Half Orc Barb.. are sorc levels a waste? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Half Orc Barb.. are sorc levels a waste? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jage
03-16-08, 03:11 PM I'm building a half-orc barbarian as a stand in fighter for an upcoming session.

AFTER racial mods only:
STR 17
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 11
WIS 14
CON 11

I'm building a level 10 but could probably argue a level 12 since he's standing in for a game. I'm looking to have some fun as I don't usually play tanks or fighters.

I'm planning to try to max crits (using a keen great sword +3) and damage.

So my (only) questions are:
Would taking 2 Sorcerer levels (9th and 10th or 11th and 12th) be a waste?
Is there a substantial difference between being 8th/2nd and 10th/2nd that makes it worth asking for a 12th level build?

The alternative would be a pure barbarian straight from PHB.
Merestil Haye
03-16-08, 04:46 PM 2 levels of sorcerer gains you 2d4hp, +1 BAB, +0 Fort, +0 Ref, +3 Will, 4 skill points on a skill list related to arcane spellcastiing, the ability to cast 6 0-level and 4 1st level spells, of which you know 5 0-level spells and 2 1st.

Going from Bbn 8 to Bbn 10 you gain +2d12hp, +2 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will, 8 skill points to enhance existing skills, +1 Trap Sense and a 1-point increase in DR.

Going from Bbn 10 to Bbn 12 you gain +2d12hp, +2 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will, 8 skill points to enhance existing skills, Greater Rage, 1 additional rage per day and +1 Trap Sense.

I'd play a Bbn 12 over Bbn 10/Sor 2 any day of the week. I don't think that a few sorcerer spells that you can't use in a rage and +2 to Will saves make up for the loss of Greater Rage. (Trap Sense doesn't really count one way or another, unless its the only difference between two choices).

The answer is slightly less clear-cut if the character is 10th level. The gain to Will saves and the spells might outweigh the lost BAB, Fort, Ref, hitpoints and point of DR, even with the inability to combine the two class features. It depends on your concept. I think in the end I'd play the Bbn 8 / Sor 2 with Shield and True Strike as my spells of choice (No save, no SR, almost guaranteed effective).
StevenO
03-16-08, 06:02 PM Generally, sorcerer levels at that point in time would be a waste.

If I were to use Sorcerer with Barbarian it would be for the spell requirement to enter the Dragon Disciple PrC. A full Power Attack with True Strike aid can be pretty brutal. Of course I'd much rather use Duskblade instead for that little bit of spellcasting.

You don't have the CHA to make the other use of Barbarian/Sorcerer work but then most half orcs don't. For a 12 level build I could see Barbarian6/arcanist1/AbjurantChampion5. Here you would be trading those six levels of Barbarian goodies (DR and Greater Rage being the big ones) plus +1 BAB for six casting levels in an arcane class and some nice self buffing abilities. Using that build at the start of combat you can throw up a quickened Shield spell that gives you a +9 AC boost lasting 12 rounds. A level 10 build would probably mean cutting two levels of AbC which would lower that to a +7/8round AC boost.
Nephlite
03-16-08, 06:17 PM I'm building a half-orc barbarian as a stand in fighter for an upcoming session.

AFTER racial mods only:
STR 17
DEX 14
CON 15
INT 11
WIS 14
CON 11

I'm building a level 10 but could probably argue a level 12 since he's standing in for a game. I'm looking to have some fun as I don't usually play tanks or fighters.

I'm planning to try to max crits (using a keen great sword +3) and damage.

So my (only) questions are:
Would taking 2 Sorcerer levels (9th and 10th or 11th and 12th) be a waste?
Is there a substantial difference between being 8th/2nd and 10th/2nd that makes it worth asking for a 12th level build?

The alternative would be a pure barbarian straight from PHB.

Sorceror uses Charisma. You could only get 1st level spells with 11 Charisma. Now a level in Sorceror helps you qualify for Dragon Deciple which is a decent melee Prc (requires a Spontanous caster level thus Sorceror 1 or Bard 1).

Gives True Strike spell.
Really, Cleric is a better caster class if you need to multiclass into magic: you have 14 Wisdom. And Clerics cast in armor with no penalty.
Ace_of_time
03-16-08, 08:03 PM I would really go duskblade instead. High HP better BAB and you would get to cast spells through that big sword of your. If it is just a fill in you wouldn't worry about pro class but another +8 to str would be sweet you would get +2cha also plus it is still d12 for them and bonus casting for duskblade.

I would go dusk2/bar8 and pick up DD if you keep the PC. Might want to switch to the rage in the UA rage ability. Most like it better.
jage
03-16-08, 08:05 PM Yeah good info everyone thanks. I don't need caster abilities, I just usually play a rogue or archer so I thought I might play with sorcerer spells a bit- it fits better with a barb background than wizard. The party already has a cleric so I didn't consider that.

