Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DMaster42 04-09-06, 10:50 AM	Hi guys I have a problem. You see I play an Elf Monk in a campaign where the DM told us we start out with no weapons. So as you can probably imagine I have a huge advantage over everyone else. However my DM and I decided that if I was going to be a monk I would have to take some sort of penalty. We decided that I could only speak Elven and no other language. It seemed to work out great until i wanted to say something. One of the other players everytime i tried to do or say something he would tell me shut up. For example someone poisoned some of the characters in the party so my character yelled at him. This player told me to shut up because no one could understand me so i had better just shut up. Not only was he disrupting my role playing and ability to stay in character, but he was ruining the game for me. I'm an experienced player, but he's not. In fact this was his first time playing the game. What should I do? Should I take him aside and tell him to stop? Should I talk to my DM? I just want to be able to enjoy the game and be able to rp without being told to can it.
kelvinaw273 04-09-06, 11:05 AM	If he is doing it in character, do what you would probably do to somebody talking to you in that tone: deck him. If he is doing it out of character, tell him to shut up himself and roleplay, then talk gibberish at him, trying to convey what you can. Personally I think you lost out on the deal, another disadvantage would have been more appropriate, or none. After all, it is not your fault that monks do not rely on equipment. Your character will get eclipsed as soon as the party get some gear. Hell, if they don't already have spears (stick, sharpened) and slings (strip of leather or cloth + stone) they need slapping.
DMaster42 04-09-06, 11:29 AM	If he is doing it out of character, tell him to shut up himself and roleplay, then talk gibberish at him, trying to convey what you can. He's definately doing it out of character. He barely knows what "in character" is. I like your thinking. Thanks for the idea.
kelvinaw273 04-09-06, 11:35 AM	Now, I was once ina party where one of the characters was turned into a rat for a day. He conveyed a great deal in various tones of "Squeak!" and won the RPGer of the week award.
shadowfox628 04-09-06, 12:15 PM	Well, it's not your fault that Monks only need their fists, and that you can only speak Elven. For the sake of ease, shouldn't one of the other players learned Elven? Couldn't you have spent 2 skill points to learn Common? I'm not pinning this on you, I'm just saying there are ways around this. However, the person shouldn't be telling you to shut up. Talk to your DM about it. I'm sure he had his reasons for not starting you off with equipment, but a lot of classes would suffer because of that (Rogue, for example), unless everyone took the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. But, yeah, once everyone gets equipment, then the Monk is going to be less useful if he can't communicate.
DM_Greatness 04-09-06, 12:55 PM	This really should be handled outside of the game. Either you could handle it, or honestly, the DM could handle it as well. The goal here is for everyone at the table to have fun, and for the game to be enjoyable. You all missed what would have been a good time having your monk trying to explain what happened, with just hand gestures alone. Players at the table shouldn't treat each other in the way you mentioned. Everyone at the gaming table deserves respect, or they don't belong at the gaming table. Either you, or your DM, should just handle this outside of the game. :teach:
Iry 04-09-06, 01:08 PM	To keep the RP interesting you should either take up a form of Sign Language amongst the group which will also be useful on a tactical level, or just sit down and take the time to flush out a few basic commands. "I need your attention", "Enemies are close!", "I trust him", "I distrust him." "Silence." Heck, with just five basic commands you can simplify it to holding up one of your fingers. The less interesting RP solution is to buy common a little later in the game and speak the same as everyone else.
Mentality 04-09-06, 02:19 PM	...or just sit down and take the time to flush out a few basic commands. "I need your attention", "Enemies are close!", "I trust him", "I distrust him." "Silence." Heck, with just five basic commands you can simplify it to holding up one of your fingers. Going in that order, that would be an interesting sign for "I trust him".
ToxicWiz 04-09-06, 05:36 PM	Going in that order, that would be an interesting sign for "I trust him". that it would be... but a good idea none the less, even if the order needs shifting. my solution: out of game gets solved out of game. if the character is giving you flak, deal with it in game. an idea. take what you will of it.
metamind 04-09-06, 05:49 PM	YOu're playing with jerks. Either make a new character, or find anouther group. 's all I have to say about that.
CYMRO 04-09-06, 06:00 PM	YOu're playing with jerks. Either make a new character, or find anouther group. 's all I have to say about that. Truly sound advice. A penalty for choosing a Core race/class combo? :rolleyes: And this DM repeatedly let a noob tell you to shut up? :confused:
DracoPhoenix 04-10-06, 08:37 AM	Did you know you'd start off without weapons before picking the monk? How long until you are going to be able to start finding / buying equipment? Tell the guy to stop being a jerk. If he roll plays being unable to understand you, sign him "you trust him". How are the others in the group on the matter? Would it really be bad to learn common over 2-3 sessions (in game, pointing to things and saying their elven name etc) Does the guy understand the difference between not speaking common and a mute? Think about it, if you don't speak a word of common, what does "shut up" actually mean?
