Halfling Rogue/Fighter Woes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Halfling Rogue/Fighter Woes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
uniquenamessuck
03-30-04, 09:57 AM First, I would like to start of by saying that the games I play in are all about "roll-playing". All our encounters are combat and above average CRs.

Now I need some advice. I'm feeling fairly useless with my current character. I have created a halfling rogue/fighter. It's a Strongheart Halfling from FR (1 extra feat @ 1st level). Right now he's only 1st level, so there's no fighter levels. IIRC he's got a +1 str, +4 dex, & +1 con.

I had originally created this character in 3.0 (though not a Strongheart), and he was pretty cool. But in 3.5, with the 25% reduction in damage, I'm feeling a little uneasy about him.

The original plan was to be a dagger maniac. Two weapon fighting, weapon finesse, weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved critical, point blank shot, quickdraw. Basically throwing and fighting with 2 daggers, as well as rogue levels for sneak attack.

Well the first feat I took was improved initiative. I accidentally took weapon finesse as my second feat. I had completely forgotten that weapon finesse requires a BAB +1. This may be the straw that breaks the camels back. For the entire first session I was using the weapon finesse feat. The shameful thing is that the party would be doing just as well if my character wasn't even there. I haven't had much opportunity to flank. Even when I do win initiative, I'm not close enough to sneak attack. I'm one of 2 out of 5 characters that have no dark vision, so for some reason I end up holding the torch, and end up in the middle of the party. Moving only 20' doesn't really help me get into flanking positions either.

I obviously need to replace the weapon finesse feat. I was thinking about taking two weapon fighting, though it won't be useful to me for a couple of levels. There really aren't many good feats that I can take. I fear that without weapon finesse, the only value my character will add to the party is being the butt of the "let's use the halfling as a weapon" jokes.

Any advice for a struggling halfling? Should I just give up the character and go down in a blaze of glory?
SmiloDan
03-30-04, 10:13 AM Go with Point Blank Shot. Grab a long bow. Get Rapid Shot at 2nd level as your 1st level fighter feat. Get a mighty (+1) composite longbow as soon as possible. You'll be doing 1d6+2 twice a round, +1d6 each if you win initiative and are within 30 feet. And with your Dex bonus, PBS, and size bonus, your ranged attack bonus at 1st level will be +6 to those within 30 feet. +7 if you get a masterwork or magic bow.

At 2nd level, your ranged attack bonus will be +7 or +5/+5 with a full attack action. +8 or +6/+6 with mw or magic. Take fighter at 3rd level and get Precise Shot and Weapon Focus. Get a masterwork or magic small-sized longbow and your attack bonus will be +9 or +7/+7 at 3rd level.

Ranged combat can really rock. You can hurt the BBEGs, and they often don't have effective ranged combat abilities. Archey isn't ideal for many dungeon environments, but that's when you use your small greatsword (1d10+1+1d6 sneak attack) at 2nd level.
Max out tumble so you can flank often.
Become best friends with the mage or bard with Cat's Grace.

This guy could still rock!
Sir_Jack_Sparrow
03-30-04, 10:27 AM I had a similar problem with with a ranger i made, we would get into combat and i was the big fat suck, but once i got up there in levels and started getting multiple attacks and the feats started comming together well now i rock.

the thing is most characters that are well planned out suck at the beginning, but once it comes together its great. you just have tow ait this stuff out.
rmiller_nub
03-30-04, 02:33 PM One thing I'm confused on. How con you can't sneak attack when you win initiative. Remember you are flat-footed until you initiative occurs. So if your halfing wins initiative you should be able to get your sneak attack in.
uniquenamessuck
03-30-04, 04:31 PM Originally posted by rmiller_nub
One thing I'm confused on. How con you can't sneak attack when you win initiative. Remember you are flat-footed until you initiative occurs. So if your halfing wins initiative you should be able to get your sneak attack in.

Because I'm just having a bad run of luck and not being close enough to any enemies to be capable of attacking on the first round.
Gandilas
03-30-04, 05:30 PM Hello.

You have this cross posted somewhere else don't you?

