Handling a vampire in the group. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Handling a vampire in the group. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darth Doom
03-15-05, 12:06 AM Hi again,

I had a Taking over the World thread on here earlier, but seems as Ive only got my net back todayits rather buried (though I still read the advice, thanks all ;)). Yet instead of the world, the wizardess has kinda lowered the grandeur of her goal into founding her own country that will be a Democratic Dictatorship (She never made much sense ever since she tried to explain the economics of spending to much gold in one community at once to the group).

However, my question today for all, is how can one make a vampire work in a group? The wizardess might possibly become a vampire in the future, yet I dont want to give up playing her, instead Id rather try something different (More of a "tragic" character like Angel for example). Alignment means little as exceptions can be made, but what about the whole sun thing?

One solution was to - because she's a wizard - imbue the inside of her coffin with the darkness spell, so that if the lid ever came off somehow during day time she wouldnt be burned to a crisp. The same goes for imbuing Darkness on the inside of a cloak for daytime.

Blood can be somewhat solved by her carrying around vials of pig blood so that she need not feast on her group mates. So she isnt to over powered at once, the Vampire character template from the Libris Morbis, the Book of the Undead, can be used.

The lawful good cleric of Pelor can be persuaded into "letting" her live due to her lacking any evil intent and remaining Lawful Neutral in the least, plus that even with the wizards currently sinister thoughts - as few and far between as they are - she has the cleric wrapped around her little finger. The cleric kinda has the whole "if it isnt evil, leave it be" philosphy that she can exploit (specially seems as she intends to found a country in the future that will be a haven for peasants wishing to escape the nobles of other countries exploiting them).

What are other things that would need to be thought about? Or what are any other solutions that people could think of? Any suggestions/advice/thoughts would be appreciated.
ehrin
03-15-05, 12:18 AM depends on the type of vampire myth you wish to play, but:

not being able to cross running water
having to carry your dirt around with you for sleeping
not being able to cross thresholds and doorways
having the paladin find ways to smite you, or just make your life horrible anyway... basically, no matter your alignment, being undead is usually an affront to a paladin.
wooden weapons, especially arrows (flying stakes)
party members who eat lots of garlic
the running away of townspeople from you
lack of service in bars
figuring out that pigs blood isn't the same as human
weasel fierce
03-15-05, 04:10 AM Depending on the game played, you may also have to worry about paladins and other zealots dropping by, to smite said vampire. What with being a dreadfull monster of the night and all that good stuff.
The daylight limitations will prove a serious drawback though.
Vatras
03-15-05, 04:17 AM I would recommend a sharp stick, some garlic, a shovel and some holy water :)

You can probably guess, but I dont think monster templates are feasible with a group (there was always slaughter among mine, usually by the paladin).
weasel fierce
03-15-05, 04:20 AM I too would not recommend monsters as PC's, but if your game includes such, more power to you.
Callista
03-15-05, 04:35 AM It really does depend on how your group is willing to work with you.

As for the pitchfork-and-torch villager problem... just get a Hat of Disguise. Vampire to human or elf or whatever really isn't that much of a stretch. Don't act sinister in company, and no one will suspect. Being a vampire isn't the problem... being a vampire openly is!

Also, don't model your character off Angel... he's definitely Good-aligned and you said you're Neutral. You'll just have to be original!

Basic tips:
--Keep your identity as a vampire secret.
--Being invited into a house is usually rather easy if the above is true, especially if your party members are already inside and can do the inviting (ask for DM approval on this one).
--Crossing running water is also rather easy, with party members' help.
--If you have to feed from humans, again go for party members first. That cleric can help you...Pay him for his Restorations. Beware going without blood too long, for obvious reasons. It's better for a party member to be down a level than for half the party to be dead.

You getting the drift here? A vampire, without vampire allies, simply cannot be a loner! Your limitations can really only be conquered if you gather around you people who understand that you're not evil and you have absolutely no desire to kill anyone. Allies are very, very important for any monster character, especially a "smite-on-sight" one like a vampire. And, though your allies can keep you alive, chances are you won't be acting as the party face if it gets out that you're undead. At best, you'll have people avoiding you... at worst, they'll come out with the pitchforks and torches again.