Wargamer 04-10-06, 08:53 AM	Recite the following: Hy Y'xauk Y'alar Y'T'auk'cka Fa'ta'kn! That's Tau for "you :censored: your parents you :censored:." Not Elven, but as they won't know what it means, it will get the desired result...
Sir Knight 04-10-06, 09:02 AM	Hi guys I have a problem. You see I play an Elf Monk in a campaign where the DM told us we start out with no weapons. So as you can probably imagine I have a huge advantage over everyone else. However my DM and I decided that if I was going to be a monk I would have to take some sort of penalty. We decided that I could only speak Elven and no other language. It seemed to work out great until i wanted to say something. One of the other players everytime i tried to do or say something he would tell me shut up. For example someone poisoned some of the characters in the party so my character yelled at him. This player told me to shut up because no one could understand me so i had better just shut up. Not only was he disrupting my role playing and ability to stay in character, but he was ruining the game for me. I'm an experienced player, but he's not. In fact this was his first time playing the game. What should I do? Should I take him aside and tell him to stop? Should I talk to my DM? I just want to be able to enjoy the game and be able to rp without being told to can it. Why in the hell would your DM do this? Just because you chose to be a Monk and he is doing some weird wacked out weaponless game... That is just bad ruling in my opinion. Next game, lets penalize the spellcasters because nobody else chose to cast spells... I mean that is just... weird! Can you explain what the deal is? My next campaign the PCs will start without gear (due to being shipwreck survivors) and one of the players is a Monk/Ninja and I see no reason to penalize him. Besides, the rest of the group will have gear in the 1st or 2nd session so no big deal.
Dragen White 04-10-06, 01:42 PM	i ran into a problem similar to this once, for instance, i had a cleric with moderate stats but his intellegence was pretty low, in the negative mods, and the dm designated that i was stupid and always got lost, i rebutled and stated my score didn't necisarily mean i was mentally retarded or etc. it just meant i couldn't do things like basic math, i could still live life without math and etc because i countered that my wisdom was high enough to balance my street smarts. He quickly retorted no just shut up your dumb and your lost, everyone got a kick out of it but me, and i felt like i was at a loss, because it became a constant joke. In return i thought it was unfair when i legally made a character at level 20 with like a 50 Int, and then i was treated as being really smart, but not like phenominal, like in my opinion i should have been the rain man, and be able to invent or decipher languages within 5 minutes of study, and etc, but nooooo, once again i was penalized, anyway i just thought id let you know your not alone.
DMaster42 04-10-06, 05:56 PM	Did you know you'd start off without weapons before picking the monk? How long until you are going to be able to start finding / buying equipment? Yes I did know before I picked to be a Monk. I don't know when we'll get weapons. The DM says that its illegal for anyone but nobles to carrying weapons. We may never get them. Why in the hell would your DM do this? Just because you chose to be a Monk and he is doing some weird wacked out weaponless game... That is just bad ruling in my opinion. Next game, lets penalize the spellcasters because nobody else chose to cast spells... I mean that is just... weird! Can you explain what the deal is? My next campaign the PCs will start without gear (due to being shipwreck survivors) and one of the players is a Monk/Ninja and I see no reason to penalize him. Besides, the rest of the group will have gear in the 1st or 2nd session so no big deal. He seemed to think it would be interesting to have a campaign where the PCs didnt have any weapons and only the most armors. I can handle only being able to speak Elven, but I don't think it's right for this player to ridicule me out of game and character for it.
pres_man 04-10-06, 07:23 PM	There are weapons and then there are "tools". Knives, axes, walking sticks, canes, sickels, other forms of farm tools.