In short (no pun intended), your "25 percent reduction in damage" is only the base weapon damage (small shortswordds do 1-4 instead of 1-6). There's no reduction in Strength damage, magic damage, Weapon Spec damage, Ranger bonus damage or anything but the base damage. For a Rogue, it really doesn't matter.

Keep the Weapon Finesse and take TWF asap. Either that or swap it out for TWF and take Weapon Finesse ASAP.

Make sure you max out Tumble every level, this will help you get to flanking positions. Take UMD if you have the points and shoot for a Wand of Summoning.

Talk to the Fighter/tank types in the party and encourage them to approach monsters from the side instead of a head on frontal assault.
uniquenamessuck
03-31-04, 07:57 AM Originally posted by Gandilas
Hello.

You have this cross posted somewhere else don't you?

In short (no pun intended), your "25 percent reduction in damage" is only the base weapon damage (small shortswordds do 1-4 instead of 1-6). There's no reduction in Strength damage, magic damage, Weapon Spec damage, Ranger bonus damage or anything but the base damage. For a Rogue, it really doesn't matter.

Keep the Weapon Finesse and take TWF asap. Either that or swap it out for TWF and take Weapon Finesse ASAP.

Make sure you max out Tumble every level, this will help you get to flanking positions. Take UMD if you have the points and shoot for a Wand of Summoning.

Talk to the Fighter/tank types in the party and encourage them to approach monsters from the side instead of a head on frontal assault.

I have a separate thread on small character math in another forum. There I am just discussing the logic behind the modifiers for small characters.

Here I am asking for advice on what I should do with the character I have created.

Yes, I understand it's only base weapon damage, but at low levels, it feels like a lot. Especially for a small character who has difficulty moving into flanking positions quickly.

Unfortunately, I can't keep Weapon Finesse, I don't have a BAB +1. I analyzed my character last night and made all the appropriate adjustments. I think I am going to take Point Blank Shot. With that, I have a +8 attack on thrown dagger (size +1, 20 dex +5, feat +1, race +1), and a +2 to damage (feat +1, 12 str +1). If I do that, and take TWF, Rapid Shot, and Qickdraw, I could throw 3 daggers on the first round against a flat footed opponent. Perhaps I should consider a dagger sniping roll...

