Have problems with DM - how to approach him about them.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Have problems with DM - how to approach him about them.... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gregm
06-01-05, 08:32 AM In my last session playing DND some major flaws in my DM's game were unveiled that have annoyed both me and my brother.

One is that we have walked into a magic loving island. Thats all well and good. But the NPC's there can do godly things without even trying. For example, one made my brothers character stop speaking without even trying. Another managed to see through my alter self and dispel it all in a blink of an eye. No way of preventing it.

Another is the railroading. We defeated a cult of an evil lord who are after this gem that can destroy the world if united with an amulet in an attempt to try and control all dragons. So now our party in an attempt to stop getting hunted by these guys are helping their rivals (the good guys) to get the gem first. The probel is the leader said 'you either accept the quest or I will kill you now'. - DOesn't really give too much of an option.

And then of course, the most annoying thing, the wonderful use of Deus Ex Machina (sp). Our party had just faced a horrific fight (with magical abilities weakened to boot) against whole groups of people who were level 6 at lowest along with level 7's and 8's. Our party is levels 6, 6 and 4.
After finally getting through this horde of guys (there were 20 in total in a straight fight). Then these guys from the cult appeared out of nowhere, mutilated the guy who was holding the gem and then disappeared, and in this time we could do nothing to stop them. This made me and my bro furious (not sure about the other party member).

This is obviously a blatant attempt by the DM to force us to hunt down these guys (cos the world is gonna end if we don't).

Sub note: we were also sent on a world saving quest with no magical weapons, armour or items with the good guys charging us for scroll and potions. Also my DM refused to let me have a scroll of shatter because it would mean that we were, and I quote 'too prepared'.

So what do we do in response to all this bs for the DM? How to approch him?
snowlynx
06-01-05, 08:54 AM Tell him you don't believe your characters are ready for a world-saving quest, and don't understand why your characters were sent so unprepared when there are many other (higher-level) individuals out there. That you understand if he wants to send you on a great and wonderful quest, yet your characters are just starting out and they would rather being doing less epic things.

Try to tell him this nicely, of course, and then ask if maybe he can give you some stuff to do inbetween that isn't so world shattering.
Thoronmir
06-01-05, 10:03 AM Yeah, this is an issue that ought to be resolved before any campaign begins. I don't understand why so few DMs take the opportunity to review their plans with the players beforehand. I'm not suggesting that the DM spill the beans as to plot details or possible encounters. But, he can at least let the players know that he wants to run a "Ticking Clock to Save the World" campaign that will require the PCs to undertake an epic quest. There's no shame in letting the players know what type of campaign the DM wants to run ... and the players are free to let the DM know they'd prefer a different premise for the campaign. Or they can all agree to postpone the “Rescue the Planet” escapade until after the PCs have enough levels under their belts. My point is that everyone involved ought to have a say as to the nature of the game they all agree to play. And it’s possible that the players and the DM fail to reach a consensus, and that’s okay too. Someone else can DM or they can all find different people with whom to play.

On rare occasions, I’m more than willing to stretch the rules for dramatic license, but only if ignoring the RAW does not affect the PCs. For example, if the plot of the adventure I’m running requires that one NPC kill another, I would most likely dispense with things like Attack and Damage Rolls and simply describe how the Evil NPC thrusts his blade through the victim’s chest. I have, for the sake of the story, declared that a major NPC was drugged into an comatose slumber from which even magical healing could not revive him (it was critical to the plot that this NPC be “out of action” for a brief period of time). But never have I used such literary license against the PCs. Everything and anything that affects the PCs has its roots in the RAW. To do otherwise usurps the players’ ability to fully interact with the world I’ve created. How tedious and dissatisfying it is when players get to act only when allowed by the DM.

The OP’s DM needs to learn both of the lessons discussed above. He needs to embrace the fact that involving the players in determining the scope of the campaign makes the game more fun for everyone and that the most imaginative campaign concept is for naught if the players aren’t interested in playing it. He also needs to learn when it’s appropriate to exercise the DM’s “privilege” for storytelling … and that it’s never appropriate to do so in any manner that restricts the players’ ability to control the PCs’ actions.
Draco Strang
06-01-05, 10:18 AM Thoronmir pretty much hit what I had to say, but lemme give it a shot:

Gregm, have a talk with your DM about the PCs being the stars of the campaign. They rightly should be, as I'm sure you know.

However, no one said they had to appear on Broadway. Everyone starts small. Try a highschool production, or a talent show. By that, I mean that maybe you should ask your DM to pit you against angry bandits, very young dragons, and other challenged appropriate to your party. Stuff that you can do yourself.

There's no shame in the level 6 guy turning down a chance to save the world. After all, he's not even qualified for greater weapon specialization yet. How do you expect him to defeat an entire cult? Gotta start on the groundfloor and work your way up.

It's worth a shot, anyway.
StevenO
06-01-05, 02:55 PM It sounds like you have a very inexperienced DM. First any thing you say needs to be done respectfully and in a manner that is most likely to get a possitive response. You may want to review the gameplay sections of the DMG with him and point out things that work and don't work in your game. After that suggest he look at some of the other sources for DM advice available including these boards and the companies web-page.