DracoPhoenix 04-11-06, 04:15 AM	Yes I did know before I picked to be a Monk. I don't know when we'll get weapons. The DM says that its illegal for anyone but nobles to carrying weapons. We may never get them. And I thought low magic was bad! How come no one else thought to compensate - magic (etc) classes, soulknives etc. Seriously, you took one of the few core classes that isn't dependent on having a weapon and you're the one getting penalised for it?! I'd speak to the DM and pay 100gp(and that's over the odds) to get a local elf to give you a crash course in common. Please tell me it's not a low magic setting too. If it is offer to re-roll, but roll a level 5 commoner just to point out your available options. If 3.5ed expects a certain amount of magic items to compensate, I think it's fair to assume a certain level/amount of mundane equipment would also be expected. Out of curiosity - what classes did everyone else take? I would have thought if only nobles could take weapons, then a lot of classes couldn't be taken in the first place. You can't get weapons to train to be a warrior - and there'd be no career in it. Rogues might get away with it, but probably have to be evil(/chaotic?) of some sort as they're breaking the rule of the land if they took anything but tool kits - no daggers etc. What other equipment restrictions are there?
kelvinaw273 04-11-06, 05:55 AM	It is not entirely without precedent. On Okinawa weapons were banned, which is why karate was invented, as well as sais (made from stakes), kama (from sickles), hanbo (walking stick), flails (from threshers) etc. I would expect any fighting classes in the group to be proficient with these weapons if this is the environment. In medieval europe some weapons were banned from being owned by peasents, swords at one time could only be carried by a knight. Spears, bows, short swords, clubs, staves, axes and the like could be carried by anyone, especially if they could be justified as 'tools'. Mercenaries were allowed to bear arms (tools of their trade), and this would cover most fighters. In either invironment daggers and knives could be carried by anyone, they were tools for eating and working. If the rest of the players knew this, then any of them that DIDN'T take a monk, sorcerer, cleric or other class less dependent on equipment, then they must be among the dumbest players around.
BadCatMan 04-11-06, 07:04 AM	It sounds a bit like the other player is getting pretty annoyed and frustrated at trying to survive without weapons, and there you are, playing a monk and spouting nothing but gibberish at him. It sounds like he just doesn't get it. Get the DM to explain the situation to him, because he probably won't trust you.
DMaster42 04-11-06, 08:52 AM	And I thought low magic was bad! How come no one else thought to compensate - magic (etc) classes, soulknives etc. Seriously, you took one of the few core classes that isn't dependent on having a weapon and you're the one getting penalised for it?! I'd speak to the DM and pay 100gp(and that's over the odds) to get a local elf to give you a crash course in common. Please tell me it's not a low magic setting too. If it is offer to re-roll, but roll a level 5 commoner just to point out your available options. If 3.5ed expects a certain amount of magic items to compensate, I think it's fair to assume a certain level/amount of mundane equipment would also be expected. Out of curiosity - what classes did everyone else take? I would have thought if only nobles could take weapons, then a lot of classes couldn't be taken in the first place. You can't get weapons to train to be a warrior - and there'd be no career in it. Rogues might get away with it, but probably have to be evil(/chaotic?) of some sort as they're breaking the rule of the land if they took anything but tool kits - no daggers etc. What other equipment restrictions are there? I don't know if it's low magic. He didn't tell us it was so I think that it's normal magic. The other characters are: a dwarf fighter, halfling rogue, half orc barbarian, and an elven sorceror. Ironically its the person who plays the other elf that does this to me. The other restrictions are that you can only have the worst armors (leather and padded basically). I actually don't mind playing an elf who can't speak common, but this player is making role playing the character very hard. Also, I would like to note, when the player with the half-orc refused to go inside a building with us and didn't go on a boat to travel with us, no one even said a word except the DM who questioned him as to why. No one else not even this player who harrasses me did anything. He wasn't even in character! I don't think it's right that he should be able to do that out of character, but when I'm roleplaying my characer well then people harrass me! The dwarf in the party harrasses me too but at least he does it IN CHARACTER!
Millennium 04-11-06, 09:17 AM	If the player is telling you to shut up because no one can understand you, and he's doing it in character, then logically, you shouldn't be able to understand him either. Thus, his unreasonable demands are safe to ignore: you don't know that he's telling you to shut up. That said, you might want to consider finding ways to nonverbally communicate with the players. Either that, or spend a few skill points to learn Common. If you want to yell at someone, babble gibberish, or do your best Tazmanian Devil impression. They'll get the point.
kelvinaw273 04-11-06, 09:24 AM	I don't know if it's low magic. He didn't tell us it was so I think that it's normal magic. The other characters are: a dwarf fighter, halfling rogue, half orc barbarian, and an elven sorceror. Ironically its the person who plays the other elf that does this to me. The other restrictions are that you can only have the worst armors (leather and padded basically). I actually don't mind playing an elf who can't speak common, but this player is making role playing the character very hard. Also, I would like to note, when the player with the half-orc refused to go inside a building with us and didn't go on a boat to travel with us, no one even said a word except the DM who questioned him as to why. No one else not even this player who harrasses me did anything. He wasn't even in character! I don't think it's right that he should be able to do that out of character, but when I'm roleplaying my characer well then people harrass me! The dwarf in the party harrasses me too but at least he does it IN CHARACTER! You have got to be joking ... the guy telling you to shut up is controlling the one character inthe party who can UNDERSTAND what you are saying? if he is an elf, he can speak elf, presumably ... so he should be translating for you, not telling you to shut up ... I think you have a major problem with both this player AND your DM. And next time the other elf ticks you off, dp what you would do if he wasn't a PC.