I highly suggest "Protection from Arrows"...
Andrew_980
03-15-05, 10:14 AM the best way is DON'T allow it. vampires are among the worst party-breaking monster PCs
Lomion
03-15-05, 04:51 PM I agree with most everyone here in that this would be a very difficult if not impossible feat to achieve. The only way that it would really fly is if it was a secret kept to yourself. The main concern would be the paladin character who would be required by religious tenets to destroy you.

I would recomend taking a look at the 2E book Van Richten's Monster Hunters Compendium: Vol 1. It details vampires (and lycanthropes and golems) quite nicely and the flavor still fits if the stats and numbers may not. My point being, that there is a section dealing with how vampires live amongst humans. It is referred to as The Facade or The Ruse or some such thing. Could be useful.
Darth Doom
03-15-05, 10:52 PM Thanks all for your input.

However, just to smooth over what seems to be the largest bump in the plan.

There is no paladin in the group.

There is a Lawful Neutral Dwarven fighter who currently loves the wizardess ever since she nuked a pair of rust monsters. A pansy chaotic good elven ranger who refuses to fight up close. A Lawful Good cleric, who like I stated earlier has the "If it isnt evil, leave it be" thought pattern and a Neutral Rogue who only dislikes what tries to kill him.

At the moment however the main problem seems to ly with vampiric restrictions such as daylight. The Darkness spell means that now light can come within her coffin if it were open, or within her cloak if she needed to come out during the day, but it also means that she cant see out. Is there any items out there that can help in that department? While it may seem a bit off topic, in Champions of Norrath the video game, you have to fight a vampire who claims that "the sun no longer can destroy me!"
ShadowDragon8685
03-15-05, 11:14 PM Get the DM to engineer you an artifact.

Or give up something in exchange for being able to bear sunlight. Go the Thinblood route, from V:tM. Hehe. :)
Wizard
03-16-05, 04:10 PM Who, uh...who gets to donate blood?
runestar
03-17-05, 04:45 AM If you are not yet dissed by the +8 LA, perhaps you may consider going into the vampire lord prc, though you may need to work your way around some of the requirements. It will solve your problems regarding the weaknesses.
allenchan
03-17-05, 05:36 AM You know vampires in dnd dont have to drink blood to survive, right?

Yes, this goes against mainstream myth, but makes sense in game terms; they dont have a con score so they arent subject to starvation because it has a fort save)
pyro_cat
03-17-05, 06:11 PM You know vampires in dnd dont have to drink blood to survive, right?

Yes, this goes against mainstream myth, but makes sense in game terms; they dont have a con score so they arent subject to starvation because it has a fort save)

wrong

look at libris mortis... the vampire template confers a dietary depandance on blood, as well as an inescapable craving for "life force", which is basically a way to force them to use their level draining attack.

if the dietary requirements are not fulfilled, a vampire looses mobility, and if the inescapable craving is not satiated, the undead become mindless... doing nothing but sucking levels from the nearest thing until they are satisfied. if they are not, they take wisdom damage.

if you are going to have players using undead, take a look at libris mortis, it will make your games a little more sensible
allenchan
03-17-05, 06:34 PM wrong

look at libris mortis... the vampire template confers a dietary depandance on blood, as well as an inescapable craving for "life force", which is basically a way to force them to use their level draining attack.

if the dietary requirements are not fulfilled, a vampire looses mobility, and if the inescapable craving is not satiated, the undead become mindless... doing nothing but sucking levels from the nearest thing until they are satisfied. if they are not, they take wisdom damage.

if you are going to have players using undead, take a look at libris mortis, it will make your games a little more sensible

Well I was referring to the Vampire in the SRD, since its OGL
nyysjan
03-18-05, 03:49 AM Libris Motis is not Core
and as Core i mean the big three DMG, PHB & MM
everything is optional
and by DM approval only
Mirikon
03-18-05, 12:33 PM You won't be able to keep this a secret from your party, obviously. So what you do is follow this simple plan, and you'll be golden:

1) Imbue the coffin with darkness, as you said.
2) If you don't have one, purchase a horse and wagon, to haul the coffin around.
3) Craft or purchase Goggles of Night for the members of your party that don't have Darkvision, or permanency the Darkvision spell on them. Travel at night from now on.
4) If people ask about the coffin, tell them that the deceased's father is paying you to take the coffin to all the places he never got to go in life.
5) If the party still travels during the day, they'll have to do without you for any combat that starts. But always offer to take the night watch, to make up for it.
6) Remember that the blood need not come from humanoids. Animals work just fine for this purpose, too. And since you have the ability to summon animals to you...
7) Never tell any townspeople about your condition.
8) Get the cleric to avoid turning undead at all costs.
Darth Doom
03-19-05, 05:57 AM Thank you all for your input :) it has been very useful.

