Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arminel 04-17-06, 07:41 PM	Right now I'm playing in a group of about 9 PCs and a DM. Here's an idea of what we have (All Level 5): -Myself: Male Grey Elven Bard whose musical ability is just barely greater than his sarcasm. Despite some of the wicked Perform checks I've made recently (All within the 32-37 total range) no one in the group looks at my character with any regard due to the fact my first perform check was a 14 total. My character's personality and history associated with it does not always lead to the most logical actions (even in my own mind) but I still try and play the character. He's often reckless and despite an 8 Con and 10 Str has on more than one occasion been the one riding foremost into battle (though he has not been killed it has been close) in front of the warriors and I forget to use his Bluff check ALL THE TIME xO. Also is a Prince of a human Caer due to being taken as a son of a warchief O.o -The Rogue: Male Human Rogue who constantly steals from the party and doesn't share any loot with anyone else. He has about... twice as much stuff in gold as the rest of the party put together (about 40k worth). Right now we don't know the rogue is the rogue due to the fact he took a 20 on his Disguise check and he's supposed to be somewhere far off and remote. The rest of the party in as little detail possible: -Female Assimar Druid- Right now we're in a land that would look closely like the divided kingdoms of the Celts (Barbarian-like but not barbarians) so her value as a Diplomat is very high (as is mine, especially after that 35 Perform check in front of the king >.>). -Female Human Fighter- From the human city of Velice where she served as a soldier for the City of Honor. No personality except her own random personality + "I want to get drunk" and "Let me just chop him in effing half". -Female Elven Fighter- From the Elven nation of Sylandir. Now despite her 10 Charisma and 12 Intelligence her character constantly belittles the actions and intelligence of mine (note: My INT is 18 and my CHA is 21) and uses more out-of-character knowledge and almost blatantly refuses to admit that the musical talent of my character is better than any she's heard thus far (the DM told her this). I couldn't help but laugh as our Rogue stole 1000 gold from her right under her nose and bluffed her into thinking it fell off down the cliff side. </rant> -Female Human Fighter- The daughter of a barbarian king that I befriended and literally single-handedly saved a city from a civil war. Yet her decisions follow that of the Female Elven Fighter because she is her older sister despite the fact the DM has told her that her father thinks very highly of me (and is likely to be wed to me :censored: ) especially after my 37 Perform Check (rolled a natural 20 too). -Homosexual Male Half-Elven Cleric (played by a feminist)- As I call her, this Flaming Right Hand of Heironious, also does about the same as the Elven Fighter but has seen my flair for people skills more than anyone else. -Male Gnomish Cleric of Pelor- Oh my gosh, the little effing zealot. I turned my back in my own Caer and he converted the entire populace to Pelor from Kord. Granted he has saved my neck more than once with a Cure Moderate Wounds but when I was trying to hide from the Drow who had (luckily) missed three shots on me he walked right up to me and said, "Hey Thalandor! Why are you hiding there?!" *another bolt passes by my head* :eek: -Male Half-Elf Sorcerer- Mr. No-Personality Blast ****. I've saved his neck more than three times and yet he still identified a couple items the Rogue found behind our backs for a meekly 200 gold bribe when I told him the Rogue was not to be trusted :tantrum: I've even shown him special attention (read: befriended) because his character was a Half-Elf in an Elven society who was a sorcerer not a wizard (read: rejected). My Rant: It seems my party simply fails. Combat tactics are discussed out-of-game and fall into place without any in-game discussion. The Elven Fighter smacked me in-game in front of a Lord for something I said to the Lord when it was (as the DM put) "the best thing I could've said". No one recognizes the Bard's talent in anything due to three things that happened early in the game (one being a poor Tumble check, another being a poor Perform check, and then when the Bard wandered up a staircase) which was nearly 3-4 months prior in-game. Despite numerous perform checks that could've put a few hundred gold in my pocket, despite Countersong'ing the Hold Person that the evil Cleric tried to cast on the Elven Fighter (which the DM later mentioned was leading up to a Coup de Grace), despite cajoling 3 quarreling Lords into peace and convincing them to raise a united front against a common enemy I get no respect and no praise for the things done. The Elven Fighter is about to lose her pretty +1 Short Sword to me, and though the party bought 2 scrolls of Locate Object (which I carry) I could just as easily slip it into the Rogue's pack, find the sword. And all of a sudden the very scary Bastard Sword/Shortsword wielding Elven Fighter (18 Str, 20 Dex :eek:) will most likely hack the Rogue into pieces. And I will be more than happy to Sound Burst him when he pulls his Dagger of Venom :D. I'm sorry, this should've been on a blog. But any suggestions how my character can gain respect in the eyes of the party? The females in the party have a sort of allied front against the males, and despite excellent diplomatic, musical, and combat supportive abilities shown they constantly harass me.
