Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pokemaniacbill 08-19-06, 02:49 AM	Hi guys. It's been awhile... I've got my books cracked open, stats all rolled for a high-powered (For generation, anyway. DM says he's not expecting us to beat some of the monsters we fight) campaign. I'm getting back in the fray and I've been asked as a favor to create a healer, or at least a character who can heal as a secondary function. 15 16 18 13 17 14 To be placed in any order. A little bit of info about the campaign: It focuses on recovering lost arcana. Within the last... let's say year or so because I'm not sure on dates, arcane knowledge is being rediscovered. Spontaneous casters can't be used unless your race has some spontaneous casting ability to begin with (I can't name any off the top of my head), and things like Warmages which require extensive training at academies are strictly forbidden. Wizards and prepared spellcasters are fine. Divine spellcasters are allowed as per the norm. We start at ECL 7, no restrictions on any templates or races. All WOTC books are considered fair game so long as they stay within the campaign's storyline (No Arcane Training feat or anything stupid like that): INCLUDING some UA stuff. Traits and Flaws are fine, bloodlines are fine, we're allowed to use Spelltouched Feats... even the elemental variant races. Paragon Races are allowed, which is my main point for planning on possinly using human. If there's no 3.5 equivelant, then we can use the 3.0. I'm, uh, honestly a little stuck and on a deadline since it starts tomorrow. There are three candidates I've got for races, all of which have great points in them, but I was hoping for some help... I'm not great at Lawful characters (There was an incident with a Paladin. I was praised, but it involved a tanglefoot bag), and I was hoping you guys could help me fill this gap so I could enjoy the Game again. Lumi is a race in the MMIII, with a LA of 2 and an HD of 2. They're outsiders, get a +2 Strength, +4 Con, +4 Wisdom, -2 Dex. They get some spell-like abilities, like Cure Light 3x per day and Light at will. They also get some other nice immunities, like immunites to death magics and the like. I'm loathe to try it due to RP purposes. Their MO is that they wish to exterminate those who are dishonest, liars... and tend to do so a bit indiscriminately. To play them without messing the firk ding blast up I'd have to play an 'oddball' celestial type and I'm not fond of that at ALL. Warforge. Ever played KOTORII with HK47? Kinda like that, but with a less evil bent and more a 'I want to uncover what happened to the civilization I was in. My memory... I... need to know what happened' type of character. I'm okay with having my character's inception delayed, too. Human. Obvious reasons. Easy for me to roleplay. I apologise for the long post, and I hope you can help a stupid poster.
Righter8 08-19-06, 04:55 AM	IMO, and a lot of people are going to say what I'm going to tell you is stupid/sux/lame/a waste, if you are concerned with actual healing ability, go with a Healer from the Miniatures Handbook. The pros: Healer gets more castings per day, which means more HP, than a cleric. Good fort and will saves. When a healer casts a cure spell that cures hp damage, they add their charisma mod to the amount of damage healed. Eventually, can remove Paralysis, Disease, Fear & Poison once per day or more. You get one of these every level od so after 3rd. Cons: Low AC. Can only wear light, non-metallic armor Only has simple weapon prof. BAB progression of a wizard. No domain stuff. Can not turn undead. Not alot of spells to choose from, but to me that makes it easier. Some people will tell you this class sucks because you can't get into Melee and rip it up like a cleric can. But, neither can a wizard. Some will say that your lack of buffs will impair your party's ability to survive encounters. But you can heal 3 times the damage a cleric of you level can (ok I can't say exactly how much but its a lot more). I'm playing this in my current game with the following feats: Spontaneous healer (allows casting cure spell spontaneously like a cleric) Augment healing (adds +2 per level of spell to heals) Brew potion (this is great. each party member gladly chips in to have a few Cure light wounds potions that heal 1d8+10.) I stay out of direct melee using a crossbow or Longspear and I always stay as close to a melee player as possible. This provides protection for me and healing for them. Hope this helps.
silvergamgee 08-19-06, 11:37 AM	A high wisdom cleric with the healing domain can do a lot of healing and is capable of fighting pretty decently too if pressed. Otherwise if you want a bigger badder cleric that doesn't have the healing domain, you can always take spontanious domain casting to further beef up your healing.
Rafe_113 08-19-06, 12:13 PM	I agree with Righter8. The Healer is where it's at for a PC that is there to simply keep everyone else alive and kicking. The healer is more or less a DnD ambulance without the flashing lights and noisy sirene. I played one a while back in a campaign. As long as you stay behind your melee line, and in front of (but not in the way of) your spell-casters and archers, you don't have to worry about very much. Plus the brew potions feat can be a life saver in a pinch. The only drawback to playing a healer vs a cleric, and it's the biggest one I found, is the fact that you pretty much suck at combat. I had a very good DM at the time, and he recognized that. So, he threw in a "home-grown" intelligent staff. It bolstered my healing abilities, plus could cast fireball twice a day and flamestrike once per day. Not much, but it kept me invloved in the adventure since I wasn't always doing the same 'ole song and dance.