If you are not yet dissed by the +8 LA, perhaps you may consider going into the vampire lord prc, though you may need to work your way around some of the requirements. It will solve your problems regarding the weaknesses.

Where is the Vampire Lord prestige class to be found? I know of the Master Vampire in the Libris Mortis that I own, and the Lifedrinker in the Book of vile darkness.
Derren S.
03-19-05, 06:02 AM You know that unless you play 3.0 Darkness won't protect you?
runestar
03-19-05, 07:37 AM The vampire lord prc is somewhere in the wotc dnd website.
Yeah, found it...http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a

Also, there is a cleric spell in Lords of Darkness that grants the vampire immunity to sunlight for 10min/lv. If you can reach an agreement with your party cleric, it will allow you limited battle time on the field.
cynical
03-20-05, 10:53 PM Any wizard in there right mind would get cured of vampireism .. aka stake and raise. The level adjustment of +8 is too detrimental to spellcasting classes. imagine have a charicture that will most likle never improve. On top of that at fisrt the vamp will outshine all the charictures combined.

Dont do it!
Count Arioch the 28th
03-20-05, 10:56 PM Also, the core rule is that if you become a vampire from another vampire, you're that first vampire's slave. Make proper arrangements to have the master killed afterward before you become a vampire, because you aren't going to do it yourself, you're basically another appendage.
Mirikon
03-20-05, 11:23 PM Also, the core rule is that if you become a vampire from another vampire, you're that first vampire's slave. Make proper arrangements to have the master killed afterward before you become a vampire, because you aren't going to do it yourself, you're basically another appendage.