Koji 04-17-06, 07:49 PM	I'd suggest that the DM actually cut the party into an RP half and a non RP half and run 2 games.
The_Keeper_Of_The_Flame 04-17-06, 07:56 PM	When they are sleeping take all of their stuff and frame them for a robbery in one of the towns and use bluff/perform to get the lord to put them in jail. :D Then when they are in jail go in and say, "You never appreciated me so HA!" When they are let outand try to kill you use their own weapons against them and push the rouge off a cliff. Bard: Yeah you can bungee with this rope.(BLUFF) rouge: Ok.. if you say so.... (Rope snaps) Rouge: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Bard: Oops. :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: Do this to each one in turn and then rez them by selling the rouge's stuff
DM_Greatness 04-17-06, 09:35 PM	Wow! First, I'd say that 9 players is far too many for one mortal DM to honestly handle. However, I think you said about six of those nine players are girls. So, if their hot and single, I'd be playing there also! ... But I know the truth here as much as anyone else. And we all know those girls are that good looking. Honestly, you seem like a good player that is just lookoing for a good game. In fact, you chose a great class. Bards however, need a great DM in a balanced environment to thrive. So sir, although I can't do anything to help you, I do indeed feel your pain. Also have to add that intra party fighting and intra party stealing has no place in an Adult game.
lycanthrope0 04-17-06, 10:20 PM	Also have to add that intra party fighting and intra party stealing has no place in an Adult game. well unless its the untrained fighter stealing from the rogue and just for fun ;)
danielinthewolvesden 04-17-06, 10:20 PM	Try a new character! Have your PC say "Ok, folks, I can see I am not getting the respect I deserve, so I am going to resign from this party. See ya!" Don't steal, and don't kill. There's 9 freaken players, and they may decide to cut it back to 8.
Arminel 04-18-06, 02:27 AM	Wow! First, I'd say that 9 players is far too many for one mortal DM to honestly handle. However, I think you said about six of those nine players are girls. So, if their hot and single, I'd be playing there also! Honestly, you seem like a good player that is just lookoing for a good game. In fact, you chose a great class. Bards however, need a great DM in a balanced environment to thrive. So sir, although I can't do anything to help you, I do indeed feel your pain. One of them is my girlfriend, and the Rogue is my girlfriend's brother. The DM is fantastic and provides a very balanced atmosphere, though I believe he lends to the rogue having more freedom than should be allowed. But then again, there's a story that is known from childhood in most civilizations that a great and terrible curse that has always been brought upon those that would harm a Bard. Why? Because the Bards are telling the tales :D The amount of muscle that our fighters have keep me alive well enough, though they are often short tempered despite the fact Improvisation, Invisibility, Sleep, Alter Self, and Sound Burst can easily enough bring me up to par. When they are sleeping take all of their stuff and frame them for a robbery in one of the towns and use bluff/perform to get the lord to put them in jail. Then when they are in jail go in and say, "You never appreciated me so HA!" When they are let outand try to kill you use their own weapons against them and push the rouge off a cliff. Bard: Yeah you can bungee with this rope.(BLUFF) rouge: Ok.. if you say so.... (Rope snaps) Rouge: Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Bard: Oops. Do this to each one in turn and then rez them by selling the rouge's stuff Next level when I get Suggestion as a class skill I will undoubtedly 1) increase my wealth 2) increase my social standing and possibly 3) get someone to owe me a favor. Especially since the save DC for Fascinate is your Perform check and the DC for Suggestion is 10 + 1/2 Bard Level + Charisma modifier (18). Also have to add that intra party fighting and intra party stealing has no place in an Adult game. This is easily dealt with using Sleep with the non-Elves. Me: "Look, the rogue is casting sleep on you!" (Bluff as the Rogue's hands go up instinctfully) Fighter: "I'm going to murder you!" Me: *casts Sleep on Fighter, easily succeeds* "Let's just put her on a horse for now" <__<
danielinthewolvesden 04-18-06, 11:12 AM	This is easily dealt with using Sleep with the non-Elves. The Sleep spell doesn't work on your fellow players. :rolleyes:
swindy 04-18-06, 01:18 PM	What you could do is not to do anything at all. OK they might like you less, but then again they might actually see what you bring in to the party. Also, i reccomend the spell glibness if you can get it anytime soon. +30 to bluff. I think my olde barde, used it and conned a warlord into giving up his kingdom with a little tale of how big our army is and such other things. 53 bluff against hardly any sense motive convinced him. Just con them all in to doing things for you or trick them, like "Rogue! Theres a firew mephit sneaking inside your back pack! Open it and tip it out so we can kill it before it kills you!" Outcome all the precious things he stole. Party beats up the rogue. Everyone likes you cos they have some cool stuff and a bleeding rogue. just an idea.