It is important not to be too hard on him. I may be wrong but many first time DMs try to do too much without first establishing how to actually run a successful game. If possible you may suggest a few one-shot adventures for practice (on both sides if needed) so that he can get a feel for running a game before starting a world saving campain.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gregm 06-01-05, 08:32 AM	In my last session playing DND some major flaws in my DM's game were unveiled that have annoyed both me and my brother. One is that we have walked into a magic loving island. Thats all well and good. But the NPC's there can do godly things without even trying. For example, one made my brothers character stop speaking without even trying. Another managed to see through my alter self and dispel it all in a blink of an eye. No way of preventing it. Another is the railroading. We defeated a cult of an evil lord who are after this gem that can destroy the world if united with an amulet in an attempt to try and control all dragons. So now our party in an attempt to stop getting hunted by these guys are helping their rivals (the good guys) to get the gem first. The probel is the leader said 'you either accept the quest or I will kill you now'. - DOesn't really give too much of an option. And then of course, the most annoying thing, the wonderful use of Deus Ex Machina (sp). Our party had just faced a horrific fight (with magical abilities weakened to boot) against whole groups of people who were level 6 at lowest along with level 7's and 8's. Our party is levels 6, 6 and 4. After finally getting through this horde of guys (there were 20 in total in a straight fight). Then these guys from the cult appeared out of nowhere, mutilated the guy who was holding the gem and then disappeared, and in this time we could do nothing to stop them. This made me and my bro furious (not sure about the other party member). This is obviously a blatant attempt by the DM to force us to hunt down these guys (cos the world is gonna end if we don't). Sub note: we were also sent on a world saving quest with no magical weapons, armour or items with the good guys charging us for scroll and potions. Also my DM refused to let me have a scroll of shatter because it would mean that we were, and I quote 'too prepared'. So what do we do in response to all this bs for the DM? How to approch him?
snowlynx 06-01-05, 08:54 AM	Tell him you don't believe your characters are ready for a world-saving quest, and don't understand why your characters were sent so unprepared when there are many other (higher-level) individuals out there. That you understand if he wants to send you on a great and wonderful quest, yet your characters are just starting out and they would rather being doing less epic things. Try to tell him this nicely, of course, and then ask if maybe he can give you some stuff to do inbetween that isn't so world shattering.
Thoronmir 06-01-05, 10:03 AM	Yeah, this is an issue that ought to be resolved before any campaign begins. I don't understand why so few DMs take the opportunity to review their plans with the players beforehand. I'm not suggesting that the DM spill the beans as to plot details or possible encounters. But, he can at least let the players know that he wants to run a "Ticking Clock to Save the World" campaign that will require the PCs to undertake an epic quest. There's no shame in letting the players know what type of campaign the DM wants to run ... and the players are free to let the DM know they'd prefer a different premise for the campaign. Or they can all agree to postpone the “Rescue the Planet” escapade until after the PCs have enough levels under their belts. My point is that everyone involved ought to have a say as to the nature of the game they all agree to play. And it’s possible that the players and the DM fail to reach a consensus, and that’s okay too. Someone else can DM or they can all find different people with whom to play. On rare occasions, I’m more than willing to stretch the rules for dramatic license, but only if ignoring the RAW does not affect the PCs. For example, if the plot of the adventure I’m running requires that one NPC kill another, I would most likely dispense with things like Attack and Damage Rolls and simply describe how the Evil NPC thrusts his blade through the victim’s chest. I have, for the sake of the story, declared that a major NPC was drugged into an comatose slumber from which even magical healing could not revive him (it was critical to the plot that this NPC be “out of action” for a brief period of time). But never have I used such literary license against the PCs. Everything and anything that affects the PCs has its roots in the RAW. To do otherwise usurps the players’ ability to fully interact with the world I’ve created. How tedious and dissatisfying it is when players get to act only when allowed by the DM. The OP’s DM needs to learn both of the lessons discussed above. He needs to embrace the fact that involving the players in determining the scope of the campaign makes the game more fun for everyone and that the most imaginative campaign concept is for naught if the players aren’t interested in playing it. He also needs to learn when it’s appropriate to exercise the DM’s “privilege” for storytelling … and that it’s never appropriate to do so in any manner that restricts the players’ ability to control the PCs’ actions.
Draco Strang 06-01-05, 10:18 AM	Thoronmir pretty much hit what I had to say, but lemme give it a shot: Gregm, have a talk with your DM about the PCs being the stars of the campaign. They rightly should be, as I'm sure you know. However, no one said they had to appear on Broadway. Everyone starts small. Try a highschool production, or a talent show. By that, I mean that maybe you should ask your DM to pit you against angry bandits, very young dragons, and other challenged appropriate to your party. Stuff that you can do yourself. There's no shame in the level 6 guy turning down a chance to save the world. After all, he's not even qualified for greater weapon specialization yet. How do you expect him to defeat an entire cult? Gotta start on the groundfloor and work your way up. It's worth a shot, anyway.
StevenO 06-01-05, 02:55 PM	It sounds like you have a very inexperienced DM. First any thing you say needs to be done respectfully and in a manner that is most likely to get a possitive response. You may want to review the gameplay sections of the DMG with him and point out things that work and don't work in your game. After that suggest he look at some of the other sources for DM advice available including these boards and the companies web-page. It is important not to be too hard on him. I may be wrong but many first time DMs try to do too much without first establishing how to actually run a successful game. If possible you may suggest a few one-shot adventures for practice (on both sides if needed) so that he can get a feel for running a game before starting a world saving campain.