Handling w/ Handle Animal? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Handling w/ Handle Animal? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nerdkid7
01-06-07, 12:47 AM I'm not quite sure if my DM is dealing with pets correctly. My DM has so far dealt with pets (animal companions) as seperate characters. In the beginning of combat, when we all roll initiative, the animal companion's master rolls initiative another time for his animal companion (in addition to his own). Also, when it is the animal's turn, the animal companion's master gets to choose how it will move, and perhaps how he will attack (e.g. telling a Wolf animal companion to move it's speed, then doing a bite attack with it's Trip (Ex) ability.

When I decided to be a druid recently, I read up on Animal Companion, and the Handle Animal skill. There are certain tricks you can teach an animal with the Handle animal skill. You can also 'push' an animal to do tricks that it "doesn't know". Now, as a Druid, I can "Handle" my animal companion as a free action, and 'push' it as a move action.

1) First of all, do animal companion's get a seperate initiative roll in the beginning of combat? (Or is there only one roll for both the animal companion and the master?). This is probably obvious, but do pets have their own seperate turn (to make the necessary moves to get to an enemy)? If they do have their own turns, they cannot be 'pushed' to do tricks that they dont know until it gets to the master's turn, (correct?)

2) Second, I think you can only tell your animal companions to do those tricks listed (Attack, Come, Perform, etc). Does the master specify where the animal will move (e.g. to possibly add a flanking advantage) when it attacks or is this done by the DM? Does the master also specify how it will move (e.g. moving up 3 squares and left 2 squares to perhaps avoid a certain obstacle)?

3) [assuming that the pet isn't controlled by the master during pet's turn]. When telling your pet to "Attack", is it assumed that they make the necessary moves first before attacking a target (in other words, if your pet's target is further than twice the pet's speed, will the pet possibly take the necessary rounds to move towards the target before attacking?). Can we also safely assume that when telling your pet to attack, your pet has a specified target? (Or does the 'attack' trick just let the pet attack the nearest enemy target?)

4) Certain animals have feats such as Improved Grab. Does your animal companion have these feats as well?

5) Could the animal companion's master tell the animal companion to do certain special attacks (such as Trip or Grapple) when the animal companion does the "Attack" trick or are these special attacks 'tricks' themselves (and therefore, need to be taught to the animal first with a certain DC)? This wouldn't make too much sense if the animal also has a 'racial' feat to go with a special attacks (such as Improved Grab), because they already seem to racially KNOW how to do the special attack (like grapple), since they have the corresponding feat (like Improved Grab). (...then again, 'disarm' seems to be something that one should teach, if it's even teachable). But if these special attacks are tricks and need to be taught, what are the Handle Animal DCs for them to be taught?

If the master CAN tell his animal companion to do these special attacks, and the master tells his animal companion to grapple (we assume the animal companion 'knows' grapple, if it needs to be taught), then does the master have to continue to tell his animal companion to continue grappling in future turns, OR does the animal continue to grapple by itself until the master tells the animal companion to do something differently? If the animal companion's target escapes the grapple, does the animal companion, by default, try to grapple again or does it simply engage with it's regular melee attack, until told to do another trick?

6) IF the master was a druid and could tell the animal companion to do these special attacks, would this act of telling the pet to do the special attack be a free action? For example, if an animal companion doesn't know the trick "attack" (for whatever reason), and the druid master succeeds at 'pushing' the animal companion to 'attack', would it take ANOTHER move action (in which case, this special attack is treated like a 'trick' that the pet doesn't know) or could the druid 'push' the animal companion to do the 'attack' trick AND specify how to attack (Attempt to trip/charge) all in the same move action?

Okay, these are a lot of questions so far :P . If possible, in answering my questions, please add some references (books, possibly page numbers, websites?) where you found your answer from, so that I can make a good argument against my DM if trouble arrises.
Fion_Mac_Cumhaill
01-06-07, 01:10 AM To answer your first question, we roll seperate initiative for animal companions. But if the animal is unsure what to do, it would stall untill its master gives an order. A wolf or other creature would always naturaly use its special attacks (trip). I'm really not sure of your other questions though.
Fion_Mac_Cumhaill
01-06-07, 01:11 AM Oh, and my group also has the DM controll animals. Sometimes they do things the player doesn't want them to do; like bark while the party is sneaking.
Sybill
01-06-07, 03:23 AM Ok, long post, so I'll answer what I can as I recall...

1) I don't know RAW, but I've always played where the companion acted on its master's initiative

2) The master can specify a location the animal should move to, or an enemy for the animal to attack. The exact path is not determined by the master, but the animal is usually assumed to take the easiest/quickest route possible to get to that location. In other words, the animal might naturally go around a large rock, instead of trying to jump it, but it wouldn't be able to go around a hidden trap on its own.

The DM could also rule that you can tell an animal a specific path with longer time spent on the handle animal check (i.e. taking a full round action to direct your pet more specifically)

3) The owner designates the target. And I don't really see what else the animal would do other than move towards it when it was possible.

4) An animal companion is completely normal for its type, so yes... it also gains additional feats for bonus HD

5) IIRC, you must use a trick space for special moves like tripping. Its not because the animal can't do it, its because it doesn't naturally know how to do it on command.

6) I would assume only one command was needed. After all, couldn't you just say "trip" instead of saying "attack, by tripping"?