Unless of course you use magic to turn yourself into a vampire somehow, either through a ritual of some kind, or Wish.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darth Doom 03-15-05, 12:06 AM	Hi again, I had a Taking over the World thread on here earlier, but seems as Ive only got my net back todayits rather buried (though I still read the advice, thanks all ;)). Yet instead of the world, the wizardess has kinda lowered the grandeur of her goal into founding her own country that will be a Democratic Dictatorship (She never made much sense ever since she tried to explain the economics of spending to much gold in one community at once to the group). However, my question today for all, is how can one make a vampire work in a group? The wizardess might possibly become a vampire in the future, yet I dont want to give up playing her, instead Id rather try something different (More of a "tragic" character like Angel for example). Alignment means little as exceptions can be made, but what about the whole sun thing? One solution was to - because she's a wizard - imbue the inside of her coffin with the darkness spell, so that if the lid ever came off somehow during day time she wouldnt be burned to a crisp. The same goes for imbuing Darkness on the inside of a cloak for daytime. Blood can be somewhat solved by her carrying around vials of pig blood so that she need not feast on her group mates. So she isnt to over powered at once, the Vampire character template from the Libris Morbis, the Book of the Undead, can be used. The lawful good cleric of Pelor can be persuaded into "letting" her live due to her lacking any evil intent and remaining Lawful Neutral in the least, plus that even with the wizards currently sinister thoughts - as few and far between as they are - she has the cleric wrapped around her little finger. The cleric kinda has the whole "if it isnt evil, leave it be" philosphy that she can exploit (specially seems as she intends to found a country in the future that will be a haven for peasants wishing to escape the nobles of other countries exploiting them). What are other things that would need to be thought about? Or what are any other solutions that people could think of? Any suggestions/advice/thoughts would be appreciated.
ehrin 03-15-05, 12:18 AM	depends on the type of vampire myth you wish to play, but: not being able to cross running water having to carry your dirt around with you for sleeping not being able to cross thresholds and doorways having the paladin find ways to smite you, or just make your life horrible anyway... basically, no matter your alignment, being undead is usually an affront to a paladin. wooden weapons, especially arrows (flying stakes) party members who eat lots of garlic the running away of townspeople from you lack of service in bars figuring out that pigs blood isn't the same as human
weasel fierce 03-15-05, 04:10 AM	Depending on the game played, you may also have to worry about paladins and other zealots dropping by, to smite said vampire. What with being a dreadfull monster of the night and all that good stuff. The daylight limitations will prove a serious drawback though.
Vatras 03-15-05, 04:17 AM	I would recommend a sharp stick, some garlic, a shovel and some holy water :) You can probably guess, but I dont think monster templates are feasible with a group (there was always slaughter among mine, usually by the paladin).
weasel fierce 03-15-05, 04:20 AM	I too would not recommend monsters as PC's, but if your game includes such, more power to you.
Callista 03-15-05, 04:35 AM	It really does depend on how your group is willing to work with you. As for the pitchfork-and-torch villager problem... just get a Hat of Disguise. Vampire to human or elf or whatever really isn't that much of a stretch. Don't act sinister in company, and no one will suspect. Being a vampire isn't the problem... being a vampire openly is! Also, don't model your character off Angel... he's definitely Good-aligned and you said you're Neutral. You'll just have to be original! Basic tips: --Keep your identity as a vampire secret. --Being invited into a house is usually rather easy if the above is true, especially if your party members are already inside and can do the inviting (ask for DM approval on this one). --Crossing running water is also rather easy, with party members' help. --If you have to feed from humans, again go for party members first. That cleric can help you...Pay him for his Restorations. Beware going without blood too long, for obvious reasons. It's better for a party member to be down a level than for half the party to be dead. You getting the drift here? A vampire, without vampire allies, simply cannot be a loner! Your limitations can really only be conquered if you gather around you people who understand that you're not evil and you have absolutely no desire to kill anyone. Allies are very, very important for any monster character, especially a "smite-on-sight" one like a vampire. And, though your allies can keep you alive, chances are you won't be acting as the party face if it gets out that you're undead. At best, you'll have people avoiding you... at worst, they'll come out with the pitchforks and torches again. I highly suggest "Protection from Arrows"...
Andrew_980 03-15-05, 10:14 AM	the best way is DON'T allow it. vampires are among the worst party-breaking monster PCs
Lomion 03-15-05, 04:51 PM	I agree with most everyone here in that this would be a very difficult if not impossible feat to achieve. The only way that it would really fly is if it was a secret kept to yourself. The main concern would be the paladin character who would be required by religious tenets to destroy you. I would recomend taking a look at the 2E book Van Richten's Monster Hunters Compendium: Vol 1. It details vampires (and lycanthropes and golems) quite nicely and the flavor still fits if the stats and numbers may not. My point being, that there is a section dealing with how vampires live amongst humans. It is referred to as The Facade or The Ruse or some such thing. Could be useful.