celtredleg 04-11-06, 10:18 AM	Is this your normal group?? Sounds like they Re treating you as the new guy that just joined so he can be picked on. Did the DM penalize the soc< as he can cast just fine in the situation he has put you in. Sounds like the DM has it in for you as you picked a PC that is effective in the mess he created. Might want to start looking for a new group. This you does not seem very friendly to you.
DMaster42 04-11-06, 03:39 PM	If the player is telling you to shut up because no one can understand you, and he's doing it in character, then logically, you shouldn't be able to understand him either. Thus, his unreasonable demands are safe to ignore: you don't know that he's telling you to shut up. He's not saying it in character though because he says my real name when he tells me to shut up. I do agree that I wouldn't understand him speaking in common though. Even when I do something like I tried to tell stories once and he just told me to shut up, when no did anything when the half orc did something that was actually stupid. You have got to be joking ... the guy telling you to shut up is controlling the one character inthe party who can UNDERSTAND what you are saying? if he is an elf, he can speak elf, presumably ... so he should be translating for you, not telling you to shut up ... I think you have a major problem with both this player AND your DM. And next time the other elf ticks you off, dp what you would do if he wasn't a PC. It's not even that the rest of the party can't understand me because everyone except the half orc speaks elven. He just tells me to shut up everytime i open my mouth basically unless I attack the enemy.
CYMRO 04-11-06, 03:44 PM	Most of the party speaks elven, and the DM is letting this bozo get away with being a jerk to you?? Demand the DM do something or walk. Life is too short to put up with this sort of behavior at the gaming table.
DMaster42 04-11-06, 04:55 PM	Most of the party speaks elven, and the DM is letting this bozo get away with being a jerk to you?? Demand the DM do something or walk. Life is too short to put up with this sort of behavior at the gaming table. I've tried to speak with the DM about it, and he does try to stop it (a little), but it doesn't seem to work very well.
kelvinaw273 04-11-06, 05:11 PM	I've tried to speak with the DM about it, and he does try to stop it (a little), but it doesn't seem to work very well. Explain to the DM that you will take all his comments as being in character and he is likely to discover that old question spell-casters must answer when right next to people they offend: Can you cast a spell through a mouthful of broken teeth? After all, you are a monk, nobody is armed and if he is stood right in front of you, he is not going to get much time to cast. Either the DM stops him, or he suffers.
Tristan 04-11-06, 05:23 PM	If the player is telling you to shut up because no one can understand you, and he's doing it in character, then logically, you shouldn't be able to understand him either. Thus, his unreasonable demands are safe to ignore: you don't know that he's telling you to shut up. That said, you might want to consider finding ways to nonverbally communicate with the players. Either that, or spend a few skill points to learn Common. If you want to yell at someone, babble gibberish, or do your best Tazmanian Devil impression. They'll get the point. I would PAY to see an elf speaking like Taz
DMaster42 04-11-06, 06:50 PM	I would PAY to see an elf speaking like Taz Lol so would I.
CYMRO 04-11-06, 08:24 PM	I've tried to speak with the DM about it, and he does try to stop it (a little), but it doesn't seem to work very well. Tell the DM it then must be the jerk or you. Walk if he won't toss the bozo. D&D is meant to be fun, so why continue in a game that is no longer fun?