Elec 04-18-06, 02:51 PM	Arminel, did you honestly think I wouldn't find this post? Anyway, I'm proud to say that I'm the rogue in this (rather insane) band of adventurers, and I can, from a roleplaying standpoint, justify every action my rogue has undertaken. Sometimes I honestly don't want to screw the party over, whether its because I'm in a generous mood or because I don't feel like getting beat on in real life, but I still have to do what I think my character would do in the situation, more often then not that involves screwing the party over in some way. Let me ask the rest of you a question. If you were in a non-lawful rogue in this group, who are constantly at odds with eachother in one way or another what would you do? Would you A) try to promote party unity or B) keep them at odds with eachother to keep them from paying much attention to you, thereby allowing you to get the best loot. Honestly, what would you do? Also, good luck implementing any of their plans to get back at me, or screw me over, since your character 1) doesn't know my character is actually Elec in disguise, and 2) doesn't know that I've got all these gold and items. So unfortunately, anything you try to do to me would be using meta-game knowledge, and we both know how much our DM hates that ;)
Asciiman 04-18-06, 03:49 PM	Wow... what a retarded sounding group. Honestly how petty is everyone. This is a group that doesn't even WANT to work together. At this point I imagine that the only way to save it is to wipe it clean. Everyone starts over.
Elec 04-18-06, 03:57 PM	Aw... I love how this group is doing. Of course... that might have something to do with the mounds and mounds of gold I'm making off of them :D Honestly though, the group isn't that bad, we're just missing a strong leading figure. Arminel, the bard, would have been a good choice, but some stupid actions on his part (like wandering off to a vampires island on his own, not to mention the fact that he always seems to say the wrong thing) prevented him from being someone the rest of the party could trust. I would have been a good leader, but my character's personality and background prevent me from playing him that way (its just not something he would do). My sister's character, the druid, would also be a decent leader, but this is her first game, and shes just getting the hang of the way everything works, not to mention her characters background made it difficult to be a leader. Any one of the fighters could have done it too, but they all lack a personality strong enough to really lead. Thats why we're in this situation. That idea about splitting the party into two seperate groups is a good idea (though it'd be nice to switch people around every once in a while (like have two DM's running games in the same world, and have the parties know of eachother, and occasionaly work together)) Hey Arminel, maybe we should start a seperate group that can meet more often (its getting difficult to get everyone together). Either you or I could DM, and I'm pretty sure my sis would play too, but another one or two people would be best...