I've decided to go pure barb and keep it simple. 11 is pretty good in INT, I kind of wish I had a lower score so I could play it "Me Smash", but I suppose I'll live. :P I'm sticking with illiteracy but I'm planning to fake it if it ever comes up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jage 03-16-08, 03:11 PM	I'm building a half-orc barbarian as a stand in fighter for an upcoming session. AFTER racial mods only: STR 17 DEX 14 CON 15 INT 11 WIS 14 CON 11 I'm building a level 10 but could probably argue a level 12 since he's standing in for a game. I'm looking to have some fun as I don't usually play tanks or fighters. I'm planning to try to max crits (using a keen great sword +3) and damage. So my (only) questions are: Would taking 2 Sorcerer levels (9th and 10th or 11th and 12th) be a waste? Is there a substantial difference between being 8th/2nd and 10th/2nd that makes it worth asking for a 12th level build? The alternative would be a pure barbarian straight from PHB.
Merestil Haye 03-16-08, 04:46 PM	2 levels of sorcerer gains you 2d4hp, +1 BAB, +0 Fort, +0 Ref, +3 Will, 4 skill points on a skill list related to arcane spellcastiing, the ability to cast 6 0-level and 4 1st level spells, of which you know 5 0-level spells and 2 1st. Going from Bbn 8 to Bbn 10 you gain +2d12hp, +2 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will, 8 skill points to enhance existing skills, +1 Trap Sense and a 1-point increase in DR. Going from Bbn 10 to Bbn 12 you gain +2d12hp, +2 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will, 8 skill points to enhance existing skills, Greater Rage, 1 additional rage per day and +1 Trap Sense. I'd play a Bbn 12 over Bbn 10/Sor 2 any day of the week. I don't think that a few sorcerer spells that you can't use in a rage and +2 to Will saves make up for the loss of Greater Rage. (Trap Sense doesn't really count one way or another, unless its the only difference between two choices). The answer is slightly less clear-cut if the character is 10th level. The gain to Will saves and the spells might outweigh the lost BAB, Fort, Ref, hitpoints and point of DR, even with the inability to combine the two class features. It depends on your concept. I think in the end I'd play the Bbn 8 / Sor 2 with Shield and True Strike as my spells of choice (No save, no SR, almost guaranteed effective).
StevenO 03-16-08, 06:02 PM	Generally, sorcerer levels at that point in time would be a waste. If I were to use Sorcerer with Barbarian it would be for the spell requirement to enter the Dragon Disciple PrC. A full Power Attack with True Strike aid can be pretty brutal. Of course I'd much rather use Duskblade instead for that little bit of spellcasting. You don't have the CHA to make the other use of Barbarian/Sorcerer work but then most half orcs don't. For a 12 level build I could see Barbarian6/arcanist1/AbjurantChampion5. Here you would be trading those six levels of Barbarian goodies (DR and Greater Rage being the big ones) plus +1 BAB for six casting levels in an arcane class and some nice self buffing abilities. Using that build at the start of combat you can throw up a quickened Shield spell that gives you a +9 AC boost lasting 12 rounds. A level 10 build would probably mean cutting two levels of AbC which would lower that to a +7/8round AC boost.
Nephlite 03-16-08, 06:17 PM	I'm building a half-orc barbarian as a stand in fighter for an upcoming session. AFTER racial mods only: STR 17 DEX 14 CON 15 INT 11 WIS 14 CON 11 I'm building a level 10 but could probably argue a level 12 since he's standing in for a game. I'm looking to have some fun as I don't usually play tanks or fighters. I'm planning to try to max crits (using a keen great sword +3) and damage. So my (only) questions are: Would taking 2 Sorcerer levels (9th and 10th or 11th and 12th) be a waste? Is there a substantial difference between being 8th/2nd and 10th/2nd that makes it worth asking for a 12th level build? The alternative would be a pure barbarian straight from PHB. Sorceror uses Charisma. You could only get 1st level spells with 11 Charisma. Now a level in Sorceror helps you qualify for Dragon Deciple which is a decent melee Prc (requires a Spontanous caster level thus Sorceror 1 or Bard 1). Gives True Strike spell. Really, Cleric is a better caster class if you need to multiclass into magic: you have 14 Wisdom. And Clerics cast in armor with no penalty.
Ace_of_time 03-16-08, 08:03 PM	I would really go duskblade instead. High HP better BAB and you would get to cast spells through that big sword of your. If it is just a fill in you wouldn't worry about pro class but another +8 to str would be sweet you would get +2cha also plus it is still d12 for them and bonus casting for duskblade. I would go dusk2/bar8 and pick up DD if you keep the PC. Might want to switch to the rage in the UA rage ability. Most like it better.
jage 03-16-08, 08:05 PM	Yeah good info everyone thanks. I don't need caster abilities, I just usually play a rogue or archer so I thought I might play with sorcerer spells a bit- it fits better with a barb background than wizard. The party already has a cleric so I didn't consider that. I've decided to go pure barb and keep it simple. 11 is pretty good in INT, I kind of wish I had a lower score so I could play it "Me Smash", but I suppose I'll live. :P I'm sticking with illiteracy but I'm planning to fake it if it ever comes up.