Pegasos989 08-19-06, 01:09 PM	I'm playing this in my current game with the following feats: Spontaneous healer (allows casting cure spell spontaneously like a cleric) Augment healing (adds +2 per level of spell to heals) Brew potion (this is great. each party member gladly chips in to have a few Cure light wounds potions that heal 1d8+10.) In potions your CHA modifier or augment healing does not matter. It will only heal 1d8+5 still. I am not saying it would be overpowered to make them matter in this case but by the rules they do not. Same way that when you cast a summoning spell from scroll, you don't automatically add augment summoning to the monster even though the creator might have had the feat. Also, you can't get higher save DC scrolls by buying them from someone with spell focus (evocation), for example. When you create a magic item (be it scroll, potion, whatever) the only things that will be there are the casterlevel and spell. No feats are "saved" in scrolls.
utilitarian 08-19-06, 01:20 PM	Healer is a good choice but then again, a cleric with the healing domain works almost as well and does a lot of other stuff too sooooo..... Try cleric/radiant servant of pelor (Complete Divine). Very healery combo without sacrificing your cleric kapow
Feriin 08-19-06, 01:55 PM	In potions your CHA modifier or augment healing does not matter. It will only heal 1d8+5 still. Technically the potion would heal 1d8+1. Potions,Wands, and Scrolls ALL cast spells at the LOWWEST possible level and realitive stat to cast said spell. Example Cure light wounds.. 1) Can be cast by a 1st level cleric. 2) Requires an 11 Wisdom to cast it since its a first level spell. This is by the rules as written. Personally I think the potions,wands,scrolls should function as the spell caster who created them, Including all that spell casters extra abilities to enhance the spell. I play my games in this manner.
danielinthewolvesden 08-19-06, 02:46 PM	A MH Healer would be great. Best healer in the game, but no offensive capability. Halflings or Gnomes make good Healers. But the "recovering lost arcana" bit makes me think "cloistered cleric" I think it is from UA- cleric with less offensive skills but Bardic Lore. Human. Bard would be great, too, but you would have to be the right race, so Aasimar. 2La is very dangerous. You would be two HD under the rest of the party, which can mean death. Later, when the bad guys cast Blasphemy, you are in trouble. And with two racial HD, you will be a cruddy spellcaster. If you take that race, you will only be a 3rd level Cleric (for example). So skip the Lumi.
Righter8 08-19-06, 03:58 PM	In potions your CHA modifier or augment healing does not matter. It will only heal 1d8+5 still. I am not saying it would be overpowered to make them matter in this case but by the rules they do not. Same way that when you cast a summoning spell from scroll, you don't automatically add augment summoning to the monster even though the creator might have had the feat. Also, you can't get higher save DC scrolls by buying them from someone with spell focus (evocation), for example. When you create a magic item (be it scroll, potion, whatever) the only things that will be there are the casterlevel and spell. No feats are "saved" in scrolls. Technically the potion would heal 1d8+1. Potions,Wands, and Scrolls ALL cast spells at the LOWWEST possible level and realitive stat to cast said spell. Example Cure light wounds.. 1) Can be cast by a 1st level cleric. 2) Requires an 11 Wisdom to cast it since its a first level spell. This is by the rules as written. Okay, here is a quote from page 282 and 283 of the DMG regarding using Metamagic feats to increase made item such as wands, potions and scrolls. Note also that it says you can make items at a lower caster level than your own, which to me means you can indeed make a cure light potion as a 5th level caster as if you had cast that spell.: "While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal. For example, a caster could heighten a spells’ level to increase its effectiveness, or quicken a spell to allow it to be used as a free action, placing it within an item at the higher metamagic level." Please, show me I am wrong. Don't just spout out something, show me where to find something that says my CHA isn't added in when I make a potion. Or that Augment Healing can't be used.
Feriin 08-19-06, 08:08 PM	Okay, here is a quote from page 282 and 283 of the DMG regarding using Metamagic feats to increase made item such as wands, potions and scrolls. Note also that it says you can make items at a lower caster level than your own, which to me means you can indeed make a cure light potion as a 5th level caster as if you had cast that spell.: "While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal. For example, a caster could heighten a spells’ level to increase its effectiveness, or quicken a spell to allow it to be used as a free action, placing it within an item at the higher metamagic level." Please, show me I am wrong. Don't just spout out something, show me where to find something that says my CHA isn't added in when I make a potion. Or that Augment Healing can't be used. I am not sure why you picked my post to quote. I wasn't attempting to point a flaw out in what you said, it was the person I quoted that I was attempting this with. I also find it interesting that you intentionally left out the part of my post where I said, "Personally I think the potions,wands,scrolls should function as the spell caster who created them, Including all that spell casters extra abilities to enhance the spell. I play my games in this manner." Oh well, However I stand by what I said. I admit I sould have stated an exception to specify that player made items whose caster level and relative stat modifier are known.