gwenlock 04-18-06, 04:44 PM	I agree with other posters that say that 9 players is simply too many. I have a group of 7 that I run and I sometimes have trouble keeping things focused even when everyone is behaving- haha- it's just the nature of having that many "heroes" in a group. Unless you have a DM that can keep things moving quickly, I would get bored waiting 9 rounds til my turn. If your group chooses to stay at 9, it may help if your group elects a party leader and let them make the decisions and follow them unerringly. My group elected two tactical leaders that work together well and we also elected a mouthpiece (our diplomat, so to speek) and we even drew up a party charter. The leaders usually come up with a plan and give the other a chance to pipe in and then they make a decsion and everyone follows. Works out pretty well. Also, in my husbands' game, I played a 10th level bard in a group of only 5 and on occassion, I felt as though I did not got the respect that I deserved. The bard will always get made fun of so just laugh along with them- don't get upset. They are probably just jealous! I also found that the more smug I was about it, the worse it got. So my advice to you is to just be the cool guy and don't worry about it- just do your thing and eventually, as you get higher in level, they will begin to see what an asset you are. Also, I kind of realized how lame it was that I was expecting praise. Besides, if your are truly good, you shouldn't expect praise- you should be happy knowing that you did you best to help others. Oh and even though you might be brave and willing to jump right into battle in your own mind, don't do it as a bard. Stay in the back and ease your way up if you are needed. For a bard, it's better to be smart and cautious and to be the helper. I got killed 3 times before level 6 because I (myself) was the most gungho of the group while our tanks picked their noses. And don't ever let them talk you into meeting the half orc informant in the dark alley by yourself while they hide "in case anything happens"- yeah- i got chopped in half before i even got to "hello"- hahahah! Also, the Silent Sound spell from the Eldritch Might Books (can't remember the exact name of the book) is pretty cool. That's my "magic missile". That seems to impress the others- hahah! As far as the rogue thing, certainly others should be noticing that things are missing and that should be raising susupions. The party should be discussing this and doing something about it (ie: confronting "the rogue" or killing it if it comes down to it). Hope this helps! :)
teclis 04-18-06, 07:35 PM	elec, I want to remind you that D&D is about having fun, not just you, all the players. you chose to play a rogue that is interested in getting rich, when you could have chosen to play a CG robin hood figure, highly chaotic, but very interested in party unity. what your character does is STILL your responcibility. if your character is an ass, it's your fault, and "I'm roleplaying!" "My character would do that" isn't always a good excuse. if everyone's laughing, your doing well, if everyone's disgruntled, and some are upset, then your mucking up your D&D session. that said, OP, if your the odd man out, then your the odd man out, adapt your playstyle, ask your friends to change their behavior, or find a different group.
DIESCUMDIE 04-18-06, 08:14 PM	This is exactly why you shouldn't believe anyone when they say they are a good roleplayer. I'll feel sorry for the people who have to deal with all these attention seeking exhibitiontists Npc's attitudes can be altered with good dice rolls. Players attitudes cannot. Even then if they have orders they might not stray from them. A player is allowed to on a grudge think a character is not on the level, whatever he rolls. He should waive this in relation to the dm,s mistakes but not his own judgement. It seems to me you are colluding with the dm to try to control other players characters decisions, no wonder they don't like your character.
danielinthewolvesden 04-18-06, 09:02 PM	Anyway, I'm proud to say that I'm the rogue in this (rather insane) band of adventurers, and I can, from a roleplaying standpoint, justify every action my rogue has undertaken. Sometimes I honestly don't want to screw the party over, whether its because I'm in a generous mood or because I don't feel like getting beat on in real life, but I still have to do what I think my character would do in the situation, more often then not that involves screwing the party over in some way. Let me ask the rest of you a question. If you were in a non-lawful rogue in this group, who are constantly at odds with eachother in one way or another what would you do? And, who forced you to decide that your rogue was going to be Chaotic, and be a Sociopath? I'll bet a nickle it was you, and no one else. Thus, feeble attempts to says "it's roleplaying" are bogus. YOU have decided to be disruptive. I hope your DM reads this and boots the both of you. Then everyone else can have fun.
