleric any of the Warlock+X Prcs. I know I've seen at least one Cleric+warlock class. Maybe that would help. Or just have him read his dieties section of the PHB.
Shadowhowler 11-23-07, 10:19 AM	But don't start the fight yourself for cryin' out loud, since you're Exalted, so pummeling your supposed friends is really, really not exceptable. Be aghast, horrified and demand, shocked (maybe weeping if you can pull it off) why they did such a terrible thing. Make a massive deal about it (nonviolently) and see if you can't make the players and/or characters actually feel really guilty about it. And if they then go all PvP on you, assuming the DM doesn't slap them (i.e. the players) down hard (and he bloody well should be doing if he's set this campaign up like this), punch them out nonlethal, fully justified. Then, drag them off to the nearest temple of Pelor under the unshakable conviction they have been cursed or something (since obviously no paragons of virtue would fall so quickly). Ham it up. Forgive them, keep telling them as your friend you'll stick by them and help them through this tragedy and see the error of their ways. Get the other two players to help you in this. Keep pestering the characters for why they did it. Which should either get you some good roleplaying points or the players saying '"just felt like it" which should earn them the DM's displeasure for not trying to roleplay, messing the game up or both. Try and make them feel really guilty. For extra points, blame yourself for not being able to forsee this or stop it happening and all the other crap heroes do in this sort of situation (try not to go overboard though, since if you take into emo territory, the other players will probably set you bowels on fire.) Either you'll succeed, in which case, good, game back on track (and probably a well-chuffed DM), or you'll at least come out of the ensuing party split smelling of roses, having tried your damnedest to prevent it and having done some good roleplaying to boot. If the entire party decides to go evil against you, though, talk to the DM and explain that as you were expecting a good aligned campaign and since your character is inapporpirate for that now, you will need a new character. (Unless the other players do in reverse to you what I suggested you do to them, in which case go with it and con the DM into giving you some Vile feats in exchange for your Exalted ones (fair's fair, Paladin to Blackguard get replacements, right? You, Mr I'm-Holier-than-most-Paladins, ought to get even more reward from the Dark Powers!) What he said. :) Seriosuly, some of the best advice I have seen offered on these boards in a long time. Have a :cookie: Sir. You earned it.
Arturius1 11-24-07, 12:36 AM	:eek: how are these 2 still getting support from their gods? i have a paladin of heironeous in my group. If he ever said to the group "ya know, I'm thinking of becoming evil", Heironeous wold send down a planetar to smack the holy crap out of him in a hearbeat. After sufficently smacking the holy crap out of him, the planetar would take all of his paladin powers with a "see ya, chump." Then the holy crap-smacking planetar would administer a few righteous bit**-slaps to the torture-endorsing, child-burning cleric of Pelor as well, just for good measure. In seriousness, I suggest you just go with it and try to have as much fun as you can. The DM obviously lets them ignore alignment whenever they want without penalty. So the DM probably likes them (or dosen't understand how alignment works). Openly defying them will only bring wrath down on your head. The paladin hasn't stated a desire to be evil in character. *points at (OOC)* The cleric has never played anything but a warlock before, and none of them were good (alignment and build-wise) so I think the DM's giving him some slack for that.