Most of these I found from the descriptions in the PHB, but the arms and equipment guide has some good insights about handling animals, if you can check out a copy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nerdkid7 01-06-07, 12:47 AM	I'm not quite sure if my DM is dealing with pets correctly. My DM has so far dealt with pets (animal companions) as seperate characters. In the beginning of combat, when we all roll initiative, the animal companion's master rolls initiative another time for his animal companion (in addition to his own). Also, when it is the animal's turn, the animal companion's master gets to choose how it will move, and perhaps how he will attack (e.g. telling a Wolf animal companion to move it's speed, then doing a bite attack with it's Trip (Ex) ability. When I decided to be a druid recently, I read up on Animal Companion, and the Handle Animal skill. There are certain tricks you can teach an animal with the Handle animal skill. You can also 'push' an animal to do tricks that it "doesn't know". Now, as a Druid, I can "Handle" my animal companion as a free action, and 'push' it as a move action. 1) First of all, do animal companion's get a seperate initiative roll in the beginning of combat? (Or is there only one roll for both the animal companion and the master?). This is probably obvious, but do pets have their own seperate turn (to make the necessary moves to get to an enemy)? If they do have their own turns, they cannot be 'pushed' to do tricks that they dont know until it gets to the master's turn, (correct?) 2) Second, I think you can only tell your animal companions to do those tricks listed (Attack, Come, Perform, etc). Does the master specify where the animal will move (e.g. to possibly add a flanking advantage) when it attacks or is this done by the DM? Does the master also specify how it will move (e.g. moving up 3 squares and left 2 squares to perhaps avoid a certain obstacle)? 3) [assuming that the pet isn't controlled by the master during pet's turn]. When telling your pet to "Attack", is it assumed that they make the necessary moves first before attacking a target (in other words, if your pet's target is further than twice the pet's speed, will the pet possibly take the necessary rounds to move towards the target before attacking?). Can we also safely assume that when telling your pet to attack, your pet has a specified target? (Or does the 'attack' trick just let the pet attack the nearest enemy target?) 4) Certain animals have feats such as Improved Grab. Does your animal companion have these feats as well? 5) Could the animal companion's master tell the animal companion to do certain special attacks (such as Trip or Grapple) when the animal companion does the "Attack" trick or are these special attacks 'tricks' themselves (and therefore, need to be taught to the animal first with a certain DC)? This wouldn't make too much sense if the animal also has a 'racial' feat to go with a special attacks (such as Improved Grab), because they already seem to racially KNOW how to do the special attack (like grapple), since they have the corresponding feat (like Improved Grab). (...then again, 'disarm' seems to be something that one should teach, if it's even teachable). But if these special attacks are tricks and need to be taught, what are the Handle Animal DCs for them to be taught? If the master CAN tell his animal companion to do these special attacks, and the master tells his animal companion to grapple (we assume the animal companion 'knows' grapple, if it needs to be taught), then does the master have to continue to tell his animal companion to continue grappling in future turns, OR does the animal continue to grapple by itself until the master tells the animal companion to do something differently? If the animal companion's target escapes the grapple, does the animal companion, by default, try to grapple again or does it simply engage with it's regular melee attack, until told to do another trick? 6) IF the master was a druid and could tell the animal companion to do these special attacks, would this act of telling the pet to do the special attack be a free action? For example, if an animal companion doesn't know the trick "attack" (for whatever reason), and the druid master succeeds at 'pushing' the animal companion to 'attack', would it take ANOTHER move action (in which case, this special attack is treated like a 'trick' that the pet doesn't know) or could the druid 'push' the animal companion to do the 'attack' trick AND specify how to attack (Attempt to trip/charge) all in the same move action? Okay, these are a lot of questions so far :P . If possible, in answering my questions, please add some references (books, possibly page numbers, websites?) where you found your answer from, so that I can make a good argument against my DM if trouble arrises.
Fion_Mac_Cumhaill 01-06-07, 01:10 AM	To answer your first question, we roll seperate initiative for animal companions. But if the animal is unsure what to do, it would stall untill its master gives an order. A wolf or other creature would always naturaly use its special attacks (trip). I'm really not sure of your other questions though.
Fion_Mac_Cumhaill 01-06-07, 01:11 AM	Oh, and my group also has the DM controll animals. Sometimes they do things the player doesn't want them to do; like bark while the party is sneaking.
Sybill 01-06-07, 03:23 AM	Ok, long post, so I'll answer what I can as I recall... 1) I don't know RAW, but I've always played where the companion acted on its master's initiative 2) The master can specify a location the animal should move to, or an enemy for the animal to attack. The exact path is not determined by the master, but the animal is usually assumed to take the easiest/quickest route possible to get to that location. In other words, the animal might naturally go around a large rock, instead of trying to jump it, but it wouldn't be able to go around a hidden trap on its own. The DM could also rule that you can tell an animal a specific path with longer time spent on the handle animal check (i.e. taking a full round action to direct your pet more specifically) 3) The owner designates the target. And I don't really see what else the animal would do other than move towards it when it was possible. 4) An animal companion is completely normal for its type, so yes... it also gains additional feats for bonus HD 5) IIRC, you must use a trick space for special moves like tripping. Its not because the animal can't do it, its because it doesn't naturally know how to do it on command. 6) I would assume only one command was needed. After all, couldn't you just say "trip" instead of saying "attack, by tripping"? Most of these I found from the descriptions in the PHB, but the arms and equipment guide has some good insights about handling animals, if you can check out a copy.