Thanks for the advice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
uniquenamessuck 03-30-04, 09:57 AM	First, I would like to start of by saying that the games I play in are all about "roll-playing". All our encounters are combat and above average CRs. Now I need some advice. I'm feeling fairly useless with my current character. I have created a halfling rogue/fighter. It's a Strongheart Halfling from FR (1 extra feat @ 1st level). Right now he's only 1st level, so there's no fighter levels. IIRC he's got a +1 str, +4 dex, & +1 con. I had originally created this character in 3.0 (though not a Strongheart), and he was pretty cool. But in 3.5, with the 25% reduction in damage, I'm feeling a little uneasy about him. The original plan was to be a dagger maniac. Two weapon fighting, weapon finesse, weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved critical, point blank shot, quickdraw. Basically throwing and fighting with 2 daggers, as well as rogue levels for sneak attack. Well the first feat I took was improved initiative. I accidentally took weapon finesse as my second feat. I had completely forgotten that weapon finesse requires a BAB +1. This may be the straw that breaks the camels back. For the entire first session I was using the weapon finesse feat. The shameful thing is that the party would be doing just as well if my character wasn't even there. I haven't had much opportunity to flank. Even when I do win initiative, I'm not close enough to sneak attack. I'm one of 2 out of 5 characters that have no dark vision, so for some reason I end up holding the torch, and end up in the middle of the party. Moving only 20' doesn't really help me get into flanking positions either. I obviously need to replace the weapon finesse feat. I was thinking about taking two weapon fighting, though it won't be useful to me for a couple of levels. There really aren't many good feats that I can take. I fear that without weapon finesse, the only value my character will add to the party is being the butt of the "let's use the halfling as a weapon" jokes. Any advice for a struggling halfling? Should I just give up the character and go down in a blaze of glory?
SmiloDan 03-30-04, 10:13 AM	Go with Point Blank Shot. Grab a long bow. Get Rapid Shot at 2nd level as your 1st level fighter feat. Get a mighty (+1) composite longbow as soon as possible. You'll be doing 1d6+2 twice a round, +1d6 each if you win initiative and are within 30 feet. And with your Dex bonus, PBS, and size bonus, your ranged attack bonus at 1st level will be +6 to those within 30 feet. +7 if you get a masterwork or magic bow. At 2nd level, your ranged attack bonus will be +7 or +5/+5 with a full attack action. +8 or +6/+6 with mw or magic. Take fighter at 3rd level and get Precise Shot and Weapon Focus. Get a masterwork or magic small-sized longbow and your attack bonus will be +9 or +7/+7 at 3rd level. Ranged combat can really rock. You can hurt the BBEGs, and they often don't have effective ranged combat abilities. Archey isn't ideal for many dungeon environments, but that's when you use your small greatsword (1d10+1+1d6 sneak attack) at 2nd level. Max out tumble so you can flank often. Become best friends with the mage or bard with Cat's Grace. This guy could still rock!
Sir_Jack_Sparrow 03-30-04, 10:27 AM	I had a similar problem with with a ranger i made, we would get into combat and i was the big fat suck, but once i got up there in levels and started getting multiple attacks and the feats started comming together well now i rock. the thing is most characters that are well planned out suck at the beginning, but once it comes together its great. you just have tow ait this stuff out.
rmiller_nub 03-30-04, 02:33 PM	One thing I'm confused on. How con you can't sneak attack when you win initiative. Remember you are flat-footed until you initiative occurs. So if your halfing wins initiative you should be able to get your sneak attack in.
uniquenamessuck 03-30-04, 04:31 PM	Originally posted by rmiller_nub One thing I'm confused on. How con you can't sneak attack when you win initiative. Remember you are flat-footed until you initiative occurs. So if your halfing wins initiative you should be able to get your sneak attack in. Because I'm just having a bad run of luck and not being close enough to any enemies to be capable of attacking on the first round.
Gandilas 03-30-04, 05:30 PM	Hello. You have this cross posted somewhere else don't you? In short (no pun intended), your "25 percent reduction in damage" is only the base weapon damage (small shortswordds do 1-4 instead of 1-6). There's no reduction in Strength damage, magic damage, Weapon Spec damage, Ranger bonus damage or anything but the base damage. For a Rogue, it really doesn't matter. Keep the Weapon Finesse and take TWF asap. Either that or swap it out for TWF and take Weapon Finesse ASAP. Make sure you max out Tumble every level, this will help you get to flanking positions. Take UMD if you have the points and shoot for a Wand of Summoning. Talk to the Fighter/tank types in the party and encourage them to approach monsters from the side instead of a head on frontal assault.
uniquenamessuck 03-31-04, 07:57 AM	Originally posted by Gandilas Hello. You have this cross posted somewhere else don't you? In short (no pun intended), your "25 percent reduction in damage" is only the base weapon damage (small shortswordds do 1-4 instead of 1-6). There's no reduction in Strength damage, magic damage, Weapon Spec damage, Ranger bonus damage or anything but the base damage. For a Rogue, it really doesn't matter. Keep the Weapon Finesse and take TWF asap. Either that or swap it out for TWF and take Weapon Finesse ASAP. Make sure you max out Tumble every level, this will help you get to flanking positions. Take UMD if you have the points and shoot for a Wand of Summoning. Talk to the Fighter/tank types in the party and encourage them to approach monsters from the side instead of a head on frontal assault. I have a separate thread on small character math in another forum. There I am just discussing the logic behind the modifiers for small characters. Here I am asking for advice on what I should do with the character I have created. Yes, I understand it's only base weapon damage, but at low levels, it feels like a lot. Especially for a small character who has difficulty moving into flanking positions quickly. Unfortunately, I can't keep Weapon Finesse, I don't have a BAB +1. I analyzed my character last night and made all the appropriate adjustments. I think I am going to take Point Blank Shot. With that, I have a +8 attack on thrown dagger (size +1, 20 dex +5, feat +1, race +1), and a +2 to damage (feat +1, 12 str +1). If I do that, and take TWF, Rapid Shot, and Qickdraw, I could throw 3 daggers on the first round against a flat footed opponent. Perhaps I should consider a dagger sniping roll... Thanks for the advice.