Elec 04-18-06, 09:16 PM	I like to start by saying the my Rogue is, in fact, not a sociopath. Actually, most of the time he helps the party in their endeavors. The worst thing I've done directly to a party member is stealing a thousand gold off them, and that was only once, and it was after I had disarmed five traps and pretty much single-handedly got the party across a ten-foot gap in a bridge (no-one spent skill points in Jump, so I had to jump across and set up a system of ropes and harnesses to get them all over safely). Then, while I'm tying the harness around the last person, I stole a bit of gold off of them, they were the only person on that side of the hole left (other then the bard, who was busy singing or playing to enhance our skill checks). They did notice that the gold was missing, which is when I came up with the "it-fell-off-the-bridge" excuse, and since I'm technically hired help at this point (not really), they're going to dock my pay for the amount in the sack, its not like I get away with every scott-free, there are always consequences for my actions (which is precisely why I'm diguised as another rogue right now, cause they got rather peeved at my old persona when I went about doing something in a way the party didn't like). Most of the other items and gold I've gotten haven't been stolen off of the rest of the party, but looted off of corpses, because the rest of the party doesn't pay good enough attention after a fight. Also, I don't think Arminel said, but there is supposed to be a member of the party that betrays the rest of them (you know, random-profecy-thing). I'm not saying that I am that person, but someone will betray the party. Finally: most of the things mentioned so far have been the extreme things I've done. Most of the time I'm helping out the party (after all, it is in my best interest), even if I sometimes go about it in a wierd way. Edit: Oh yeah, and my rogue's goal isn't to get rich. The money I'm getting right now is just a part of his plan to get revenge on someone (not in the party, its someone who wronged him in the past). Edit 2 (dang, I keep forgetting stuff): Plus, I don't really think Arminel is very mad about our play group's situation (and I'm really not, I love DnD). We have a great deal of fun in the group, there is some friction, granted, but we all take it in stride, as it is, after all, only a game.
Arminel 04-19-06, 12:27 AM	Plus, I don't really think Arminel is very mad about our play group's situation (and I'm really not, I love DnD). We have a great deal of fun in the group, there is some friction, granted, but we all take it in stride, as it is, after all, only a game. Truly it isn't as bad as I make it seem to be. Sometimes it builds on me and this was more of a rant that people might identify with (and those who do thank you).
gwenlock 04-19-06, 01:50 AM	Elec, are you sure you are not a kender? You sure like to justify your naughtiness! :) If your gonna be a bad boy, then do it balls out- you don't have to esplain yourself- you're a rogue! Haha! Actually, I didn't catch your alignment- I would guess chaotic neutral or chaotic evil from what i've heard already. Whatever it is, the party will just have to deal with it- if the other PCs don't like what's happening, they should act on it. We had a similar rogue character in my husband's game and my husband almost made our paladin change his alignment or become an ex-paladin for knowing about the rogue's evil deeds and not doing or saying anything about it. He just let it continue even though he knew something was going on. It made for some interesting roleplaying and it adds an interesting dynamic to the game when they have to deal with one of their own. Arminel- I know what you mean- It's like I try my best not to make a big hooha about not gettin' my bard props but every once in a while it just comes to a head and you gotta vent. Just keep on rockin'!
Vaelan 04-19-06, 05:14 AM	Let me ask the rest of you a question. If you were in a non-lawful rogue in this group, who are constantly at odds with eachother in one way or another what would you do? Try to get out of the Rogue? It sounds rather uncomfortable. Would you A) try to promote party unity or B) keep them at odds with eachother to keep them from paying much attention to you, thereby allowing you to get the best loot. Honestly, what would you do? Try to promote party unity. Why would I want the best loot?
Max Octavious Xavier 04-19-06, 01:24 PM	First, I think this thread would be relavent to this discussion, it's more or less about the bluff skill. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8860566#post8860566 9 players is too many, particularly without a strong leader (I'm talking player, not character). Elec, this is a game where YOU decide your charcters actions. Saying; Elec: ...I still have to do what I think my character would do in the situation...is bogus. Elec: Anyway, I'm proud to say that I'm the rogue in this (rather insane) band of adventurersYou choose to play a bastard (the character, not the player - just want that to be clear) and are enjoying messing with the other characters. I would guess you are young. When I was younger (oh my, has it really been 20+ years) I played an elf thief who thought like that. I'm a thief, I'm supposed to steal from the other players. I too thought they couldn't get along without me. I too thought I helped the party more than I hurt them. I didn't steal directly from them, I just skimmed the best loot. So, after my character got incompacitated (Soul Gem from the Ghost tower of Inverness module) the entire party left me behind instead of going to just a little effort to bring me back. Wow was that a wakeup call. Let me ask the rest of you a question. If you were in a non-lawful rogue in this group, who are constantly at odds with eachother in one way or another what would you do? Would you A) try to promote party unity or B) keep them at odds with eachother to keep them from paying much attention to you, thereby allowing you to get the best loot. Honestly, what would you do? Well, I would NOT steal from the people who might one day have to decide to save my life or not.