Darth Doom 03-15-05, 10:52 PM	Thanks all for your input. However, just to smooth over what seems to be the largest bump in the plan. There is no paladin in the group. There is a Lawful Neutral Dwarven fighter who currently loves the wizardess ever since she nuked a pair of rust monsters. A pansy chaotic good elven ranger who refuses to fight up close. A Lawful Good cleric, who like I stated earlier has the "If it isnt evil, leave it be" thought pattern and a Neutral Rogue who only dislikes what tries to kill him. At the moment however the main problem seems to ly with vampiric restrictions such as daylight. The Darkness spell means that now light can come within her coffin if it were open, or within her cloak if she needed to come out during the day, but it also means that she cant see out. Is there any items out there that can help in that department? While it may seem a bit off topic, in Champions of Norrath the video game, you have to fight a vampire who claims that "the sun no longer can destroy me!"
ShadowDragon8685 03-15-05, 11:14 PM	Get the DM to engineer you an artifact. Or give up something in exchange for being able to bear sunlight. Go the Thinblood route, from V:tM. Hehe. :)
Wizard 03-16-05, 04:10 PM	Who, uh...who gets to donate blood?
runestar 03-17-05, 04:45 AM	If you are not yet dissed by the +8 LA, perhaps you may consider going into the vampire lord prc, though you may need to work your way around some of the requirements. It will solve your problems regarding the weaknesses.
allenchan 03-17-05, 05:36 AM	You know vampires in dnd dont have to drink blood to survive, right? Yes, this goes against mainstream myth, but makes sense in game terms; they dont have a con score so they arent subject to starvation because it has a fort save)
pyro_cat 03-17-05, 06:11 PM	You know vampires in dnd dont have to drink blood to survive, right? Yes, this goes against mainstream myth, but makes sense in game terms; they dont have a con score so they arent subject to starvation because it has a fort save) wrong look at libris mortis... the vampire template confers a dietary depandance on blood, as well as an inescapable craving for "life force", which is basically a way to force them to use their level draining attack. if the dietary requirements are not fulfilled, a vampire looses mobility, and if the inescapable craving is not satiated, the undead become mindless... doing nothing but sucking levels from the nearest thing until they are satisfied. if they are not, they take wisdom damage. if you are going to have players using undead, take a look at libris mortis, it will make your games a little more sensible
allenchan 03-17-05, 06:34 PM	wrong look at libris mortis... the vampire template confers a dietary depandance on blood, as well as an inescapable craving for "life force", which is basically a way to force them to use their level draining attack. if the dietary requirements are not fulfilled, a vampire looses mobility, and if the inescapable craving is not satiated, the undead become mindless... doing nothing but sucking levels from the nearest thing until they are satisfied. if they are not, they take wisdom damage. if you are going to have players using undead, take a look at libris mortis, it will make your games a little more sensible Well I was referring to the Vampire in the SRD, since its OGL
nyysjan 03-18-05, 03:49 AM	Libris Motis is not Core and as Core i mean the big three DMG, PHB & MM everything is optional and by DM approval only
Mirikon 03-18-05, 12:33 PM	You won't be able to keep this a secret from your party, obviously. So what you do is follow this simple plan, and you'll be golden: 1) Imbue the coffin with darkness, as you said. 2) If you don't have one, purchase a horse and wagon, to haul the coffin around. 3) Craft or purchase Goggles of Night for the members of your party that don't have Darkvision, or permanency the Darkvision spell on them. Travel at night from now on. 4) If people ask about the coffin, tell them that the deceased's father is paying you to take the coffin to all the places he never got to go in life. 5) If the party still travels during the day, they'll have to do without you for any combat that starts. But always offer to take the night watch, to make up for it. 6) Remember that the blood need not come from humanoids. Animals work just fine for this purpose, too. And since you have the ability to summon animals to you... 7) Never tell any townspeople about your condition. 8) Get the cleric to avoid turning undead at all costs.
Darth Doom 03-19-05, 05:57 AM	Thank you all for your input :) it has been very useful. If you are not yet dissed by the +8 LA, perhaps you may consider going into the vampire lord prc, though you may need to work your way around some of the requirements. It will solve your problems regarding the weaknesses. Where is the Vampire Lord prestige class to be found? I know of the Master Vampire in the Libris Mortis that I own, and the Lifedrinker in the Book of vile darkness.
Derren S. 03-19-05, 06:02 AM	You know that unless you play 3.0 Darkness won't protect you?
runestar 03-19-05, 07:37 AM	The vampire lord prc is somewhere in the wotc dnd website. Yeah, found it...http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mm/20021018a Also, there is a cleric spell in Lords of Darkness that grants the vampire immunity to sunlight for 10min/lv. If you can reach an agreement with your party cleric, it will allow you limited battle time on the field.
cynical 03-20-05, 10:53 PM	Any wizard in there right mind would get cured of vampireism .. aka stake and raise. The level adjustment of +8 is too detrimental to spellcasting classes. imagine have a charicture that will most likle never improve. On top of that at fisrt the vamp will outshine all the charictures combined. Dont do it!
Count Arioch the 28th 03-20-05, 10:56 PM	Also, the core rule is that if you become a vampire from another vampire, you're that first vampire's slave. Make proper arrangements to have the master killed afterward before you become a vampire, because you aren't going to do it yourself, you're basically another appendage.
Mirikon 03-20-05, 11:23 PM	Also, the core rule is that if you become a vampire from another vampire, you're that first vampire's slave. Make proper arrangements to have the master killed afterward before you become a vampire, because you aren't going to do it yourself, you're basically another appendage. Unless of course you use magic to turn yourself into a vampire somehow, either through a ritual of some kind, or Wish.