DracoPhoenix 04-12-06, 04:10 AM	The only options then appear to be: 1)That this is a dungeon crawl, not RP game. Ie you go in, you kill, you loot. rinse & repeat. In which case, any substantial RP is going to be frowned upon. (splat v story) 2)the elf player is friends with the dm, but doesn't really like you - in which case it's deal or move on. (the spare seat) 3)the other elf is annoyed because he's not the only one who isn't dependent on weapons and as such, not disadvantaged like the rest of the group "should" be. (ego denied) (It may be worth finding out if the elf had anything to do with the no weapon rule as magic wielders are the least affected by this sort of thing - excepting the monk :) ) or any combination of the above Edit Of course you could be really petty and effectively remove yourself from the game - see if you can take a vow of silence feat, then make a couple of standard action cards and pass them to the dm when he asks what you do. Don't speak at all during the game session (except when they try the line "who wants X?") IF you find yourself becomming more and more distant from the rest of the game and no one really cares / notice, take a book and read when it's not your turn, make it look like because you cant speak to anyone, you can't understand them either - so act on your own initiative. move on ahead when they decide to re-group/rest, come back with friends :)
Kolakuba 04-12-06, 04:56 AM	Yes I did know before I picked to be a Monk. I don't know when we'll get weapons. The DM says that its illegal for anyone but nobles to carrying weapons. We may never get them. He seemed to think it would be interesting to have a campaign where the PCs didnt have any weapons and only the most armors. I can handle only being able to speak Elven, but I don't think it's right for this player to ridicule me out of game and character for it. As has been stated this mainly penalizes fighters, ranger, rogues, paladins and barbarians. What is the drawback for a sorcerer? Is he blind so that he can't use rays or other weaponlike spell? What about the cleric? Is he only allowed to cast spells during certain times of the day in order to be balanced with the other nerfed party members? I can understand the concept of a class-based society where only the nobles are allowed to bear weapons, this has applied to alot of RL societies as well. But if this causes disharmony and tension in the group then he should probably re-evaluate wether this is contributing to the players' enjoyment or ruining it. The player who asks you to shut up all the time, seems like a bully. If you guys are over 15, he's probably a sociopath and in need of help, because no sane person treats other people that way. If you're under fifteen it's still fair to just call him a bully. In either case, he doesn't belong in a gaming environment, and should probably consider another hobby where he doesn't have to relate to other people. The only advice I can give is that you should talk to your DM about the situation and expect him to deal with the matter in a mature manner. If he doesn't, you should probably quit your group. That's not an advice I like to give, but people don't come to the gaming-table to be harassed by psychos, and you shouldn't put up with that kind of treatment either.
DMaster42 04-12-06, 06:41 AM	Edit Of course you could be really petty and effectively remove yourself from the game - see if you can take a vow of silence feat, then make a couple of standard action cards and pass them to the dm when he asks what you do. Don't speak at all during the game session (except when they try the line "who wants X?") IF you find yourself becomming more and more distant from the rest of the game and no one really cares / notice, take a book and read when it's not your turn, make it look like because you cant speak to anyone, you can't understand them either - so act on your own initiative. move on ahead when they decide to re-group/rest, come back with friends :) I think I might do that. It even makes some sense.
ProfWhy 04-12-06, 06:55 AM	Explain to the DM that you will take all his comments as being in character and he is likely to discover that old question spell-casters must answer when right next to people they offend: Can you cast a spell through a mouthful of broken teeth? After all, you are a monk, nobody is armed and if he is stood right in front of you, he is not going to get much time to cast. Either the DM stops him, or he suffers. Personally, I kinda like this idea... :evillaugh I second the notion -- next time the other elf tells you to shut up, roleplay that your character has finally had it with him, and beat the ever-lovin' snot out o' him! Afterward, take your character sheet, hand it politely to the DM, and find another game that's more respectful to you, both as a person and as a role-player...
DIESCUMDIE 04-12-06, 07:52 AM	After reading your posts it seems to me that the whole party is picking on you. (Possibly you are annoying to them in some way) Leave. If you feel like it vent at them before hand. You are being verbally bullied and d'n'd is being used as a cover. Its a common situation.
Ut-Napishtim 04-12-06, 09:01 AM	Dude, you need to find another group. If a player acted like that at my table he'd be out of the game. The DM is weak willed, has no control over the table, stupid house rules, and another player is belligerent and unruly. As was said, life's too short. Since you've already talked to the DM about this he should understand. He's teaching this n00b bad habits that he'll carry into other people's games, and that is a disservice to DM's everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if other players followed you out of the game, leaving that DM and player to reflect on why everyone got fed up with their asshattery. :twocents:
danielinthewolvesden 04-12-06, 12:36 PM	It's a stupid campaign, with a cruddy DM, and rude, immature players. Why are you still there?
DMaster42 04-12-06, 05:03 PM	Personally, I kinda like this idea... :evillaugh I second the notion -- next time the other elf tells you to shut up, roleplay that your character has finally had it with him, and beat the ever-lovin' snot out o' him! Afterward, take your character sheet, hand it politely to the DM, and find another game that's more respectful to you, both as a person and as a role-player... I already did this with the dwarf in a way. I shaved his beard... :heehee :fight!: He made one two many insulting jokes about my character and wood.