Lincoln Hills 04-22-06, 08:50 PM	I suppose (logically speaking) that if stealing objects from another PC is 'fun', doing it thirty times in succession is even more fun. I sure hope the party's fighters don't decide, "Well, decapitating other peoples' characters is fun... so decapitating thirty of their characters..."
KnightErrant 04-22-06, 10:21 PM	*quickly adds house rules against stealing from other party members and party looting* My advice is to have the DM split the party in half. roleplay/nonroleplay.
taradusis 04-23-06, 10:12 PM	In 1st ed. you could only play heros of a good alignment,following this rule makes for a more heroic style of play.People who betray their freinds have no freinds and their enemies lose respect for you as well,being used as a catspaw by something like a mindflayer that kills you when it's done with you is prophetic and poetic justice in your case ELEC.Bard is a tough class to play and hardly worth the bother,some parties rob any c/n gnome bard that shows up and leave them tied up by the road naked :) I suggest playing a specialist rather than a generalist,people who specialize get more respect for their skills,may I suggest a fighter build that out-performs the others,paladin or ranger?
bholdr_mage 04-25-06, 11:37 PM	I have honestly seen players left behind for playing characters that stole from the group, lied to the group, and/or betrayed the group in some way. That's right...the PLAYERS were left behind. As in the rest of the group didn't want to play with that disturbing player any more. You see, it's much like monopoly; in the fact that you might take an extra $20 every time you pass go, just so you can buy more and "have fun." Most adult players are going to look at you and laugh; then turn their backs to find more mature gamers that build characters who get along with a "team-mindset" group of gamers. Sure, you say you just take "the magic crap from dead bodies." But that "actually" belongs to the party. A DM calculates all gold, magic, and any other material asset or helpful asset in the campaign per level. This helps DMs achieve a close balance. If the rogue has 60% of the magic items in a party of 9 characters...the party is NOT balanced. Again: every copper, longsword, painting, keep, or horse belongs to the party regardless of where that asset came from. You may think that if you grab a GP you gain a GP. But if you kill an orc, does your character get ALL that experience or does the party? FYI, rules as written, the PARTY is supposed to gain the experience evenly. Just because you have ranks in jump and the fighter doesn't; doesn't mean you get more gold just because you have skill points. Nor does it mean that the fighter should get more "stuff" just for having the right feat in a certain situation. DnD is about everyone in the group having fun. That's really the bottom line...but, it is hard to get everyone else in a group to have fun if one person is the main character and everyone else in the group are cohorts. So stop hogging the lime-light...it might help your game immensly, even if you think your game doesn't need help. I've agreed with most on here. 9 is too many players. 4-5 is the best under most circumstances.
Arminel 04-26-06, 02:33 AM	Well we just had another session which got better. The rogue Dante got discovered as Elec who had two bouts of luck with my Sleep spell, though uncovering his deceit without metagaming was a hell of a lot of fun. Also, I was within 2 of using a wicked ancient artifact (I rolled 16 + 15 + 2) that had a DC35. When the party spotted me doing this they went "OMG THE BARD IS BEING STUPID!" and I used a Perform (Acting) to make it look like I was shaking tremendously (my hand had turned yellow) and when the yellow started turning red (red = fire + low hit points = bad) I pulled my hand away. Now there had been a trap earlier that activated by trying to decipher the meaning of the rune. I bluffed the party (32 Bluff check) that when read by someone who is not meant to use it, the artifact draws the user in and tries to destroy the user so as to protect the object. I had fun, the rogue got caught, and no blame on me! =D The group will be getting smaller, if only by a bit. In a month of two the Flaming Right Hand of Pelor is going off to college (yay~?) and the other Cleric in the party will be focusing on his capstone for his major (Drama). That means we are out both clerics, leaving the healing in the party up to me and the druid. :eek:
BeerMan5000 04-26-06, 07:56 AM	Also have to add that intra party fighting and intra party stealing has no place in an Adult game. Couldn't disagree more, but I'm sure this has already been discussed mutliple times on this board. Anyway, well man, it wouldn't be the first time a Bard got the short end of the stick. As for the thief with twice as much gold as everyone else... he's a thief, that's what they do. Thieves, IMO, are often one of the most under appreciated classes around. Repeatedly, they save the day, and repeatedly they get the shaft. Actions like that fighter getting slappy and trying to bully the party don't help. If the thief is getting the upper hand in pilfered gains, my best suggestion is to buddy up with him. If he's taking things without the PC's knowledge, then nothing happened. ie, no one saw it, you didn't see it, so you shouldn't start plotting revenge for a slight your character isn't aware of. Pretend it didn't happen and that he's playing straight because you don't have any reason to believe otherwise. If he starts spending loot out in the open like crazy and obviously