Righter8 08-19-06, 09:57 PM	I am sorry this has gotten off topic. Feriin, what I was quoting you for was the phrase "Technically the potion would heal 1d8+1. Potions,Wands, and Scrolls ALL cast spells at the LOWWEST possible level and realitive stat to cast said spell." I took this to mean that if a 10th level cleric brewed a potion of cure light wounds, it would HAVE to be able to cure only 1d8+1. I apologize if I misunderstood your statement.
IceFractal 08-20-06, 03:25 AM	A Cleric of Boccob (or an equivalent deity) would fit in well with the "rediscovering arcana" theme, and could get some use out of arcane stuff you find. Clerics are pretty versatile, you can be primarily a healer, a tank, or a utility guy, depending on what you prepare each day. As for healing, pretty much any non-evil Cleric is a capable healer - just be sure to carry a wand for use out of combat, so you don't have to worry about running out of spells. I recommend a wand of Lesser Vigor for this purpose - at 11 hp a charge, it's good value for the cost. And make sure the party contributes equally toward healing wands - everyone gets the benefit from them. Panacea is a good spell to have prepared or on a scroll, as it cures pretty much every minor condition. For race - I wouldn't recommend a Lumi unless you're really set on them for roleplaying reasons - the bonuses are not worth the ECL (in general, casters should avoid LA and racial HD like the plague). Warforged sounds like a good choice though. Just make sure to prepare Vigor type spells, as Cure spells will only be 1/2 strength on you. Human always works, but I'm not so sure about Human Paragon - that lost CL will hurt. Point of interest - if you're a Warforged, then Alter Self (not a Cleric spell, but if you have the magic domain you can use wands of it) will allow you to assume the forms of other constructs. Now I'm not sure how many useful low HD constructs there are, but it could be fun (animated object would be good for spying on people).
TJMHPH 08-20-06, 04:47 AM	I would reccomend a human cleric. pick your diety from dieties and demigods(for spice). for your feats IMPROVED INT 1ST COMBAT CASTING 1ST POINT BLANK SHOT 3RD PRECISE SHOT 6TH FOR ORDER OF STATS str 13 dex 14 con 18 int 16 wis 17+1 4th 18 cha 15 thats my 5 sp. :D
Pegasos989 08-20-06, 05:08 AM	Okay, here is a quote from page 282 and 283 of the DMG regarding using Metamagic feats to increase made item such as wands, potions and scrolls. Note also that it says you can make items at a lower caster level than your own, which to me means you can indeed make a cure light potion as a 5th level caster as if you had cast that spell.: "While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal. For example, a caster could heighten a spells’ level to increase its effectiveness, or quicken a spell to allow it to be used as a free action, placing it within an item at the higher metamagic level." Please, show me I am wrong. Don't just spout out something, show me where to find something that says my CHA isn't added in when I make a potion. Or that Augment Healing can't be used. The fact that applies to feats AND ability scores is that everywhere where you find text about magic items, it specifically says that the casterlevel is applied to the item but says nothing about anything else at all, which it propably would if anything else would be. Even if you were correct, do you really want to create potions of CLW? If potion of CLW created at 5th CL (to get +5 from CL, which you obiovsly included in +10) will heal 1d8+10, average 14,5 and cost 250gp (well, 125 to create) as potion price is CL*spell level*50. A potion of cure moderate wounds at CL 3 would heal 2d8+8, average 17, and cost 3*2*50, so 250 gp. So really, if your DM and you think it is okay for feats to affect magic items, I have nothing against that. Just saying that it is not covered by rules anywhere. And in that case, creating potions of CMW at CL 3 heal slightly more than CLW at CL 5, but cost the same to create. I would recommend you to do that instead.
Pegasos989 08-20-06, 05:10 AM	I would reccomend a human cleric. pick your diety from dieties and demigods(for spice). for your feats IMPROVED INT 1ST COMBAT CASTING 1ST POINT BLANK SHOT 3RD PRECISE SHOT 6TH FOR ORDER OF STATS str 13 dex 14 con 18 int 16 wis 17+1 4th 18 cha 15 thats my 5 sp. :D Yups, though if you have access to completes, I would recommend feat Zen Archery (wis mod instead of dex to ranged attacks) over improved initiative.
Rafe_113 08-21-06, 07:42 AM	We had a guy play a Warforged Artificer a while back. I was actually impressed with what he could do. While you won't be able to "cast" healing spells, you will be able to churn out wands and potions like a mobile factory. Not the best "healing" class per say, but you'd be just as combat-ready as a Cleric. Plus you can enchant weapons and cast small buffering spells on party members much like a cleric. Just dump skill points into use magic device and once you hit 5th or 6th lvl, you'll be able to heal pretty much anything a Cleric can, plus be able to stand up in combat.
Timeout 08-25-06, 10:09 AM	Cleric6/Radiant Servant of Pelor 10/Heirophant 4 Take Twin Spell, Divine Metamagic Twin Spell, Quicken, Divine Metamagic Quicken, and Augment Healing