touting crazy money, then simply say, "How on earth did you afford all that?" If he answers you then ask the DM for a bluff check. Simple as that. If you catch him in the lie, just ask point blank, "Are you stealing from the group?" Ask for another bluff check. If you catch him here, then it's time to bring it to the rest of the parties attention. Disguise helps you look different, but really after days and days of adventuring eventually you are going to see him without his disguise on. Also, isn't there a modifier for using disguise against people who know you very well? As for the 20 dex and 18 con fighter... ugh. that's all I can say. It sounds wonky and cheatyish to me. But don't get mad and start exacting revenge on everyone and everything. Tell that fighter straight up if she ever lays a hand on you again, she'll regret it for the rest of her life. Then all that's required is that you back it up. Like convince the local government that she's trying to start a revolt or attempting to undermine the provincial authority, etc. Go to seedy taverns and sing songs and compose humous poetry decrying her lack of personal hygiene and acts "more than a little unlady like"... if you catch my drift. use your powers over people to your own advantage. Hopefully the songs, limerick's and poetry will catch on and she will be a social pariah with people overcharging her for goods or refusing her business. I know it sounds childish, but everyone's up for a good laugh at someone else's expense.
Edwind 04-26-06, 01:36 PM	I disagree with Beerman, yes he's a theive but he's supposed to be stealing from the OTHER people. Having constant IC negative things within the party just slows down the game and makes it no fun for them. Random once or twice, yes, it would be fun or enjoyable. IMO I'd just cut some of the more disruptive players. 9 is too much. I'd give them a warning first, then maybe a game or 2 ban, then if they come back and still act like that I'd just ask them to leave. Although I DO agree with standing up for yourself. Acouple players in my game say bards are nothing but prancy people in tights that sing or dance so I know whats going on. I'd take the above advice and tell them off IC. Like this one time in a game with one of the characters that were dissing the bard. He was a fighter with like a 10 INT, but he'd always undermind my wizard at every turn. He'd steal the glory and tell everyone what to do. I finally told him IC "**** off we don't have to do that cause you say so." He drew his sword and I threw him across the room and out the window with Telekinesis. Simply put, if you do confront the fighter(s) make sure you have suggestion or fasinate ready to play when they start to thurst for blood.
taradusis 04-26-06, 01:55 PM	Does your party have a leader?A kitty for group purchases?Assigned tasks?Perhaps your group could have a meeting about being a group instead of a collection of individuals? Not to be sarcastic but a lot of groups fail simply because of a lack of leadership and organization,too bad you're losing two of your best(my opinion).Still with fewer warm bodies at the table maybe you can talk the leftovers into acting like a well-oiled swat team and less like the gang who couldn't shoot straight.When you talk to your group be more diplomatic than I've been!! :)
BeerMan5000 04-26-06, 02:26 PM	Well, I wouldn't necessarily go looking for a fight, just tarnish her Rep to a point that people from miles around know her by folklore alone and shun her like the plague. Bards make excellent tabloid journalists. Never underestimate the power of a dirty rumor. Just keep making stuff up: 1. She ran her parents off their farm so she could sell it to buy her horse. 2. She ran the impoverished sword maker of the sword she's carrying through because he refused to let her have it for half price. 3. She got mummy rot in an embarassing place after seducing a lich to make her more beautiful. (doesn't have to be rational) 4. She slaughtered a village of kind and harmless fey so that she could bathe in their blood to make her younger. 5. She sold her far more beautiful younger sisters, whom she was jealous of, to be part of an orc chief's harem in exchange for the armor she now wears. (describe the armor in great detail). 6. She was a mercenary for a temple of <insert god of disease here>, whom she secretly worships. 7. Her evil diety in part 6 granted her immunity to <insert horrible disease> but also made her a carrier of it for the rest of her days. She delights in spreading it to men of virtue so that they will spread it in turn to their good wholesome families. (nothing says, no vacancy, like being known to have the plague) 8. She is an incompetant fighter, who is often defeated in battle and must rely on being rescued by good hearted, though easily dupped, fighters. 9. The only method of fighting she is proficient at is murdering men she has seduced in their sleep. 10. She once lost a fight to a burly village idiot who refused her advances. As an act of revenge his parents she had put to the noose for trumped up charges of cannibalism. Write a poem or song like that for every one of those rumors and perform it all over town for weeks. Hell, make all the stories into one long epic that you play for free all over town (in disguise of course) because you cannot bare to see another innocent person fall victim to this vile succubus. Though it pains you to tell this tale as you were once the betrothed of her fair young sister. If they don't lynch her outright she won't get a moments peace as soon as people hear her name.
hmmmm 04-26-06, 03:17 PM	My God what a bunch of screw balls, I mean partys are supposed to be built around keeping the party together not ripping it apart. I bet your DM crys before going to sleep just at the thought of what he has to face the next game session. Any way, I think that you need to have a converstaion with your group on how things are going as they seem to be getting better but could fall apart at any moment.
BeerMan5000 04-26-06, 04:38 PM	People gotta start somewhere. Not all players are in for the feel good high that comes along with working together as a team. Some of us just like to further condemn ourselves to hell. But he does have a point. Your group is pretty messed up. If I were you, I'd completely forget about trying to impress the rest of the group. They aren't going to like your character as they largely see you as something of a sideshow. Apparently anyway. Just because someone's a good musician doesn't mean everyone has to like them. This is probably why the thief started in with the intra party pilfering and hiding loot. One, stop trying to impress the party. Two, enjoy being the underdog. Three, you'd be surprised what you can get away with when no one takes you seriously.
Arminel 04-27-06, 01:13 AM	Thanks a ton to everyone who has given me ideas, a lot of it is truely invaluable. One of the problems I find is that even when I try and pull a character aside, the rogue almost always decides to tail us to listen in. Now that's meta-gaming if you ask me. Also, I have a good Spot/Listen check to oppose his Hide/Move Silently (13/13 to his 12/12) but he is extremely lucky with his rolls (note: most the time we simply have to trust what he rolled, he does it in front of himself rather than everyone in the party). One time I cast Invisibility and started took 20 on my Search check but the rogue convinced the DM that it was meta-gaming. I, however, said that because of the suspicious nature the character had exhibited in the past, I was not metagaming because my character was being cautious and didn't want to be overheard. Now a lot of people in my group are new to the game, or at least new to a more freeform format (including myself) so a lot of things can be forgiven. The misgiving that I'm having at this point is the fact that out-of-game I get blamed for things my character does. Now I wrote a very detailed and elaborate personality and history for my character because I like having a very well fleshed out character, and while the others have histories for their characters, they fail to take into account what their character might do because of their history.
BeerMan5000 04-27-06, 03:07 AM	xx
BeerMan5000 04-27-06, 03:23 AM	Ok, you're a level 5 elven bard. Low con, low str, but I assume your dex and cha are pretty good. What's your cash situation? I might make some equipment suggestions. Or if you have time, write up your character, explain your bad situation and post it in the character optimization area. At any rate, the other players can't follow you everywhere. Does the party sleep in the INN? Or does the party sleep out under the moonlight? Do you guys typically operate out of cities or typically hang out in the wilderness or small towns and villages?
Arminel 04-27-06, 05:31 AM	Ok, you're a level 5 elven bard. Low con, low str, but I assume your dex and cha are pretty good. What's your cash situation? I might make some equipment suggestions. Or if you have time, write up your character, explain your bad situation and post it in the character optimization area. At any rate, the other players can't follow you everywhere. Does the party sleep in the INN? Or does the party sleep out under the moonlight? Do you guys typically operate out of cities or typically hang out in the wilderness or small towns and villages? Lol, already did xP http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=623577
hmmmm 04-27-06, 08:01 AM	If it doesn't get any better I would say, Leave them and find a new group. You could go asking around at your work or even post something on these boards. This is a suggestion to only if you want to leave or the group is collapsing into certain chaos.